The truth about driving distance

rollotomasi

This is an interesting article on driving distance from the R&A that is worth reading. This is based on real independent data.


http://www.randa.org/en/RandA/News/News/2013/May/Drive-Distance.aspx


In relation to the perceived march of technology ruining the game, some quotes stand out:

"Each season since 1996 we have been gathering driving distances from players with a range of handicaps and the average driving distance in 2012 for this cohort was 208 yards compared to 200 yards in 1996; an increase of 8 yards."

'We would expect the average driving distance for male golfers with handicaps between scratch and 5 to be 240 yards'.


The conclusion?: We don't drive the ball as far as we think we do

FixdePitchmark

rollotomasi wrote: »

This is an interesting article on driving distance from the R&A that is worth reading. This is based on real independent data.


http://www.randa.org/en/RandA/News/News/2013/May/Drive-Distance.aspx


In relation to the perceived march of technology ruining the game, some quotes stand out:

"Each season since 1996 we have been gathering driving distances from players with a range of handicaps and the average driving distance in 2012 for this cohort was 208 yards compared to 200 yards in 1996; an increase of 8 yards."

'We would expect the average driving distance for male golfers with handicaps between scratch and 5 to be 240 yards'.


The conclusion?: We don't drive the ball as far as we think we do

Here we go.

I don't think anybody has ever argued about averages on here. Averages are averages.

The debate is always about somebody coming on and saying I know a lad who hits it over 280 yards most of the time. Then somebody says but the average is x.

I'm sorry to say that in the context of lads who hit the ball long - the average debate is just bad maths in my opinion.

That average in the 0 to 5 is totally irrelevant to some of the golfers in that sample - I was at the Irish amateur last year and lads are hitting irons that distance.

So - averages have certain value , but the distribution is significant.

Yes lads think they hit it miles and the bravado is one of the biggest obstacles to improvement for some - but there are lads who it it 280 yards + - I've seen it.

Seve OB

I can and have hit the ball over 300 in the right conditions. I would have thought I would normally hit it about 275 as an average.

---

not always straight I might add!

Anyway, I got myself a Garmin which you can record your shots on. Interesting to see, my average driver is coming in at 260, so I was way over estimating my average. But hey, I'm still better than average for a golfer playing between scratch and 5!

Or am I really? I'm off 13. So maybe the guy off 4 hits it down the middle all the time while I'm playing a recovery shot from heavy rough just to get the ball back in play.

Point is, distance (average or otherwise) means nothing in this game when it boils down to it, position is key.

mike12

I would be a big hitter have only played with a couple of low guys that would hit it by me on a regular basis. My mate plays off 3 and he hits it much the same distance. I laugh when we play with other groups and we get oh we would love to drive it 300 yards like you instead of the 250 i am getting.
My average drive is around 270 and IMHO 250 is a big hit. If we look at most par 4's we play not many are over 400 yards so all the guys who think they are hitting it 250 should be hitting in a 8/9 iron for a second on a 400 yards par 4 not the 5/6 iron they are using.

PARlance

mike12 wrote: »

I would be a big hitter have only played with a couple of low guys that would hit it by me on a regular basis. My mate plays off 3 and he hits it much the same distance. I laugh when we play with other groups and we get oh we would love to drive it 300 yards like you instead of the 250 i am getting.
My average drive is around 270 and IMHO 250 is a big hit. If we look at most par 4's we play not many are over 400 yards so all the guys who think they are hitting it 250 should be hitting in a 8/9 iron for a second on a 400 yards par 4 not the 5/6 iron they are using.

Ah no, they're big hitters with the driver they just lose distance with the irons

I would say I'm slightly bigger (blush) than average compared to guys I'd play with in the club comps, and I'd be very surprised if I averaged 250 at all.

dan_ep82

I took it up in September and my average drive ( which is usually a bad drive I might add) is 240 with roll and a slice/big fade.

For two weeks I could play a really good draw and was getting 260-275 roll out with ease and a high of 290. Since I've lost the draw shape , slowly working it back, but for position/accuracy, not distance as it was when I started playing the draw.

It was great to get the distance but when I slice its not the lack of distance that effects my score,its where I land.

I'd love to see the same numbers broken up by age group. I know there's some older big hitters but I'd imagine most are below 50 years old.

spacecoyote

The reality is that these arguments always come down to most guys not thinking about their drives from an average perspective & more from a "i once hit a monster so that's how far I hit my drives" perspective.

I don't know what my average is being honest. Its not as long as PARlance, I know that much, I'd say probably around the 230 mark at a guess based on the club's I generally hit my approach with.

But given the general windy conditions in my own place its next to impossible to get a realistic number. On the back 9 there are a number of 400 yrd par 4s, when downwind I've gotten there in drives & 9 irons, when into the breeze could be drive & 3wood to have a chance. Would really have to spend some time in a range/bay environment with technology to get a realistic average.

As fix says there are guys out there that are averaging 280, which conversely means there are guys hitting the ball on average 150 yrds, which there definitely are. Age profile definitely plays a factor in these numbers.

ShriekingSheet

Dunno bout you shrimps but I hit it milz

SnowDrifts

For those of us with GPS... you probably already found out you were not as long as you thought (awaits sexual innuendo ) but for others who want to get an idea - try using the ruler tool on Google Earth. It is surprisingly accurate.

You obviously need a clear image of your course and then just measure to where you would normally drive on each hole...... you might find some surprising results!

dan_ep82

SnowDrifts wrote: »

For those of us with GPS... you probably already found out you were not as long as you thought (awaits sexual innuendo ) but for others who want to get an idea - try using the ruler tool on Google Earth. It is surprisingly accurate.

You obviously need a clear image of your course and then just measure to where you would normally drive on each hole...... you might find some surprising results!

I thought I was an average of 260 until I used swingbyswing app on my phone, its pretty accurate although the S1 Garmin is better. Bit of an ego killer but really all you have to do is play with someone who hits it long and its pretty obvious

PARlance

Any high or new golfer averaging 250+ is a very consistant golfer (that defies his status) and an incredibly powerful golfer.

Zach Johnson averages 275, he doesn't do hooks, pulls, duffs, tops or gets under the ball. To get within 25 yards of a Tour Pro is something on every single one of your drives.
He also plays in conditions, climates and has equipment that would add 10% to his stats over Ireland.
So anyone saying they are 250+ is saying they'd be toe to toe with Zach in the monthly medal.... Maybe!

I don't think its a case of bravado when most come on and give that as an average. I just think its a case that most golfers take there average as the average of their "good drives".

For a new or high golfer taking 10 drives a round, I think it's being nice to say that only 2 of them would be poor drives. (I'm a high HC btw)
A duff of 50 and a hook of 150 and you would need to absolutely hammer the ball 270 yards on your remaining 8 drives to get a 250 average for the round.
Whereas, I could well believe an average of 250 for the best 5 or 6 drives

galwaylad14

I play my own home course 95% of the time and for that reason I don't really know what my average drive is length wise as I just know roughly the area where a decent drive should be on a given hole. But it would be a course of I suppose average length (around 6300 yards) and I'd nearly always have between a 8 iron and sand wedge left into the par 4's. So at a guess I'd say I drive it around 250 yards but I really couldn't be sure

DuckSlice

i used to think i would drive it about 240 yards, but in reality its probably closer to 210. at the end of the day its accuracy that matters. i would rather hit it 200 yards and hit it straight every time than stand over my tee shot and know im going to hit this about 250 yards no problem, but i have no idea where i will be taking my second shot from.

whizbang

This, to me is the most telling statistic:

The largest change over the 17 seasons has been the number of higher handicap golfers choosing to use drivers from the tee in our measurements. Back in the 1990s the percentage usage for the highest handicap group was 55% and this has risen to a figure in excess of 90% since around 2005, which is presumably associated with enhanced forgiveness. Using driver-only data the increase in driving distance from 1996 to 2012 is only 3 yards

So its really forgiveness that we are getting.. -does this mean i don't need to to confession on sunday?

Zardoz

Its fairly hard to measure ones average drive distance in this country .
If you took the same drive on a wet course on a cold day in January and the same drive 6 months later on a hot summers day with ground like iron there could be a difference of 100 yards !

GreeBo

When most of us talk about average drives I think we are taking the average of our good drives, the ones we measure on the GPS. We are totally ignoring the knock downs, the skied shots, snap hooks and slices...

The recorded averages should be for every shot that you hit with the driver...so an average of 250 means that you often hit it 270...but you equally often hit it 230.

Russman

GreeBo wrote: »

When most of us talk about average drives I think we are taking the average of our good drives, the ones we measure on the GPS. We are totally ignoring the knock downs, the skied shots, snap hooks and slices...

The recorded averages should be for every shot that you hit with the driver...so an average of 250 means that you often hit it 270...but you equally often hit it 230 180.

Fixed that for ya

The_Architect

In all honesty, the article is propaganda by the R&A in an effort to cover up that they've dropped the ball in relation to equipment advances.

Talking of the ball, there is no talk about the increased spin along with distance.

Seve OB

GreeBo wrote: »

When most of us talk about average drives I think we are taking the average of our good drives, the ones we measure on the GPS. We are totally ignoring the knock downs, the skied shots, snap hooks and slices...

The recorded averages should be for every shot that you hit with the driver...so an average of 250 means that you often hit it 270...but you equally often hit it 230.

i know what you mean but i don't however see the point in measuring a duff that you knocked down and it scuttles just past the ladies tee box.
but yea, all the other shots should be measured to give true averages. id be guilty of not measuring them all, but i probably recorded 50% of my drives

reax

A friend of mine was following Sergio Garcia when the Irish Open was in Fota Island a few years ago. He was pacing out his drives and while Sergio is no slouch on the PGA Tour, his drives in Fota averaged 265 yards. This would tell me in an Irish winter Sergio would only hit it about 245. I don't believe Irish amateurs think they hit it as far as Sergio!!

GreeBo

stevieob wrote: »

i know what you mean but i don't however see the point in measuring a duff that you knocked down and it scuttles just past the ladies tee box.
but yea, all the other shots should be measured to give true averages. id be guilty of not measuring them all, but i probably recorded 50% of my drives

I know what you mean, but I guess the only reason you measure them is because you still have to play it from the ladies tee!

Same ideas as you count all drives when calculating FIR, not just the ones you hit well...

Russman

reax wrote: »

A friend of mine was following Sergio Garcia when the Irish Open was in Fota Island a few years ago. He was pacing out his drives and while Sergio is no slouch on the PGA Tour, his drives in Fota averaged 265 yards. This would tell me in an Irish winter Sergio would only hit it about 245. I don't believe Irish amateurs think they hit it as far as Sergio!!

A lot of amateurs think they hit it as far as Sergio !

Its a funny one, we all know the PGA Tour averages are crazy long, but I was watching a tournament last year on TV, can't remember which one to be honest, maybe Riviera or Torrey Pines, or it could have been that one in Texas. Anyway they had a trackman or similar on one of the par 4 tee boxes and the numbers would pop up on screen after each drive and I was genuinely amazed at, ON THIS PARTICULAR HOLE, a lot the guys were only carrying it around 235-245 - granted they were getting 50 or 60 yards of run at least which was getting the final number up to the 290 mark, but its a bit of a reality check for us amateurs
What struck me as strange was that you see some par 3s at 220yds and they're hitting 6 irons ! Conditions obviously play a huge part so I'd say with our temperatures, there's not many amateurs hitting it as far a tour pros.

PARlance

Russman wrote: »

A lot of amateurs think they hit it as far as Sergio !

Its a funny one, we all know the PGA Tour averages are crazy long, but I was watching a tournament last year on TV, can't remember which one to be honest, maybe Riviera or Torrey Pines, or it could have been that one in Texas. Anyway they had a trackman or similar on one of the par 4 tee boxes and the numbers would pop up on screen after each drive and I was genuinely amazed at, ON THIS PARTICULAR HOLE, a lot the guys were only carrying it around 235-245 - granted they were getting 50 or 60 yards of run at least which was getting the final number up to the 290 mark, but its a bit of a reality check for us amateurs
What struck me as strange was that you see some par 3s at 220yds and they're hitting 6 irons ! Conditions obviously play a huge part so I'd say with our temperatures, there's not many amateurs hitting it as far a tour pros.

That's certainly a reality check... If we had fairways as firm as them we'd be adding an extra 50 yards run you say!!!!
New average on the way so.

Mr. Larson

I remember watching the Ryder Cup at Celtic Manor and on a cold, dank and wet morning, which is often the conditions we play in, some of the bigger hitters like Westwood etc. were only hitting it about 250 off the 1st tee, which is quite the dig in those conditions to be fair. I have found the differences in yardages between big hitting amateurs and us mere mortals is quite wide. At a guess, in moderate conditions teens/early 20's at sea level I could probably carry a drive about 230ish. 240 or anything over that would be pretty well struck or helping wind - I talk in terms of carry because there are too many variables to include the total distance in my opinion. The biggest hitter I have played with would probably carry his about 270 and at that he would be miles clear of everyone else I've played with, including scratch and plus. He doesn't hit it like that everytime obviously so his average could conceivably be as low as 230 or lower. I have never seen a top professional hitting a golf ball but we have all seen their numbers and I imagine they are on a different planet again.

alxmorgan

An interesting article on efficiency

http://www.golfwrx.com/168791/increase-your-driving-distance-by-becoming-more-efficient/

Russman

alxmorgan wrote: »

An interesting article on efficiency

http://www.golfwrx.com/168791/increase-your-driving-distance-by-becoming-more-efficient/

Very interesting article. He doesn't mention though that a lot of pros, incl Sergio IIRC, intentionally hit down on the ball a little with the driver as it helps them feel like they're "covering" it a bit better and helps with accuracy.

Lots for us amateurs to consider though, especially the 290yd merchants !:)

Milkers

Russman wrote: »

Very interesting article. He doesn't mention though that a lot of pros, incl Sergio IIRC, intentionally hit down on the ball a little with the driver as it helps them feel like they're "covering" it a bit better and helps with accuracy.

Lots for us amateurs to consider though, especially the 290yd merchants !:)

He specifically did mention Sergio, how he hits down, and how he is not actually that accurate!

Russman

Milkers wrote: »

He specifically did mention Sergio, how he hits down, and how he is not actually that accurate!

It was "intentionally" hitting down I was referring to. I read it that he was suggesting Sergio would be better served by hitting up on the ball.

GreeBo

Russman wrote: »

It was "intentionally" hitting down I was referring to. I read it that he was suggesting Sergio would be better served by hitting up on the ball.

Everyone will hit it further by hitting up on the ball, but a lot of pro's specifically hit down for control.
Into the wind hitting down with the driver really works.

Russman

GreeBo wrote: »

Everyone will hit it further by hitting up on the ball, but a lot of pro's specifically hit down for control.

Exactly

Dbu

reax wrote: »

A friend of mine was following Sergio Garcia when the Irish Open was in Fota Island a few years ago. He was pacing out his drives and while Sergio is no slouch on the PGA Tour, his drives in Fota averaged 265 yards. This would tell me in an Irish winter Sergio would only hit it about 245. I don't believe Irish amateurs think they hit it as far as Sergio!!

Think Sergio never graced us with his presence since 1999. Certainly dont remember him ever competing in Fota in either 01 or 02

newport2

GreeBo wrote: »

When most of us talk about average drives I think we are taking the average of our good drives, the ones we measure on the GPS. We are totally ignoring the knock downs, the skied shots, snap hooks and slices...

The recorded averages should be for every shot that you hit with the driver...so an average of 250 means that you often hit it 270...but you equally often hit it 230.

+1

And on top of that, the average driving distance on the pro tours are measured over 2 holes nominated per day, one with the wind for and one against. A lot of the pros may not be hitting a driver on one or both of those holes, so the average driving distance for them is not the average distance hit with a driver. It's the average they hit it off the tee on two particular holes - irregardless of what club they were using. So if someones stats on the PGA tour give them a driving distance of 275 yards, chances are they hit their average drive further than that.

SnowDrifts

Dbu wrote: »

Think Sergio never graced us with his presence since 1999. Certainly dont remember him ever competing in Fota in either 01 or 02

According to stats on the European Tour website, he defended his '99 title in 2000 and that was the last time he played in The Irish Open.

Russman

Maybe the AmEx WGC in Mount Juliet ?
He definitely played there, I walked 9 holes of the practice round watching him, Adam Scott & Lee Westwood play $50 per hole skins.

Kimbot

I used to hit monsters, mainly sliced with a few down the middle. Last year I only got one round in (shocking i know) up in Dunmurray springs, tried a new approach (Slowed my swing down a lot) and I was hitting all my drives down the middle, averaging about 220-230 with my drives but I felt good about it

moycullen14

SnowDrifts wrote: »

For those of us with GPS... you probably already found out you were not as long as you thought (awaits sexual innuendo ) but for others who want to get an idea - try using the ruler tool on Google Earth. It is surprisingly accurate.

You obviously need a clear image of your course and then just measure to where you would normally drive on each hole...... you might find some surprising results!

Just tried this. As you say, quite interesting. My very good drives (where I'd like to be and occasionally am) are about 225-230m. Poor hits are about 200m. So I'd say average (discounting anything > 2 standard deviations from the mean!) would be about 210-215m s=> 230-240 yds. I'd consider myself slightly shorter than average for a 9 handicapper. The longest hitter I would normally play with would be about 20-30m beyond me.

I guess that would mean I should hit a PW about 100m, which I do.

PARlance

moycullen14 wrote: »

Just tried this. As you say, quite interesting. My very good drives (where I'd like to be and occasionally am) are about 225-230m. Poor hits are about 200m. So I'd say average (discounting anything > 2 standard deviations from the mean!) would be about 210-215m s=> 230-240 yds. I'd consider myself slightly shorter than average for a 9 handicapper. The longest hitter I would normally play with would be about 20-30m beyond me.

I guess that would mean I should hit a PW about 100m, which I do.

Also did it at the weekend with Spacecoyote & Scuba... Funnily enough I only thought about doing it after bombing one
260 yards in total... Got 12 inches of roll...
But that was a fairly big hit on that hole, I've gotten 30 or so yards further in the summer but again, these are "best drives".

My average is 230-240yards at best on a round where I'm driving it well I'd say.

Nipped out to the practice holes today in my club! Drove a Par 4 for the second time ever. Tee forward, no GPS, prob 260 carry but again, it was one of the better ones.
Walked away with my bogey (tap in birdie)

rollotomasi

At one of the Boards outings, a survey on driving distance could be done for a laugh?

At one of the venues a straightish par 4 is picked where the distance from tee to flag can be lasered. After each golfer hits a drive, the distance to the flag is noted - it should give pretty accurate results to the drive length.

The results can be included on a sheet attached to the card?
The data can be crunched based on handicap etc.

Any takers?

spacecoyote

PARlance wrote: »

Also did it at the weekend with Spacecoyote & Scuba... Funnily enough I only thought about doing it after bombing one
260 yards in total... Got 12 inches of roll...
But that was a fairly big hit on that hole, I've gotten 30 or so yards further in the summer but again, these are "best drives".

My average is 230-240yards at best on a round where I'm driving it well I'd say.

Nipped out to the practice holes today in my club! Drove a Par 4 for the second time ever. Tee forward, no GPS, prob 260 carry but again, it was one of the better ones.
Walked away with my bogey (tap in birdie)

I can confirm said drive. The cheeky git came over to tell me specifically after it (i can only assume he was eyeing up his post already at that point)

You were definitely outcarrying the 2 of us, but I'd say the overall difference was fairly marginal when you accounted for the run out between all 3 of our drives on most holes. Those mcilroy high draws of yours don't get much roll out in the winter

I didn't take any measures myself on the day, I'd imagine my longest hit was on 13 when I drove to the corner of the turn of the fairway up into the breeze,or possibly on 18?

I think I hit 2 shortish drives all day really, on 14 when I hit down too sharply & skied the ball, I know I was left with 185 in on my 2nd & its not the longest hole & on 15 3wood mi**** at the trees right of the fairway which in a straight line would prob leave 220-230 to the green

You really can see the difference though with your angle of attack hitting up on every drive. It's great to see the improvement in consistencyof your drives compared to when we first played last year.

spacecoyote

rollotomasi wrote: »

At one of the Boards outings, a survey on driving distance could be done for a laugh?

At one of the venues a straightish par 4 is picked where the distance from tee to flag can be lasered. After each golfer hits a drive, the distance to the flag is noted - it should give pretty accurate results to the drive length.

The results can be included on a sheet attached to the card?
The data can be crunched based on handicap etc.

Any takers?

why not do it at all outings,give a bigger sample size, would be interesting to see!

Only catch is how do you get a laser to each group? Not sure anyone would want to leave one sitting on a tee box

Ciaranra

The truth is everybody drives it 250, All cant be wrong,;)

rollotomasi

spacecoyote wrote: »

why not do it at all outings,give a bigger sample size, would be interesting to see!

Only catch is how do you get a laser to each group? Not sure anyone would want to leave one sitting on a tee box

If there is no laser in the group, maybe a Gps measure is taken to the middle of the green and paced back to the flag - it can't be out by much.

Yes, the bigger the sample the better and some extra data could be got in addition to handicap, such as fade or draw shape, etc
It could be interesting...

SnowDrifts

spacecoyote wrote: »

why not do it at all outings,give a bigger sample size, would be interesting to see!

Only catch is how do you get a laser to each group? Not sure anyone would want to leave one sitting on a tee box

Think it would be just as handy to clock it on GPS. Most dedicated units have the feature to measure shots hit.

spacecoyote

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Think it would be just as handy to clock it on GPS. Most dedicated units have the feature to measure shots hit.

Yeah, think there is a "mark" button on my golf buddy, have never used it though

PARlance

@space, thanks and I think I did well to wait until Tuesday to post it

denishurley

SnowDrifts wrote: »

According to stats on the European Tour website, he defended his '99 title in 2000 and that was the last time he played in The Irish Open.

Yeah I remember him having trouble with Ballybunion alright!

charlieIRL

spacecoyote wrote: »

Yeah, think there is a "mark" button on my golf buddy, have never used it though

I have that on my sky caddie as well. Have used it to measure a few of my drives but never bothered checking averages yet!

DuckSlice

Really you should measure from tee to ball in a straight line to get a true distance on the drive!

GreeBo

etxp wrote: »

Really you should measure from tee to ball in a straight line to get a true distance on the drive!

Thats what GPS does...its not tracking you wandering over into the trees....it gets a straight line from where you hit "mark" to wherever you are now!

Neil Andblomee

Nearing the big 10k post there greenbo, what are the odds it'll be a in thread warning post????.

PARlance

Neil Andblomee wrote: »

Nearing the big 10k post there greenbo, what are the odds it'll be a in thread warning post????.

You never know, it could be a simple post clarifying that his username is Greebo as opposed to GreenBo....