Why is there something instead of nothing?

Evelyn Cusack · 08-01-2014 12:59pm #1

Surely it would make much more sense if nothing existed in the universe, that it was just a big void, or not even a void because there was nothing, just nothing.

But instead there is something, time and space and matter.

Why?

WilyCoyote · 08-01-2014 1:01pm

But sure, nothing is something

old hippy · 08-01-2014 1:01pm

This is going to break the internet, I tell you

Daqster · 08-01-2014 1:02pm

Where would the nothing be and wherever that is, what's on the other side of it?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 08-01-2014 1:03pm

Yes, nothing is something. Dark matter?

Zillah · 08-01-2014 1:04pm

How on Earth would nothing be more plausible than something? We have nothing to compare to, nothing to give context to our thoughts. The universe is fundamentally baffling. Ontology is pointless.

newirishman · 08-01-2014 1:05pm

Here's a good starting point to answer that question.

whatsername42 · 08-01-2014 1:05pm

Yeah - and if a higher celestial being created everything, then who created the higher celestial being? He couldn't have just been there all the time - something had to have created him, and then what created the something that created the celestial being ....and what happens if an unstoppable force meets an immovable object...does the world explode?...a bit like my head right now.....

WellThen? · 08-01-2014 1:06pm

Do you really think you are going to find the answer to that question on Boards.ie?

gobnaitolunacy · 08-01-2014 1:07pm

Nothing will come of nothing...

Zillah · 08-01-2014 1:07pm

Daqster wrote: »

Where would the nothing be?

Well, it wouldn't.

smcgiff · 08-01-2014 1:09pm

WellThen? wrote: »

Do you really think you are going to find the answer to that question on Boards.ie?

And in After Hours

bonzodog2 · 08-01-2014 1:10pm

How much nothing are we talking about here? Just a little bit, or a whole bunch? Are they paying rent? Do they have road frontage ?

SEPT 23 1989 · 08-01-2014 1:10pm

Its expanding into nothing

Muise... · 08-01-2014 1:10pm

Zillah wrote: »

How on Earth would nothing be more plausible than something? We have nothing to compare to, nothing to give context to our thoughts. The universe is fundamentally baffling. Ontology is pointless.

you're so geocentric!

ChippingSodbury · 08-01-2014 1:12pm

Can I have some of your mushrooms??:)

Of course, if there was nothing there wouldn't be any mushrooms either...

Daqster · 08-01-2014 1:13pm

Zillah wrote: »

Well, it wouldn't.

There can't be nothing without there being something.

The very fact that there could be 'nothing', means there first has to be 'something'.

As nothing itself can only exist in the context of there being something.

Tzardine · 08-01-2014 1:13pm

We are all in the matrix.

WilyCoyote · 08-01-2014 1:14pm

Daqster wrote: »

Where would the nothing be and wherever that is, what's on the other side of it?

Zillah wrote: »

Well, it wouldn't.

OK then. Let's say theoretically that nothing existed, then where would it exist?

Tzardine · 08-01-2014 1:15pm

WilyCoyote wrote: »

OK then. Let's say theoretically that nothing existed, then where would it exist?

Edit : Inside my bank account . I can confirm that Nothing does indeed exist in there

Zillah · 08-01-2014 1:19pm

Daqster wrote: »

As nothing itself can only happen in the context of there being something.

No, the nothing just isn't.

I'm sorry if that's difficult to get your head around but our language is not really designed for this. It's not a thing that isn't, is not a thing that was but then stopped...simply isn't. Never. There's no big empty space, there isn't darkness or borders or a sense of absence.

There just isn't anything. In the alternative conception of how the universe might not have been, of course. At least we can compare that to the universe existing as it does for us now.

It's all ridiculous, really. We can't even compare it usefully to our universe without the big bang - I can't say "before", either, because time started with the big bang. Put it this way, there was never a point in time in which the universe didn't exist, so it essentially has always existed. Everything outside that is nothing, which is to say that there is nothing outside of that.

We really need a better language for this topic.

Zillah · 08-01-2014 1:21pm

WilyCoyote wrote: »

OK then. Let's say theoretically that nothing existed, then where would it exist?

It doesn't.

biko · 08-01-2014 1:21pm

Because something is better than nothing.

And to prove it I created a Google Fight
www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=something&word2=nothing

Conall Cernach · 08-01-2014 1:22pm

Whoa! Did you ever notice how big your hands are? My face feels like plastic and I can taste yellow.

cml387 · 08-01-2014 1:25pm

Ireland beats England in that fight Biko.

Duggy747 · 08-01-2014 1:26pm

My favourite colour is crisps.

Muise... · 08-01-2014 1:27pm

Conall Cernach wrote: »

Whoa! Did you ever notice how big your hands are? My face feels like plastic and I can taste yellow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDRbnmjzY7U

iDave · 08-01-2014 1:33pm

Why is there boards.ie instead of something else?

belacqua_ · 08-01-2014 1:38pm

Zillah wrote: »

How on Earth would nothing be more plausible than something? We have nothing to compare to, nothing to give context to our thoughts. The universe is fundamentally baffling. Ontology is pointless.

Naught is more real than nothing.

force eleven · 08-01-2014 1:39pm

OP - shouldn't you be presenting the weather right about now?

Muise... · 08-01-2014 1:40pm

force eleven wrote: »

OP - shouldn't you be presenting the weather right about now?

whither the weather when we don't know whether it is or not?

zenno · 08-01-2014 1:44pm

"Nothing" is something we just haven't found a scientific name for yet.

Even Nothing is something, once it has a basic name called Nothing, it is something.

Way back in the day, if you told people that there are radio waves on an electromagnetic spectrum but you can't see them, then they would say there was nothing there cause they couldn't see them.

08-01-2014 1:47pm

I read the thread title in Vicky Pollards voice. Summink or nuffink :P

WilyCoyote wrote: »

But sure, nothing is something

Nothing is the absence of anything.

Banjo String · 08-01-2014 1:48pm

Op should read Bill Brysons 'a short history of nearly everything'

Really laid out out to me just how mind boggling the universe, our solar system etc really is.

One of the most interesting reads I've ever had.

Zillah · 08-01-2014 1:54pm

zenno wrote: »

Even Nothing is something

Eh, nope. Conceptually speaking "nothing" is a perfectly valid idea. It mean when there is no thing or things in existence. It's not when there is something that is invisible or hard to see, it's not a special type of thing, it's the word we use to describe the idea of there being no things of any sort in existence.

Obviously that is not the state of the universe, we have a universe full of stuff.

zenno · 08-01-2014 1:59pm

Zillah wrote: »

Eh, nope. Conceptually speaking "nothing" is a perfectly valid idea. It mean when there is no thing or things in existence. It's not when there is something that is invisible or hard to see, it's not a special type of thing, it's the word we use to describe the idea of there being no things of any sort in existence.

Obviously that is not the state of the universe, we have a universe full of stuff.

It seems we have a universe full of nothing, of which is something, but scientists cannot measure this so-called nothing.

The word "Nothing" is mostly used when folk don't understand what something is.

08-01-2014 2:07pm

zenno wrote: »

It seems we have a universe full of nothing, of which is something, but scientists cannot measure this so-called nothing.

The word "Nothing" is mostly used when folk don't understand what something is.

You seem to be mixing up a label or a word with existence rather than the non existence which it describes.

Nothing means the absence of anything. It's just a word that describes void.

Apparently some folks don't understand what nothing is.

Zillah · 08-01-2014 2:08pm

zenno wrote: »

It seems we have a universe full of nothing

No...we have a universe full of things, which are something. If there were "no things", as in, the absence of anything, then there would be nothing, which is to say there wouldn't be anything. No things. Not something. The very definitional opposite of something.

The word "Nothing" is mostly used when folk don't understand what something is.

Nope, what you're failing to understand is that "nothing" is by definition the word we use to describe the idea of there being no things. I think maybe you're getting stuck on the linguistic difficulty of tackling this topic.

Turtwig · 08-01-2014 2:09pm

Because something is and nothing isn't. Anything that exists is called something. So your question then is why do things exists? That's assuming it's odd that they do. When you use why questions you implicitly constrain the question to assumed parameters. A better thing to do would be first explain why it is wrong that something exists. Or why there should be nothing at all. Otherwise, these kind of questions are vacuous and only serve to intentionally stifle and achieve nothing further. From point of view, of humans figuring out their place in the universe it's the wrong question.

On my phone, but right here would be Feynman talking about bad why questions.

zenno · 08-01-2014 2:17pm

Zillah wrote: »

No...we have a universe full of things, which are something. If there were "no things", as in, the absence of anything, then there would be nothing, which is to say there wouldn't be anything. No things. Not something. The very definitional opposite of something.

Nope, what you're failing to understand is that "nothing" is by definition the word we use to describe the idea of there being no things. I think maybe you're getting stuck on the linguistic difficulty of tackling this topic.

I didn't mean everything in the known universe is nothing. I mean the space between other matter bodies in enormous distance between these bodies.

I'm just saying that when folk say there is nothing in the so-called voidness of space, that there is something of which scientists haven't found yet, I should have made myself clearer. Dark matter is what they are calling it now, but i'm sure this "nothing" in this area will turn out to be something eventually when studied more in the future.

Daqster · 08-01-2014 2:21pm

Zillah wrote: »

No, the nothing just isn't.

I'm sorry if that's difficult to get your head around..

Au contraire, 'tis I who is sorry that it seems difficult for your good self, to get your head around.

We really need a better language for this topic.

English will do just fine.

Here's a quote from the Greek philosopher, Parmenides which I feel best sums it up:

"Nothing" cannot exist by the following line of reasoning:

To speak of a thing, one has to speak of a thing that exists. Since we can speak of a thing in the past, it must still exist (in some sense) now and from this concludes that there is no such thing as change."

Now, Aristotle and others didn't agree but I'm with Parmenides, the rest can suck an egg.

danniemcq · 08-01-2014 2:21pm

Banjo String wrote: »

Op should read Bill Brysons 'a short history of nearly everything'

Really laid out out to me just how mind boggling the universe, our solar system etc really is.

One of the most interesting reads I've ever had.

I often go to sleep listening to the audiobook of this, its a book i will never be sick of.

I dunno how many copies of the book i have bought for people and told them not to give it back, but to read it and if they enjoy it pass it on

Zillah · 08-01-2014 2:22pm

zenno wrote: »

I didn't mean everything in the known universe is nothing. I mean the space between other matter bodies in enormous distance between these bodies.

I'm just saying that when folk say there is nothing in the so-called voidness of space, that there is something of which scientists haven't found yet, I should have made myself clearer. Dark matter is what they are calling it now, but i'm sure this "nothing" in this area will turn out to be something eventually when studied more in the future.

We're having a conversation about conceptual nothingness, you're talking about space, which is a thing. It can be measured, it has rules, it exists. Reread the thread title. Why is there anything at all? is the question.

08-01-2014 2:22pm

zenno wrote: »

I didn't mean everything in the known universe is nothing. I mean the space between other matter bodies in enormous distance between these bodies.

I'm just saying that when folk say there is nothing in the so-called voidness of space, that there is something of which scientists haven't found yet, I should have made myself clearer. Dark matter is what they are calling it now, but i'm sure this "nothing" in this area will turn out to be something eventually when studied more in the future.

Dark matter is purported to be particles interacting at very low level of energy, or high energy particles interacting very randomly.

Neither of which theories comprise of 'nothing'.

Nothing means absence, not 'undetectable'.

zenno · 08-01-2014 2:24pm

Zillah wrote: »

We're having a conversation about conceptual nothingness, you're talking about space, which is a thing. It can be measured, it has rules, it exists. Reread the thread title. Why is there anything at all? is the question.

Can dark matter be measured ?, Is it fully understood ? is it just Nothing ?. but doesn't the word nothing mean something, so it exists but not measured or brought to reality just yet ?.

Mr. teddywinkles · 08-01-2014 2:25pm

if there was never a something how could there be nothing in the first place;)

danniemcq · 08-01-2014 2:26pm

Zillah wrote: »

We're having a conversation about conceptual nothingness, you're talking about space, which is a thing. It can be measured, it has rules, it exists. Reread the thread title. Why is there anything at all? is the question.

are you asking why the Universe itself exists?

Or why there is stuff in the Universe?

pundy · 08-01-2014 2:31pm

but it's not nothing - the universe is infinite, so we could be in the so-called "nothing" of another galaxy....?

or, in short - BLEH

Zillah · 08-01-2014 2:33pm

zenno wrote: »

Can dark matter be measured ?

Yes.

Is it fully understood ?

No.

is it just Nothing ?

No. Dark matter is a term we use to describe the presence of anomalous gravity.

. but doesn't the word nothing mean something, so it exists but not measured or brought to reality just yet ?.

The word exists but it is not an accurate description of the state of things, because things exist, instead of there being no things.

This has nothing to do with dark matter, nor does it have anything to do with our ability to measure things.#

DannieHasAFanny wrote: »

are you asking why the Universe itself exists?

Or why there is stuff in the Universe?

The thread title really is the most succinct way of describing the topic, if you're not getting it from that I'm not sure I can help you.

pundy · 08-01-2014 2:34pm

we're too intellectually evolved for our own good i think

nozzferrahhtoo · 08-01-2014 2:34pm

Evelyn Cusack wrote: »

Surely it would make much more sense

What has "sense" got to do with it? Sense has little or nothing to do with anything. It just is what it is. Sensible or otherwise.

However WHY does it make more sense? The thing that always bothers me with the "something rather than nothing" question is the inherent assumption that "nothing" should be the default and "something" should be explained. Why can not "something" be just as validly the default?

If it makes you feel any better however, the results coming out of people like Laurence Krauss is that the universe IS nothing. That nothing simply divided. When they add up all the energy and gravity in the universe the result they are getting is.... Zero.

A poor analogy, but one I use often because I can not think of a better one, is to imagine you have two bank accounts with nothing in either of them. Not hard for some of us to imagine sometimes

Now imagine there is an over draft facility. You transfer money out of one into the other.

You can then go to an ATM and withdraw cash. You have nothing but you divided it in a certain way and now have something. But really you have nothing

Confused? Not suprised, it makes almost none of this "sense" you find so compelling

But alas that appears to be where the science is taking us. We are surrounded in STUFF but when you add it all together.... energy, matter, antimatter, gravity and so forth.... it appears theres a sum total of nothing there

A better explanation without 200 text books I am afraid I can not give, but as I said, the real question is why we operate on this feux default that somehow "nothing" should be the default for all things.

Why is there something instead of nothing?

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