Iain Henderson's long term position: Lock or Blindside?

PlayerTrader13

Age: 21
Height/Weight: 6'7, 116kg

sydthebeat

Blindside for me, he is too much of a 'footballer' in my mind to be an influential second row. He has great pace which is very useful when he finds himself in the back line.

Unfortunately he is probably in a position where he's looking at pom as being a pretty permanent fixture in the Ireland team for the next decade and second row is an area up for grabs, so he himself might target that position of he wants an international career.

Swiwi.

Both?

The old lock who can play blindside, or vice versa has always been "trendy" in NZ, à la Steven Luatua. I haven't seen enough of him to say which he is better at, but covering both could well secure him a bench position come 6N 2014.

PlayerTrader13

Lock for me, we simple don't produce many players of his size and ability.. probably prolongs his career too.

ease him into lock by playing him at blinside but in 5 years time if he isn't starting at lock for Ireland something has seriously gone wrong.

awec

I'm leaning toward the blindside camp these days. I think too many of his qualities are lost when he is in at lock.

sixy

He's wasted as a second row

yosser hughes

sydthebeat wrote: »

Blindside for me, he is too much of a 'footballer' in my mind to be an influential second row. He has great pace which is very useful when he finds himself in the back line.

Unfortunately he is probably in a position where he's looking at pom as being a pretty permanent fixture in the Ireland team for the next decade and second row is an area up for grabs, so he himself might target that position of he wants an international career.

Really? I'm not sure about that at all.

Tox56

6'7? That'd surely be a way above average for a blindside? Given his size and pace he'd be a huge asset there of course but if he can learn to use his carrying game from the second row that's where the need is for Ireland more than 6, same for Ulster if Ferris gets back.

awec

The same debate is happening right now on UAFC and 6 is the definite overwhelming thought.

He is good enough to take the green 6 jersey.

bilston

I don't think he is 6'7"!

Tox56

Also any excuse to post this

What a player he's going to be, whether it's at 6 or second row

PlayerTrader13

bilston wrote: »

I don't think he is 6'7"!

that is he listed height on the ulster website.

[Jackass]

I think he's better at blindside, but is needed at lock for Ulster and Ireland and there'll be more opportunities for him there, so I think he should play lock, even if he is probably more of a blindisde.

The threat is however that if very good locks emerge, he could fall between the cracks as a jack of all trades, master of none, but at the moment there isn't enough emerging talent in the second row for that to be a problem.

Tox56

awec wrote: »

The same debate is happening right now on UAFC and 6 is the definite overwhelming thought.

He is good enough to take the green 6 jersey.

But that means we lose one of POM/SOB/Heaslip, and maybe Ferris when he gets back, while at the second row we have the likes of Ryan/Toner/Tuohy, decent players yes but none have Henderson's potential ability.

case885

awec wrote: »

The same debate is happening right now on UAFC and 6 is the definite overwhelming thought.

He is good enough to take the green 6 jersey.

What if ferris makes a return? He wont start 6 for ulster nevermind ireland. I do think he would be a better 6 though.

Buer

He'll end up as a full time lock within 2 years. Within 4 years we'll be saying "Hey, remember when Henderson used to play flanker?"

wittycynic

I don't get the argument that his gifts are wasted at second row. We currently don't ask enough of our locks in the area of ball carrying and if he persists with second row he could become a wonderfully complete lock.

awec

Tox56 wrote: »

Also any excuse to post this

What a player he's going to be, whether it's at 6 or second row

Saracens one was my favourite. The only way they stopped him was getting their hands down the back of his shorts - anyone who tried to tackle got cast aside.

[Jackass]

Nathan Hines spent a lot of his early career as a 6, but ended up as an out and out lock. There was a time McLoughlin was being looked at as a second row too. It seems to be one of the more common positional switches.

bilston

PlayerTrader13 wrote: »

that is he listed height on the ulster website.

The same website that says Jared Payne is 2 1/2 feet tall and weighs 30 stone!

wp_rathead

He is the natural heir to POC

No doubt he will be a great Blindside but for me, second row

Hagz

I don't see any reason why he can't play both and I think that's what he'll end up doing.

awec

If only we could clone him and play him in both positions.

Tox56

bilston wrote: »

The same website that says Jared Payne is 2 1/2 feet tall and weighs 30 stone!

In fairness there's only a 2cm difference between his listed height on the IRFU site and the Ulster site, it's not a complete shambles!

jamiedav2011

Jesus I cannot wait to see this lad develop in the next few years.

Mouthwatering.

awec

Buer wrote: »

He'll end up as a full time lock within 2 years. Within 4 years we'll be saying "Hey, remember when Henderson used to play flanker?"

I think our scrum improved against Munster when he went off. Maybe he was tired, but there is an argument that he isn't as powerful in the second row.

part time punk

lock so he can come to Leinster who don't need a 6 along with Payne:D

ScissorPaperRock

I wonder where Joe would be thinking of playing him this year in the 6N. Hard to see O'Mahony losing out, but I suppose he's a great bench option.

Buer

awec wrote: »

I think our scrum improved against Munster when he went off. Maybe he was tired, but there is an argument that he isn't as powerful in the second row.

He's only 21. No lock has proper technique developed at that stage for a high standard. He doesn't lack any power or bulk, just how he applies it.

I loathe how we use locks in this country. If someone is a lock, they're expected to keep out of the way and bury themselves into rucks and little else. We developed a generation of locks that were uncomfortable with the ball. It's playing with one arm tied behind your back when you've guys on the field who you can't count on to take and give a pass.

Luckily, that's now changing and Henderson is one of the first who is potentially a blend of the power/aggression of guys like POC and McCarthy and the vision/handling of MOK and Toner.

Utah_Saint

He's a wonderful player who I'm looking forward to watching this fri at Ravenhill.

I feel we lose a little of his talents in the row unless as mentioned above we have a culture change in what we expect of our locks?!

He has the talent to be better than ferris at 6.......
***did i just say better than ferris***

The Pheasant2

bilston wrote: »

The same website that says Jared Payne is 2 1/2 feet tall and weighs 30 stone!

?
It says he's 74 inches (6'2") and 209 pounds (c. 95kg)?

Hagz

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

?
It says he's 74 inches (6'2") and 209 pounds (c. 95kg)?

It says 74cm and 209kg

jamiedav2011

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

?
It says he's 74 inches (6'2") and 209 pounds (c. 95kg)?

Look again...

The Pheasant2

On Henderson I think he's really best utilized at lock where we need talented players like himself. Not to mention we've already got a glut of backrows at the moment

Utah_Saint

also, if Hendo got a good run of games at 6 I think he would def make the ireland squad with POM on the bench.....not for this 6N but for AI's and RWC

dtpc191991

Utah_Saint wrote: »

He's a wonderful player who I'm looking forward to watching this fri at Ravenhill.

I feel we lose a little of his talents in the row unless as mentioned above we have a culture change in what we expect of our locks?!

He has the talent to be better than ferris at 6.......
***did i just say better than ferris***

I reckon that culture change is already happening. Toner's handling skills are no accident, Schmidt wants more dynamic play from his forwards it is the only way his 15 man game can be fully realised.

The Pheasant2

Hagz wrote: »

It says 74cm and 209kg

Oh yeah...ah yanno what they mean!

ionadnapóca

Henderson has the potential to be a great lock. he reminds me of a certain Ian Jones and Robin Brooke, rolled into 1:pac:
He has good hands and can smash through people. That doesn't mean he has to play in the back row. He is the type of player Ireland have been crying out for at lock. Mobile, explosive, aggressive, good skills. In short, a natural rugby player who can play at lock.
Dream team:
4 POC
5 IH
6 Ferris
7 SOB
8 JH

Harry FM

I think we should try and make him into a lock. Ireland have many options in the back row and very little in the second row which is why I think he should play there, I mean he could always play a back row's game but in the second row, look at Etzebeth.

miroslavklose

What's he like scrumming at lock?

awec

miroslavklose wrote: »

What's he like scrumming at lock?

Our scrums aren't as good with him there, but he is still young.

miroslavklose

awec wrote: »

Our scrums aren't as good with him there, but he is still young.

His game in the loose is obviously good enough to make up for it and he's a nuisance in the lineout, but is it enough to make up for a de-powered scrum? Especially as we don't exactly have a powerful 8.

He looks like a lock to me, but he can do his loose and lineout work at 6. He'd need to be adding something extra in the scrum and tackle area to force his way in at lock.

awec

miroslavklose wrote: »

His game in the loose is obviously good enough to make up for it and he's a nuisance in the lineout, but is it enough to make up for a de-powered scrum? Especially as we don't exactly have a powerful 8.

He looks like a lock to me, but he can do his loose and lineout work at 6. He'd need to be adding something extra in the scrum and tackle area to force his way in at lock.

Well I think the scrum thing will come, my only concern is whether lock will reduce his ball carrying impact. At the same time against Munster we had no Muller either in the second row so it's hard to know.

He definitely has no issue in the tackle area, he is Ferris-esque at times in that I imagine it feels like you've been hit by a train. Makes a lot of ground with the ball in hand and concedes very little in defence.

He is like someone took the body of a monster and stuck a childs head on top.

If Ulster could get Ferris, Henderson and Williams on the field at the same time and all fully fit and chugging along it would be a very painful match for the opposition.

Neil3030

Just take a second to sit back and imagine an Ireland team with the ballcarrying of Healy, Strauss/Best, O'Brien, Henderson and Ferris all potentially being on the field at the same time.

Mother.

Of.

GOD.

Kayless

Tox56 wrote: »

But that means we lose one of POM/SOB/Heaslip, and maybe Ferris when he gets back, while at the second row we have the likes of Ryan/Toner/Tuohy, decent players yes but none have Henderson's potential ability.

This.

It goes back to the idea of building a team. If Henderson slots into the second row and Ferris returns to blind side then POM drops to the bench, so automatically Ireland have a far stronger pack and more depth.

Right now I would say England have a stronger pack than us but if we could field

Healy
Best
Ross
Henderson
POC
Ferris
SOB
Heaslip

We would have one of the strongest packs around. From the above the only weak link is Ross, IMO that's a very good place to be considering how good he can be at times.

Utah_Saint

awec wrote: »

Well I think the scrum thing will come, my only concern is whether lock will reduce his ball carrying impact. At the same time against Munster we had no Muller either in the second row so it's hard to know.

He definitely has no issue in the tackle area, he is Ferris-esque at times in that I imagine it feels like you've been hit by a train. Makes a lot of ground with the ball in hand and concedes very little in defence.

He is like someone took the body of a monster and stuck a childs head on top.

If Ulster could get Ferris, Henderson and Williams on the field at the same time and all fully fit and chugging along it would be a very painful match for the opposition.

Always makes me laugh....especially when he smashes battle hardened 30+ second/back rows.
I Wonder did he get his first razor for christmas? You know the Gillette multipack which includes the gel and balm:D

Kayless

Just realised Henderson is still only 21 :eek:

The age profile of Ireland's upcoming players looks like it getting younger

Jack McGrath - 24/ James Cronin - 23
Duncan Casey - 23
Moore - 22
Ian Henderson - 21
Dave Foley - 25

Those in bold are there or there about, is the age profile getting younger?

Henderson of 2016 should be a completely different player to the one we see these days.

This kid could be special. Give him time before we typecast him into a role. At the moment, he has all the potential to play either of the positions to an incredible standard.

I'd like to see him progress at lock, but I also like the idea of him retaining some blindside opportunities. His development has been excellent so far, I'd rather leave him in the hands of those that have done that. They will find his spot.

.ak

Kayless wrote: »

Just realised Henderson is still only 21 :eek:

The age profile of Ireland's upcoming players looks like it getting younger

Jack McGrath - 24/ James Cronin - 23
Duncan Casey - 23
Moore - 22
Ian Henderson - 21
Dave Foley - 25

Those in bold are there or there about, is the age profile getting younger?

To be honest we're only seeing the advent of the professional age now. Rugby players 'prime' age was always late 20s or early 30s. That's changing now. We've seen it with other nations (Wales, NZ... Any coincidence that rugby is first sport in these countries?) and we're just catching up.

jacothelad

Deleted User wrote: »

Henderson of 2016 should be a completely different player to the one we see these days.

This kid could be special. Give him time before we typecast him into a role. At the moment, he has all the potential to play either of the positions to an incredible standard.

I'd like to see him progress at lock, but I also like the idea of him retaining some blindside opportunities. His development has been excellent so far, I'd rather leave him in the hands of those that have done that. They will find his spot.

I agree but with one caveat. I hope Ireland don't do their usual thing with good young players and keep them hanging around for years behind older, now less effective players because they once had a reputation. I know this is less likely but over the 50+ years I have been involved in rugby here, this has been the default position. It was actually Warren Gatland who started the break from this 'tradition', one in which we had the likes of Michael Bradley - not a bad player BUT - holding back better younger ones. The sobriquet "Dad's Army" was well earned in the 70's, part of the 80's and the 90's. The situation was almost but not quite as damaging in the provinces. Jimmy Davidson took Ulster to an astonishing level by bringing in young guys like the Irwin brothers, Crossan, Carr, Ringland, Anderson, Jimmy McCoy, Rab Brady etc. 8 of the team that defeated the Grand Slam Australian team had played together for Queen's University. The team went undefeated in the Interpro games for 10 years. One guy who has been forgotten down the years is David Irwin's brother, Alan. He had to retire because of a serious head injury but he was one of the most talented players I have ever seen. I must say I am a firm believer in giving youth it's day - early.

Funk It

As much as I think he would be a great 6, he could be up there as one of the best locks Ireland has ever produced.