thinking of 223

sniperman

hi all,thinking of going down the 223 route,i have a hmr,just sold my 22 as i was just not using it,anyhow,i was asked by 2 farmers who breed lambs if i would do some fox control, they said a good few last years lambs were taken,or course i said yes,i know the hmr will down a fox at 100-120 yrds,but i want that for bunnies,hence the 223 interest,so it would be my first 223,and would like opinions on what model,what ammno to use,what mod,and would i have to fill in a full licence application form?scope wise i have a hawke eclipse 6-24x50,im thinking that would do?just want this gun for fox,oh and whats a realistic range i could expect to down a fox with a 223,thanks lads for any advice;)

aaakev

I was annoyed I sold my hmr when i got the 223 so I think your doing the right thing keeping it!! Im getting a deer rifle now to replace my 223 and I plan on adding a hmr to the mix too hopefully before the end of the year!

I went for a CZ 527 with a t8 mod and was delighted with it from day one. The set up is quite light and ease to carry around at night lamping. I started off using 40gr vmax and had serious success with them, they are a devastating hunting round and you hear the impact thump so clear even at long range. I shot a few foxes over 250 yards and my longest shot was about 320 yards or so in a huge meadow I use for plinking.

I was in a shop one day and he had about 8 boxes of 50gr hollow point american eagle so i did a deal with him for €13 a box I think and found them great too, they group less than 1" at 100 yards, iv shot 2 ltr milk bottles at 250+ with them and steel targets out very far. I also found them very good for foxes too.

You will shoot a fox as far as your ability allows, most shots I found were 80-120 yards the longer shots were few and far between but I was out shooting 4-5 nights a week and some days in 2012 so there was plenty shot! wish I had the time still but work took over so i haven't been out lamping this winter at all

German pointer

I just bought a Tikka T3 Tactical in .223. Heavy enough rifle but I'll be using it for targets out to 600 yards and long range hunting vermin control so the weight won't worry me. I've the rifle bought but have not sent in the application yet. I'd say the scope you have would grand I'll be using a 3-12 or a 4-16 on my one. If you want to use heaver rounds get a 1-8 or 1-9 twist barrel as these barells will stabilize all rounds.

4200fps

By the best, stay with European rifles
Tikka is the best. TriggerPL on this knows that too :P

TriggerPL

4200fps wrote: »

By the best, stay with European rifles
Tikka is the best. TriggerPL on this knows that too :P

Yea European that why I've a steyr !! That you can never take ur eyes off

Nekarsulm

have just bought a Tikka T3 in 223 as well. licence getting close now so can't wait. Lambing starting Feb. 7, so anxious to get going. Its s secondhand one, don't know twist rate.

4200fps

TriggerPL wrote: »

Yea European that why I've a steyr !! That you can never take ur eyes off it

My Tikka fed alot of hungry bellys :P

FISMA

Sniperman,
A lot really depends on what you can afford and the deal that you get.

If you're starting up, you are looking to get a rifle, rail, rings, scope, light, and bipod/sticks. You may want to shop by caliber, rather, than brand. You never know what deal is out there. You should try and get a package deal, you'll save the most money. Are you going new or used?

Most rifles shoot better than the person pulling the trigger so don't get too obsessive with the selection.

The 223 is a great round and think you've chosen well here.

I have a Howa 1500 and a Remington 700 in 223 and both are tack drivers.

I do not have a Tikka, but a Sako, that I cannot say enough good things about. I will probably get Tikka soon. Maybe in 22-250 or Swift.

The good thing about the Tikka is that they come with better stocks and triggers, in general, than the 1500 or 700. However, that is true only of the lower end models, like the SPS.

The one thing I dislike about the Tikka and Sako's are the proprietary mounts. Reminds me of Apple-McIntosh who had to make their own hard drive, memory, et al.

When I feed the 700 and 1500 a steady diet of handloads (I do not live in Eire): Sierra Game/Match Kings, Nosler, and Bergers their precision leaves little room for improvement, aside from myself. Out of the box Hornady results are equally impressive. I can even feed them green box Remy and have no problem with Fox sized targets in and around 300yards.

If you are using a lamp, you will not need to have the high end glass. Swaro's, S&B, USOptics, and the like are great in low light, like dusk and dawn. They will get you that extra few minutes and the last shot. However, at night with a Lightforce, the cost to me is not justified.

The magnification range and bell size you mentioned are spot on for the job. Seems like a good choice to me. I would recommend an illuminated reticle, if possible. You'll do just fine without one though.

For lamping, I use the 700 or 1500, a Nightforce Rail with 20moa, XTR, Vortex(matched), or NightForce rings, and a Burris Fullfield Scope. Other scopes that get the job done nicely are Nikon, Bushnell, Redfield, Nikko-Stirling. If you have the dosh for a Z3, why not?

I have not come across Savage rifles too much in Ireland, however, they are most definitely worth a look.

hedzball

Nekarsulm wrote: »

have just bought a Tikka T3 in 223 as well. licence getting close now so can't wait. Lambing starting Feb. 7, so anxious to get going. Its s secondhand one, don't know twist rate.

You'll see either an 8 or 12 on the barrel..

Im mad keen on the idea of swapping my 223 out for a 243 but been offered a t3 in 300wm so I am holding off for the time being plus my t3 is just a thing of beauty with the bobs im after spending on her..


Realistic range for a 223 is 3-400 yards.. I use 50gr fiocchi in a 1in8 twist t3 and Have killed them out to 360 yards under a hid lamp..

I am sure in the right hands she would do so much more but she is just a point and shoot gun for me at the moment loaded with the 8x56 and the carbon fibre stock and ultra light mod... carry her around all day..


The 10shot ai mag is taking the proverbial piddle mind..



'hdz

Nekarsulm

after my application went missing in the station, last August, had to start again just before Christmas. Got a letter yesterday from the main Gardai station to say my application went had been received, and that in line with protocols; i would have an answer in less than 3 months! sincerely hope it is a lot quicker than that.

Jonty

Nekarsulm wrote: »

after my application went missing in the station, last August, had to start again just before Christmas. Got a letter yesterday from the main Gardai station to say my application went had been received, and that in line with protocols; i would have an answer in less than 3 months! sincerely hope it is a lot quicker than that.

:rolleyes:

4200fps

I'd stay away from Howa cause when you want to sell it second hand you be lucky to get 200-300 for it, they have extremely poor resale its their only down fall and Tikkas don't make swifts. Savage rifles have a rough action I disliked, My brother had a Remington 223 in LVSF, fine rifle. Hard sold it was, killed heaps of foxs but was put against his mates Tikka Lite and the Tikka was giving better results and never jammed where both my ex Remington and his jammed on few occasions when the pressure was on. Never had this problem when I moved to Tikka. Super slick bolt.
On optics nobody knows what a good scope is until they look through one and thats a fact. Under a lamp there's a big difference. For about 700 euro you'd but the clearest most well built scope for its price and that would be the zeiss Duralyt. Has great appreciation value, image clarity outstanding, under a lamp its like day time. You will see everything. Compare it to a Burris we had one, you will see the difference.

FISMA

4200fps wrote: »

I'd stay away from Howa cause when you want to sell it second hand you be lucky to get 200-300 for it, they have extremely poor resale its their only down fall

That's a pretty bad resale for such a great rifle. If they can be had at that price, I would encourage the OP to get one used.

+1 for the Howa - it shares parts, like the rail, with the 700 bolt pattern. Thus, all the rail and ring combos for the 700 are an option for the 1500.

I am still thinking about getting a Nosler rifle which if I am correct, is like a custom Howa, correct?

4200fps

FISMA wrote: »

That's a pretty bad resale for such a great rifle. If they can be had at that price, I would encourage the OP to get one used.

+1 for the Howa - it shares parts, like the rail, with the 700 bolt pattern. Thus, all the rail and ring combos for the 700 are an option for the 1500.

I am still thinking about getting a Nosler rifle which if I am correct, is like a custom Howa, correct?

I'd do the same. Country is flooded with 223's he be spoiled for choice

Nekarsulm

Jonty wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Got a call today fom the local Sargent, apparently my application has run into trouble. It is not deemed a "like for like" because the new (second hand)rifle had a moderator included, and the rifle I had before this had not. Despite including a letter which outlined the reasons for the moderator, the Super is disinclined to issue licence for the rifle/mod outfit. Sargent hinted that I may have to pay an 80 euro application to have the mod on the licence, but if I were to leave the mod in the dealers shop, the licence would go through quick enough.

Any thought folk?

hedzball

They're a pack of füçk†ards???

TriggerPL

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Got a call today fom the local Sargent, apparently my application has run into trouble. It is not deemed a "like for like" because the new (second hand)rifle had a moderator included, and the rifle I had before this had not. Despite including a letter which outlined the reasons for the moderator, the Super is disinclined to issue licence for the rifle/mod outfit. Sargent hinted that I may have to pay an 80 euro application to have the mod on the licence, but if I were to leave the mod in the dealers shop, the licence would go through quick enough.

Any thought folk?

Pay the 80 euro and be done with them , and make sure the licence has the famous S on it ! And when ya hand in the application. Get a letter from who you hand it to , stating that u have completed the application with the moderator part ticked .

Nekarsulm

I presume the 80 euro is a one off fee? And when the licence is due for renewal in 2015 I won't have to pay 160 euro for the renewal at that stage?

TriggerPL

Nekarsulm wrote: »

I presume the 80 euro is a one off fee? And when the licence is due for renewal in 2015 I won't have to pay 160 euro for the renewal at that stage?

It will not have to be payed again for 3 years

Nekarsulm

sorry to seem bit slow on the uptake, but Will the rifle and mod. be on a single licence at renewal time, or will there be two separate licences?

TriggerPL

Nekarsulm wrote: »

sorry to seem bit slow on the uptake, but Will the rifle and mod. be on a single licence at renewal time, or will there be two separate licences?

Same licence it a renewal so everything should be the same bit alway check

Nekarsulm

Super not going to issue licence for the Mod, it seems. My letter outlining reasons I wanted it done more harm than good. I stated that I required it to minimise alarm to livestock and boom neighbouring farmers etc, whilst Fox shooting. My local Sergeant got a letter back with portions of the relevant guidelines highlighted. Mod will be granted for rimfire rife because would be used for rabbit hunting, and as rabbits are likely to be in social groups a moderater would be advantageous to allow subsequent shots at the same group. Foxes are more solitary so there is no need. Regarding neighbours etc, a moderater is to be avoided as the lack of noise reduces the level of warning members of the public receive regarding the shooters presence. The guidelines went on to state that a moderater , while acting to reduce recoil, was not necessary for this function while fox shooting due to the small number of shots taken per outing. It also stated that where many shots are being taken, for example at a gun club range, the shooter and others in the vicinity would be using ear protection as a matter of course. So, no use fighting against the tide, going for sub. without the mod. and we'll see what happens in 2 years when renewal time comes again.

TriggerPL

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Super not going to issue licence for the Mod, it seems. My letter outlining reasons I wanted it done more harm than good. I stated that I required it to minimise alarm to livestock and boom neighbouring farmers etc, whilst Fox shooting. My local Sergeant got a letter back with portions of the relevant guidelines highlighted. Mod will be granted for rimfire rife because would be used for rabbit hunting, and as rabbits are likely to be in social groups a moderater would be advantageous to allow subsequent shots at the same group. Foxes are more solitary so there is no need. Regarding neighbours etc, a moderater is to be avoided as the lack of noise reduces the level of warning members of the public receive regarding the shooters presence. The guidelines went on to state that a moderater , while acting to reduce recoil, was not necessary for this function while fox shooting due to the small number of shots taken per outing. It also stated that where many shots are being taken, for example at a gun club range, the shooter and others in the vicinity would be using ear protection as a matter of course. So, no use fighting against the tide, going for sub. without the mod. and we'll see what happens in 2 years when renewal time comes again.

Mate ur mad , reply with a letter saying the the use of a mod Is needed because of the commonness of foxs being in the same fields as livestock such as sheep and that during the lambing season and mating season it is common to see more than one fox in a field ,

And if he is not willing to listen then u spend a hundred euro and get a solicitor to outline all of this in an official letter, if anything the super will listen then , why are lad so content to settle for what there given !!!

Don't give up that easy ,

TriggerPL

Are you going for a new licence or sub

Nekarsulm

Because I need this rifle yesterday, and with the straight sub I Will have it in days, according to the Sarge . Otherwise it could be 80 euro, 12 weeks to process and still be told "no" I have lambs on the ground now, just a few, but they are going to be coming thick and fast from Feb. 7th. Gotta pick your battles, and I have been told that this particular Super Will be in another district in the next 18 months. Hope he doesn't become yours!
And two fox s shot could easily save ten lambs, that would save the price of the rifle.

TriggerPL

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Because I need this rifle yesterday, and with the straight mod. I Will have it in days, according to the Sarge . Otherwise it could be 80 euro, 12 weeks to process and still be told "no" I have lambs on the ground now, just a few, but they are going to be coming thick and fast from Feb. 7th. Gotta pick your battles, and I have been told that this particular Super Will be in another district in the next 18 months. Hope he doesn't become yours!
And two fox s shot could easily save ten lambs, that would save the price of the rifle.

If he is as u say I'd be shocked if you have it in days , and once u get that licence with out mod ul have a battle to prove you need it , All he has to say is sure ya didn't need it the last few years .

TriggerPL

At the end of the day u came asking advice and you have it now it's up to u what ya do with it , let us know if ur licence is processed that fast

Nekarsulm

I'll let you know how I get on, and thanks for the advice, I do appreciate it.

TriggerPL

Nekarsulm wrote: »

I'll let you know how I get on, and thanks for the advice, I do appreciate it.

No problem bud just pisses me of that they try to push there view of weather u need one or not on ya , u could also make the point at a later stage that is ur rabbit gun as well as foxs

dodderangler

What exactly is the problem with having a mod anyway?
Could someone shine a light on it.

Nekarsulm

your last point is exactly what my Sarge advised Also."it Will likely be a different Super, and we will likknow better how to approach it."