Quevega

stretchaq

any info on the supermare is she on target for Cheltenham again?? cant find an update on her

Gringo180

stretchaq wrote: »

any info on the supermare is she on target for Cheltenham again?? cant find an update on her

Super mare? Bit of a stretch that. Top class horse but not as good as some people go on. Why have they never put her in a World Hurdle, doing a massive disservice to the horse imo, she wins a WH and I would agree with your analysis of her.

Hulk Hands

She's won 4 of the Irish equivalent of the WH. Not everything is about Cheltenham and the English version. She's still won 5 times there anyway. If she's not a supermare, then what mare qualifies for the title? She's been the best mare since Dawn Run

Gringo180

Hulk Hands wrote: »

She's won 4 of the Irish equivalent of the WH. Not everything is about Cheltenham and the English version. She's still won 5 times there anyway. If she's not a supermare, then what mare qualifies for the title? She's been the best mare since Dawn Run

She has beat complete jobbers in 3 of those mare hurdle wins, her best performance to date is beaten a 161 rated Voler La Vadette by 6 lengths. Annie Power has beat more than she has on a race course, toying with a 166 rated Zarkandar LTO. Honest question, why have they never had a go at the World Hurdle?

Hulk Hands

She hasn't gone because Big Bucks is one of the greatest horses of all time and they didnt want to risk ruining an already fragile mare. When they got the chance last year, she was too old and likely past her best. She also only comes to herself in the spring, making it very tough to have a horse fit enough to win a World Hurdle first time out. I'll ask again, if she doesnt deserve the title supermare, then which mare does? If AP is the only answer you can come up with then ive little interest discussing it further

Gringo180

Hulk Hands wrote: »

She hasn't gone because Big Bucks is one of the greatest horses of all time and they didnt want to risk ruining an already fragile mare. When they got the chance last year, she was too old and likely past her best. She also only comes to herself in the spring, making it very tough to have a horse fit enough to win a World Hurdle first time out. I'll ask again, if she doesnt deserve the title supermare, then which mare does? If AP is the only answer you can come up with then ive little interest discussing it further

I am not having a pop at the horse as I have said already she is top class, but if she was a super mare they should of at least had the balls to go for the World Hurdle last year, they bottled it and took the easy option of beating a bunch of handicappers in the Mares Hurdle, just look at that form the 2nd horse was rated in the 120s. She is over rated by many on here, blinkered by her 4 wins at Cheltenham without looking at what she beat.

longshotvalue

The only reason she hasn't really gone for the world hurdle in her prime, im sure is that Ruby said Big Bucks is unbeatable and he was right.

She has won the mares hurdle easily, and then gone onto punchestown and proved to be easily the 2nd best stayer of the last 5-6 years.. Annie power has beaten Zarkandar a couple of times and is without doubt a top class horse. But beating Reve- De -Sivola last year on heavy ground (hard held), which was his perfect conditions, is as good as could be expected. His record on heavy ground is very good.

Annie will have to prove it in more than a 2 horse race to be mentioned in the same sentence.. Mind you i hope she does

Gringo180

aidankkk wrote: »

But beating Reve- De -Sivola last year on heavy ground (hard held), which was his perfect conditions, is as good as could be expected. His record on heavy ground is very good.

You have to take into account that this was after a long season for Reve whereas Quevega was the much fresher horse, he went to France a few weeks later and was tailed of iirc. It would of took him a career best to beat her conceding 7lbs on an absolute bog.

stretchaq

if he is not a supermare I don't no what mare ever was (except dawn run) she is a fantastic animal with almost 600k prize money = supermare I am fully reserving judgement on the ever hyped annie power until I see her beat something of class in fairness zarkander is a regressive horse IMO

Gringo180

stretchaq wrote: »

if he is not a supermare I don't no what mare ever was (except dawn run) she is a fantastic animal with almost 600k prize money = supermare I am fully reserving judgement on the ever hyped annie power until I see her beat something of class in fairness zarkander is a regressive horse IMO

But this is my point. AP has beaten a better horse than Quevega ever has, if there is any mare hyped here surely it is Quevega??

Backstreet Moyes

Gringo180 wrote: »

But this is my point. AP has beaten a better horse than Quevega ever has, if there is any mare hyped here surely it is Quevega??

What's it got to do with Annie Power or hype. She was called a supermare she is a mare and is a superstar. You know the only reason she didn't go to the world hurdle is because of Big Buck's. If BB wasn't around i have no doubt she would have 1 or 2 wourld hudle's to her name.

stretchaq

annie power has beat the same horse twice zarkander?? is zarkander as good as 2 years ago probably not is annie power something special perhaps?? but would have to see her in a decent field first

Gringo180

Nuts102 wrote: »

What's it got to do with Annie Power or hype. She was called a supermare she is a mare and is a superstar. You know the only reason she didn't go to the world hurdle is because of Big Buck's. If BB wasn't around i have no doubt she would have 1 or 2 wourld hudle's to her name.

I never mentioned hype I was simply replying to a question. They had the chance last year and bottled it, I am not saying she wouldn't of won it (although personally I think Solwhit would of beat her) but she deserved her place in the field but they decided to go the Mares Hurdle littered with handicappers.

stretchaq wrote: »

annie power has beat the same horse twice zarkander?? is zarkander as good as 2 years ago probably not is annie power something special perhaps?? but would have to see her in a decent field first

Zarkander put up one of his best performances a few months ago beating The New One at Aintree, its unfair to say he has regressed.

jimjamcos

Zarkander definitely didn't run to his best the last day and while he handles it, soft ground doesn't suit him best. Annie Power adores it and it showed. She's got undoubted class but I'd question that form given ground conditions.

CSSource God

Gringo you're not really backing yourself up here with many facts! Reve De Sivola was fresh in Punchestown last year i was standing with and talking to the owners! He ran to form and came up against a better horse in Quevega! She annihalated him fair and square! Ruby didnt have to touch her! Whatever about the mares she has proved herself in Punchestown! She is rated 167 and even Willie has stated thats her mark not having been really pushed in the last 3 yrs! I honestly believe she had the beating of Solwhit! Not taking anything from Annie she has beaten Zarkander twice but i think he has regressed! But to say Annie is better than Quevega is ridiculous she will have to prove it! Im closely related to her owner btw and very proud of her you should be too

jimjamcos

CSSource God wrote: »

Gringo you're not really backing yourself up here with many facts! Reve De Sivola was fresh in Punchestown last year i was standing with and talking to the owners! He ran to form and came up against a better horse in Quevega! She annihalated him fair and square! Ruby didnt have to touch her! Whatever about the mares she has proved herself in Punchestown! She is rated 167 and even Willie has stated thats her mark not having been really pushed in the last 3 yrs! I honestly believe she had the beating of Solwhit! Not taking anything from Annie she has beaten Zarkander twice but i think he has regressed! But to say Annie is better than Quevega is ridiculous she will have to prove it! Im closely related to her owner btw and very proud of her you should be too

Byrnes comments about the World Hurdle Champion after Punchestown race: "He only had a scratch on his nose and scoped perfectly, but Davy did the right thing. We dodged a right one anyway in Quevega.’’

Nuff said. :cool:

davesmith7

Quevega is a supermare. Fact. She's took on high class horses and beaten them!

hucklebuck

davesmith7 wrote: »

Quevega is a supermare. Fact. She's took on high class horses and beaten them!

What high class horses, RDS is below top class and inconsistent.

Gringo180

CSSource God wrote: »

Gringo you're not really backing yourself up here with many facts! Reve De Sivola was fresh in Punchestown last year i was standing with and talking to the owners! He ran to form and came up against a better horse in Quevega! She annihalated him fair and square! Ruby didnt have to touch her! Whatever about the mares she has proved herself in Punchestown! She is rated 167 and even Willie has stated thats her mark not having been really pushed in the last 3 yrs! I honestly believe she had the beating of Solwhit! Not taking anything from Annie she has beaten Zarkander twice but i think he has regressed! But to say Annie is better than Quevega is ridiculous she will have to prove it! Im closely related to her owner btw and very proud of her you should be too

She was pushed out in the mares hurdle and got a few cracks of the whip to beat horses rated in the 120s-130s As I have already said she is a high class mare but people going around saying she is a superstar is just silly, the likes of Sprinter Sacre, Kauto Star, Best Mate, Moscow Flyer etc there all superstars because they have tackled and beat the best over and over again, Quevega hasn't. They should of let her have a shot of last years World Hurdle the horse deserved at least that instead of throwing her in an appalling Mares Hurdle.

Gringo180

davesmith7 wrote: »

Quevega is a supermare. Fact. She's took on high class horses and beaten them!

Name them? Only top horse she's faced would be Solwhit and he beat her.

jimjamcos

Gringo180 wrote: »

She was pushed out in the mares hurdle and got a few cracks of the whip to beat horses rated in the 120s-130s As I have already said she is a top class mare but people going around saying she is a superstar is just silly, the likes of Sprinter Sacre, Kauto Star, Best Mate, Moscow Flyer etc there all superstars because they have tackled and beat the best over and over again, Quevega hasn't. They should of let her have a shot of last years World Hurdle the horse deserved at least that instead of throwing her in an appalling Mares Hurdle.

She met a world of trouble in the Mares and still won from a seemingly impossible position. Was only her prep run too. Sure look at Hurricane Fly, any horse will improve heaps for a run. RDS is a top horse on bottomless ground and has the Gr.1 wins to prove it.

Gringo180

jimjamcos wrote: »

She met a world of trouble in the Mares and still won from a seemingly impossible position. Was only her prep run too. Sure look at Hurricane Fly, any horse will improve heaps for a run. RDS is a top horse on bottomless ground and has the Gr.1 wins to prove it.

He is a good horse around at the right time, not a top horse. Salubrious had him beaten last time out on his favourite heavy ground only for an absolute howler at the last.

CSSource God

Well she has beaten Mourad, Voler La Vedette when she was on top form and got within 1 3/4 lengths of Big Bucks and smashed Reve! Look at the prize money he has won this year already! Willie has said himself he enters her in the Champion Hurdle in case Hurricane got injured! She is that good and she has a tremendous turn of foot! She is normally about 80% fit each cheltenham and look what she does! The last time she lost she was injured in Auteil in France,, and when she came 3rd in Punchestown behind Punjabi and Solwhit years ago she was drafted in at the last minute and wasnt fully fit that day! She is a far better horse now! She can run over 2 miles, 2 m4, and 3 miles not many can do that! Zaidpour was 36 lengths behind her last year in Punchestown, she looked a picture that day never saw her looking so good

Gringo180

jimjamcos wrote: »

She met a world of trouble in the Mares and still won from a seemingly impossible position. Was only her prep run too. Sure look at Hurricane Fly, any horse will improve heaps for a run. RDS is a top horse on bottomless ground and has the Gr.1 wins to prove it.

She didnt meet any trouble. She was held up and was outpaced a long way from home. Met no trouble.

Gringo180

CSSource God wrote: »

Well she has beaten Mourad, Voler La Vedette when she was on top form and got within 1 3/4 lengths of Big Bucks and smashed Reve! Look at the prize money he has won this year already! Willie has said himself he enters her in the Champion Hurdle in case Hurricane got injured! She is that good and she has a tremendous turn of foot! She is normally about 80% fit each cheltenham and look what she does! The last time she lost she was injured in Auteil in France,, and when she came 3rd in Punchestown behind Punjabi and Solwhit years ago she was drafted in at the last minute and wasnt fully fit that day! She is a far better horse now! She can run over 2 miles, 2 m4, and 3 miles not many can do that! Zaidpour was 36 lengths behind her last year in Punchestown, she looked a picture that day never saw her looking so good

Surely she deserved a shot at last years World Hurdle so? They bottled it and went the easy route and will do so again this year.

davesmith7

She's a supermare because she always delivers for punters @ Chelt.

She's no Kauto Star, but she's a decent horse. She's beaten a fee decent horses. Not superstars though.

CSSource God

Gringo you're just bein a muppet now! She has proven herself full stop! She was very overweight in Cheltenham Willie later admitted that fact, she almost came down and lost several lenghts on the leaders as they kicked on at that stage and she slowed down! Ruby had to shake her up a few times to get her goin after that! Quebega is now committed to trying to make history by winning 6 in a row in the mares! Who won the workd hurdle last year? Solwhit! Who were we taking on in Punchestown? Solwhit! So how could you say the owners bottled it? They were looking forward to the big clash in Punchestown as i was! Very disappointed he did t run she would have proved how great she is! They dont avoid other horses, unfortunately Ruby rode Big Bucks and as Quevega is only 80% fit in Cheltenham they go for the mares in Cheltenham and the big race in Punchestown when she's fully fit! She is a very difficult horse to train and get fully fit!

SRFC

Gringo180 wrote: »

She didnt meet any trouble. She was held up and was outpaced a long way from home. Met no trouble.

What race were you watching ruby nearly fell off her,she was 60% fit and still bolted up going away at end never in doubt coming to the last stays all day.

Gringo180

davesmith7 wrote: »

She's a supermare because she always delivers for punters @ Chelt.

She's no Kauto Star, but she's a decent horse. She's beaten a fee decent horses. Not superstars though.

Exactly what I am saying, people over rate her because she may have won them money or the fact she has won 5 times in a row at Cheltenham. But the fact is she has never faced a true Grade 1 field of horses. The owners and trainers have done a massive disservice to her, she could of been so so much better.

CSSource God

Well maybe her and Annie Power could clash at Punchestown I'll put a word in for ya! Would that make you happy? Would like to see that one! My money would be on Quevega over 3 miles she's a monster there!

Gringo180

CSSource God wrote: »

Well maybe her and Annie Power could clash at Punchestown I'll put a word in for ya! Would that make you happy? Would like to see that one! My money would be on Quevega over 3 miles she's a monster there!

Listen I am just giving my opinion on her thats all I dont mean to be coming across as a muppet. Have a word with your relatives and even ask to give her a shot against the big boys at Aintree, she deserves it

tipster

Gringo180 wrote: »

She didnt meet any trouble. She was held up and was outpaced a long way from home. Met no trouble.

she was practically on the floor after clipping heels :rolleyes:was a super performance to win after what happened and where she found herself.she oozes class .shoot me down if ye like but id have loved to see her take on big bucks i dont think hed have seen her whizzing past him

CSSource God

Alright sorry for callin ye a muppet Gringo i get fairly passionate about that horse as I know she's one in a lifetime and we wont get the likes again! Hopefully she'll come out of training well this year again! She is very difficult to train and have every faith in Willie wouldnt want her with anyone else, that injury she ha almost ended her career and theyre always afraid it could come back! wont be goin to Aintree lets hope the big boys come to Punchestown! Its a €170,000 race so should attract them!

dirkmeister

Ruby nearly fell off her last year after clipping heels, he said after the race that by the time he sorted himself out that the leaders were after bolting off and nearly out of sight.

Backstreet Moyes

Gringo180 wrote: »

Exactly what I am saying, people over rate her because she may have won them money or the fact she has won 5 times in a row at Cheltenham. But the fact is she has never faced a true Grade 1 field of horses. The owners and trainers have done a massive disservice to her, she could of been so so much better.

How did they do her a disservice what nonsense. The owners had the chance each year to finish 2nd to the great staying hurdler of all time or go win a race at Cheltenham. If Big Buck;s wasn't around she would have a few world hurdles to her name.

Gringo180

Nuts102 wrote: »

How did they do her a disservice what nonsense. The owners had the chance each year to finish 2nd to the great staying hurdler of all time or go win a race at Cheltenham. If Big Buck;s wasn't around she would have a few world hurdles to her name.

I'm going around in circles here. Why didn't they go for the World Hurdle last year so?

Gringo180

dirkmeister wrote: »

Ruby nearly fell off her last year after clipping heels, he said after the race that by the time he sorted himself out that the leaders were after bolting off and nearly out of sight.

Look at the race again, I presume the incident happened at 3.43 in the above clip? Hardly as bad as people are making it out to be?

dirkmeister

Channel 4 showed a side on view of the incident after the race, that clip at 3:43 doesn't do it justice.

Backstreet Moyes

Gringo180 wrote: »

I'm going around in circles here. Why didn't they go for the World Hurdle last year so?

They wanted to break the record for consecutive wins of the same race or she is getting older would be my ideas for not going that route.

Do you think if Big Buck;s was not around would Quevega have been running in the World Hurdle the last few years. I don't blame them for avoiding Big Bucks.

klairondavis

Would have loved to see her have a crack at Big Bucks when both of them were at their peaks. I'm convinced she would have given him a much tougher examination than some people seem to think. It's probable that Walsh told Mullins that he would destroy her but then he would, wouldn't he? He just wants to ride two Cheltenham winners rather than one!

The extra day and all these silly new races at the Cheltenham Festival have robbed us of some potentially great clashes in recent years. If there was a mares hurdle around in the 1980s would Dawn Run even be remembered now? Fair play to connections of Voler La Vedette who at least let their mare have a crack at the geldings at Cheltenham.

mdwexford

aidankkk wrote: »

She has won the mares hurdle easily, and then gone onto punchestown and proved to be easily the 2nd best stayer of the last 5-6 years..

She is nowhere near the second best stayer of the last 5-6 years.

Horse is very over rated by a lot of people, to say she would have a few World Hurdles without BB being around is also madness.

Punchestowns and Grands Crus certainly would have beaten her imo.

She has won the worst race at Cheltenham for the past 5 years and generally a weak field afterwards at Punchestown. Not her fault she can only beat what's against her but she doesn't have many, if any top class scalps.

nobody told me

mdwexford wrote: »

She is nowhere near the second best stayer of the last 5-6 years.

Horse is very over rated by a lot of people, to say she would have a few World Hurdles without BB being around is also madness.

Punchestowns and Grands Crus certainly would have beaten her imo.

She has won the worst race at Cheltenham for the past 5 years and generally a weak field afterwards at Punchestown. Not her fault she can only beat what's against her but she doesn't have many, if any top class scalps.

Hard to do when you only race twice a year

Gringo180

nobody told me wrote: »

Hard to do when you only race twice a year

Hardly the horses fault is it??

convert

Guys, I'm glad you sorted things out amongst yourselves, but just be careful that you attack the post, not the poster, from now on. Thanks.

andyman

Gringo180 wrote: »

Hardly the horses fault is it??

"Fault" might be the wrong word, but there's a reason why she only races twice a year

tipster

mdwexford wrote: »

.

Punchestowns and Grands Crus certainly would have beaten her imo.

.

:eek:

NaiveMelodies

andyman wrote: »

"Fault" might be the wrong word, but there's a reason why she only races twice a year

The whole premise behind why 'Super Mares' are a rarity is why she only races twice a year.
Machines they are not.

Gringo180

tipster wrote: »

:eek:

Its not that that shocking. The 2 mentioned horses are 10 and 12 lbs superior than any animal she has ever faced.

faoile@n

Quevega is a very fragile racehorse and it is a testament to Willie Mullins that she is even able to race at all let alone win races at the two biggest festivals of the year.

The reason Quevega hasn't run in the World hurdle is because she's normally only 70% fit in March. The training routine that Willie has followed her is a gentle approach but its clear to see that it has paid dividends over the years.

Quevega destroyed Reve De Sivola last year who had won 2 G1's last year and has followed up with another 2 this year. To crab the form is that race is ridiculous :eek:

Quevega has also beat Mourad, Voler La Vedette and Zaidpour who are all G1 winners.

While I would love to see Quevega take on the Bucks you can't fault connections for campaigning her with her best interest in mind.

Fantastic racehorse.

CSSource God

Quevega in Punchestown and Quevega taken today! Needs to lose some weight!

carpothepunk

She is some big unit, isn't she?