Connacht vs Leinster, Sportsgrounds Sat 4th Jan, 19.15 on TG4

durkadurka

15: Rob Kearney
14: Zane Kirchner
13: Brian O'Driscoll
12: Gordon D'Arcy
11: Luke Fitzgerald
10: Ian Madigan
9: Eoin Reddan
1: Jack McGrath
2: Sean Cronin
3: Martin Moore
4: Devin Toner
5: Tom Denton
6: Rhys Ruddock
7: Jordi Murphy
8: Jamie Heaslip CAPTAIN

REPLACEMENTS:
16: Aaron Dundon
17: Jack O'Connell
18: Mike Ross
19: Mike McCarthy
20: Dominic Ryan
21: Isaac Boss
22: Jimmy Gopperth
23: Dave Kearney




Connacht team:

15. Darragh Leader
14. Fionn Carr
13. Robbie Henshaw
12. Eoin Griffin
11. Matt Healy
10. Jack Carty
9. Kieran Marmion

1. Brett Wilkinson
2. Jason Harris-Wright
3. Nathan White
4. Mick Kearney
5. Craig Clarke (captain)
6. Andrew Browne
7. John Muldoon
8. Eoin McKeon



Replacements:

16. Dave Heffernan
17. Denis Buckley
18. Rodney Ah You
19. Michael Swift
20. George Naoupu
21. Paul O’Donohoe
22. Dan Parks
23. Tiernan O’Halloran



REFEREE: George Clancy (IRFU), ASSISTANT REFEREES: Leo Colgan, Ollie Hodges (both IRFU) CITING COMMISSIONER: Denis Templeton (IRFU) TMO: Jude Quinn (IRFU)


Good leinster team there - hoping for a win although the weather might be a massive factor here. Hopefully we can atone for last year's disaster...
Please no injuries.

thomond2006

Carty starting eh, ouncer will be delighted! Big match for him, is this his starting debut?

9-15 pretty much first choice for Leinster, with BOD making a rare appearance in Galway!

wp_rathead

Delighted to see Carty get a start - be big baptism for him

That is a frightening Leinster team on paper though

[Jackass]

I wouldn't get too carried away about the Leinster team, seeing as we've been a bit hit and miss so far this season, but you have to say, that's pretty much as strong a team as we can name, so no excuses here, Leinster should expect to win this one well if we're realistic about being title challengers this season (no disrespect to Connacht), but as I say, the proof will be in the pudding.

Galway is as tough a nut to crack as any though in an inter-pro, we've seen that over recent years, so should be good preparation for Castres away the following weekend.

Prediction: Leinster by 10.

Mr.Applepie

[Jackass] wrote: »

I wouldn't get too carried away about the Leinster team, seeing as we've been a bit hit and miss so far this season, but you have to say, that's pretty much as strong a team as we can name, so no excuses here, Leinster should expect to win this one well if we're realistic about being title challengers this season (no disrespect to Connacht), but as I say, the proof will be in the pudding.

Galway is as tough a nut to crack as any though in an inter-pro, we've seen that over recent years, so should be good preparation for Castres away the following weekend.

Prediction: Leinster by 10.

Bar Denton and Murphy @ 7, that's a team that could easily start any HEC match.

[Jackass]

I agree about Denton, although MOC seems to have a strange obsession with the guy. I'd have him behind Toner, McCarthy, Cullen and Roux, so fifth choice, but MOC has really been taking a long hard look at him it seems. Who am I to argue? He's done ok, but I'm not seeing what MOC is seeing in him so far I have to admit. Although he's young and a good athlete so I'd be delighted to see him hit some form.

Regarding Jordi though, I would say he is now next in line behind O'Brien for the 7 jersey. A similar player to O'Brien in many respects, but he has played most of his rugby at flanker until his stints at 8 with the seniors. It's tough to say who is in line with Jennings, Ruddock, McLoughling, Dippy et al floating around, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Jordi get an extended run at 7 this season in O'Briens absence.

.ak

I think the Jordi selection is a telling one. Without SOB or Healy for the HEC games we're without our biggest carriers. Jordi has impressed with carrying so maybe MOC wants to see him carrying in a HEC backrow before the actual HEC starts again.

.ak

Also very excited to see Kirchner on the wing.

Would've thought Fitzgerald would be rested a bit by now also.

.ak

durkadurka wrote: »

REFEREE: George Clancy (IRFU)

Buer

Fitzgerald essentially missing the first month of the season and then losing his spot up until the autumn internationals means he's still pretty low/average in terms of game time this season. He has played significantly less than Dave Kearney, for example.

If he's looking and feeling sharp and wants to play, let him. He doesn't have that much game time on the field with the first string side this season.

awec

The weather could be a real leveller in Galway - supposed to be horrific.

shuffol

Lots to read into with that Leinster side, Moore must surely be starting in Castres now, that looks like the backrow they'll be going with too. Does anybody know is Bent injured?

.ak

awec wrote: »

The weather could be a real leveller in Galway - supposed to be horrific.

Is it? I'm reading 10% chance of rain, but cold temps at 4c.

.ak

shuffol wrote: »

Lots to read into with that Leinster side, Moore must surely be starting in Castres now, that looks like the backrow they'll be going with too. Does anybody know is Bent injured?

Bent pulled up last week in the warm up so could be more serious than thought. Confident in JOC tho. Really all of our props are in good health. Furlong is even getting some decent game time here and there.

awec

.ak wrote: »

Is it? I'm reading 10% chance of rain, but cold temps at 4c.

Bring a wetsuit - reckon half of Galway is under water at this stage.

Zzippy

.ak wrote: »

We don't like him either!

.ak

Zzippy wrote: »

We don't like him either!

Yeah, not saying he's biased or anything but he''s just a really bad ref imo.

ssaye2

P_1

There's a poster over on the weather forum called MTCranium who's usually pretty spot on when it comes to forecasting. According to his latest post it seems it'll be pretty damn windy and a bit cold but nice and dry. I'd say leave the wetsuit at home but bring extra whiskey. Bookies are pricing Leinster at 2/7 favorites.

[Jackass]

shuffol wrote: »

Lots to read into with that Leinster side, Moore must surely be starting in Castres now, that looks like the backrow they'll be going with too. Does anybody know is Bent injured?

Unsure about the Bent situation, was curious about that myself, but I think Moore has definitely been the better tighthead this season ahead of Ross, in fact, there's been a couple of times now this season where they've switched (and the rest of both packs have remained unchanged) and the scrum did a lot better with Moore on the pitch.

I've maintained for a while that Ross' scrummaging and general play has been a bit below par for top level Heineken Cup / International level, so the sooner Moore is ahead of him the better imo.

I really hope he gets the nod for next weekend too, I think his time has come.

AngeGal

.ak wrote: »

Is it? I'm reading 10% chance of rain, but cold temps at 4c.

It's Galway, who knows? Bucketing down at 8 O'clock and gale force winds, now lighter wind and clear blue sky.

Great to see ten Connacht men in the 22, hard work done by the academy beginning to bear fruit. Although it's a huge ask for Carty and Leader, the optimistic outlook is if they can handle tomorrow they'll handle anything.

Edit - Bucketing down again, blue sky didn't last long!

jamiedav2011

[Jackass] wrote: »

Unsure about the Bent situation, was curious about that myself, but I think Moore has definitely been the better tighthead this season ahead of Ross, in fact, there's been a couple of times now this season where they've switched (and the rest of both packs have remained unchanged) and the scrum did a lot better with Moore on the pitch.

I've maintained for a while that Ross' scrummaging and general play has been a bit below par for top level Heineken Cup / International level, so the sooner Moore is ahead of him the better imo.

I think it's pretty conclusive that Moore is the better option based on this seasons performances so far at least, and I'd definitely have him ahead of Ross at this point. Hope he gets the nod for next weekend too.

You've been banging that drum about Ross for a few years, but that's incorrect.
Moore hasn't yet put in anything like the shift Ross did for the NZ and NH games.

Robbo

.ak wrote: »

Yeah, not saying he's biased or anything but he''s just a really bad ref imo.

As long as both sides agree to have equal rights to storming his dressing room afterwards, it should be grand. That said, he may try and award a Sean Cronin try sometime around Monday afternoon...

Carty at OH is a big call by Lam, one a few have been asking for. Griffin and Henshaw should physically be well able for Darcy/BOD but will need their wits about them. The use of Leader's spudgun boot should be interesting. I'm looking at the forecast and seeing clear with a light wind. Somehow this is hard to believe.

[Jackass]

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

You've been banging that drum about Ross for a few years, but that's incorrect.
Moore hasn't yet put in anything like the shift Ross did for the NZ and NH games.

I wouldn't say I've been banging that drum, but definitely I don't think Ross could be considered a top class scrummager or loose play tight head and hasn't been for a while.

That's not to say he's not a very useful player to have, but I think we could do a lot better and I think Moore at very least can match him in his work rate around the park, but in terms of the scrum, I have absolutely no doubt that Moore is the better player.

I think that will be shown over the course of the next few months too.

jamiedav2011

[Jackass] wrote: »

I wouldn't say I've been banging that drum, but definitely I don't think Ross could be considered a top class scrummager or loose play tight head and hasn't been for a while.

That's not to say he's not a very useful player to have, but I think we could do a lot better and I think Moore at very least can match him in his work rate around the park, but in terms of the scrum, I have absolutely no doubt that Moore is the better player.

I think that will be shown over the course of the next few months too.

Ross has been by far and away the best TH Ireland and Leinster have had for 3-4 years now. Not top class, but we didn't have anyone 'a lot better', or nearly as good.

Moore is getting close, maybe he'll push, maybe not.

But to write off Ross based on non-existent analysis of his performances this year is disingenuous.

.ak

P_1 wrote: »

There's a poster over on the weather forum called MTCranium who's usually pretty spot on when it comes to forecasting. According to his latest post it seems it'll be pretty damn windy and a bit cold but nice and dry. I'd say leave the wetsuit at home but bring extra whiskey. Bookies are pricing Leinster at 2/7 favorites.

MTCranium's posts are as good as using a time machine to find out what the weather is like.

Tox56

Ross has been incredibly inconsistent this year, he has put in some great shifts, but at other times he has been folding like a deck chair in the scrum. I really can't explain it, maybe it's age or something but he definitely isn't as reliable as he once was. Moore isn't up to Ross's best level yet, but he has the potential to be better than Ross ever was imo, he does need tough examinations like Castres to get there. I don't think he's ever been brutally exposed like Healy was as a youngster, and like Healy he is only going to improve

gally74

well done to Lab, the team most people have been looking for bar heenan being available,

eyeball kid

Wow, thats a pretty impressive line up for Leinster. On paper they should win but its against Connacht in Galway, so there's always a bit of hope. Big call by Lam with Carty. I have to be honest, I've never seen him play before so don't know what to expect with him.

Also, will this probably be BOD's last game at the Sportsground? I'm sure he'll get a good reaction from the crowd (unless he runs in a hatrick).

former legend

Tox56 wrote: »

Ross has been incredibly inconsistent this year, he has put in some great shifts, but at other times he has been folding like a deck chair in the scrum. I really can't explain it, maybe it's age or something but he definitely isn't as reliable as he once was. Moore isn't up to Ross's best level yet, but he has the potential to be better than Ross ever was imo, he does need tough examinations like Castres to get there. I don't think he's ever been brutally exposed like Healy was as a youngster, and like Healy he is only going to improve

I think Ross' major problems this season were in the early games, perhaps it just took him longer to react to the changes in the laws?

Moore is the future but with so much hinging on the Castres game, I'd pick Ross every time.

former legend

eyeball kid wrote: »

Also, will this probably be BOD's last game at the Sportsground? I'm sure he'll get a good reaction from the crowd (unless he runs in a hatrick).

Barring a situation in which Connacht host Leinster in a Pro12 playoff, yes.

Tox56

former legend wrote: »

I think Ross' major problems this season were in the early games, perhaps it just took him longer to react to the changes in the laws?

Moore is the future but with so much hinging on the Castres game, I'd pick Ross every time.

He was under a lot of pressure last week too

PlayerTrader13

former legend wrote: »

I think Ross' major problems this season were in the early games, perhaps it just took him longer to react to the changes in the laws?

Moore is the future but with so much hinging on the Castres game, I'd pick Ross every time.

i'd pick Moore every time..

eyeball kid

former legend wrote: »

Barring a situation in which Connacht host Leinster in a Pro12 playoff, yes.

We'll have to aim for that instead of a home quarter final in the HC then.

Thanos

Looks a strong Leinster team on paper and looks to be give most of the HC starters a go together.

Nice to see Dom Ryan rewarded with a place on the bench after his recent outings.

[Jackass]

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Ross has been by far and away the best TH Ireland and Leinster have had for 3-4 years now. Not top class, but we didn't have anyone 'a lot better', or nearly as good.

Moore is getting close, maybe he'll push, maybe not.

But to write off Ross based on non-existent analysis of his performances this year is disingenuous.

I think you're acknowledging my point whilst missing it at the same time.

I'm not suggesting there was anyone better than Ross, but just because he's been the best option for the last number of years doesn't make him a great player.

As for non-existent analysis, most recently if you want examples, the best one that can be given is the Scarlets game, I suggest you watch that again and see the difference in the scrum when Moore was on versus when Ross was on (and they directly subbed for blood iirc, but there were no other changes on either side), the difference in the scrum was not just noticeable, it was dramatic.

Another example, all be it less dramatic but the exact same scenario was another direct swap between Moore and Ross in the Ulster game, again, no changes on either side except for Ross and Moore changing over, and again, a noticeable strength when Moore was on.

He may already have overtaken Ross, we'll know next weekend. He's starting ahead of him this weekend and may well do next weekend, so I don't think I'm the only one who's picking up on the performances, maybe you just haven't being paying attention to it, but "non-existent analysis" is disingenuous and border line arguing for the sake of it.

jamiedav2011

[Jackass] wrote: »

I think you're acknowledging my point whilst missing it at the same time.

I'm not suggesting there was anyone better than Ross, but just because he's been the best option for the last number of years doesn't make him a great player.

As for non-existent analysis, most recently if you want examples, the best one that can be given is the Scarlets game, I suggest you watch that again and see the difference in the scrum when Moore was on versus when Ross was on (and they directly subbed for blood iirc, but there were no other changes on either side), the difference in the scrum was not just noticeable, it was dramatic.

Another example, all be it less dramatic but the exact same scenario was another direct swap between Moore and Ross in the Ulster game, again, no changes on either side except for Ross and Moore changing over, and again, a noticeable strength when Moore was on.

He may already have overtaken Ross, we'll know next weekend. He's starting ahead of him this weekend and may well do next weekend, so I don't think I'm the only one who's picking up on the performances, maybe you just haven't being paying attention to it, but "non-existent analysis" is disingenuous and border line arguing for the sake of it.

Jackass, your direct quote was

I've maintained for a while that Ross' scrummaging and general play has been a bit below par for top level Heineken Cup / International level, so the sooner Moore is ahead of him the better imo.

I think it's pretty conclusive that Moore is the better option based on this seasons performances so far at least.

I'm not disputing Moore is having a great season and could overtake Ross, as I've said, but the above is just not true based on the evidence presented.

Funk It

Just wondering if anyone knows whether there are still tickets available for the game at all?

Bunch of us have been talking about going all week, but nobody has thought about sorting tickets yet

Zzippy

Funk It wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone knows whether there are still tickets available for the game at all?

Bunch of us have been talking about going all week, but nobody has thought about sorting tickets yet

Pretty sure there are, I picked up tickets for the main stand yesterday and there were plenty left, you'll def get tickets for either end if those are gone.

Any of our Leinster posters coming over for the game? Opportunity for a boards Connacht-Leinster pint beforehand...

The Lost Sheep

Zzippy wrote: »

Pretty sure there are, I picked up tickets for the main stand yesterday and there were plenty left, you'll def get tickets for either end if those are gone.

Any of our Leinster posters coming over for the game? Opportunity for a boards Connacht-Leinster pint beforehand...

Can a Munster fan who is likely to be at game tag along?
Am in Galway to do a ref course tomorrow and may stay up to go to game.

Cant see anything other than a Leinster win by 7+ but with the way the weather has been in Galway the past few days who knows what way game could go

Zzippy

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Can a Munster fan who is likely to be at game tag along?
Am in Galway to do a ref course tomorrow and may stay up to go to game.

Cant see anything other than a Leinster win by 7+ but with the way the weather has been in Galway the past few days who knows what way game could go

Depends who you're cheering for!

Funk It

Zzippy wrote: »

Pretty sure there are, I picked up tickets for the main stand yesterday and there were plenty left, you'll def get tickets for either end if those are gone.

Any of our Leinster posters coming over for the game? Opportunity for a boards Connacht-Leinster pint beforehand...

Cheers, thought that might be the case alright.
Also, I'm sure we are up for some pints, everyone going to O'Connells is it?

.ak

I'd love to be going to this but my away game this year was Edinburgh. Broke as a joke.

Swiwi.

P_1 wrote: »

There's a poster over on the weather forum called MTCranium who's usually pretty spot on when it comes to forecasting. According to his latest post it seems it'll be pretty damn windy and a bit cold but nice and dry. I'd say leave the wetsuit at home but bring extra whiskey. Bookies are pricing Leinster at 2/7 favorites.

There's a weather forum?!

Glass Prison 1214

Swiwi. wrote: »

There's a weather forum?!

Boards is great, it has forums on everything!

Swiwi.

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

Boards is great, it has forums on everything!

Yeah, I never post elsewhere on the forum, but I've found the odd bit of helpful advice, liked fixed price taxis to airport etc. It's a hive of activity!

P_1

.ak wrote: »

I'd love to be going to this but my away game this year was Edinburgh. Broke as a joke.

Technically wasn't that last year? :P

Jedwardian

On the merits of Moore versus Ross, I can see arguments in favour of each player. For today's game, I'd go with Moore. Next weekend against Castres, I'd pick Ross.

At the start of the season, Ross would have been my pick every time. It's fair to say that his performances aren't as good this season as they were 12 months ago. He was never a dominant scrummager but always more that gave his own and was rarely beaten. This season he has struggled a bit more than in the past but Leinster haven't especially struggled with him on the field.

Moore has been good but I think given Ireland's lack of strong tighthead options, people are over-estimating his contribution thus far since they want to see him succeed. Let's not forget that Castres got the better of him a few months ago. I'm delighted to see that he's being given a chance to learn on the job and would give him the bulk of minutes in the Pro 12 and have no fear giving him 20-25 minutes each game in the Heineken Cup, similar to how Nathan White, Heinke van der Merwe and in a different position, Isaac Boss have been used.

Next season Moore and Ross should be an even competition but right now, it's Ross' experience in the big games which wins out for me. Moore is still quite green but is learning and improving fast.

Later today I'd like to see Leinster get after Jack Carty. See what he's made of. I'll be interested to see how Jordi Muphy is used. Really hope he goes well because he's taken every chance he's been presented with so far.

Tox56

Jedwardian wrote: »

Moore has been good but I think given Ireland's lack of strong tighthead options, people are over-estimating his contribution thus far since they want to see him succeed. Let's not forget that Castres got the better of him a few months ago.

That's debateable. I've seen that game more than once, and although there are definitely scrums where Castres got the upper hand, there were also times when Leinster did the same. The first completed scrum of the match was a Leinster penalty. You also have to remember Castres brought on a completely new loosehead 20 or so minutes into the game. All things considered I thought he did very well, I was expecting it to be a bridge too far before the game but I came out of it thinking he proved me wrong.

blackdog1

I don't care who starts . I have confidence in both Moore and Ross, thats something we haven't had since Nathan white left. We need them both. On the starting issue , I would Start the one who has the least impact off the bench and spring the other at 50-55. Im not worried about th we have 2 quality players. Moore won player of the month and ross was our best forward against Northampton at the aviva. Im more worried about 2nd row and centres to be honest.

[Jackass]

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Jackass, your direct quote was



I'm not disputing Moore is having a great season and could overtake Ross, as I've said, but the above is just not true based on the evidence presented.

??

Yes, that is a direct quote... but you are saying so as though it's supposed to somehow contradict anything I've said so far... what has that got to do with your point? I obviously was saying Moore is the better option this season, that's how this whole conversation started, and I never said there was anyone better than Ross over the last few years, but that doesn't mean he was great. I have long maintained he was a pretty average tight head in my book. (at least by international standards - a decent scrummager, not great, and doesn't offer a massive amount around the park - not that he doesn't have decent work rate, but nothing exceptional)

I've presented evidence, given two examples where Moore was the better player (in my opinion at least) when directly rotating with Ross from just the last few weeks, what evidence have you presented? You haven't even commented on the performances I mentioned... Would you agree that Moore looked by far the better scrummager in those games? I think it's hard not to, so on what basis are you saying Ross should still be ahead of him?