[Superthread] Mayweather vs Pacman **NO STREAMING REQUESTS**

Talib Fiasco

If I wanna admire pure boxing brilliance I'll take Rigo and Lara over Floyd any day. Floyd of the last few years has an ugly, negative side in his style. The Floyd of old was a joy to watch and he still could do that if he so wishes but more luck to him, he hasn't needed to.

walshb

Andrew76 wrote: »

Genuinely interested in hearing your take on Manny's performance? I wanted Floyd to win from the outset and expected him to do only what was needed, but I was dissappointed with the lack of pressure from Pacquiao. Surely he knew Floyd would be elusive and he'd have to stay on him a lot. Not sure if that was all down to Mayweather, or Manny's alledged shoulder injury, or maybe his work rate isn't what it used to be? (I haven't seen his last few fights.)

In a nutshell Manny waited too long during most of the standoffs, allowing Floyd to jab or right cross and then move off. Now, many of the jabs and right crosses weren't really of substance, but they kept taking the play away from Manny. He wasn't letting the hands go enough, and that is because of what I thought, range and distance, and the possible fear of being heavily countered. Manny hasn't the best jab, but last night it wasn't all that bad, but he didn't use it near enough.

Overall I actually though Manny did better than I had expected. I thought Floyd could completely shut him down and hurt him. He didn't, and Manny defended quite well. His reaction times for a lot of the fight were excellent.

walshb

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

If I wanna admire pure boxing brilliance I'll take Rigo and Lara over Floyd any day. Floyd of the last few years has an ugly, negative side in his style. The Floyd of old was a joy to watch and he still could do that if he so wishes but more luck to him, he hasn't needed to.

Spot on. Lomachenko, for example, is for me a far more complete boxer. Far more. P4P I am not rating Floyd number 1. His offense is just not good enough to be considered the best. I'd put GGG and Ward as more complete too. Add in Kovalev!

I am not so sure that Floyd could be the Floyd of old. He is just not letting the hands go with the same fluidity as from years gone by. Very disjointed offense.

nacho libre

Manny is now blaming an injury for his loss. Perhaps that was God's real plan for him. A lot of fighters carry injuries into fights and keep quiet about it. Where is his well documented humility? Canelo accepted that Mayweather was just too good for him.
Pacman had a plan, but it didn't work, if he tried to alter his plan, as other suggest, he would have lost by an even wider margin.
I can see where others are coming from about Mayweather, they enjoy a good toe to toe bout, i enjoy a good old toe to toe, but i can also appreciate a boxing clinic being demonstrated, whereby the basic concept of boxing, hitting and not being hit, is displayed masterfully. I just hope Mayweather sticks to his word about packing it in and doesn't become another Roy Jones.

Talib Fiasco

walshb wrote: »

Spot on. Lomachenko, for example, is for me a far more complete boxer. Far more. P4P I am not rating Floyd number 1. His offense is just not good enough to be considered the best. I'd put GGG and Ward as more complete too. Add in Kovalev!

I am not so sure that Floyd could be the Floyd of old. He is just not letting the hands go with the same fluidity as from years gone by. Very disjointed offense.

Loma is a joy to watch...has it all. Ward too is a great pick. As soon as he returns I'll place him back at number 2 p4p along with Roman Gonzalez who I hope gets some decent exposure on his HBO debut. I still cannot take Floyd off number 1 but I am hoping September is his last fight.

walshb

nacho libre wrote: »

I just hope Mayweather sticks to his word about packing it in and doesn't become another Roy Jones.

He never was a Roy Jones. And he never will be. Floyd will get out safe! Jones was always that bit better at peak.

nacho libre

walshb wrote: »

I am not so sure that Floyd could be the Floyd of old. He is just not letting the hands go with the same fluidity as from years gone by. Very disjointed offense.

he still has wonderful head movement and leg speed- even if its not quite as good as it was, perhaps he's not letting his hands go as much because they are not 100 per cent at this stage of his career?

Andrew76

walshb wrote: »

In a nutshell Manny waited too long during most of the standoffs, allowing Floyd to jab or right cross and then move off. Now, many of the jabs and right crosses weren't really of substance, but they kept taking the play away from Manny. He wasn't letting the hands go enough, and that is because of what I thought, range and distance, and the possible fear of being heavily countered. Manny hasn't the best jab, but last night it wasn't all that bad, but he didn't use it near enough.

Overall I actually though Manny did better than I had expected. I thought Floyd could completely shut him down and hurt him. He didn't, and Manny defended quite well. His reaction times for a lot of the fight were excellent.

Cheers for that. I do find it frustrating Floyd doesn't show us what he really has (or had) in his locker, I get the impression he could have ended more fights earlier if he chose to.

Like a previous poster, I wouldn't be a hardcore fan myself and watched more fights during the 90's than these days, but would it be a fair to say Floyd has good deal in common with Pernell Whitaker? Sweat Pea was known for his focus of defense first?

nacho libre

walshb wrote: »

He never was a Roy Jones. And he never will be. Floyd will get out safe! Jones was always that bit better at peak.

I hope so. I'm not convinced he is tired of boxing just yet, and he has previously gone back on his word. We'll have to agree to disagree on who was better.

titan18

Chrissybhoy wrote:

But it's anyone he faces now he makes them look ordinary and for that he should be given credit and manny isn't ordinary. I'd love to see him go really take it his foe in second half of the fight when he's comfortable he threatens to but then holds back and I said before maybe it's the trouble he's had with his hands last 8/9 years. All the crap on here he was running dodging over exaggerated noting about the quality right hands he landed with ease last night and I believe he hurt manny with them hence manny never let go he was afraid of them punches

Pacqiauo may not be ordinary but he ain't the fighter he was 3 - 4 years ago when Mayweather refused to fight him. Not like he'll fight him, but Mayweather doesn't make Golovkin look ordinary, and doubt he'd fight Canelo again as he continues to improve. He'll more than likely duck Thurman too and take a safe fight like Khan

Chrissybhoy

titan18 wrote: »

Pacqiauo may not be ordinary but he ain't the fighter he was 3 - 4 years ago when Mayweather refused to fight him. Not like he'll fight him, but Mayweather doesn't make Golovkin look ordinary, and doubt he'd fight Canelo again as he continues to improve. He'll more than likely duck Thurman too and take a safe fight like Khan

Same old same old

walshb

titan18 wrote: »

Pacqiauo may not be ordinary but he ain't the fighter he was 3 - 4 years ago when Mayweather refused to fight him. Not like he'll fight him, but Mayweather doesn't make Golovkin look ordinary, and doubt he'd fight Canelo again as he continues to improve. He'll more than likely duck Thurman too and take a safe fight like Khan

Khan is far from a safe fight IMO. Range and distance and size were always Manny's problems. Take them 3 away and you have Khan in there. Floyd sure could find a way to beat Khan, but right now I feel Khan is a very risky fight.

walshb

Who does he fight in September? It's his last fight. It has to sell. I can't think of any decent names apart from Khan.

Talib Fiasco

walshb wrote: »

Who does he fight in September? It's his last fight. It has to sell. I can't think of any decent names apart from Khan.

Khan won't fight in September due to Ramadan duties. Danny Garcia is a an obvious pick. Easy work for Floyd. Danny is slow and one dimensional, he's undefeated, young, kingpin of 140 and is a potential future PPV and p4p star. Either him or a Cotto rematch is the only fight out there I feel

Bubolor

Mayweather Brook would be interesting. I would have said they could unify all the belts but Mayweather is giving up his belts on Monday.

walshb

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Khan won't fight in September due to Ramadan duties. Danny Garcia is a an obvious pick. Easy work for Floyd. Danny is slow and one dimensional, he's undefeated, young, kingpin of 140 and is a potential future PPV and p4p star. Either him or a Cotto rematch is the only fight out there I feel

Khan expects Floyd to hang on till next May. Spanner. He doesn't deserve a sniff of the fight if he is thinking this.

Danny Garcia would be a mismatch I think. Floyd's 6 fight deal wasn't all that great for me.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Chrissybhoy

I'd like to see kell brook get the fight he's ahead of khan anyway

titan18

walshb wrote:

Who does he fight in September? It's his last fight. It has to sell. I can't think of any decent names apart from Khan.

Won't fight him but Thurman. Young, up and coming, American. Too dangerous though IMO. Likewise a fight at 154 with Golovkin, and Crawford won't happen either. It's Khan, Garcia or a Cotton rematch, not one of whom will beat him.

Talib Fiasco

walshb wrote: »

Khan expects Floyd to hang on till next May. Spanner. He doesn't deserve a sniff of the fight if he is thinking this.

Danny Garcia would be a mismatch I think. Floyd's 6 fight deal wasn't all that great for me.

Yep Khan got too big headed...wouldn't surprise me if Brook ignores a fight him now. He may well do so if the Floyd vacates and someone like Maidana ends up with a belt.

Yeah Floyd would hammer Garcia. That's why I think it'll happen. Danny can no longer make 140 any more and let's face it he's hanging onto his 0 for dear life...he might as well cash out on it against the best man to give him a massive pay day.

Talib Fiasco

Chrissybhoy wrote: »

I'd like to see kell brook get the fight he's ahead of khan anyway

I think Brook will fight Marquez after Gavin and then Bradley or Rios if he beats Marquez. Brook isn't big enough for Floyd for his last fight.

Strongbow10

walshb wrote: »

Who does he fight in September? It's his last fight. It has to sell. I can't think of any decent names apart from Khan.

He will surely fight Cotto again and retire calling himself the lineal middleweight champ.

Oh and at a catch weight of course. The narrative was set last night after the first round. When it was apparent Manny wasn't making it his kind of fight the plaudits started flooding his way, there was nothing Manny could do to counteract this brilliance, he couldn't launch his offence as he would like etc.....

When it became Mayweathers kind of fight there was only going to be one winner even though Manny didn't do badly or indeed take any punishment either. Mayweather clearly won the fight but I do think his reputation means he wins a lot of rounds simply by making the other fighter miss regularly.

As you pointed out earlier, it's hard to have him down as one of the greatest of all time with such a limited offence in the last 5-10 years.

Sky were hilarious, I think the memo was to drill it home to the casual fans that this was one of the greatest performances they would ever see, if Manny had come any near fighting his fight they would have lauded him as an offensive genius.

Froch took the biscuit, seemed mesmerised that you can actually avoid getting hit, he was dismissive of Andre Ward for seemingly not wanting to get hit, it wasn't boxing I believe he said . He certainly changed his tune .

Big Ears

walshb wrote: »

Who does he fight in September? It's his last fight. It has to sell. I can't think of any decent names apart from Khan.

I'd be shocked if it's not Danny Garcia. An extremely easy fight for Floyd, and very easy fight to sell to the casual (undefeated 140 lb champion etc). Not so much to the hardcore fns, but who cares about them....those suckers will buy anyway !

Personally I'd much rather Khan or Brook. I''d love Golovkin or Lara, but those fights will never happen even if Floyd was to sign another 6 fight deal.


Brook will most likely face Bam Bam Rios after he destroys Gavin.


Edit: actually Cotto fight has a reasonable chance too, but I'd say 70% Danny, 25% Cotto, 5% someone else.
With that said I think Geale might put a spoiler on the Cotto fight happening.

MisterAnarchy

Raf32 wrote: »

The state of boxing at the moment. No surprise that the serial ducker wins a fight he should. Shame because it would have been some fight a few years back.

The last 3 PPV's I have seen have really dented my belief in modern boxing.
Haye vs that giant guy Valuev ,Haye vs Klitschko and the fight last night.
3 awful fights ,with hardly a meaningful punch landed and guys coming out without a scratch.

Chris Eubank was on tv during the week reminiscing about his old fights ,that man and Nigel Benn could box and their fights were always interesting.

walshb

I watched Sky's recap of the fight through highlight rds. Jeez, the offense they showed from Floyd was paltry. Usually when they pick the highlights you see clean and clear landed shots. Very few in the highlighted rds they showed. No wonder Manny came out without a scratch, and thinking he won. A lot of boxers in close fights say they won, and some in even fights that they got hammered in. Manny saying he won last night is not at all surprising or lacking in sportsmanship.

Bubolor

Strongbow10 wrote: »

He will surely fight Cotto again and retire calling himself the lineal middleweight champ.

Oh and at a catch weight of course. The narrative was set last night after the first round. When it was apparent Manny wasn't making it his kind of fight the plaudits started flooding his way, there was nothing Manny could do to counteract this brilliance, he couldn't launch his offence as he would like etc.....

When it became Mayweathers kind of fight there was only going to be one winner even though Manny didn't do badly or indeed take any punishment either. Mayweather clearly won the fight but I do think his reputation means he wins a lot of rounds simply by making the other fighter miss regularly.

As you pointed out earlier, it's hard to have him down as one of the greatest of all time with such a limited offence in the last 5-10 years.

Sky were hilarious, I think the memo was to drill it home to the casual fans that this was one of the greatest performances they would ever see, if Manny had come any near fighting his fight they would have lauded him as an offensive genius.

Froch took the biscuit, seemed mesmerised that you can actually avoid getting hit, he was dismissive of Andre Ward for seemingly not wanting to get hit, it wasn't boxing I believe he said . He certainly changed his tune .

What were Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard doing at 38? Being destroyed. Mayweather is an all time great, what he has done throughout his entire career merits his place in the history books.

walshb

Bubolor wrote: »

What were Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard doing at 38? Being destroyed. Mayweather is an all time great, what he has done throughout his entire career merits his place in the history books.

Sorry, that is a ridiculous analogy to make.

Bubolor

walshb wrote: »

Sorry, that is a ridiculous analogy to make.

People are basing their opinion of how good Mayweather will be regarded in the history books based on performances in his late thirties, that's ridiculous. Mayweather in his prime was sublime defensively and offensively.

Chrissybhoy

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

I think Brook will fight Marquez after Gavin and then Bradley or Rios if he beats Marquez. Brook isn't big enough for Floyd for his last fight.

That's true. I think Brook beats all of the above too

Talib Fiasco

Chrissybhoy wrote: »

That's true. I think Brook beats all of the above too

I think he could probably outbox Marquez cleverly but himself and Bradley would be a very very good fight. Very tough one to call. I think Bradders is a shadow of the man before he fought Ruslan, really think it took a lot of out of him physically and mentally but he's still the best WW not named Floyd or Manny in my eyes until a fight with Brook. I read somewhere this morning that someone expects Gavin to beat Brook. I will never watch Boxing again if that happens.