Is endurance exercise really good for us?

Local-womanizer

A lot of older healthy people are the way they are through clean diets and long days doing heavy work.

The endurance was there and still is, it's just we look for it in other places nowadays.

And I know plenty who have never done a days running and who have multiple health issues.

Alf Veedersane

Chefrio wrote: »

Too much cardio damages your body, just look at the state of most long distance runners compared to 100m sprinters.

So, it has nothing to do with the huge difference in the amount of weight training sprinters and long distance runners do?

Right.

Femme_Fatale

burnhardlanger wrote: »

My 2c

The point of endurance training is to continually develop the aerobic system.

As a runner, trying to run aerobically is initially extremely slow and frustrating but the adage goes that you must go slow to go/get fast, which implies that the more developed the aerobic system (which takes time and patience) then the faster you can go at the same heart rate.

For example, someone running strictly at a set heart rate (e.g. at between 140 and 150 beats per minute), and is churning out 10 minute miles, should after a period be able to maintain a faster mile pace within the same heart rate zone months later.

The difficulty however is due to the extremely frustrating and slow initial weeks, runners get pissed off and start running 'faster' again because the wisdom dictates that if there is no pain, then there won't be much gain which for endurance sports is a nonsense. High Intensity workouts have their place and their importance but doing them straight away without a solidly developed aerobic base is a recipe for problems down the line particularly if someone is a couch potato who reads about high intensity training and starts doing that immediately.

Yeh, it's like when people who are unfit do one high-intensity class and are crippled for the week. Seems fairly pointless IMO. Would make more sense surely to do four or five stints of moderate exercise that pushes you to a point, but won't have you aching for days. After a while, you can build it up into something more calorie-burning.

OnTheCouch

I do hear a lot about the benefits of high-intensity activity all right. I saw a programme last year or the year before in which some professor claimed that around five minutes of extremely intense exercise three times a week was all that was required for the average person to stay in shape. I found it quite interesting, whether this is true or not is another matter.

Many of my friends are quite into running, including a couple who are seriously intense, putting in considerable mileage every week. You sometimes wonder what sort of damage they are doing long-term to their joints. I myself stopped running two years ago, as after a few extremely gruelling months of training, my knees started to feel quite delicate and I did not want to have really bad knee issues when I was older.

So now I only tend to do training on grass or on the treadmill, along with a few pool sessions from time to time. Plus weight training of course. I do believe there is a lot of evidence that huge amounts of endurance training is quite detrimental to the body in the long-term.

ScumLord

OnTheCouch wrote: »

You sometimes wonder what sort of damage they are doing long-term to their joints. I myself stopped running two years ago, as after a few extremely gruelling months of training, my knees started to feel quite delicate and I did not want to have really bad knee issues when I was older.

I think some of those injuries may be down to the possibility that we're running incorrectly compared to our ancient ancestors.

Apparently they wouldn't run on their heal like we would today, since we've started using shoes we're able to plant our heal when we should be running on our toes. When you run on your toes you've got the added shock absorption of the ankle and you run more upright relieving back strain.

drquirky

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

High Intensity Interval Training is better than steady pace training, particularly on a bike or rower.

Jogging on hard surfaces for prolonged distances at heavy body weight is a recipe for cortisol releasing, joint destroying disaster.

Untrue

Pen.Island

mikemac1 wrote: »

You've never spent a day on a farm with a border collie as your sheepdog

I have in fact. I'm not talking about a farmer being able to outlast a sheepdog. I'm talking about an endurance runner outlasting any animal.

ScumLord

Pen.Island wrote: »

I have in fact. I'm not talking about a farmer being able to outlast a sheepdog. I'm talking about an endurance runner outlasting any animal.

known as persistence hunting. Most animals can't deal with body heat as well as humans, so if we follow them they'll eventually die on heat exhaustion long before a human would.

--Kaiser--

Persistence hunting isn't just running after an animal til it dies. It's a combination of running, walking and tracking (which is very important as everything can outrun us short term). Eventually the animal dies of heat exhaustion. I think our ability to dissipate heat efficiently and our tracking ability are far more important than our running ability - bipedal locomotion is only really efficient for walking long distances across flat terrain

burnhardlanger

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Persistence hunting isn't just running after an animal til it dies. It's a combination of running, walking and tracking (which is very important as everything can outrun us short term). Eventually the animal dies of heat exhaustion. I think our ability to dissipate heat efficiently and our tracking ability are far more important than our running ability - bipedal locomotion is only really efficient for walking long distances across flat terrain

There is also a theory that animal tracking was the first time humans utilised 'science' i.e. forming opinions based on observations and interpeting animal tracks in order to determine an animals behavior.

raze_them_all_

A 65 year old has the same endurance as himself at 19 years old. Endurance training is not bad once you dont decide at 50 and 20 stone to go nuts. Like any muscle your heart needs to be constantly worked, not just every now and then

Meangadh

Wibbs wrote: »

Personally I'd avoid soy like the plague. Asians have been eating it for over two thousand years, but Irish people say have been exposed to it for less than a generation. Add in it's oestrogen type effects and no way Hosé.

That's really interesting- my friend had breast cancer at 29 and is now really really careful with what she eats and drinks (although she never had weight or health issues prior to this- she's very slim and fairly fit- but I suppose that scare will make you extra careful anyway). But anyway, doctors told her to avoid cow's milk because of hormones in it and to use alternatives like soya milk. And loads of other people I know use it just to avoid dairy products in general. But surely if oestrogen levels are high in it then switching to it (particularly if you're using it to avoid hormones) is a bad idea?

Sorry if that's a bit OT- as regards exercise if you can maintain a decent level of fitness and a healthy weight then I wouldn't be really into the whole endurance thing, just not for me. I do know some people with joint issues due to running long distances regularly- but that's only a small number and I'd imagine their health has benefitted in other ways from years of keeping fit.

ScumLord

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Eventually the animal dies of heat exhaustion. I think our ability to dissipate heat efficiently and our tracking ability are far more important than our running ability - bipedal locomotion is only really efficient for walking long distances across flat terrain

We are also very efficient runners. The BBC did a history of humans where they brought runners into a lab and found that the human spine has a number of subtle adaptations to make us highly efficient runners and they went on to describe the human as a running animal.

While we don't have the burst speed of a four legged animal if contact with just about any other animal goes past the five minute mark the conflict starts to go very much in our favour, we're only getting warmed up at that point.

At the other extreme from us you have the likes of the Cheetah that has massive speed only for a few seconds. Avoid a cheetahs one attempt at a take down and it's completely gassed and even vulnerable.

raze_them_all_

ScumLord wrote: »

We are also very efficient runners. The BBC did a history of humans where they brought runners into a lab and found that the human spine has a number of subtle adaptations to make us highly efficient runners and they went on to describe the human as a running animal.

While we don't have the burst speed of a four legged animal if contact with just about any other animal goes past the five minute mark the conflict starts to go very much in our favour, we're only getting warmed up at that point.

At the other extreme from us you have the likes of the Cheetah that has massive speed only for a few seconds. Avoid a cheetahs one attempt at a take down and it's completely gassed and even vulnerable.

Sweating and our lung set up helps as well

ScumLord

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Sweating and our lung set up helps as well

Yes, I was quite impressed with a features of the human animal as described by the show. We always tend to think of ourselves as weak compared to top predators and there seems to be an assumption that we'd be lost without our tools and weapons but we forget we developed without all these things and had to rely on our body as much as any other animal did. The human body is a unique and very capable set up that has a whole raft of incredible advantages over most other animals. We're by no means weak, or outclassed by any other animal. We truly deserve our place at the top.

burnhardlanger

Might be of interest.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Human_Running_Adaptations.png

--Kaiser--

ScumLord wrote: »

We are also very efficient runners. The BBC did a history of humans where they brought runners into a lab and found that the human spine has a number of subtle adaptations to make us highly efficient runners and they went on to describe the human as a running animal.

While we don't have the burst speed of a four legged animal if contact with just about any other animal goes past the five minute mark the conflict starts to go very much in our favour, we're only getting warmed up at that point.

At the other extreme from us you have the likes of the Cheetah that has massive speed only for a few seconds. Avoid a cheetahs one attempt at a take down and it's completely gassed and even vulnerable.

Gonna have to disagree here, most of the studies I've read seem to indicate that quadrupedal mammals are more efficient runners

http://www.riverapes.com/Papers/Wading%20Paper/Supporting%20Files/model/s5_1_1.html

Although at running speeds humans were found to be much less (about twice as) efficient that a general quadruped, at slower walking, speeds they turn out to be slightly more efficient.

http://books.google.ie/books?id=JtUzCX2aPoIC&pg=PA272&lpg=PA272&dq=efficiency+of+human+bipedal+running&source=bl&ots=kFzhBC8yY5&sig=SikSmpGkywLpY3n1vnEZxKwawX4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EcDGUsnYF8Hg7QbC04CIBQ&ved=0CGQQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=efficiency%20of%20human%20bipedal%20running&f=false

the efficiency of human bipedalism in relation to mammals...at maximum running speed is twice as expensive energetically as estimated for a quadrupedal mammal of the same size

Hence other reasons are postulated for why we became bidepal:
a) slightly more efficient for walking lond distances on flat plains
b) better view of predators in savannah environment
c) better view of sexual organns (I like this one, why we have such big wangs and boobs)

ScumLord

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Gonna have to disagree here, most of the studies I've read seem to indicate that quadrupedal mammals are more efficient runners

http://www.riverapes.com/Papers/Wading%20Paper/Supporting%20Files/model/s5_1_1.html



http://books.google.ie/books?id=JtUzCX2aPoIC&pg=PA272&lpg=PA272&dq=efficiency+of+human+bipedal+running&source=bl&ots=kFzhBC8yY5&sig=SikSmpGkywLpY3n1vnEZxKwawX4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EcDGUsnYF8Hg7QbC04CIBQ&ved=0CGQQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=efficiency%20of%20human%20bipedal%20running&f=false




Hence other reasons are postulated for why we became bidepal:
a) slightly more efficient for walking lond distances on flat plains
b) better view of predators in savannah environment
c) better view of sexual organns (I like this one, why we have such big wangs and boobs)

Ok, I think we're kind of both right. Humans have a more efficient run over great distances.

http://dujs.dartmouth.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/elegance.pdf

They add the fact we can regulate our breathing as needed as another feature. Cheetahs for example have to breath in between strides due to the legs restricting the rib cage.