Be still my beating heart

Ososlo

Wednesday 23 July
Pyramid session 1,2, 3,4,3, 2,1 w/60 sec jog rec

First time doing one of these. This is one of the options on my 'maintenance session' list and having read another boardsie's log this morning about a pyramid session I though t it looked like a bit of fun so decided to give it a whirl. Mine only went to 4 mins tops though so a lot easier obviously.
Planned to get up really early to do this before it got hot but it didn't happen. When you don't sleep great you gotta roll with it when it is good which it was last night. Was going to leave it until tonight when it cooled down a bit but I had the day off and thought I should give it a go despite the heat as running in the heat is one of my weaknesses and this year is all about working on those weaknesses. I hate the heat so much I declined a recent 2 week all expenses paid holiday in France as the temperature would be around 30 degrees and I just can't handle it!!!!

Session: 3.5 miles warmup. I was fair warmed up by then I can tell yiz!!! Hit the Chapelizod road outside the Phoenix Park at 11:45 and it was torture with the sun beaming down on my head and I could feel my skin sizzling under the suncream. Found a nice flat stretch without interruptions and a little bit of shade here and there for the intervals. Brought a bottle of lucozade sport which i sipped on during the intervals. Each sip was like a gift of nectar from the gods and was relished.
Worked at about 5k effort without looking at the watch, so hard but not all-out which I think is the correct way to do these.
Happy enough with the times and hope they'd all be closer to early 7:40s on a cooler day.
7:45, 7:50, 7:48, 7:50, 7:57, 7:50, 7:43
The 4min rep was definitely the toughest as when you're going back down again with 3 and then 2 it's all nearly over so there's an end in sight. I'd like to try to take it up to 5 mins for the next go at thess. When I finished I nearly expired with the heat so sat on a rock for about 2 mins to cool down and get my breath back. Didn't feel sick today after the session which I'm delighted about!!! I think the drink really did the trick today so I'll be bringing one in future. It's a nuisance to carry for the intervals and there was nowhere suitable to put it (amongst the rubbish!) but totally worth carrying on a day like today.
Cooldown few miles were slow and the only way back to the car involved lots of lovely hills in the Park so it was 11 min/miles up through Military Hill with no reprieve from the burning sun. Felt grand at the top and upped the pace a bit back to the car. Felt really good after this.
7.5 miles total
pm: I know I'm not supposed to do doubles on session days but the temptation to get out again was just too much for me to resist I'm afraid. Anyway, I won't be able to run Satiurday as I'm off up North for the weekend so that's my excuse.
Stuck to trails for this and stayed in the shade as much as possible and it worked out well. Thoroughly enjoyable little jog.
3 miles total

10.5 miles daily total
Easy tomorrow and maybe longer run Friday before I head off to Belfast if I can get it done early. Otherwise it'll be Sunday.

Ososlo

Thursday 24 July
35 mins easy w/6 strides
Club night so avoided elbow bashing in my local park and just went down towards Drumcondra instead. Lovely shelter from the trees down on Griffith Ave. Haven't run down there since winter and looking forward to revisiting it during the lovely cold weather again.

Friday 25 July
9 miles w/10 mins at 10k, 3 min rec, and 6 x 45 secs at 5k in second half
Away for a bit over the weekend so doing Sunday's run today instead. Won't be able to run tomorrow and hydration will be minimal over weekend due to lots of driving and not much opportunity of peeing without pissing off lots of other car occupants by having to stop every half hour!

**** me this was HOT HOT HOT! Armed with my life-blood (lucozode sport) I hit the park before 10am which is early for me.
Was really enjoying the easy first 5 miles and kept it lovely and slow due to the dead heat. I could have knocked out 20 easy miles today no problem. However, no marathon training for me so back to business....
10 mins at 10k was ridiculously slow today. Feel like I'm not making any progress in this heat and actually feel I'm losing some speed but I know it's just due to the extra effort levels in the sun. Running with the heart rate monitor last year taught me a lot about how my body reacts to running in heat so I know (hope) these regressions are only temporary.
Struggled to do an 8:20 min/mile for the 10k pace bit which is WAY slower than I know I'm capable of and what I've done in the past but I did put in the effort so I guess that's all that matters.
Didn't feel sick for the faster bits which is great but when I finished the 6 strides I did feel a bit weird and lightheaded and had to come to a complete halt for a minute to get the blood back to my head.
Saw a few ladies wearing crop tops today with one just wearing her bra I think:pac: but great idea in this heat and I actually have a few that I bought last year but didn't have the guts to wear but feck it, it's hot and my abs ain't lookin too bad these days even if I do say so myself:D
Down 2 lbs so on target for 4lb weight loss
Current weight: 119lbs / 8 stone 7
Yearly total (especially for Calvin) 992 miles. I won't be able to get my 1,000 until early next week so knock yourself out beating me this year;)

Calvin Johnson

Ha I thought you may have done it with a long run today!

I was out just after 10 and the heat was very tough. Only did 5 easy miles so fair play for a tough run like that.

PaulieC

Ososlo wrote: »

Saw a few ladies wearing crop tops today with one just wearing her bra I think:pac: but great idea in this heat and I actually have a few that I bought last year but didn't have the guts to wear but feck it, it's hot and my abs ain't lookin too bad these days even if I do say so myself:D

what park is this ?

yaboya1

Ososlo wrote: »

Saw a few ladies wearing crop tops today with one just wearing her bra I think:pac:

I doubt anyone will be ringing Joe Duffy to complain about this :pac::pac:

RedRunner

People are practically going naked along the Clontarf seafront these days runners and sunbathers alike. Makes for an interesting run home from work.:)

Ososlo

Saturday 26 July
No running. Dealing with some real-life stuff and travelling. Life can be sh1t sometimes ...

Sunday 27 July
6 miles easy
Body felt really good for this. Must be due to the drop in temperature. Thought it would be crap due to very poor hydration for the past 48 hours. Just felt like I was on automatic and had a pleasant 'gliding' feeling and pace was a lot quicker than recently for easy effort. 6 laps of local park but could have quite happily gone 'round and 'round and 'round for the evening but needed to keep lots in the tank for session the next day. Threw in 8 strides towards the end and felt fast and strong.

34 miles weekly total. Missed 2 days this week. One through tiredness and one to circumstances beyond my control.
998 miles...

Monday 28 July
Pyramid session, 1, 2, 3, 4, 3, 2, 1
Weird night. I did sleep ok but had some intense nightmares so I didn't feel rested at all this morning. Mind out of sync with body this morning. Strange feeling...

2 mile warm up brought me to 1,000 miles for the year passing the Phoenix monument in the Phonenix Park. Spent the next while trying to figure out why I'm still such a sh1t "runner" and why my progress is so slow compared to other people even though I run quite a bit and certainly put in the effort and a lot more effort than some. Couldn't come to any new conclusions so tried to focus on the positives instead and the good qualities I have as a "runner" such as good endurance and a strong body which means I do have good consistent training blocks without much interruption. I am faster than I have ever been before so it's going in the right direction albeit slowly:rolleyes: Someday it'll happen for me... hopefully.

Warmup: 11:03, 10:52, 10:44 (worried the w/u was so slow as it didn't bode well for the session)
7:50(1), 7:49(2), 7:50(3), 7:48(4), 7:46(3), 7:51(2), 7:44(1)
Took a while to warm up and get into a nice pace and rhythm. Did the reps at 5k effort. Not as warm as recently but the sun did come out just in time for these so I got the warmest part of the day once again. Happy enough with the reps and the effort felt hard but controlled and breathing not too laboured. Better than the same session last week which is down to the drop in temperature I think. I wish the weather would just stay like this.

Took in some hills in the park for the last 4 miles to challenge myself a bit more today. I'm trying to include more hills in my weekly mileage over the summer. Came upon the lovely 85 year old man who runs in the park a lot (very slowly these days) and had a nice chat with him. He's off to Zurich for the championships and says he's been at the last 14 Olympics and has been running in the park for over 60 years:eek: He's my hero:P
9:20 miles total
pm: 35 mins easy. Off work today so nice to get out again. This felt so effortless and like I was being pushed along! Weird but nice feeling:D

13 miles daily total

RedRunner

Nice work.

Wow that's amazing about that guy in the park. I want to be like him when I grow up !:D

gerard_65

RedRunner wrote: »

Nice work.

Wow that's amazing about that guy in the park. I want to be like him when I grow up !:D

Harry Gorman. Race starter for a lot of races. He's a legend.

Ososlo

gerard_65 wrote: »

Harry Gorman. Race starter for a lot of races. He's a legend.

Good to know his name. I've seen him at races too and wondered who he was. Fit and happy looking 85 year old.

Billy Mills

Ososlo wrote: »

Saturday 26 July

2 mile warm up brought me to 1,000 miles for the year passing the Phoenix monument in the Phonenix Park. Spent the next while trying to figure out why I'm still such a sh1t "runner" and why my progress is so slow compared to other people even though I run quite a bit and certainly put in the effort and a lot more effort than some. Couldn't come to any new conclusions so tried to focus on the positives instead and the good qualities I have as a "runner" such as good endurance and a strong body which means I do have good consistent training blocks without much interruption. I am faster than I have ever been before so it's going in the right direction albeit slowly:rolleyes: Someday it'll happen for me... hopefully.

You aren't "****" at all but I agree your progress is pretty slow for the effort put in.

A couple of points: 1. I think your sleep (or lack thereof) plays a really big role. You can't underestimate the influence this has on your ability to train effectively and recover from it. With that in mind I'd suggest that doing things like doubling are actually counter productive for you. You need to be able to let your body rest as much as it possibly can between each run and doing two a day is having pretty much zero benefit but hurting your ability to recover.

2. Relax. Running is meant to be fun and considering none of us have an upcoming Olympics to worry about - it is pointless putting pressure on ourselves or overthinking things. To that end- I think you'd improve if a) you found a way to train with others (join a club etc)....benefits of this cannot be overstated b) ran more races (I've already give my opinion on this) and c) stopped flogging yourself w/ sessions run at times that seem to be pulled out of thin air. Run sessions at the pace you are at, not where you want to be.

I know my opinion probably isn't welcome but I actually really hate watching this kind of thing happen where people flog themselves, run a whole bunch of fancy sessions and get slow progress out of it. Go read someone like Clara Lara or Martha Stews logs.... they are the perfect template for female improvement and both started in a similar kind of place that you came from.

tang1

Billy Mills wrote: »

You aren't "****" at all but I agree your progress is pretty slow for the effort put in.

A couple of points: 1. I think your sleep (or lack thereof) plays a really big role. You can't underestimate the influence this has on your ability to train effectively and recover from it. With that in mind I'd suggest that doing things like doubling are actually counter productive for you. You need to be able to let your body rest as much as it possibly can between each run and doing two a day is having pretty much zero benefit but hurting your ability to recover.

2. Relax. Running is meant to be fun and considering none of us have an upcoming Olympics to worry about - it is pointless putting pressure on ourselves or overthinking things. To that end- I think you'd improve if a) you found a way to train with others (join a club etc)....benefits of this cannot be overstated b) ran more races (I've already give my opinion on this) and c) stopped flogging yourself w/ sessions run at times that seem to be pulled out of thin air. Run sessions at the pace you are at, not where you want to be.

I know my opinion probably isn't welcome but I actually really hate watching this kind of thing happen where people flog themselves, run a whole bunch of fancy sessions and get slow progress out of it. Go read someone like Clara Lara or Martha Stews logs.... they are the perfect template for female improvement and both started in a similar kind of place that you came from.

+1 to that. Said it before your to hard on yourself which puts unneeded pressure on you to perform in sessions. As Mr Mills said relax bit more, your far, far from a sh!t runner. Wont say anything more on it.

Ososlo

Billy Mills wrote: »

You aren't "****" at all but I agree your progress is pretty slow for the effort put in.
Just like you can't stay away from my log for whatever reason, I can't hold myself back from responding to your comments:P
My progress has been slow from day 1. I was always slow, even in school races I was always last even though I wasn't fat and I was healthy so it's in my dna for whatever reason.

A couple of points: 1. I think your sleep (or lack thereof) plays a really big role. You can't underestimate the influence this has on your ability to train effectively and recover from it. With that in mind I'd suggest that doing things like doubling are actually counter productive for you. You need to be able to let your body rest as much as it possibly can between each run and doing two a day is having pretty much zero benefit but hurting your ability to recover.
Yes sleep (hours and quality) might have something to do with it. It's been like that since I was a young child and has nothing to do with running. If anything, the more I run the better I sleep.
I've officially knocked the doubles on the head for this training block as Stazza doest want me doing them but I had some 'stuff' to deal with lately and I use running to help me deal with stuff and if a 3 miles run in the evening of a 'session day' helps me deal with 'stuff' I'll chose that ahead of having a rothman when needs must if that's ok!
2. Relax. Running is meant to be fun and considering none of us have an upcoming Olympics to worry about - it is pointless putting pressure on ourselves or overthinking things. To that end- I think you'd improve if a) you found a way to train with others (join a club etc)....benefits of this cannot be overstated b) ran more races (I've already give my opinion on this) and c) stopped flogging yourself w/ sessions run at times that seem to be pulled out of thin air. Run sessions at the pace you are at, not where you want to be.
I don't want to run with others. I agree it probably is the best thing for me but I wouldn't be relaxed and enjoy running if I had to run with others. Yeah I'm a weirdo....... I am relaxed, I'm not making a big deal out of anything at all. I'm just posting some musings I had on my run today. I've accepted that my progress is slower than 'normal' people. So what's the big deal? I'm prepared to wait and hopefully see the improvements happen some day. To be honest, if I never improved again I'd still continue running as I love it.

I know my opinion probably isn't welcome but I actually really hate watching this kind of thing happen where people flog themselves, run a whole bunch of fancy sessions and get slow progress out of it. Go read someone like Clara Lara or Martha Stews logs.... they are the perfect template for female improvement and both started in a similar kind of place that you came from.
I've read both their logs. Difference is, both women had more natural ability than I have. That is clear from the start.
I have someone helping me with my training as you well know. If I really believed that everything you posted on my log over the months was solely with concern for my improvement I'd be delighted. However, we all know it's not now, don't we Billy;)

responses in bold above doctor Q.

rom

Without joining a club I can't see you making the improvements that you want. The lack of races and no one to challenge you on your sessions will have you less sharpe. Did a pyramid session similar on Sat myself. Could never have gone out later in the day as it would have meant that I didn't try hard enough in the session. Your 5k pace is clearly faster.

Ososlo

I heard there was deer culling in the park but nobody told me it was open season for Ososlo too.
FFS, so no one who doesn't join a club makes improvements??? I've heard it all now. Plenty of people who run on their own make improvments. Loads around here too.
My progress is slower than most but I am making progress. More than I've ever made before if truth be told.
:rolleyes:

gerard_65

You're letting it get to you again.:( Just keep up the good work in training and you'll be fine. And you're right, you can make just as much progress on your own. Many people who are in clubs still do most of their training on their own. Stop getting annoyed at other peoples comments. Take on board the constructive one's and dismiss the rest.

Murph_D

Open season? Ah now. I'm not aware of any persistent criticism on your log, Ososlo (haven't read all of it) but the above advice looks sound enough. While I do most of my running alone too I certainly do agree that I would improve faster with more competition and camaraderie. That is something that I DO want to change about my situation. Of course it's always easier to maintain the status quo so I haven't done it yet.

As regards people chiming in with advice, isn't that what keeping a public log is supposed to be all about?

I'm not sure how valid the questioning of your session choice is. You say you are being coached/advised. Is the coach happy with your progress? It seems you are not happy with the progress so maybe something should change?

Either way, you have lots of support around here, that's worth something too in terms of motivation and accountability. Best of luck.

Ososlo

Maybe I overreacted earlier.
Rom's comment annoyed me first thing as he personally knows I have issues with joining a club so it just seemed pointless to be bringing it up on a public forum when things were already heated. We've been there over and over in the past. ...

as for drq well I don't get it. He clearly had taken more of an interest in my log since stazza took over. He then said he'd ignore it after the last hoo ha. All he had to do was continue to ignore my training and everyone would have been happy. Instead I was publicly and privately hounded.

I'm delighted with my coach and my progress.
Yesterday I just questioned myself about why I'm inherently slow. My sister would be similar when we trained together. No natural ability. That's all I was querying.
No big deal. There are way more important things going on in my world right now that I'm trying to deal with.
Thank the running gods for running. ...

HelenAnne

Ososlo wrote: »

I'm delighted with my coach and my progress.
Yesterday I just questioned myself about why I'm inherently slow. My sister would be similar when we trained together. No natural ability. That's all I was querying.

Thank the running gods for running. ...

I know everyone is giving you unwanted advice, but I don't think you should tell yourself you have no natural ability. I think I probably don't either, and I certainly came from a VERY unsporty base, but like you, I loved running from the time I took it up, and that kept me at it and I think helped me improve (if you like something, you'll do it more, and you'll improve). But I think if I told myself all the time I had no ability and I wasn't going to get faster, that could become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I think what joining a club did for me (& I'm not suggesting you join one - boards probably serves the same purpose for you) was give me aspirations - I saw women (many of them older than me) running times I hadn't thought were achievable for me, and that made me aim higher.

This isn't a criticism, by the way, I know you love running, and you're happy with your training, I just think saying to yourself, 'I have no natural ability, and that limits me' can hold you back. (Having said that, I do constantly lament that men can run faster than me on less training, so I'm not as Zen as I'm trying to make out ).

TRR

I'm not going to give you any advice but regards the two female athletes that were mentioned above I'd totally disagree with your comments regards natural ability! They obviously have some natural ability but everyone does! They work really hard and most of all have lots of fun doing it. It isn't a chore for them at all!

rom

HelenAnne wrote: »

I just think saying to yourself, 'I have no natural ability, and that limits me' can hold you back.

+1

Self confidence is all you need and this constant putting yourself down ain't good. Find a way to break this cycle and it will all start to happen. Have been there myself and it's magic when it happens. It could be listening to the relentless positivity of a running podcast, a club, other positive runners, running community by doing regular races,reading a book where someone overcomes adversity etc but you need to get it from somewhere.

I listen to trail runner nation and marathon talk. Both give me romantic ideas of running races all over the world and doing great times. I find it great to be a dreamer.

yaboya1

TRR wrote: »

They obviously have some natural ability but everyone does! They work really hard and most of all have lots of fun doing it. It isn't a chore for them at all!

+1 to this.
The day running becomes a chore for me is the day I pack it in. Enjoying it is the main thing and if you're doing that, the chances are you'll improve automatically (this goes for most things in general life).

Ososlo

Thanks for the posts.
Not sure when I ever said running was a chore and I didn't enjoy it?
I relish every step and my only problem is that I love it so much I want to do too much.

Gavlor

If you want my tuppence worth (you're getting it anyway!) you should stop logging for a few months and just take/seek advice from your coach.

Logging every bad session/emotion is counter productive

rom

Gavlor wrote: »

If you want my tuppence worth (you're getting it anyway!) you should stop logging for a few months and just take/seek advice from your coach.

Logging every bad session/emotion is counter productive

Reading Ryan Hall's book would be good too if you can filter out the religion.

Murph_D

rom wrote: »

Reading Ryan Hall's book would be good too if you can filter out the religion.

Thanks for the warning on that one. I'm afraid my Jesus filter is broken beyond repair.

Ososlo

Was tempted for a while to abandon the log but that'd be like giving in and where I come from you fight your corner and make sure you have the last say:p
Anyway, I miss my log. I like my log. It works for me and just adds to the enjoyment I get from my running. I don't really agree with my honesty on the log being counter productive, to be honest, in fact it's quite the opposite!
If my log/training/approach/coaching bothers anyone a lot then it's really quite simple - IGNORE ME!.
There's plenty of room for us all around here.

Tuesday 29 July
35 mins easy w/6 strides 10:21min/mile
Poor sleep for last 2 nights so fairly tired all day and neck really sore from tiredness and stress but enjoyable little trot all the same. Certainly felt better after it than before.

Wednesday 30 July 10:15min/mile
45 mins easy w/6 strides
Warm enough, wore too many clothes. Lucky guys with their topless runs. Sometimes life just ain't fair...:(

Thursday 31 July
30 mins easy
Monthly roundup:
140 miles for the month.
5k pb
2 x Dr. Billy attacks

Friday 1 Aug
30 mins recovery effort 10:47min/mile
Threw in a few 10 sec strides. Right calf a bit tight. Foam rolled it to the point of bruising it last night to make it sorer! I almost overdid it but it did feel better the next day.

Saturday 2nd Aug
3m w/u, Parkrun, 3 m c/d
Another bit chipped off. Getting there- 24:48. It's taking me a lot longer than I hoped for me to get my original target of sub 24 this summer but it's going in the right direction. Arrived late due to flooding on the roads in Santry and had to start right at the back and was a bit panicked. Route was flooded in a few parts so we had to run on the grass for some of it. Luckily I didn't wear my racing shoes as I find I slip a lot in them in wet conditions so just not worth taking the chance of slipping and falling which happened me before in a session.
A good workout but I know I'm capable of much better but I've yet to prove that to myself in a race. My training suggest I should be performing a lot better in races. I have another 5k in a few weeks to hopefully make some more gains. I'll get the hang of it eventually... I do feel that my race nerves are holding me back a lot and they haven't improved over the 3 races I've done in the last few weeks. This third race was just as bad for nerves as the first one I did. I've another 3 races to do over the next while, so hopefully it'll get a bit easier in time.

Sunday 3 Aug
Week One, Day One of Couch to 5k
Stazza told me to wipe the slate clean and start at the very beginning again:D
Actually my mother wants to take up a bit of running at the grand old age of 60 odd. She was a very fast runner as a child and used to win all her school races unlike her daughter so she seems to have a bit of natural speed. Apparently we inherit our mitochondria from out mothers! Maybe it can skip a generation or perhaps I'm adopted!
She awoke with her first sports injury this morning having not run a step for 50 odd years - a sore calf. It must have been nerves! But she was determined to run anyways. She said nothing was going to stop her from running today. I like that attitude! After her morning cigarette:rolleyes: and donning her makeup (I'm my mother's daughter in that respect), we headed for the park looking good:D. 5 mins walk and then alternating 60 sec jogging with 90 sec walking. 8 one min reps of running and she did great. She could have done another few and I told her to put a bit of welly into the last one if she wanted and she tore off ahead of me! She's still got the speed:cool:
pm: 40 mins easy. This morning served as my recovery run so felt I could allow myself to enjoy another little trot. Legs don't feel like I did a race yesterday. I think maybe I'm just not pushing myself enough...
Weekly total: 36 miles

Monday 4 August
11 miles easy with 6 x 45 sec strides 10:05min/mile
Woke up feeling wonderful and no delayed ill-effects from the race still so wanted to do a session. Was advised not to do a session so a longer run was suggested instead which I thoroughly enjoyed. Supposed to be 10 miles but forgot where I had put the car (blonde moment:o) but delighted I had an excuse to do an extra one:)
Really focused on my form and used the advice I got this morning to run with 'light feet' and not plod. Kept this strategy in mind for the whole run and while I was not purposely trying to run faster, it did turn out a bit faster than normal longer runs for the same effort. Included as many hills in the Phonenix Park as possible to challenge myself a little more.

Tuesday 5 August
4 miles easy
Long day childminding (how do you people do this full time) and I was wrecked and broke. Managed to perk up for a run this evening though. It was Elbow Night in the Demesne but I did notice a distinct improvement in the formation of the ladies' running groups. Perhaps I had something to do with that;) Felt like I was being pushed along on this run tonight and pace was just under 10 which is fast for me for easy effort but it certainly felt very easy.

Thanks for the very kind pms and offers over the past week. My Dance Running Card is certainly full for the next while. TbL would be jealous! Pity I'm such a unsociable runner but maybe that'll change soon...There ia a truly special group of people on this forum and it would be nice to go for a jog with one or two sometime in the future or get some help with a session.
1044 - yearly total

Stazza

Just want to point out that the link to FH's article about mitochondria etc is very selective in its quotes from the relevant research. Frank selected certain elements from the papers to support his method of training. He omitted several points, which show there's more to it...

And if anybody reads the rest of his articles, which I suggest they do, bear in mind that Frank was dogmatic/controversial/brilliant. It's interesting to read Frank's stuff and then read John Kellogg's work: they are polar in their approaches and yet both very successful and respected within elite circles.

Talking of elites - good to see you posting again and well done on the pb. Go on, tell the good folks how much you've sliced off your pb in the two 5k races you finished?

Ososlo

Stazza wrote: »

Just want to point out that the link to FH's article about mitochondria etc is very selective in its quotes from the relevant research. Frank selected certain elements from the papers to support his method of training. He omitted several points, which show there's more to it...

And if anybody reads the rest of his articles, which I suggest they do, bear in mind that Frank was dogmatic/controversial/brilliant. It's interesting to read Frank's stuff and then read John Kellogg's work: they are polar in their approaches and yet both very successful and respected within elite circles.

Talking of elites - good to see you posting again and well done on the pb. Go on, tell the good folks how much you've sliced off your pb in the two 5k races you finished?

Thanks. 62 seconds and counting...

Duanington

well now that is progress, well done !