I revisited FF8 for the first time in over a decade

Siegfreid

Final Fantasy VIII must have been one of the most anticipated sequels in gaming history. I originally played it around the year 2000 but never finished it. I recently gave it another go over a decade later (due to the boredom of the Xmas holidays) and here are my thoughts. Note that although FFVII remains my favourite game of all time, I tried to judge FFVIII on its own merits.

1. The battles are mind-numbingly boring. I rarely ever used physical attacks or magic as they were so weak. Instead it’s easier to spam GF attacks. Which leads me on to the next point.
   
   
2. The GF sequences are so bloody long and it’s impossible to skip them. I must have seen the Shiva/Ifrit/Quezacotl summon over a 500 hundred times. No exaggeration.
   
   
3. I hate the way you only gain access to a whole bunch of GFs in the final section of the game (Alexander). This doesn’t give you time to train them up and learn new abilities.
   
   
4. I hate that it was the first RPG in which I had to use a guide. There are parts of the game where you have no idea where to go next or what to do. For example, when you have to find the White Seed Ship n disc 3. I think this was the reason I originally gave up with the game over a decade ago. I didn’t have internet back then in 2000 so didn’t have access to all the hints and tips we have nowadays.
   
   
5. There are lots of sidequests and secret bosses but these are nigh on impossible to discover by accident. Again, you will need a guide to find these.
   
   
6. The junctions system is confusing. I appreciate that the developers wanted to try something new and different, but it didn’t work. The node system of FFX was the most-user friendly system I’ve come across.
   
   
7. The characters simply aren’t interesting. We don’t learn a lot about their histories or personalities.

Again I want to stress that I’m not comparing FFVIII to FFVII (no game can ever come close to 7 imo) but even as a standalone RPG, FFVIII sucks. If I had to sum it up in one word: Frustration. It’s simply not fun to play. Thanks for reading.

o1s1n

I played through FF VI again over the last few months - it's a better game than VII. Better characters, better (coherent) story, better bad guy, better magic system. Just better. It took a lot for me to realize that, but it's most definitely the case. My nostalgic love for VII clouded my judgement.

It's still one of my favourite games, but not as good as VI. And definitely not as good as Phantasy Star IV (which VII ripped off in several parts, but we won't go there!)

FF VIII I never bothered finishing either the first time around, was incredibly disappointed.

Siegfreid

It's true that FFVI is a bloody excellent game and was cutting edge for its time (the 3D world map on the chocobo - Wow!) but I'd like to keep this thread about FFVIII if that's okay? How far into the game did you get before you quit Oisin?

MitchKoobski

Siegfreid wrote: »

1. The battles are mind-numbingly boring. I rarely ever used physical attacks or magic as they were so weak. Instead it’s easier to spam GF attacks. Which leads me on to the next point.
   
   
2. The GF sequences are so bloody long and it’s impossible to skip them. I must have seen the Shiva/Ifrit/Quezacotl summon over a 500 hundred times. No exaggeration.
   

1. If you work the card game and junctioning system right, your attacks and magic become just as powerful, if not more powerful, than GF's. Of course it's easier to spam GF attacks, but that's not gonna be a viable strategy later in the game.

2. Why would you want to skip them? Use the GF Boost ability.

Retr0gamer

Siegfreid wrote: »

1. The battles are mind-numbingly boring. I rarely ever used physical attacks or magic as they were so weak. Instead it’s easier to spam GF attacks. Which leads me on to the next point.
   
   
2. The GF sequences are so bloody long and it’s impossible to skip them. I must have seen the Shiva/Ifrit/Quezacotl summon over a 500 hundred times. No exaggeration.

You're playing the game wrong.

Don't worry I started playing the game this way as well but it's simply not how the game should be played. You should not be using summons at all during the game. Physical attacks are all you really need.

the thing about FFVIII is that like FFV the battle system is utterly broken but purposefully so. You can really break the game wide open and have a lot of fun with it.

The first broken mechanic is junctioning spells. You can junction spells to your stats, there's nothing stopping you junctioning 100 of a type of spell to each stat. You should definitely do this

The second broken mechanic are the abilities your GFs learn. You will see most GFs have stat+10%. What you do is prioritise learning this, then the 20% then the 30%. After this it will turn into stat +1. This means every time you level up you get a permanent +1 to that stat. With junctioning and this you can turn your characters into abosolute beasts that only need physical attacks and thus can end battles easily.

It's a good fun game with a ****ty story it's just the systems in the game are too convoluted and badly explained.

Siegfreid

I'm aware of the GF boost ability where you hammer the square button repeatedly to increase the power of GF attacks, but this is just bad game design imo. You are still forced to sit through long summon sequences. Not fun.

I know a bit about junctioning spells to stats but to be honest throughout the game I used the auto junction feature and didn't bother tweaking with it. Perhaps some of the boss battles could have been easier this way.

Leaving aside the battle system, you must admit the game design is seriously flawed. Half the time the player has no idea what to do next. I reached Lunatic Pandora (just before Ultimecia's Castle which is the final section of the game) around 35 hours into the game. I then realised one of the bosses was too difficult and so spent a further 5 hours levelling up using random battles on the world up. A player should not have been able to get so far into the game with such a low level.

MitchKoobski

To be honest it seems like you didn't enjoy the game because you couldn't be arsed putting any time into the junctioning or battle system, one of the core features of the game.

Retr0gamer

Yep it's flawed but once you understand the game it's actually a lot of fun. I hated it the first time through because I was relying on GF summons which is totally the wrong way to play. You really shouldn't be focusing on auto junctioning. You should be getting as many high level spells as you can from drawing (a pain in the hole as well) and junctioning them yourself and looking after you GF's abilities, those +1 skills are the best way to destroy the game as are some of the items you get from the card game (which is excellent once you get into it, although some of the sidequests for it are a pain).

Also levelling up won't do you any good in FFVIII. Bosses and enemies actually level up with your party.

The problem with FFVIII is it doesn't tell you what it expects from the player and from the outset gives you summons to use. These are the most powerful spells in other FF games and do the most damage at the start but are actually utterly useless in FFVIII other than the abilities you learn from them. You can get to a certain point in FFVIII just using them but eventually you'll get to a boss where you just can't use those skills, most likely the one where area of effect skills are useless when Rinoa is captured by the witch. Lots of people quit at that point.

Yep it has loads of flaws but you have to hand it that it didn't rest on it's laurels and actually tried something new. FFVII on the other hand was a mechanically weaker version of FFVI with plot elements stolen from Phantasy Star IV and Chrono trigger and a bit of evangelion thrown in.

Once you start playing the game the way you are meant to it actually does become a lot more fun and battles don't drag on at all.

It does have loads of flaws but once you get past them it's a fun game. And yes it's pretty awfully designed

Retr0gamer

MitchKoobski wrote: »

To be honest it seems like you didn't enjoy the game because you couldn't be arsed putting any time into the junctioning or battle system, one of the core features of the game.

It's not really the players fault though. It's not well explained at all to players in the game. It is a huge flaw with FFVIII. I played through the entire game the wrong way the first time. I had awful trouble on the boss when Rinoa got captured and ultimecia's castle was a nightmare as was the final fight (I had to use triple protect and shell just to stay alive, triple meteor to do about 400+ damaged and the odd use of squalls limit break to win. It took about 2 hours!!!).

ElektroToad

Retrogamer has it spot on. I made the exact same mistake because its never really shown just how powerful you can become by using (abusing?) the junction function.

Instead of spending hours grinding for monsters, you should be spending hours playing the card minigame and refining the cards for powerful magic!

Still I loved FF8 to bits as it was the first FF I ever played.

Shame the story totally fell apart by the middle of Disc 3.

snausages

Get your gfs to learn magic-refining abilities and just change every loose item you have into magic. Buy a load of tents, turn them into Curagas with Siren's magic refine (though if you don't have a guide you might have missed that GF) and put them into your HP.

I do think it's really stupid how obscure some of the secrets are. You have to talk to the headmaster two or three times during one completely innocuous part of the game to get the magic lamp that gives you Diablos. It's pretty clear that you're just 'meant' to have the official strategy guide. And they went and did that **** two more times with IX's Excalibur II and XII's Zodiac Spear

You don't need to draw. At all. Just refine items.

ShaneU

One of the few games I bought a guide for, ended up relying on it a lot, still have it too. I remember bring very confused by the Laguna story and the junction system was awful compared to materia

Arawn

FF8 was my first FF. I thought the junctioning system was handy as, It tells you in a point by point guide that junctioning spells makes you stronger and can add elemental effects to your attacks. How could anyone not understand that strong spells in high numbers boosts you is beyond me. Also it explains the draw that some bosses have gfs that can only be got using draw, so when you see a boss you should at least check draw.

Also the card game is amazing.

The game has a load of flaws, but if you actually read the tutorials you should find it simple to break

Retr0gamer

I think the problem is that those tutorials are at the start and the game is such a breeze that you don't need to pay attention to it. After a few weeks and 40 hours into the game players start having trouble and have totally forgotten those tutorials

Pushtrak

I got it on Steam recently. Ideally, when I get around to playing it, I'll look to keep as close to level 1 as possible. I know you don't get exp from mandatory battles, so you could keep to level 1 the whole way through. The only thing that makes me hesitate from going all out that way is wanting to get more AP than from the mandatory battles.

Aurongroove

I did too (recently played ff8)
I realized that with the limit break trick, the already broken (but charmingly broken) kinda crumbled into "not fun".
Start the game:
leave garden, play a few card games,
refine Sandworm cards>windmills>100 Tornado.
Fight those fish dudes>Fish scales> 100 water
Chef's knives> 100 deaths (the list goes on, you can even get flare spells)

Squall had HP and strength junction and was so strong that I could leave him critical and his HP would be yellow but still as high as the rest of the party, Free Limit breaks forever that do thousands of points of damage per hit, no need to attack, use magic or summon for the rest of the game.

I hate the way you only gain access to a whole bunch of GFs in the final section of the game (Alexander). This doesn’t give you time to train them up and learn new abilities.

That is the second chance to get the GFs, You can draw Alexander from Edea in Galbadia Garden (I think at the end of Disc 2).
The ones you're drawing at the final Dungeon are the one's you've missed throughout the game. I think the first time I played though I missed Pandimonium and Siren and I got them off of two of the bosses in the final dungeon.



I feel if they were to "re release" this game. If you think of stuff like the W-Item glitch in FFVII, for FFVIII they'd have to get rid of the Limit break trick, Only then could they start looking at things like shortened GF sequences, re-balancing Magic damage (to make it do more damage compared to Limit breaks, attacks and Summons), and maybe capping the effect of junctioning to stats by the players level. (or some system preventing low level players having their strenht go from 20 to 120 right at the beginning of the game by junctioning 100 spells you've just refined.

Retr0gamer

I'm pretty sure it's possible to get Squalls best weapon and thus best limit break on disc 1.

Arawn

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it's possible to get Squalls best weapon and thus best limit break on disc 1.

you can get ut before you get to tmber iirc

kisaragi

Pushtrak wrote: »

I got it on Steam recently. Ideally, when I get around to playing it, I'll look to keep as close to level 1 as possible. I know you don't get exp from mandatory battles, so you could keep to level 1 the whole way through. The only thing that makes me hesitate from going all out that way is wanting to get more AP than from the mandatory battles.

Just card enemies! Spend hours upon hours of your life carding the fish enemies til you get some of the card mod / stat junction skills you need and then equip no-encounters (from Diablos) and you can stay low level til the end of the game when you can level up with all the appropriate stat-boosting abilities equipped.

Satisfying but not exactly fun :pac:

kathleenc92

Replayed it myself recently and forgot to get the lamp from Cid to get Diablos. Not even gonna bother anymore -_-

raze_them_all_

you cant forget to get it, he gives it to you in story progression

kathleenc92

haha you are right, just checked it there and saw I did actually have the lamp, awesome! I was told you had to approach Cid yourself which I never did and I stopped playing right after Dollet cause I was just busy being a mam so I never recalled being given a lamp. Thanks.

macker33

I love the card game in ff8, what i cant get over is how old some of the ff8 games look, at the time i thought they were the greatest looking titles ever.
I know upscaling doesnt help but they look old.

raze_them_all_

macker33 wrote: »

I love the card game in ff8, what i cant get over is how old some of the ff8 games look, at the time i thought they were the greatest looking titles ever.
I know upscaling doesnt help but they look old.

Do you look older now than you did 15 years ago??

macker33

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

Do you look older now than you did 15 years ago??

Not so much really, must have been an old mans ass then too

Adamantium

Batter the ****e out of your own team mate. Squall Mostly.

Triangle x 10 times. Bleep. Triangle Again ,overshot, **** Triangle 5 times more

Bleep. Relax momentarily.

Renzokuken. Engage!

Hold Breath. R1 R1 R1 R1 R1.

Breath out

C'mon Lion Heart, Lion Heart............. ****ing Rough Divide.

WELCOME TO FINAL FANTASY VIII.

tonydude

Siegfreid wrote: »

1. The GF sequences are so bloody long and it’s impossible to skip them. I must have seen the Shiva/Ifrit/Quezacotl summon over a 500 hundred times. No exaggeration.

It was my first final fantasy I played, had the choice of buying vii or viii and my brother told me to get viii cause it was the latest one, even though I went into the shop to get vii. I loved the game but it did annoy me at how long the sequences were. Loved the GF's and to this day I still compare them to the newer final fantasy summons. Go Shiva

Hotman

o1s1n wrote: »

I played through FF VI again over the last few months - it's a better game than VII. Better characters, better (coherent) story, better bad guy, better magic system. Just better. It took a lot for me to realize that, but it's most definitely the case. My nostalgic love for VII clouded my judgement.

It's still one of my favourite games, but not as good as VI. And definitely not as good as Phantasy Star IV (which VII ripped off in several parts, but we won't go there!)

FF VIII I never bothered finishing either the first time around, was incredibly disappointed.

would you recommend Phantasy star 4???? i loved ff7 (like obsessed back then). liked 8 as i finished it and for some reason my favourite is 9, yet evern though i've started the game 17 times (no joke) i've never played past disc 3.. and the weirdest part is i STILL havn't bloody unlocked any Summon on Garnet!!!!

Retr0gamer

Phantasy Star 4 is a wonderful game. It's just a heap of fun and looks gorgeous.

Perkinstock

What I like most FF 8 is the junction system, wich is the best way to make your characters stronger instead of leveling up.

BeerWolf

o1s1n wrote: »

I played through FF VI again over the last few months - it's a better game than VII.

I think so too - I personally believe majority of people who say FF7 was the best are just too nostalgic, primarily due to the fact it was the first Final Fantasy game to be brought out in 3D and on the ever popular Playstation... it just had that 'wow' factor.

FF6 had way more depth.

Hotman

FF8 is an excellent game, genuinely an excellent game. It's not FF9 or FF7. But the whole "i don't even use attacks i just spam GF's etc" is a moot point.

In FF7 on the 3rd disk ALL of the materia's in the game are useless, as all you use is 4x Cut. My basic attacks hit for 9999, my Mastered Lightning does about 4500... They messed the game up by making the magic too underpowered. The only useful summons in the game were Knights of the 15 minute cast time and Phoenix. I mean, look at Kjata? lol 4x Cut did more damage than 87% of ALL the magic in the entire game.

All the games are flawed hugely. so picking on FF8 for having the same traits as all of the FF's is picking on a woman for wearing short skirts in a short skird parade.

FF7 Was amazing, FF8 was Great, FF9 is 10/10. FF10 is the most ridiculously Emo childish thing i've ever played in my life, that ginger hawaain guy and the main character were the worst 2 characters ever created in a video game. Yet all the 14 year old's think it's the best game of all time.

Just goes to show how simple people's minds are gone (the top 100 music charts of 2014 is all black guys talking... yes talking into a mic with a crappy beat behind it coz they can't sing, while people with original talent who play their own instruments and don't cover old song's have like 3 of the top 100 spots).

The world is for dumb people. Play FF8 again, and enjoy it.