Possibly the most silly question you've seen on this forum but

fr336

Brand new planes. How do they get from manufacturer to their intended region of the world? e.g. Boeing in the US to Ireland. Are they - quite obviously - flown themselves, or shipped? Apologies for the stupidity here

ANXIOUS

Manufacturers deliver.

fr336

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Manufacturers deliver.

I'm still none the wiser

ANXIOUS

An example would be if Ryanair bought a Boeing an wanted it in dublin Boeing would deliver it to dublin.

YbFocus

Yes they fly it over

Fr you watch flightradar I think, you'll see a delivery flight the very odd time

Growler!!!

Are you sure. My crowd send line pilots to Toulouse to do final test and delivery flight.

Could be different for each airline

fr336

ANXIOUS wrote: »

An example would be if Ryanair bought a Boeing an wanted it in dublin Boeing would deliver it to dublin.

I have no doubt I didn't explain myself well in the OP..what I'm meaning is how do Boeing get it to Ryanair? Would they simply fly the plane from the US to Ireland - is that aircraft type capable of such a trip?

LXFlyer

Yes!

gctest50

http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/737family/pf/pf_700ctech.page?

fr336

gctest50 wrote: »

http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/737family/pf/pf_700ctech.page?

Thanks very much

IngazZagni

ANXIOUS wrote: »

An example would be if Ryanair bought a Boeing an wanted it in dublin Boeing would deliver it to dublin.

No Ryanair send 2 pilots to Seattle and they fly it back nonstop to Dublin.

kub

IngazZagni wrote: »

No Ryanair send 2 pilots to Seattle and they fly it back nonstop to Dublin.

As the plane has no passengers and therefore no luggage, is it a single flight or do they have to do a fuel stop enroute?

andy_g

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Manufacturers deliver.

Nope incorrect

ANXIOUS wrote: »

An example would be if Ryanair bought a Boeing an wanted it in dublin Boeing would deliver it to dublin.

Boeing wont fly the A/C to the delivery to the destination.

Airline normally sends pilots over to collect and i know FR do a fuel stop before the atlantic crossing.

smurfjed

All new aircraft must be accepted by the airline prior to the final signing of the contract, so the airline will send pilots and engineers to the manufacturers acceptance centre and test fly the aircraft. As the contract usually states that certain guarantees expire as soon as the aircraft is accepted, it is imperative that the acceptance testing is done correctly. Once this is done, the aircraft will be delivered by the airlines own pilots as they are now the owners. The manufacturer might be requested to supply trainers for a number of hours/months for new aircraft types.

EchoIndia

andy_g wrote: »

Airline normally sends pilots over to collect and i know FR do a fuel stop before the atlantic crossing.

Virtually all Ryanair 737-800s have made it direct to Dublin from Seattle, certainly since winglets became a standard fitting. Here is a typical example:
http://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/RYR800Z

Aestivalis

EchoIndia wrote: »

Virtually all Ryanair 737-800s have made it direct to Dublin from Seattle, certainly since winglets became a standard fitting. Here is a typical example:
http://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/RYR800Z

do they have to have extra fuel-tanks fitted? Or is it just able to do extra range because its virtually empty?

EchoIndia

Aestivalis wrote: »

do they have to have extra fuel-tanks fitted? Or is it just able to do extra range because its virtually empty?

The aircraft is in standard configuration.

Tenger

ANXIOUS wrote: »

An example would be if Ryanair bought a Boeing an wanted it in dublin Boeing would deliver it to dublin.

No. When Ryanair buy a Boeing aircraft they take delivery from Boeing in Seattle. Ryanair pilots them fly the aircraft back to Dublin. Aer Lingus do similar with Airbus...their own pilots fly the delivery flight. (A mate was part of the approval/delivery team that got the EI retro A320 back to DUB a few years back)

Once the paperwork has been signed off at the manufacturers base then it is the responsibility of the airline to get it where it belongs.

Other airlines may have separate deals but those are the 2 that I am certain of


PS: the only stupid question is the one you don't ask. Everything else is info seeking or clarification.

n0brain3r

Sorry to hijack but I'd like to ask whats probably an obvious question to you guys!

I was collecting family from Dublin airport on Monday afternoon and the flight was delayed so I pulled in with the spotters to watch arrivals with the young lad. I was amazed (In a good way) at how close a landing aircraft would follow a departing. I could see the departing start to climb away as the arriving touched down I know this is probably pretty normal stuff but I was wondering how is this kept safe?

Say the landing aircraft has to go around now 2 aircraft are climbing away from the same runway or is the go around flight path completely separate to the departure path?

fr336

n0brain3r wrote: »

Sorry to hijack but I'd like to ask whats probably an obvious question to you guys!

I was collecting family from Dublin airport on Monday afternoon and the flight was delayed so I pulled in with the spotters to watch arrivals with the young lad. I was amazed (In a good way) at how close a landing aircraft would follow a departing. I could see the departing start to climb away as the arriving touched down I know this is probably pretty normal stuff but I was wondering how is this kept safe?

Say the landing aircraft has to go around now 2 aircraft are climbing away from the same runway or is the go around flight path completely separate to the departure path?

I'd like to know this too!

Aestivalis

EchoIndia wrote: »

The aircraft is in standard configuration.

I presume that means theres no changes or extra tanks then?

If this is so, would it be anyway possible for the 738 to start doing trans-atlantic routes?

kub

Tenger wrote: »

No. When Ryanair buy a Boeing aircraft they take delivery from Boeing in Seattle. Ryanair pilots them fly the aircraft back to Dublin. Aer Lingus do similar with Airbus...their own pilots fly the delivery flight. (A mate was part of the approval/delivery team that got the EI retro A320 back to DUB a few years back)

Once the paperwork has been signed off at the manufacturers base then it is the responsibility of the airline to get it where it belongs.

Other airlines may have separate deals but those are the 2 that I am certain of


PS: the only stupid question is the one you don't ask. Everything else is info seeking or clarification.

No offence to Aer Lingus or Airbus, but I would prefer to crew the Ryanair delivery flight any day. France just is too close.

Bsal

n0brain3r wrote: »

Sorry to hijack but I'd like to ask whats probably an obvious question to you guys!

I was collecting family from Dublin airport on Monday afternoon and the flight was delayed so I pulled in with the spotters to watch arrivals with the young lad. I was amazed (In a good way) at how close a landing aircraft would follow a departing. I could see the departing start to climb away as the arriving touched down I know this is probably pretty normal stuff but I was wondering how is this kept safe?

Say the landing aircraft has to go around now 2 aircraft are climbing away from the same runway or is the go around flight path completely separate to the departure path?

The aircraft that is performing the missed approach would normally be given a heading and an altitude to fly by the tower controller in situations like that for example fly heading North stop climb at 2000ft.

Bsal

On the other topic of B738 delivery flights to Dublin, they can fly non stop Seattle-Dublin because the aircraft are full of fuel, no payload and a nice tailwind.

billie1b

ANXIOUS wrote: »

An example would be if Ryanair bought a Boeing an wanted it in dublin Boeing would deliver it to dublin.

Incorrect, Ryanair send pilots over to collect their aircraft, usually a senior Capt. and senior F/O

billie1b

andy_g wrote: »

Nope incorrect



Boeing wont fly the A/C to the delivery to the destination.

Airline normally sends pilots over to collect and i know FR do a fuel stop before the atlantic crossing.

Incorrect, the Ryanair 738's are flown direct from Seattle, the last stop over was due to an emergency, it diverted to RKV

Patrickheg

Here's an interesting example of an airline taking delivery of a plane from Boeing in Seattle with a not so happy ending for the pilot

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/pictures-cathay-chief-777-pilot-fired-after-low-level-flypast-stunt-221793/

n0brain3r

Bsal wrote: »

The aircraft that is performing the missed approach would normally be given a heading and an altitude to fly by the tower controller in situations like that for example fly heading North stop climb at 2000ft.

So the crew would inform the controller they where executing a missed approach and he would resolve any conflict? Does the incoming have to have visual on the departing too, to allow such close operation? Would this generate a tcas warning? Sorry for all the questions I was genuinely intrigued at how close they could operate landing and departures.

billie1b

n0brain3r wrote: »

So the crew would inform the controller they where executing a missed approach and he would resolve any conflict? Does the incoming have to have visual on the departing too, to allow such close operation? Would this generate a tcas warning? Sorry for all the questions I was genuinely intrigued at how close they could operate landing and departures.

Every Airport has a missed approach chart, when your executing a missed approach its just a click of a button, the details of the path for the missed approach are already in the FMC, the departing aircraft will be on a straight out departure heading until it reaches a certain altitude (higher than 3000ft) or point and then begin its turn, the missed approach aircraft usually climbs to 3000ft and makes its turn, depending on the runway in use it will be left or right and circle the airfield to intercept the ILS again. The departure aircraft will contact a departure frequency and missed approach aircraft will be handed back over to the approach frequency. At busy times in DUB they can have a landing and departing within 45 seconds of each other, its enough for the aircraft taking off to abort its take off and the landing to go around and enough for the take off to depart and landing aircraft to execute a missed approach

Stovepipe

@billieb, a friend of mine in Ryanair was detailed to go and collect a 738 from Seattle. He hadn't got huge hours and was simply next in line. He was given a day's notice to get ready (ie, passport, ESTA clearance and so on). The captain he went with had done the routine a few times so the acceptance was simple enough. Once the aircraft is signed for, Boeing want you gone, as soon as humanly possible, as they want you out of their pockets as soon as. They went to Prestwick directly from Seattle and eventually left the aircraft in Poland.

regards
Stovepipe

billie1b

Stovepipe wrote: »

@billieb, a friend of mine in Ryanair was detailed to go and collect a 738 from Seattle. He hadn't got huge hours and was simply next in line. He was given a day's notice to get ready (ie, passport, ESTA clearance and so on). The captain he went with had done the routine a few times so the acceptance was simple enough. Once the aircraft is signed for, Boeing want you gone, as soon as humanly possible, as they want you out of their pockets as soon as. They went to Prestwick directly from Seattle and eventually left the aircraft in Poland.

regards
Stovepipe

Yeah sounds about right, there'll be a lot more coming up next year too, think they're looking at collecting 3 a month, I must check it out in work and see. It's a great oppertunity to get it

smurfjed

ESTA clearance

I would have thought that they would require a "D" visa rather than ESTA.

Tenger

smurfjed wrote: »

I would have thought that they would require a "D" visa rather than ESTA.

Doubt FR would pay it for them so get the crew to get their own ESTA?

smurfjed

The aircraft is operating a private flight from the USA, therefore ESTA is not valid, you must have a visa. FR could find themselves with a nice bill from immigration.

BetterThanThou

Why, in general, aren't wide body aircraft used on short haul, high traffic routes? For instance, Dublin-London? I know this is done(or was done) in Asia(Japan definitely), but is there any reason it's not done here?

ProfessorPlum

kub wrote: »

No offence to Aer Lingus or Airbus, but I would prefer to crew the Ryanair delivery flight any day. France just is too close.

Ah but the steak and wine is better

billie1b

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Ah but the steak and wine is better

The steaks and beer we get from Boeing on the delivery planes and other goodies are just as goid as the French ones

urajoke

BetterThanThou wrote: »

Why, in general, aren't wide body aircraft used on short haul, high traffic routes? For instance, Dublin-London? I know this is done(or was done) in Asia(Japan definitely), but is there any reason it's not done here?

Wide body costs more to buy, fuel, park, ATC charges, cater etc. It takes longer to turn around. Dublin to London for example might be to short and you can't charge extra to make up the difference. What happens if only half your seats are full on the wide body the narrow body would have been full and profitable. That's why frequencies on busy routes are high.

ProfessorPlum

billie1b wrote: »

The steaks and beer we get from Boeing on the delivery planes and other goodies are just as goid as the French ones

Sacré-cœur, I'm talking restaurants, fine dining old chap

billie1b

Sacré-Coeur??? You sure your using the correct phrase? I agree with you on fine dining

ProfessorPlum

billie1b wrote: »

Sacré-Coeur??? You sure your using the correct phrase? I agree with you on fine dining

Yes

smurfjed

The Airbus VIP restaurant apparently has a Michelin Star and an amazing wine cellar. We had an Airbus sales rep who was a food aficionado, so i had the pleasure of dining there once during contract negotiations

Evan DietrichSmith

urajoke wrote: »

Wide body costs more to buy, fuel, park, ATC charges, cater etc. It takes longer to turn around. Dublin to London for example might be to short and you can't charge extra to make up the difference. What happens if only half your seats are full on the wide body the narrow body would have been full and profitable. That's why frequencies on busy routes are high.

Yes, all that correct,also let's say a wide body might leave DUB full at 0800 arrive LHR at 0910 on the ground for up to 90 mins,leaving again for DUB around 1045 ish. Very little chance of filling it at that time.

Much more economic to have high freq smaller capacity a/c as you rightly say

Just expanding a bit for the benefit of the person who asked.

Evan DietrichSmith

Bsal wrote: »

On the other topic of B738 delivery flights to Dublin, they can fly non stop Seattle-Dublin because the aircraft are full of fuel, no payload and a nice tailwind.

Maybe no "payload" in the strict sense,but they would have a nice little cargo of spares and equipment would they not?

Maybe not though?

billie1b

Evan DietrichSmith wrote: »

Maybe no "payload" in the strict sense,but they would have a nice little cargo of spares and equipment would they not?

Maybe not though?

Yeah they used to come in with cargo in the boot and the wing tips (got assembled in PIK) and whatever shopping the 2 pilots have :-D

billie1b

smurfjed wrote: »

The Airbus VIP restaurant apparently has a Michelin Star and an amazing wine cellar. We had an Airbus sales rep who was a food aficionado, so i had the pleasure of dining there once during contract negotiations

Nice! Lucky you, id say that was a nice little unexpected perk on your trip

Evan DietrichSmith

billie1b wrote: »

Yeah they used to come in with cargo in the boot and the wing tips (got assembled in PIK) and whatever shopping the 2 pilots have :-D

The odd ride-on lawn mower perhaps:D

kub

Evan DietrichSmith wrote: »

The odd ride-on lawn mower perhaps:D

Sccch customs might be reading this.

djmcr

Evan DietrichSmith wrote: »

The odd ride-on lawn mower perhaps:D

Wouldnt fancy trying to fit one of those in the hold of a B738

Strumms

Wth our crowd we would send what we call 'tech pilots' on these missions where they will perform the flight tests and ground inspections. They will be with a team tasked with checking out everything from the interior, exterior and the obvious technical shape of the aircraft. The tech pilots would be non line flying pilots and usually attached to the training department. They are usually the same guys that will take back an aircraft from a 'C' check. As it's an American airline they also would be the same guys who would maybe reposition a jet that is empty to a foreign domicile and visa versa.

IngazZagni

djmcr wrote: »

Wouldnt fancy trying to fit one of those in the hold of a B738

Would be no bother. Plenty of room and has been done!