Overfilled Engine oil - Bad mistake

bbam

Well..
Looks like I overfilled her car, C4 Grand Picasso, with oil and it stopped along the road..
Sounds like it had a runaway episode before she stopped it.. Plumes of smoke...

Not a great start to christmas eve

Have it towed back home and booked into garage in new year...
It turns over fine but doesn't start..

Any guess on the chances of getting away without changing the engine ??

Neilw

How much did you over fill it by?

bbam

Neilw wrote: »

How much did you over fill it by?

Its about an inch above high level on dipstick..

A-Trak

bbam wrote: »

Its about an inch above high level on dipstick..

How long is the space between low and high level on the dipstick?

bbam

A-Trak wrote: »

How long is the space between low and high level on the dipstick?

Inch and a half maybe..

Neilw

Doesn't sound like you put that much in. Was the car on level ground when you were topping up?

kona

Depends on the size of the sump and shape, but if it overfilled you could have just opened the sump plug a bit to drain off the extra.

I'd say a inch over is miles too much oil. Chances of getting away without a massive bill is slim.

hi5

An inch isn't that much, it all depends on whether the crank hits it when turning, if it does, it will cause it to foam, meaning air instead of oil gets pumped through the oil ways.
How long has it been overfilled?

corktina

I'd say it wont start because the computer thinks something is wrong. It may be just a case of re-setting the computer, I hope so. Have a good xmas anyway.

bbam

Thanks lads.
I see oil round the engine bay so I know it's not a simple drain and start.

No warnings showing on the display, just won't start.

It was odd.
Low oil pressure light came on.
Checked dipstick and it was clean.
Topped up and still nothing showing.
Topped up and still nothing.
Started car, stopped and still nothing on dipstick.
Topped it up again and stopped when midway in dipstick. About 2l of oil total.

Herself drove 4 miles to town and no bother.
Then half way back it started to over rev , plume of smoke and she pulled in and stopped it.

Spoke to mechanic and he said it's a common problem that they are a torture to top up and it can happen easily. He doesn't hold out much hope if an easy fix.

I feel quite stupid, suck a rookie mistake

Anan1

If it was driven with the low oil pressure light on then the damage was quite possibly done before you ever touched it. It could be that the running without oil wore the engine to the point of runaway: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine_runaway

Sorry to hear anyway, try not to let it ruin your Christmas.

debabyjesus

corktina wrote: »

I'd say it wont start because the computer thinks something is wrong. It may be just a case of re-setting the computer, I hope so. Have a good xmas anyway.

Some Peugeots wont start if the ecu sees low oil or coolant so citroen possibly the same

grainnewhale

bbam wrote: »

Thanks lads.
I see oil round the engine bay so I know it's not a simple drain and start.

No warnings showing on the display, just won't start.

It was odd.
Low oil pressure light came on.
Checked dipstick and it was clean.
Topped up and still nothing showing.
Topped up and still nothing.
Started car, stopped and still nothing on dipstick.
Topped it up again and stopped when midway in dipstick. About 2l of oil total.

Herself drove 4 miles to town and no bother.
Then half way back it started to over rev , plume of smoke and she pulled in and stopped it.

Spoke to mechanic and he said it's a common problem that they are a torture to top up and it can happen easily. He doesn't hold out much hope if an easy fix.

I feel quite stupid, suck a rookie mistake

wheres the oil coming out. is the oil leaking at turbo or breather. there must be a reason it was so low in the first place.

ION08

Oil pressure light? Overfilled oil? The words car and abuse come to mind. God forbid I ever buy a used car for a person that had "maintained" their car to this standard.

mickdw

It doesn't make alot of sense to me how you say nothing was registering on the dipstick after alot of the 2l (total you added) was gone in yet suddenly is overfilled massively.
Was the car on a slope when you were filling it?

Wheelnut

I think it will be OK.

@ION08: Totally unhelpful post.

Row

If this is the 1.6 hdi and theres oil over the top of the engine then it sounds like the camchain has worn tru the top of the cambox due to poor servicing+&incorrect oil been used....:(

Is the oil all over the drivers side of the engine...?

In the meantime happy Christmas to all....;)

SleeperService

ION08 wrote: »

Oil pressure light? Overfilled oil? The words car and abuse come to mind. God forbid I ever buy a used car for a person that had "maintained" their car to this standard.

Mint. Daysul. Miser on fuel. Bargin. L@@k.



Cheep tax...

kona

ION08 wrote: »

Oil pressure light? Overfilled oil? The words car and abuse come to mind. God forbid I ever buy a used car for a person that had "maintained" their car to this standard.

That's why you have to be able to spot them , simple questions like when have you changed the oil sort it out

kona

Wheelnut wrote: »

I think it will be OK.

@ION08: Totally unhelpful post.

Lol it will be ok after running away!? Dear god his post is more helpful than yours

kona

mickdw wrote: »

It doesn't make alot of sense to me how you say nothing was registering on the dipstick after alot of the 2l (total you added) was gone in yet suddenly is overfilled massively.
Was the car on a slope when you were filling it?

He filled it, effectively ran the pump , few litres of oil out of the sump, then measured.
I'm being harsh here(not to you). But you need to have some clue of how things work.

Once low pressure comes on your ****ed

corkgsxr

kona wrote: »

He filled it, effectively ran the pump , few litres of oil out of the sump, then measured.
I'm being harsh here(not to you). But you need to have some clue of how things work.

Once low pressure comes on your ****ed

Its depends on how low a pressure. Like did it come on borderline or complete loss.

Wheelnut

kona wrote: »

Lol it will be ok after running away!? Dear god his post is more helpful than yours

Let me explain it to you:

Start with the knowledge that on most cars the space between MIN and MAX on the dip-stick takes about one litre of oil. bbam tells us that the oil level is about an inch over the MAX, he also tells us that the distance between MIN and MAX on his car is about 1.5 inches. That indicates to me that the engine is over-filled by about 2/3 of a litre, not enough to cause a runaway.

bbam also tells us that he put in about 2 litres of oil. That indicates to me that the oil was about 1/3 of a litre below MIN before he topped up. That is not low enough to put on the oil pressure light, it probably put on the oil level light.

bbam says that the engine seemed to do a runaway while his wife was driving it so she stopped it. Unless his wife is a skilled mechanic it's very unlikely that she stopped a runaway. Some oil may have got into the cylinders but I doubt it was a runaway.

So I repeat my original view, I think it will be OK.

bbam

Thanks for the comments folks.
The car wasn't driven with the low oils level warning on.
It came on outside the house and that's where I made a mess if topping up the oil.

It was on a level surface when it was done and cool.

There was no oil on the engine before this incident, I know from topping up washer fluid.

I didn't get much of a look as to where the oil came out as it was blowing a blizzard here when I towed it in, and it was Christmas Eve and I just wanted it in off the road safe.

As for the comments on abusing the car I think that's OTT, yes I put my hands up to making a mistake. But other than this event our vehicles are well maintained and passed on in top condition. I've put in excess of 200k on cars in the past and kept them just fine.

We all make mistakes.

Wheelnut

@ bbam: Let us know the diagnosis when you get it looked at.

bbam

Hi folks.
Thought I'd circle back on this.

I have the car back from garage.
The injectors needed rebuilding at a cost of €485 and €200 labour for work done.
Car is running fine. Mechanic drove for a half day and no fault codes reappearing.

He recommends running for 500 miles and changing oil and filter again and pulling in the change on the timing belt as a precaution.

But he is confident that there should be no lasting problems beyond the work done.

Expensive lesson learned, but it could have been much, much worse.
Hopefully as he thinks, no other gremlins appear as a result.

Wheelnut

Thanks for coming back on that bbam, poor Kona is going to be very disappointed.

jca

bbam wrote: »

Hi folks.
Thought I'd circle back on this.

I have the car back from garage.
The injectors needed rebuilding at a cost of €485 and €200 labour for work done.
Car is running fine. Mechanic drove for a half day and no fault codes reappearing.

He recommends running for 500 miles and changing oil and filter again and pulling in the change on the timing belt as a precaution.

But he is confident that there should be no lasting problems beyond the work done.

Expensive lesson learned, but it could have been much, much worse.
Hopefully as he thinks, no other gremlins appear as a result.

So it had nothing to do with the overfilled oil at all:pac:

bbam

jca wrote: »

So it had nothing to do with the overfilled oil at all:pac:

Who said that?
Obviously the injectors were knackered when it ran away.

Seems like some would be happier if the car was knackered, just to teach me a lesson, and of course so they can be right about absolutely everything !!

jca

bbam wrote: »

Who said that?
Obviously the injectors were knackered when it ran away.

Seems like some would be happier if the car was knackered, just to teach me a lesson, and of course so they can be right about absolutely everything !!

A bad injector or injectors won't cause an engine to run away. Do you know what an engine runaway is?

grainnewhale

jca wrote: »

A bad injector or injectors won't cause an engine to run away. Do you know what an engine runaway is?

wrong.
the diesel was pissing through injector and filling sump with diesel which was coming out through breather into air intake.

jca

An engine runaway is when the engine starts to run on its own engine oil usually via the turbo shaft, the revs keep climbing until something breaks or it burns all the oil in the sump. Turning the key won't make any difference because the engine isn't running on diesel. In your case it was much better because switching off the key will stop the flow of diesel and you've a much better chance of stopping the engine. All I meant was, it wasn't you topping up the sump with oil that caused the problem in the first place.

Renegade Mechanic

jca wrote: »

A bad injector or injectors won't cause an engine to run away. Do you know what an engine runaway is?

Exess fuel. Be it oil or diesel will run an engine away. An injector stuck open will supply enough fuel to make an engine begin to run but it is extremely rough, having one cylinder on full power and the other three on much less. This shuddering usually surprises the driver who switches off the ignition. The reving engine then dies but only because the one fuelling cylinder cant overpower the pumping lossess of the other three dead cylinders. The main reason the vehicle doesnt start afterwards is because on a modern common rail diesel, with an injector stuck open, the fuel rail feeding the injectors cannot reach high enough pressures to start the car. On a modern diesel, the ecu reads the low pressure from a rail sensor and keeps the car from starting.

Renegade Mechanic

grainnewhale wrote: »

wrong.
the diesel was pissing through injector and filling sump with diesel which was coming out through breather into air intake.

Also true of a Suzuki vitara I had to rebuild. I took 13 litres of "engine oil" out of the sump :eek:

jca

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Exess fuel. Be it oil or diesel will run an engine away. An injector stuck open will supply enough fuel to make an engine begin to run but it is extremely rough, having one cylinder on full power and the other three on much less. This shuddering usually surprises the driver who switches off the ignition. The reving engine then dies but only because the one fuelling cylinder cant overpower the pumping lossess of the other three dead cylinders. The reason the vehicle doesnt start afterwards is because On with an injector stuck open, the pressure cannot reach high enough pressures to start the car. On a modern diesel, the ecu reads the low pressure from a rail sensor and keeps the car from starting.

You're a better typist than me. Very well explained. An oil runaway is much scarier and potentially more destructive because switching off at the key has no effect.

Renegade Mechanic

jca wrote: »

You're a better typist than me. Very well explained. An oil runaway is much scarier and potentially more destructive because switching off at the key has no effect.

Absolutely. If its an oil fed runaway, you have about five seconds to stop and use your clutch and stall it. Miss that window and Just run away!. Can you imagine it happening on an auto......

bbam

bbam wrote: »

Who said that?
Obviously the injectors were knackered when it ran away.

Seems like some would be happier if the car was knackered, just to teach me a lesson, and of course so they can be right about absolutely everything !!

jca wrote: »

A bad injector or injectors won't cause an engine to run away. Do you know what an engine runaway is?

We're at crossed wires here..
Yes, I know all too well at this stage what an engine runaway is, I was blyssfully ignorant of it before this incident, but now I've been learned well..

I was saying the injectors were knackered as a result of the runaway..

grainnewhale

bbam wrote: »

We're at crossed wires here..
Yes, I know all too well at this stage what an engine runaway is, I was blyssfully ignorant of it before this incident, but now I've been learned well..

I was saying the injectors were knackered as a result of the runaway..[/QUOTE]

no the injector caused the runaway.

jca

bbam wrote: »

We're at crossed wires here..
Yes, I know all too well at this stage what an engine runaway is, I was blyssfully ignorant of it before this incident, but now I've been learned well..

I was saying the injectors were knackered as a result of the runaway..

So to recap. According to your mechanic the overfilling of oil caused the runaway in the first place and as a result of the excessive speeds it wrecked the injectors? How did you stop the engine when it started to race? Jesus you were one lucky family. It usually ends with a bang and many phone calls to the breakers yards.

Renegade Mechanic

bbam wrote: »

*****Seems like some would be happier if the car was knackered, just to teach me a lesson*****

Welcom to the motors forum!:p If cars ran on spite, this place would be Europe's Saudi Arabia!:D

bbam

jca wrote: »

So to recap. According to your mechanic the overfilling of oil caused the runaway in the first place and as a result of the excessive speeds it wrecked the injectors? How did you stop the engine when it started to race? Jesus you were one lucky family. It usually ends with a bang and many phone calls to the breakers yards.

Both the mechanic and the guy who rebuilt the injectors were on the same opinion that indeed the overfill of oil caused the runaway which then damaged the injectors..

If you had read the initial posts you'd have seen that my mrs was driving the car so no "lucky escape" for the family, she's an experienced driver and pulled over and stopped the car when the runaway started, the mechanic said that if it had gone on for long that she likely wouldnt have been able to stop the engine..

TBH, I'm getting bored here... two people who actually worked on the car/injectors both had the same reasoning as to what happened.. but by some miracle through your keyboard you think you know better than both of them... :cool:

jca

bbam wrote: »

Both the mechanic and the guy who rebuilt the injectors were on the same opinion that indeed the overfill of oil caused the runaway which then damaged the injectors..

If you had read the initial posts you'd have seen that my mrs was driving the car so no "lucky escape" for the family, she's an experienced driver and pulled over and stopped the car when the runaway started, the mechanic said that if it had gone on for long that she likely wouldnt have been able to stop the engine..

TBH, I'm getting bored here... two people who actually worked on the car/injectors both had the same reasoning as to what happened.. but by some miracle through your keyboard you think you know better than both of them... :cool:

I did read the thread from the start. I don't see why you're being so aggressive in your reply's. All I said to you was that you were lucky it ended so well. A lot of people would have panicked leading to the engine's demise especially when it was an oil fuelled runaway.

CJhaughey

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Absolutely. If its an oil fed runaway, you have about five seconds to stop and use your clutch and stall it. Miss that window and Just run away!. Can you imagine it happening on an auto......

Imagine it happening on a Caterpillar D349 generator producing 1100hp
Run far and fast...

jca

CJhaughey wrote: »

Imagine it happening on a Caterpillar D349 generator producing 1100hp
Run far and fast...

There's some great runaway videos on YouTube. Just glad it ain't me...

Dubl07

Serious question from a petrol engine driver who rarely drives a diesel. If runaway starts and that window of opportunity is missed, what are the driver's options?

jca

Dubl07 wrote: »

Serious question from a petrol engine driver who rarely drives a diesel. If runaway starts and that window of opportunity is missed, what are the driver's options?

Stall it by putting it into 4th gear keeping your foot hard on the brakes let the clutch out rapidly.

Renegade Mechanic

jca wrote: »

Stall it by putting it into 4th gear keeping your foot hard on the brakes let the clutch out rapidly.

I think thats the window hes referring to. Once its fully taken off, popping the clutch usually just destroys it leaving the engine to continue.

jca

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

I think thats the window hes referring to. Once its fully taken off, popping the clutch usually just destroys it leaving the engine to continue.

Get out your phone and put it on YouTube

CJhaughey

Dubl07 wrote: »

Serious question from a petrol engine driver who rarely drives a diesel. If runaway starts and that window of opportunity is missed, what are the driver's options?

If you dare, you could pop the bonnet and stuff something into the intake to block it, or use a Co2 extinguisher into the intake, IC engines won't run well on Co2;)

visual

Putting engine in to high gear with breaks applied firmly and popping the clutch to stall engine is another way of stalling a runaway engine.

dmc17

Dubl07 wrote: »

Serious question from a petrol engine driver who rarely drives a diesel. If runaway starts and that window of opportunity is missed, what are the driver's options?

Make like the engine and runaway!