Teenage girl dies on street from peanut allergy

Gyalist

Emma (14) was out for a pre-Christmas meal with her family when she accidentally ate a nut-based sauce and suffered a severe allergic reaction

But when her mother rushed to a nearby pharmacy to get help, she was refused a life-saving adrenaline injection because she didn't have a prescription.

The distraught mother was told to bring her daughter to hospital but the two had only got a few yards away when the teenager collapsed.

Emma's mother, Caroline, told the Irish Independent: "I'm so angry I was not given the epipen to inject her. I was told to bring Emma to an A&E department.

LINK

RIP Emma, and my heartfelt condolences to her family and friends.

This story has me really shaken as my teenaged son has a severe nut allergy and this is the stuff of my worst nightmares.

If that's accurate about the pharmacy not giving out the shot, well, yeah, not much can be said about it. I'll await the usual by-the-bookers to come along though.

osarusan

Horrible story. The stuff of nightmares.

Why didn't the mother/parents have the necessary medication themselves though?

I'd have thought that for allergies like these, carrying the medicine around for an emergency would have been acceptable to doctors, surely.

Dave0301

Pharmacy should have given the epipen, the girl should have had an epipen with her as well tho.

shruikan2553

Terrible thing to happen but if you have an allergy that can kill you you should always have the medication with you and ask before ordering anything.

biko

Unfortunately chemists can't give out drugs like that. Maybe this will bring out some emergency legislation but it's too late for Emma now.

Poor parents

osarusan

osarusan wrote: »

Horrible story. The stuff of nightmares.

Why didn't the mother/parents have the necessary medication themselves though?

I'd have thought that for allergies like these, carrying the medicine around for an emergency would have been acceptable to doctors, surely.

They could've left it at home. Things like these will happen eventually, if you think of someone who leaves the house twice a day to go somewhere, and not including along the way, that's 4 opportunities a day to forget to carry something, about 1500 per year. Once in a while the worst will happen to someone and it will coincide with not having their device.

Plazaman

Prescription needed pharmacy assistant should be brought to task on this. An obvious emergency overrides all bureaucracy.

Gyalist

Deleted User wrote: »

If that's accurate about the pharmacy not giving out the shot, well, yeah, not much can be said about it. I'll await the usual by-the-bookers to come along though.

My son is supposed to carry his Anapen with him at all times but sometimes doesn't. The reported reaction by the pharmacy doesn't surprise me though as I've come across many medical people who are uninformed about anaphylactic shock and how quickly it can become fatal.

The Pheasant2

I understand the need for all the restrictions etc. when giving out drugs but if my daughter was about to die I think I'd be vaulting over the counter and taking the adrenaline myself

I don't want to sound cold - obviously this is a tragic event for her family and friends.

But I think it's beyond unfair to blame the pharmacy. The family, including Emma, knew that she had a severe peanut allergy. She chose something with peanuts in it, and no one had her epipen with them. Those are the two oversights that lead to her reaction. It's a more than understandable mistake to make, but it's not up to the pharmacy to hand out serious medication like that to people that come in off the street with no prescription. I can understand her mother feeling distraught about it, but I think it's irresponsible for the Independent to publish what reads a lot like an accusation against the pharmacy.

SEPT 23 1989

I would have gone in over the counter and faced the consequences later

This will be a living nightmare for the mother RIP

osarusan

Deleted User wrote: »

They could've left it at home. Things like these will happen eventually, if you think of someone who leaves the house twice a day to go somewhere, and not including along the way, that's 4 opportunities a day to forget to carry something, about 1500 per year. Once in a while the worst will happen to someone and it will coincide with not having their device.

My father was stung by a whole loads of bees one time, and nearly died. As a result, for a few year after, even one sting could have killed him, so he carried some 'antidote' pills round his neck at all times. I appreciate that this is much easier than carrying a syringe though.

From the pharmacy's perspective, say they give the injection 5 times - the first 4, they save somebody's life, and get a deserved pat on the back. The 5th turns out not to be the allergic reaction everybody thought it was, rather a different condition, and the injection kills them. The pharmacy is probably facing a massive massive lawsuit.

i can't help but think though, that if my family (including my child with this allergy) was going out for dinner rather than eating food cooked at home, I'd be bringing the medicine with me, and moreover, not letting anybody at the table order anything with nuts in it (it says she ate it by mistake, so not sure how it ended up at the table).

Turtwig

Plazaman wrote: »

Prescription needed pharmacy assistant should be brought to task on this. An obvious emergency overrides all bureaucracy.

That's the problem though the obvious emergency isn't obvious enough to some. I highly doubt if the pharmacy thought she was going to die they'd have refused it. This smacks more of naivety than strict adherence to bureaucracy.

camel jockey

This is a very unfortunate story. Unfortunately I think the mother, in her grief, is not looking at this clearly, which is to be expected.

3 things went wrong, she is focusing on the one that was out of her or the daughters control.

Sympathy to all concerned, including the staff member at the pharmacy.

Dravokivich

osarusan wrote: »

Why didn't the mother/parents have the necessary medication themselves though?

They did have some. Unfortunately, it had been left behind somewhere else though.

Plazaman wrote: »

Prescription needed pharmacy assistant should be brought to task on this. An obvious emergency overrides all bureaucracy.

A pharmacist, or even more likely a pharmaceutical technician are not in a position to judge an emergency situation.

true-or-false wrote: »

I don't want to sound cold - obviously this is a tragic event for her family and friends.

But I think it's beyond unfair to blame the pharmacy. The family, including Emma, knew that she had a severe peanut allergy. She chose something with peanuts in it, and no one had her epipen with them. Those are the two oversights that lead to her reaction. It's a more than understandable mistake to make, but it's not up to the pharmacy to hand out serious medication like that to people that come in off the street with no prescription. I can understand her mother feeling distraught about it, but I think it's irresponsible for the Independent to publish what reads a lot like an accusation against the pharmacy.

I don't think it reads like that. It is just relaying the facts and the devastation that this poor girls mother is going through.

However, I would have expected that the pharmacy kept them in, while awaiting an ambulance, which could have gotten to them quicker, than running to a hospital, while the girl was in no condition to do so.

Ginny

Knowing the pharmacy in question I can understand how it happened, that pharmacy/staff have a terrible time on O'Connell St. That pharmacist that helped me when I was pregnant and prescribed discontinued drugs and I needed them urgently. He rang around all the other local pharmacies to see who had any in stock so I didn't have to go looking at 37 weeks, while the hospital and other pharmacies just said they didn't have them and sent me on my way. Sadly his hands were tied, I understand how he could have assessed the situation better, but after spending some time in that pharmacy they are besieged with addicts robbing the place left right and centre and chancing their arm, it's a pharmacy that usually has to have a security guard, which is necessary and ridiculous!

Aestivalis

Instead of running to a pharmacy and then contemplating running to the A&E, the mother should have phoned 999 immediately.
Ambulance would have been there with an epi-pen sooner.

Pharmacists cant give out such medications like that. Adrenaline is a dangerous drug if used incorrectly, and as mentioned above, pharmacists arent in a position to be paramedics.

Ginny

Ginny wrote: »

Knowing the pharmacy in question I can understand how it happened, that pharmacy/staff have a terrible time on O'Connell St. That pharmacist that helped me when I was pregnant and prescribed discontinued drugs and I needed them urgently. He rang around all the other local pharmacies to see who had any in stock so I didn't have to go looking at 37 weeks, while the hospital and other pharmacies just said they didn't have them and sent me on my way. Sadly his hands were tied, I understand how he could have assessed the situation better, but after spending some time in that pharmacy they are besieged with addicts robbing the place left right and centre and chancing their arm, it's a pharmacy that usually has to have a security guard, which is necessary and ridiculous!

Walking past that pharmacy fairly regularly makes me think it's funny how by-the-book they were in this particular case.

Aestivalis

Aestivalis wrote: »

Instead of running to a pharmacy and then contemplating running to the A&E, the mother should have phoned 999 immediately.
Ambulance would have been there with an epi-pen sooner..

Taxi would be quicker than an ambulance.

Riskymove

osarusan wrote: »

From the pharmacy's perspective, say they give the injection 5 times - the first 4, they save somebody's life, and get a deserved pat on the back. The 5th turns out not to be the allergic reaction everybody thought it was, rather a different condition, and the injection kills them. The pharmacy is probably facing a massive massive lawsuit.

unfortunatekly this is probably a big factor

at the same time I think I'd be pretty sympatheitic to them....I am sure they are very traumatised too as to what subsequently happened

i can't help but think though, that if my family (including my child with this allergy) was going out for dinner rather than eating food cooked at home, I'd be bringing the medicine with me, and moreover, not letting anybody at the table order anything with nuts in it (it says she ate it by mistake, so not sure how it ended up at the table).

hindsight is everything and I think many people will get a rather tragic reminder about bringing these things with them as a result of this

on the radio this morning the suggestion was she simply poured a different sauce (satay) than what she though she was (curry) pouring....as simple a mistake as that

danniemcq

Deleted User wrote: »

If that's accurate about the pharmacy not giving out the shot, well, yeah, not much can be said about it. I'll await the usual by-the-bookers to come along though.

at work i had to write a letter to the first aid people to allow them to stab me with my pen in the leg.

its stupid how people are afraid of getting sued or whatever if they do something without permission.

It makes me sick to my stomach thinking about this.

camel jockey

DannieHasAFanny wrote: »

its stupid how people are afraid of getting sued or whatever if they do something without permission.

:rolleyes:

Aestivalis

Deleted User wrote: »

Taxi would be quicker than an ambulance.

In Dublin on a wednesday evening, it would fair out a lot better than the rest of the country.
Plus, ambulances have trained paramedics with medication and equipment to deal with it. Rather than bundling somebody into a taxi and hoping for the best as you drag them into the a&e reception 15 mins later.

Riskymove

DannieHasAFanny wrote: »

at work i had to write a letter to the first aid people to allow them to stab me with my pen in the leg.

its stupid how people are afraid of getting sued or whatever if they do something without permission.

It makes me sick to my stomach thinking about this.

unfortunately thats Ireland for you...its not really the first aid people's faulkt but the people who would sue someone for trying to help them

we need a Good Samaritan law for it to be any other way

danniemcq

osarusan wrote: »

From the pharmacy's perspective, say they give the injection 5 times - the first 4, they save somebody's life, and get a deserved pat on the back. The 5th turns out not to be the allergic reaction everybody thought it was, rather a different condition, and the injection kills them. The pharmacy is probably facing a massive massive lawsuit.

Doesn't work that way, if the shot kills you then you would have died a long time ago.

When i was first diagnosed as hyper something or other sensitive to nuts (the smell makes me sick) I asked the doc what would happen if i thought i was having an attack and took it but i wasn't actually having an attack.

Nothing happens bar you get an adrenaline rush. The same natural reaction that happens when you get scared or go on a roller coaster or have to run away from the guards.

All it is is a more concentrated dose being injected into muscles. You won't die from the shot as your own body would have killed you long long ago

DannieHasAFanny

DannieHasAFanny wrote: »

at work i had to write a letter to the first aid people to allow them to stab me with my pen in the leg.

its stupid how people are afraid of getting sued or whatever if they do something without permission.

It makes me sick to my stomach thinking about this.

I thought of you immediately this morning when I heard this news

camel jockey wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Awesome contribution there.

danniemcq

Riskymove wrote: »

unfortunately thats Ireland for you...its not really the first aid people's faulkt but the people who would sue someone for trying to help them

we need a Good Samaritan law for it to be any other way

we do have a good Samaritan law, thats the thing

http://www.thejournal.ie/new-civil-law-bill-might-just-make-us-nicer-people-163046-Jun2011/

http://www.imt.ie/opinion/2012/02/new-protection-for-volunteers-and-good-samaritans.html

camel jockey

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought of you immediately this morning when I heard this news



Awesome contribution there.

Thanks. The comment I quoted was so stupid I couldn't think of anything to say, so I let the smilie do the talking.

shruikan2553

Riskymove wrote: »

unfortunately thats Ireland for you...its not really the first aid people's faulkt but the people who would sue someone for trying to help them

we need a Good Samaritan law for it to be any other way

As far as I know we do. Was told as long as we were trying to help someone using a method we are trained in then we cannot be sued.

camel jockey

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought of you immediately this morning when I heard this news

Equally awesome !!! Well done.

Stone Deaf 4evr

DannieHasAFanny wrote: »

Doesn't work that way, if the shot kills you then you would have died a long time ago.

When i was first diagnosed as hyper something or other sensitive to nuts (the smell makes me sick) I asked the doc what would happen if i thought i was having an attack and took it but i wasn't actually having an attack.

Nothing happens bar you get an adrenaline rush. The same natural reaction that happens when you get scared or go on a roller coaster or have to run away from the guards.

All it is is a more concentrated dose being injected into muscles. You won't die from the shot as your own body would have killed you long long ago

Its unfair to expect a pharmacist to have that kind of information off the top of their head though. Its a terribly sad thing to happen, and so close to christmas as well.

Gyalist

Aestivalis wrote: »

In Dublin on a wednesday evening, it would fair out a lot better than the rest of the country.
Plus, ambulances have trained paramedics with medication and equipment to deal with it. Rather than bundling somebody into a taxi and hoping for the best as you drag them into the a&e reception 15 mins later.

Not only this, but once the call for the ambulance is made the hospital begins to prepare for resuscitation, or that is my experience when my son was taken to Crumlin a few years ago. He bypassed triage to where a teams of medics had already prepared for his arrival.

Turtwig

DannieHasAFanny wrote: »

Doesn't work that way, if the shot kills you then you would have died a long time ago.

When i was first diagnosed as hyper something or other sensitive to nuts (the smell makes me sick) I asked the doc what would happen if i thought i was having an attack and took it but i wasn't actually having an attack.

Nothing happens bar you get an adrenaline rush. The same natural reaction that happens when you get scared or go on a roller coaster or have to run away from the guards.

All it is is a more concentrated dose being injected into muscles. You won't die from the shot as your own body would have killed you long long ago

There is a danger though with the shot used improperly e.g intravenously instantly, killing you. I can't think of many medications that go into that category.

Professey Chin

Jernal wrote: »

There is a danger though with the shot used improperly e.g intravenously instantly, killing you. I can't think of many medications that go into that category.

Is there only specifc places the shot can be given? With bad results otherwise?

camel jockey

camel jockey wrote: »

:rolleyes:

camel jockey wrote: »

Thanks. The comment I quoted was so stupid I couldn't think of anything to say, so I let the smilie do the talking.

The smiley made your post look a lot more stupid than his.

If a comment is "so stupid", try challenging it intelligently.

Riskymove

DannieHasAFanny wrote: »

we do have a good Samaritan law, thats the thing

http://www.thejournal.ie/new-civil-law-bill-might-just-make-us-nicer-people-163046-Jun2011/

http://www.imt.ie/opinion/2012/02/new-protection-for-volunteers-and-good-samaritans.html

thanks for that I hadn't realised that

I'm not sure it covers a situation like that which occured yesterday though - i.e. allowing someone to dispense emergency medicine.

Be interesting to here more about that though.

Turtwig

camel jockey wrote: »

Thanks. The comment I quoted was so stupid I couldn't think of anything to say, so I let the smilie do the talking.

What was stupid about it?

DannieHasAFanny

DannieHasAFanny wrote: »

its stupid how people are afraid of getting sued or whatever if they do something without permission.

It's not the scared person's fault, it's the fault of the people who would sue you even if you were saving their life without permission. Anyway, it's not all about suing, there's also the possibility that there's been a misdiagnosis, or that you're being manipulated.

DannieHasAFanny wrote: »

Nothing happens bar you get an adrenaline rush. The same natural reaction that happens when you get scared or go on a roller coaster or have to run away from the guards.

All it is is a more concentrated dose being injected into muscles. You won't die from the shot as your own body would have killed you long long ago

But you're looking at peanut allergy vs. no peanut allergy. What if the person looks like they're having anaphylactic shock but is in fact suffering from something else. Adrenaline can be very dangerous in some circumstances. Not if you're healthy, but surely if you're in a situation where someone is considering giving you an epipen shot and you're not having an allergy reaction there must be something else very wrong.

ibarelycare

I was on O'Connell Street the other night just as the fire engine was arriving, the poor girl was dying while surrounded by crowds of gawkers At the time I thought it was an old person who had collapsed while shopping, but I was so sad this morning to read that a 14-year-old had died.

My heart goes out to the family, and to the pharmacist, although I feel that they really should have been able to help.

Ocean Blue

Gyalist wrote: »

Not only this, but once the call for the ambulance is made the hospital begins to prepare for resucitation, or that is my experience when my son was taken to Crumlin a few years ago. He bypassed triage to where a teams of medics had already prepared for his arrival.

If you inform 999 that there is a case of anaphylaxis it is automatically treated as a priority call and paramedics will be ready to go with adrenaline.

Karl Stein

If I was the pharmacist I would have said 'This is an epipen, your daughter should have one, we can't release it without prescription' and then left it on the counter and turned my back and whistled a happy tune while she ran out of the shop with it.

username123

Deleted User wrote: »

Taxi would be quicker than an ambulance.

Taxis dont have trained paramedics or the ability to go through red lights. When you make an emergency call, the nature of the emergency is detailed to the department the ambulance will be bringing you to so if it is a situation where time is a factor, the staff will already be prepared for your arrival. Meanwhile in the ambulance the paramedics will be providing emergency care (in this case they would have administered the injection immediately).

If you take a taxi, you are at the mercy of walking into A&E with no one expecting you, no one knowing anything about your condition, a queue of people ahead of you at the reception desk etc...

truebluesac

Im a paramedic and am involved with pharmisist training and this is a true tragidey of circumstances ,

Yes the girl and / parents should have had the medication .

Pharmisists have slight medical oversight and could have dispensed this medication . However they are not all train in their use and are not allowed to administer this medidication ( some are who carried out the influenza vacination program )

The pharmacy most likely has a policy of no medications being despenced without a perscription with no exception .

An ambulace should have been called as epi is a carried and administered drug by paramedics .

Anyway a tragady all the same . Rest in peace

Eight Ball

R.I.P. The poor little thing god only knows how the parents feel.

camel jockey

Jernal wrote: »

What was stupid about it?

I would have thought it was fairly obvious. The reason people are afraid of being sued is because there is a risk of it happening, and they want to mitigate the risk. You may not sue but the next person might. Why should that person or the organization risk suffering financially as a result of saving your life? So they get people to sigh waivers. If they didn't then someone might sue.

If the world wasn't full of chancers and scumbags then there would be no need for this, but it is, so there is a need for it.

seamus

Plazaman wrote: »

Prescription needed pharmacy assistant should be brought to task on this. An obvious emergency overrides all bureaucracy.

You don't know it was an obvious emergency though.

We'd all like to think that we'd spot it straight away, but if the girl didn't look like she was specifically in need of an epipen, then the pharmacist (let's be honest it could have been an 18 year old behind the counter) can't really risk handing out an epi shot lest it make her condition worse.

It's especially difficult given the location, I'm sure pharmacies on O'Connell St spend their days fending off very convincing attempts by junkies to scam medication.

What's probably required is some form of alert system, like medic alert bracelets where someone with an allergy can present a card at a pharmacy and the pharmacist will administer the shot.

A difficult tragedy alright, especially given how avoidable it was.

shruikan2553

Riskymove wrote: »

thanks for that I hadn't realised that

I'm not sure it covers a situation like that which occured yesterday though - i.e. allowing someone to dispense emergency medicine.

Be interesting to here more about that though.

At most I'd say they could have used it on the girl themselves but I'm not sure if they are trained for that or if its just because my aunt works with chemo sometimes she is trained in injecting medicine.

Theta

DannieHasAFanny wrote: »

When i was first diagnosed as hyper something or other sensitive to nuts (the smell makes me sick) I asked the doc what would happen if i thought i was having an attack and took it but i wasn't actually having an attack.

First Aiders aren't even supposed to administer someones inhaler, your supposed to hand it to them and "assist"

truebluesac

username123 wrote: »

Taxis dont have trained paramedics or the ability to go through red lights. When you make an emergency call, the nature of the emergency is detailed to the department the ambulance will be bringing you to so if it is a situation where time is a factor, the staff will already be prepared for your arrival. Meanwhile in the ambulance the paramedics will be providing emergency care (in this case they would have administered the injection immediately).

If you take a taxi, you are at the mercy of walking into A&E with no one expecting you, no one knowing anything about your condition, a queue of people ahead of you at the reception desk etc...

The a&e are only told by the controle room if the ambulance deems it is nessary . If you arrive by ambulance for anything other than a life saving aliment you are triaged like everyone else . This case however would have been rang ahead and a team waiting in the resus

danniemcq

Jernal wrote: »

There is a danger though with the shot used improperly e.g intravenously instantly, killing you. I can't think of many medications that go into that category.

Its pretty damn hard to mess up one of these shots (granted someone would roughly have to know where it has to go) but the fleshy part of the thigh is where its jammed (the needle is fairly small enough to go through a pair of jeans really) and the button pressed down for 10 seconds.

IIRC there are some allergies (shellfish) that require a pulp fiction style needle in the heart