Obama 5 years-Verdict so far?

stpaddy99

So hows he done so far in your opinion?

The left in Europe generally like him as a person but not so much as a politician...but he gets serious criticism for not doing enough, for not it seems being socialist enough, for not doing enough in many many areas , not bridging the rich poor gap , not doing enough across the globe Africa , middle east etc

the left and right are not happy with the way obamacare has started and the delays and losses of old health polices is looking like a cock up, but is it along term cock up?

then there is the failed government projects, the invasion of rights of privacy over private emails and phone calls etc then theres guanatanamo why isn't it closed? why has he failed to get more bills through the house quicker...has he failed o communicate and compromise with his opponents the way bill Clinton did?

then there are drone strikes, many think theyre simply disgusting , illegal mass murder
unemployment is down but its not down in poorer areas and minorities

I know guys like George Galloway think hes a waste of space....in particular that he is Israel biased , he doesn't act on his rhetoric to make radical changes...some say hes a ditherer, some say hes weak, some say Hilary would have been better

etc To be honest Im not sure what it is the left dislike altogether but its often negative


the right in America well they want to stick his head on a spike
they say hes too socialist, too wasteful, too weak, too cocky to compromise and communicate....they also say hes simply dishonest over his healthcare promises and the Benghazi affair.....the enormous us debt of over 17 trillion
the unemployment ....

on the upside at least on the surface

economy - in 5 years unemployment down from 10.5% to 7% (but many fell off the register)
the stock market has more than doubled in value in 5 years, that's pretty amazing
-most new jobs are in small to medium business as he lowered business taxes on them
-raised income tax on the rich
-tightened regulations on corporations , financial instutions, housing developers and banks.....
-world record fines for banking corruption, last week $19 billion fine for JP morgan....BP fined billions for their spillage, goldman sachs fined several hundred million etc
-Increased tariffs on Chinese imports

foreign policy
-ended the Iraq qar
-pretty much ended the afghan war
-Got OBL, assisted in ghadaffi
-Got 100s of other terrorist leaders
-at leats avoided more incursions and wars....investigated 22 of 23 Syrian weapons sites so far....some say too little too late
-agreed new Iranian nuclear deal....some say its a great step forward. Israel says its a crazy destabilizing move
-agreed with Russia to disarmour 40% nuclear missiles
-reducing military udged by estimated 2 trillion dollars
-withdrew Europe wide wepaons system...good or bad?
-invested trillion+ into US infrastructure..roads, transport,schools, green energy, etc.which saw their car manufacturers go back to world number 1
-ended bush torture policies
-invested billions in reducing fuel pollution
-increased payments to vet soldiers
-reduced government employees overall
-took unemployment benefits off some long term who were proved not sick
-allowed stem cell advancements
-Guantanamo is 40% reduced
-allowed gay marriage
-obamacare

the biggest government project of all time....started very badly
its in danger of seeing tens of millions uninsured in the next few months.
BUT if it gets through the initial period, the ultimate goal is insurance for everyone , including the 50 million poorest who had none before...this story will run and run and run.......

what do u reckon? has he delivered?

Sunglasses Ron

stpaddy99 wrote: »

So hows he done so far in your opinion?

I think he is great personally. Unemployment has nearly halved under his watch. You should check the comments section on the Daily Mail US articles, his detractors are pretty funny :pac: S across the globe Africa , middle east etc

, the invasion of rights of privacy over private emails and phone calls etc

The NSA has been running the Echelon programme since at the very least the late 1990's. The US government has admitted multiple times in the following years that it does randomly monitor a plethora of phone and intetnet communications worldwide- when they used to release their near weekly "heightened alert" colour coded warnings post 9/11 they always said it was based on "chatter" i.e. an increase in pick ups of communications using red flag terms and language, as opposed to actual hard information. It is a non story. I would wager that with the reduced AQ threat there are currently less staff working monitoring phone and internet comms than there were 10 years ago. The communications are entirely terror specific- they could her you organising a 10 kilo coke deal in LA and they would not alert the local police, it is simply not their department.

then theres guanatanamo why isn't it closed?

I couldn't care less if they are left there without trial for a thousand years. The rules of right and wrong, due process and innocent until proven guilty pre date terror networks containing science grads with a usable knowledge in bio and chemical warfare. Despite what some conspiracy nut might tell you the US does not have any intention of abusing these laws to go after Joe Public.

then there are drone strikes, many think theyre simply disgusting , illegal mass murder

If anyone has a better suggestion of how to arrest and extradite people from remote lawless parts of Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen.....full scale invasions perhaps?

Drone strikes are the less lethal of any option.

the right in America well they want to stick his head on a spike
they say hes too socialist, too wasteful, too weak, too cocky to compromise and communicate....they also say hes simply dishonest over his healthcare promises and the Benghazi affair.....the enormous us debt of over 17 trillion
the unemployment ....

The right in America wanted to elect Sarah Palin as vice president. The right in America want each and every adult to be allowed to stroll down the street with a machine gun in their backpack. The right are morons, frankly.

seamus

It's a tough one to call. He promised change, but then quickly realised (or perhaps knew) that give the US's size in all matters, change could never be fast. Particularly when you have a house of government opposed to you from all angles.

He's having a bit of a nightmare with historical stuff. Things like the NSA, where he has inherited the mess but at the same time won't move to make any changes to it. And this is a common theme in a number of areas with him, like the use of drones.

I guess the main thing which taints his tenure is the expectations people had of him. Almost a Europe-like US, with universal social nets, massively reduced military spending and a more non-confrontational foreign policy, within four years. You couldn't achieve that in five terms, let alone five years.

But I think in many ways he has started the US down that road. Obamacare being a bit of an administrative mess, still seems to be delivering what it needed. Through words and discussion rather than threats and intimidation, Iran has frozen its nuclear programme and it finally talking to the rest of the world.

He's a great statesman, I think if he can keep it in his pants for 3 more years, he has a long career ahead of him as an influential figure in world politics. Clinton is still a highly respected individual, but his ability to make any kind of impact is forever crippled by the Lewinsky incident. As a president, I think history will judge him somewhat fairly; there have been a lot of "good" landmarks made during his term so far, not to mention his appointment initially and the fact that it's not hard to look good after the shambles that was Dubya's 8 years in power.

Kylo Ren

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

I think he is great personally. Unemployment has nearly halved under his watch. You should check the comments section on the Daily Mail US articles, his detractors are pretty funny :pac: S across the globe Africa , middle east etc




The NSA has been running the Echelon programme since at the very least the late 1990's. The US government has admitted multiple times in the following years that it does randomly monitor a plethora of phone and intetnet communications worldwide- when they used to release their near weekly "heightened alert" colour coded warnings post 9/11 they always said it was based on "chatter" i.e. an increase in pick ups of communications using red flag terms and language, as opposed to actual hard information. It is a non story. I would wager that with the reduced AQ threat there are currently less staff working monitoring phone and internet comms than there were 10 years ago. The communications are entirely terror specific- they could her you organising a 10 kilo coke deal in LA and they would not alert the local police, it is simply not their department.



I couldn't care less if they are left there without trial for a thousand years. The rules of right and wrong, due process and innocent until proven guilty pre date terror networks containing science grads with a usable knowledge in bio and chemical warfare. Despite what some conspiracy nut might tell you the US does not have any intention of abusing these laws to go after Joe Public.



If anyone has a better suggestion of how to arrest and extradite people from remote lawless parts of Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen.....full scale invasions perhaps?

Drone strikes are the less lethal of any option.






The right in America wanted to elect Sarah Palin as vice president. The right in America want each and every adult to be allowed to stroll down the street with a machine gun in their backpack. The right are morons, frankly.
on the upside at least on the surface

A report by Seton Hall University found that 55% of Gitmo detainees were determined not to have committed any hostile acts against the US or its allies, and only 8% were alleged to have had any kind of affiliation with al-Qaeda.

"Before any strike is taken, there must be near-certainty that no civilians will be killed or injured — the highest standard we can set.” - Obama.

Just last week 14 people were killed by a drone strike while attending a wedding in Yemen. Imaging attending a wedding here and getting droned by the US military. Innocent casualties of US drone strikes are far from isolated incidents. Have a look here - http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/12/18/us-drone-strike-targets-yemeni-wedding/

Sunglasses Ron

Keno wrote: »

A report by Seton Hall University found that 55% of Gitmo detainees were determined not to have committed any hostile acts against the US or its allies, and only 8% were alleged to have had any kind of affiliation with al-Qaeda.

So what were such a multinational bunch doing in Afghanistan a few weeks after 9/11? On holiday? It's not impossible some were charity workers, but the majority? Me hole.

Just last week 14 people were killed by a drone strike while attending a wedding in Yemen. Imaging attending a wedding here and getting droned by the US military. Innocent casualties of US drone strikes are far from isolated incidents. Have a look here - http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/12/18/us-drone-strike-targets-yemeni-wedding/

Vs how many civilians would potentially be killed were drone strikes not wiping out AQ? The central leadership of AQ have not been directly linked to an attack in a Western state since at least 2005, maybe earlier. Since then all we have seen are half arsed attempts by small cells and lone radicals using small scale or malfunctioning bombs they created alone, without training.

The drone strikes seem to be doing something right.

Santa Cruz

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

So what were such a multinational bunch doing in Afghanistan a few weeks after 9/11? On holiday? It's not impossible some were charity workers, but the majority? Me hole.



Vs how many civilians would potentially be killed were drone strikes not wiping out AQ? The central leadership of AQ have not been directly linked to an attack in a Western state since at least 2005, maybe earlier. Since then all we have seen are half arsed attempts by small cells and lone radicals using small scale or malfunctioning bombs they created alone, without training.

The drone strikes seem to be doing something right.

9/11, Madrid, London. All innocent victims. If the extremists want to play that game then they can expect retaliation and no goody goody liberalism will make a difference. Bring it to the extremists and their supporters if it means we are left alone.

seamus

Santa Cruz wrote: »

9/11, Madrid, London. All innocent victims. If the extremists want to play that game then they can expect retaliation and no goody goody liberalism will make a difference. Bring it to the extremists and their supporters if it means we are left alone.

Not really the same thing though.
Those at the wedding in Yemen weren't linked to extremists in any way. If the attacks were an act by the Yemenese (?) government, then you have some kind of point, but they weren't.

This is the equivalent of your house getting pipe bombed because you happen to live on the same road as a drug dealer involved in a turf war.

camel jockey

Surprised his number one fan, TheBlackGuy hasn't commented yet?

bumper234

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

I think he is great personally. Unemployment has nearly halved under his watch. You should check the comments section on the Daily Mail US articles, his detractors are pretty funny :pac: S across the globe Africa , middle east etc




The NSA has been running the Echelon programme since at the very least the late 1990's. The US government has admitted multiple times in the following years that it does randomly monitor a plethora of phone and intetnet communications worldwide- when they used to release their near weekly "heightened alert" colour coded warnings post 9/11 they always said it was based on "chatter" i.e. an increase in pick ups of communications using red flag terms and language, as opposed to actual hard information. It is a non story. I would wager that with the reduced AQ threat there are currently less staff working monitoring phone and internet comms than there were 10 years ago. The communications are entirely terror specific- they could her you organising a 10 kilo coke deal in LA and they would not alert the local police, it is simply not their department.



I couldn't care less if they are left there without trial for a thousand years. The rules of right and wrong, due process and innocent until proven guilty pre date terror networks containing science grads with a usable knowledge in bio and chemical warfare. Despite what some conspiracy nut might tell you the US does not have any intention of abusing these laws to go after Joe Public.



If anyone has a better suggestion of how to arrest and extradite people from remote lawless parts of Pakistan, Somalia and Yemen.....full scale invasions perhaps?

Drone strikes are the less lethal of any option.






The right in America wanted to elect Sarah Palin as vice president. The right in America want each and every adult to be allowed to stroll down the street with a machine gun in their backpack. The right are morons, frankly.

Would you like to go to Afghanistan, Pakistan or Yemen and explain that to the families of the innocent women and children who have been blown to bits?

Tipsy McSwagger

He's out of his depth and getting schooled by Putin really showed this. There's still innocent men in Guantanamo and Snowden should be pardoned after the recent NSA revelations. Obama is a better option than any republican though.

Linvoy Primus

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

I couldn't care less if they are left there without trial for a thousand years. The rules of right and wrong, due process and innocent until proven guilty pre date terror networks containing science grads with a usable knowledge in bio and chemical warfare. Despite what some conspiracy nut might tell you the US does not have any intention of abusing these laws to go after Joe Public.

Am I understanding you correctly: no rules when it comes to Muslims?

SEPT 23 1989

worst black american president ever

camel jockey

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

worst black american president ever

Or best black american president ever?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

i couldn't think of a better way to introduce cynicism to the youth of the world, he's done a great job there

Mike747

He's average enough. In fairness you could never expect him to live up to the hype. People lost the run of themselves 'he's black, everything going to be ok now!'.

apollo8

camel jockey wrote: »

Surprised his number one fan, TheBlackGuy hasn't commented yet?

he closed his account

smurgen

Can't stand the man. I had high hopes and he didn't rise to them. He was just charismatic which is why so many people believed his crap. He's trying to be everyones friend and showed little or no political backbone.Another yes man.

two wheels good

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

Drone strikes are the less lethal of any option.

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

The drone strikes seem to be doing something right.

Are those rose-tinted glasses Ron - or night-vision goggles?

You might gain a little perspective from watching "Dirty Wars" documentary (2013)

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

scahills twitter is a good'un to follow as well

bumper234

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

scahills twitter is a good'un to follow as well

@dronestream reports every drone strike.

mike65

Promised much, delivered little. Talks a good game.

donspeekinglesh

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

The communications are entirely terror specific- they could her you organising a 10 kilo coke deal in LA and they would not alert the local police, it is simply not their department.

Well that's not true.

Hande hoche!

Fairly mediocre president. Presidency featured very tough conditions to be fair.

SharpshooterTom

People should remember, although there has been some decent job growth recently, the unemployment figures are largely down due to Americans giving up looking for work and therefore are not counted in the figures. It could easily go back up if the economy improves.

keeponhurling

He won the Nobel Peace Prize, so he must be doing a lot for peace, right?

Hande hoche!

keeponhurling wrote: »

He won the Nobel Peace Prize, so he must be doing a lot for peace, right?

cough* Kissinger* cough

bumper234

keeponhurling wrote: »

He won the Nobel Peace Prize, so he must be doing a lot for peace, right?

I'm sure the families of all of these children think the same

List of children killed by drone strikes in Pakistan and Yemen

PAKISTAN
Name | Age | Gender
Noor Aziz | 8 | male
Abdul Wasit | 17 | male
Noor Syed | 8 | male
Wajid Noor | 9 | male
Syed Wali Shah | 7 | male
Ayeesha | 3 | female
Qari Alamzeb | 14| male
Shoaib | 8 | male
Hayatullah KhaMohammad | 16 | male
Tariq Aziz | 16 | male
Sanaullah Jan | 17 | male
Maezol Khan | 8 | female
Nasir Khan | male
Naeem Khan | male
Naeemullah | male
Mohammad Tahir | 16 | male
Azizul Wahab | 15 | male
Fazal Wahab | 16 | male
Ziauddin | 16 | male
Mohammad Yunus | 16 | male
Fazal Hakim | 19 | male
Ilyas | 13 | male
Sohail | 7 | male
Asadullah | 9 | male
khalilullah | 9 | male
Noor Mohammad | 8 | male
Khalid | 12 | male
Saifullah | 9 | male
Mashooq Jan | 15 | male
Nawab | 17 | male
Sultanat Khan | 16 | male
Ziaur Rahman | 13 | male
Noor Mohammad | 15 | male
Mohammad Yaas Khan | 16 | male
Qari Alamzeb | 14 | male
Ziaur Rahman | 17 | male
Abdullah | 18 | male
Ikramullah Zada | 17 | male
Inayatur Rehman | 16 | male
Shahbuddin | 15 | male
Yahya Khan | 16 |male
Rahatullah |17 | male
Mohammad Salim | 11 | male
Shahjehan | 15 | male
Gul Sher Khan | 15 | male
Bakht Muneer | 14 | male
Numair | 14 | male
Mashooq Khan | 16 | male
Ihsanullah | 16 | male
Luqman | 12 | male
Jannatullah | 13 | male
Ismail | 12 | male
Taseel Khan | 18 | male
Zaheeruddin | 16 | male
Qari Ishaq | 19 | male
Jamshed Khan | 14 | male
Alam Nabi | 11 | male
Qari Abdul Karim | 19 | male
Rahmatullah | 14 | male
Abdus Samad | 17 | male
Siraj | 16 | male
Saeedullah | 17 | male
Abdul Waris | 16 | male
Darvesh | 13 | male
Ameer Said | 15 | male
Shaukat | 14 | male
Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male
Salman | 12 | male
Fazal Wahab | 18 | male
Baacha Rahman | 13 | male
Wali-ur-Rahman | 17 | male
Iftikhar | 17 | male
Inayatullah | 15 | male
Mashooq Khan | 16 | male
Ihsanullah | 16 | male
Luqman | 12 | male
Jannatullah | 13 | male
Ismail | 12 | male
Abdul Waris | 16 | male
Darvesh | 13 | male
Ameer Said | 15 | male
Shaukat | 14 | male
Inayatur Rahman | 17 | male
Adnan | 16 | male
Najibullah | 13 | male
Naeemullah | 17 | male
Hizbullah | 10 | male
Kitab Gul | 12 | male
Wilayat Khan | 11 | male
Zabihullah | 16 | male
Shehzad Gul | 11 | male
Shabir | 15 | male
Qari Sharifullah | 17 | male
Shafiullah | 16 | male
Nimatullah | 14 | male
Shakirullah | 16 | male
Talha | 8 | male

YEMEN
Afrah Ali Mohammed Nasser | 9 | female
Zayda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 7 | female
Hoda Ali Mohammed Nasser | 5 | female
Sheikha Ali Mohammed Nasser | 4 | female
Ibrahim Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 13 | male
Asmaa Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 9 | male
Salma Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | female
Fatima Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye | 3 | female
Khadije Ali Mokbel Louqye | 1 | female
Hanaa Ali Mokbel Louqye | 6 | female
Mohammed Ali Mokbel Salem Louqye | 4 | male
Jawass Mokbel Salem Louqye | 15 | female
Maryam Hussein Abdullah Awad | 2 | female
Shafiq Hussein Abdullah Awad | 1 | female
Sheikha Nasser Mahdi Ahmad Bouh | 3 | female
Maha Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 12 | male
Soumaya Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 9 | female
Shafika Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 4 | female
Shafiq Mohammed Saleh Mohammed | 2 | male
Mabrook Mouqbal Al Qadari | 13 | male
Daolah Nasser 10 years | 10 | female
AbedalGhani Mohammed Mabkhout | 12 | male
Abdel- Rahman Anwar al Awlaki | 16 | male
Abdel-Rahman al-Awlaki | 17 | male
Nasser Salim | 19

renegademaster

He'll be extremly lucky to see out his 2nd term without his country descending into chaos over spying, corruption, endless war and general $hit stirring in every country in the world.

mikom

Spoofer.
Nice suits though.......... no scruffy jumpers.

Thrill

Verdict?

Guilty, imo, of being the worst American President ever.

Francisco Durden

Your rundown is hilariously biased in favour of Obama but you tried to seem like you were apolitical.

Francisco Durden

Sunglasses Ron wrote: »

I think he is great personally. Unemployment has nearly halved under his watch.

If you believe those statistics I feel sorry for you.

The report indicates that 148,000 jobs were created in September, which dropped the official unemployment rate to 7.2%. Curiously enough, however, the labor-force participation rate fell to 35-year lows- a true testament to the creative accounting for which this administration is known. As more and more people are discounted from the figures for having been out of work for too long, the rate continues to drop as people officially leave the job market.

http://www.tpnn.com/hope-and-change-obama-campaign-smeared-bush-for-10-6-black-unemployment-rate-five-years-later-black-unemployment-is-at-12-9/

Exactly five years ago today, October 22nd, 2008, the Obama Campaign shredded the Bush Administration for their black unemployment rate.

Exactly five years ago today, the black unemployment rate was 10.6%. Now it is 12.9%

Riddle101

Well I preferred him to Bush, and I think he's a good statesman. But he came in at the wrong time I think. Anyone who became president after Bush had a tough job to do, and he was the one to do it. Not to mention having to deal with the economic climate.

stpaddy99

Francisco Durden wrote: »

Your rundown is hilariously biased in favour of Obama but you tried to seem like you were apolitical.

everyone is biased....I like to think he has been a good president though with all complex matters theres so much we don't know and so many ways to look at these issues....look at the 7% unemployment, is that a lie really? as a poster here claims , the actual people in work has supposedly fallen? not sure if that's true

either way the floor is yours to criticize or praise or say whatever you like

spank_inferno

So much of that OPs "achievements" had nothing to do with Obama.

Worst president since Dick Chaney.
Or before that, Nixon.

Francisco Durden

stpaddy99 wrote: »

everyone is biased....I like to think he has been a good president though with all complex matters theres so much we don't know and so many ways to look at these issues....look at the 7% unemployment, is that a lie really? as a poster here claims , the actual people in work has supposedly fallen? not sure if that's true

either way the floor is yours to criticize or praise or say whatever you like

I've already made another point. Here's another one:

President Obama said in his inaugural address that he planned to "restore science to its rightful place" in government. That's a worthy goal. But statisticians at the Commerce Department didn't think it would mean having the director of next year's Census report directly to the White House rather than to the Commerce secretary, as is customary. "There's only one reason to have that high level of White House involvement," a career professional at the Census Bureau tells me. "And it's called politics, not science."

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB123423384887066377


More complete overview:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-18/october-2012-pre-election-jobs-report-was-faked

stpaddy99

obamacare now has 2.1 million sign ups plus 3.9 million on medicaid.....they think they have an outside chance pf making their 7 million target for march

meanwhile ths stock market is off the charts at 16450

a lot of people are getting richer

super_furry

Met the new boss, same as the old boss.

stpaddy99

super_furry wrote: »

Met the new boss, same as the old boss.

eh?

dundalkfc10

No difference to him and any other Leader who tells his troops to go kill people (mainly innocent)

He should be given the death penalty the wanker!

stpaddy99

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

No difference to him and any other Leader who tells his troops to go kill people (mainly innocent)

He should be given the death penalty the wanker!

attention seeking again ? zzzzzzzz
what a brainless reply

dundalkfc10

stpaddy99 wrote: »

attention seeking again ? zzzzzzzz
what a brainless reply

Well then sorry IMO he has been as bad as Bush

stpaddy99

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Well then sorry IMO he has been as bad as Bush

justify that utter drivel? has he invaded a country causing 100s of thousands (possibly up to a million)of innocent deaths?

conorhal

I was suspicious of the man from the outset, suspecting that the was, like our Labour leaders an inexperienced politician filled with smug liberal intollerence and a shady character that had cut his teeth in the sleazy and corrupt world of Chicago Democratic politics and had no experience of the world oustide partisan politics having never worked in the private sector.

I will say that my fears were unfounded. Had he come out and said at the outset that he was a moderate Republican, I'd not have been so worried.

MRnotlob606

hes my cousin so hes sound

MRnotlob606

he never fixed the potholes in the road

dundalkfc10

stpaddy99 wrote: »

justify that utter drivel? has he invaded a country causing 100s of thousands (possibly up to a million)of innocent deaths?

You ever heard of the Drone Strikes?

stpaddy99

conorhal wrote: »

I was suspicious of the man from the outset, suspecting that the was, like our Labour leaders an inexperienced politician filled with smug liberal intollerence and a shady character that had cut his teeth in the sleazy and corrupt world of Chicago Democratic politics and had no experience of the world oustide partisan politics having never worked in the private sector.

I will say that my fears were unfounded. Had he come out and said at the outset that he was a moderate Republican, I'd not have been so worried.

bit cryptic im struggling to understand what youre trying to say

super_furry

stpaddy99 wrote: »

eh?

Meaning there's very little difference between him and Bush and this promised 'change' never materialised.

InTheTrees

super_furry wrote: »

Meaning there's very little difference between him and Bush and this promised 'change' never materialised.

Seriously you'd have to be pretty out of touch to think there's no difference between a republican and a democratic president.

And ObamaCare is going to be as big a change to American life as the introduction of the NHS was in the UK. If you'd witnessed the vitriol of the republican opposition to that legislation you'd appreciate some of the differences between the two parties.

So saying there's no difference really just means you're not paying attention.

bumper234

stpaddy99 wrote: »

justify that utter drivel? has he invaded a country causing 100s of thousands (possibly up to a million)of innocent deaths?

He hasn't invaded, he has just kept the murder machine running.