Cork Kent station closed - partial roof collapse

Victor

Slunk wrote: »

Why is it automatically a maintenance issue. Usual crap blaming IR for any problems that occur. There were very high winds which also caused damage to nearby houses. These things happen. Stop looking to blame someone and be thankful nobody was seriously injured.

It's not about blame as such, but the prevention of future occurrences. It seems this roof had recent work done to it. Compare the roofing material in the different photos. And while it stood for what could be 120 years, having only a single line of columns on a long structure like that (even if it has a bend in it) was inviting trouble eventually.

TheBandicoot wrote: »

I wonder if the cost of rectifying this in terms of new roof, removal of old one, insurance/other claims/service disruption/overtime etc. etc. will in one swoop wipe out all the saving made by IE this year from fleet changes.

I imagien something likes this would cost a few hundred thousand to fix. With any property portfolio, especially a large one, you can assume some damage every year and substantial damage occasionally. The CIÉ group self-insures for most risks.

cgcsb

I'm grateful everyone is ok, thankfully it wasn't a busy platform at the time. On the bright side, perhaps this'll be the excuse needed to renovate the station.

coylemj

IR have just tweeted that the station has partially reopened and full services to/from Ceannt will operate tomorrow, subject to 'minor delays'.....

Update: 19:30hrs

Cork Station has partially reopened after earlier closure.

The 18:00, 19:00 and 21:00 services from Heuston to Cork will operate as a train all the way to Cork.

Services from Cork to Heuston for the remainder of the evening will continue to operate as a bus transfer to Mallow with a train onwards to Heuston.

Services to Cobh and Midleton remain suspended. Bus Éireann are running services between McCarthy's Motor Point, Glanmire Road (Oppostite St. Patrick's Church) & Cobh. Rail tickets are also valid on Bus Éireann services to and from Midleton

Cork/Heuston and Cork/Cobh/Midleton services will operate as normal tomorrow morning, but may be subject to minor delays.

Services will operate from Platforms 3, 4 and 5 only. Platforms 1 & 2 will remain closed unitl further notice

http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4974&p=116&n=237

Victor

St. Patrick's Church is between the train station and the bus station / city centre. https://maps.google.ie/maps?q=St.+Patrick%27s+Church,+Cork&hl=en&ll=51.901561,-8.463196&spn=0.001374,0.003819&sll=53.32432,-6.251695&sspn=0.1702,0.488892&oq=St.+Patrick%27s+Church,+cork&hq=St.+Patrick%27s+Church,&hnear=Cork,+County+Cork&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=51.901498,-8.463517&panoid=dYT5O6Ic8CRWfLfI7qvlrQ&cbp=12,343.68,,0,-15.37

McCarthy's Motor Point is on Railway Street, between the church and the train station. https://maps.google.ie/maps?q=McCarthy%27s+Motor+Point,+Cork&hl=en&ll=51.90166,-8.462284&spn=0.002747,0.007639&sll=51.901405,-8.464376&sspn=0.001387,0.003819&hq=McCarthy%27s+Motor+Point,&hnear=Cork,+County+Cork&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=51.901661,-8.461837&panoid=JVL_b9VtCvYNtQzxhfC2Gw&cbp=12,168.07,,0,-16.48

coylemj wrote: »

IR have just tweeted that the station has partially reopened and full services to/from Ceannt will operate tomorrow

Convention is that Cork is always referred to as Cork Kent, whereas Galway is referred to as Galway Ceannt, to avoid confusion.

Jamie2k9

davidlacey wrote: »

It shows how well these structures were built to last that length of time, all these stations have got face lifts but the main issues have not been sorted(the expensive jobs) I.e pearse and the structures of kent stations which have been mentioned earlier. But thank god no one was hurt, another wake up call for IE!

Given that steel was ripped up from the ground, what sort of wake up call would IE need to stop that. If it had just being the roof then maybe but it was the complete structure and other damage was done around that area not caused by the roof.

While we all would like to blame IE for everything, this just isn't there fault. Yes the roof was old but its not the only old thing around.

By your comments the roof blown off a house in Limerick was also completely unavoidable as that was probably old as well. Who need that wake up call?

Also heard (can't confirm if true) that wall was ripped in half beside that area in Cork as well.

If you look around age doesn't play a big role, remember Faro airport in 2011. New enough terminal roof blown off by storm. Same across Scotland last week or two with roofs gone from new building and some train stations.

Victor

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Given that steel was ripped up from the ground

I don't think it was. In at least several cases, the columns snapped about a metre above the platform.

angelIRL

A few pictures of the platform canopy collapse at Cork Kent yesterday. Thankfully no one died:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/finnyus/

n0brain3r

I wonder do they do any sort of risk assessment? I know at Mullingar you can wander onto the old platforms with wooden canopy's quite easily. Are there many of these or similar structures still in use on the network?'s

cdebru

Red Nissan wrote: »

It was a convection downdraft, EICK recorded a 111km/h wind gust at the same time. This event was caused by the fierce rainfall lowering the air pressure and allowing a violent convection current to blow in.

This type of event was also the cause of the damage during the Night of the Big Wind in 1839 and that was called a hurricane, it wasn't but these wind gusts can be every bit as dangerous and damaging.

Clearly IE fault they should have known this freak wind was going to happen.:rolleyes:

n0brain3r

Would it be too much to ask that they know what structures are vulnerable to wind events and given that MET Eireann had issued a yellow warning closed the platform?? (I don't know was it upgraded to red before or after the canopy collapsed so I'll give them the benefit the doubt)

corktina

Kent is open today, but Glanmire Road (the road, not the station of that name :-) ) is still closed so allow for that.

cdebru

n0brain3r wrote: »

Would it be too much to ask that they know what structures are vulnerable to wind events and given that MET Eireann had issued a yellow warning closed the platform?? (I don't know was it upgraded to red before or after the canopy collapsed so I'll give them the benefit the doubt)

Yes they should close the station everytime the wind picks up, expecting something that has stood for 120 years to blow over. In fact no one should be allowed leave their house when Met Eireann issue a yellow warning just to be safe.

rovoagho

I think people are being very black and white here. The last time I took the train to Dublin, while I was admiring the main shed - which is fab, I don't know how anyone with any appreciation for design and/or engineering could argue differently - I did think to myself that it looked a tad overdue on the maintenance front. That's not to say it was, just that it looked like it. However it's quite possible that this is a combination of both things -- a freak wind AND a poorly planned maintenance schedule.

There are a lot of times I see calls for investigations that are totally OTT, but I think this is a case where problems with IR are easily researched. Either there's a maintenance log or there isn't. I'm sure it's being hunted for as we speak.

Red Nissan

Keep in mind all, that yesterday's wind event was typical of the storm in 1839 becoming famous as the night of the big wind.

corktina

Never mind blaming IE, it was a 15 second event, described by eyewitnesses as a Tornado, and not confined to the station.

Just a freak and fortunately almost no injuries caused.

n0brain3r

cdebru wrote: »

Yes they should close the station everytime the wind picks up, expecting something that has stood for 120 years to blow over. In fact no one should be allowed leave their house when Met Eireann issue a yellow warning just to be safe.

You're putting words in my mouth I said nothing about closing the station.

Lets wait and see how many more similar structures IE have on the network that it took this incident for them to realize need are in need of remedial work of some kind. The forecast was for 110 km/h plus winds and other locations closed. The fact that it is 120 years old should of highlighted it even further.

bg07

The other issue is that if I.E. did replace the structure with a safer modern one or make significant modifications to the existing structure before yesterday they would be chastised here for destroying railway heritage.

There wasn't as much outcry here when a brand new luas canopy at belgrade was demaged in high winds. That was even less excusable.

GBOA

Without any cast iron facts regarding the structural failure, it's interesting that so many are already suggesting where to apportion blame.

dublinman1990

I had a look at the aftermath of the incident on RTE News and BBC News at Nine last night. It did look to appear like a nasty one in which thankfully nobody was killed.

IE's maintenance log needs to seriously looked at for reworking the scheduling for all major weather event's either if it is high winds or torrential rainfall.

You were lucky there at the time IE. Don't delay further.

Losty Dublin

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I had a look at the aftermath of the incident on RTE News and BBC News at Nine last night. It did look to appear like a nasty one in which thankfully nobody was killed.
.

There was one death yesterday which was due to the high winds.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1218/493608-weather-warning/

Hungerford

rovoagho wrote: »

There are a lot of times I see calls for investigations that are totally OTT, but I think this is a case where problems with IR are easily researched. Either there's a maintenance log or there isn't. I'm sure it's being hunted for as we speak.

My view is that it could easily be an act of God BUT I do think the maintenance angle has to be checked given what the RAIU investigations into the Cahir Viaduct collapse (2003), the Skerries Derailment (2007), and the Broadmeadow Viaduct collapse (2009) and the Wicklow Landslip (2009) found. This was a systematic failure to conduct maintenance and maintain proper maintenance records. I hope that RAIU investigate this incident.

Victor

http://www.buseireann.ie/news_timetable.php?id=1417&month=Dec

Bad Weather Updates

All services are operating as normal with the following exceptions:


Cork

The Lower Glanmire Road was opened at 16.10 with Routes 205 and 226 operating normally.

There are some minor delays in suburban locations particularly Bishopstown, Douglas, Blackpool and Mahon.

Bus Éireann regret any incovenience these disruptions may cause our passengers

Thursday, 19th December, 2013

oppenheimer1

When an accident happens its generally due to a series of events happening in a crucial order. The things to note in this instance is that the canopy is old and supported by a single line of cast iron columns. Cast iron is a brittle material. Also to be noted is there was a single train parked at the platform.


What I'm going to guess happened here is that a strong gust of wind got trapped underneath the roof due to the parked train, which caused the columns to bend and then snap. Although people are saying it is fortunate that the other train had pulled away when this happened, it is likely this failure would not have occurred if both trains were standing at the platform, or if no trains were standing.

bk

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

What I'm going to guess happened here is that a strong gust of wind got trapped underneath the roof due to the parked train, which caused the columns to bend and then snap. Although people are saying it is fortunate that the other train had pulled away when this happened, it is likely this failure would not have occurred if both trains were standing at the platform, or if no trains were standing.

This is kind of an odd comment. It is a train station after all, you can expect trains to be waiting at the platform sometimes!

Thus the structure needs to be designed with trains being there or not under all weather conditions!

oppenheimer1

bk wrote: »

This is kind of an odd comment. It is a train station after all, you can expect trains to be waiting at the platform sometimes!

Thus the structure needs to be designed with trains being there or not under all weather conditions!

I don't think it is an odd comment at all, I was just describing the set of circumstances that I understood led to the collapse. Yes of course the canopy should have been designed to withstand the kind of event that happened, but you're forgetting when this canopy was designed! Modern codes would of course take this into account but this thing was probably empirically designed.


I was just saying that this collapse occurred because this particular set of events have probably never occurred, say the last time there was high winds there were probably no trains at the platform

rovoagho

Or it could be something completely different. I think I'd prefer to hear from experts, with data.

Red Nissan

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

but this thing was probably empirically designed.

We'd call these structures over engineered for the most part by today's just enough standards.

Whilst one can never rule out a theory, this particular wind event was quite a wide affair and damage is reported on the opposite bank and other buildings in the vicinity.

Also we have several reports of cars being hit by the violent gust and the drivers fearing being turned over.

Also the damage was wide at the actual incident site. One carriage [train] at the north platform, yet the entire canopy was blown over, for the theory to have evidential proportions, then the damage should be confined to the immediate region of the carriage [train].

Victor

Red Nissan wrote: »

We'd call these structures over engineered for the most part by today's just enough standards.

Actually, no. Cast iron construction typically comes with riveted joints, not bolted and welded joints. Modern construction would have meant at least some bracing, not a single line of columns. This is a typical example of 'disproportionate collapse'.

Whilst one can never rule out a theory, this particular wind event was quite a wide affair and damage is reported on the opposite bank and other buildings in the vicinity.

The houses on Lower Glanmire Road suffered slate damage, not complete destruction. Compare foreground and middle ground here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/finnyus/11438095896/ The damage to the warehouse in the background is previous fire damage.

Also the damage was wide at the actual incident site. One carriage [train] at the north platform, yet the entire canopy was blown over, for the theory to have evidential proportions, then the damage should be confined to the immediate region of the carriage [train].

It was a 2-carriage train. Potentially what happen was there was an asymmetric load. Such a load is more like to do damage than an symmetric load of the same force, to that type of structure..

SpaceTime

Victorian ≠ well-built. It usually just means heavy and cast iron.

Cast iron's also very brittle and doesn't respond well to stress such as twisting / vibrating etc.

corktina

very unfortunate for IE that Pearse was closed due to wind damage to it's roof recently. Questions will be asked about IEs maintenance standards no doubt