What do I do? 12 yr old has lied and deceived me.

Shark

DTA338 wrote: »

You are making a mountain out of a molehill. He lied to the tune of six euro. Hardly crime of the century.

You seem like the overbearing, bubble wrapping, mollycoddler type of parent (based on what I have read in your posts) and I promise he will hate you for it. I am not condoning his behaviour but your reaction is hardly fair either.
And this ''its the fact that he lied'' argument does not fly. He is 12. You are a grown woman. Is it really so emotionally crippling that he told you a lie? If it is I would start looking for help because in 3 - 4 years time you will not know what hit you.

He is getting to the age where he will push his luck. He is also at the age where his moral compass will be finding its direction. If you come down on him like a ton of bricks on this small thing he will not forget it. I promise you that.

Going to see his teacher is overkill. Let him go on his trip. Why punish him with grounding, Xbox removal and no trip? That's double jeopardy. Its not fair on him.

To quote Mrs. Brown ''All children rob.''

I had parents who used similar methods to yourself and they ruined my childhood and I now hate them. So chill out and stop over-thinking it.

Well you have made a hell of a lot of assumptions there most of which are untrue. You may think that the punishment is harsh but there is no need for what you just said. There are plenty of people who have posted here constructively whether they agreed or not but didn't reduce themselves to such a hostile and a very insulting post.

I'm sorry for what happened to you in your childhood and I'll have you know that I was brought up in a very abusive home so don't lecture me about effects parents behaviors has on children.

I have made sure my children never suffer what I did but at the same time they need to learn right from wrong. They know there are consequences for bad behavior but there is also great praise and rewards for good behavior. I may have gone a little too far as I'll admit I was angry and yes I am disappointed in him on this occasion.

I had already said I was rethinking the trip and that has been down to constructive advice I have been given from some posters here.

BorneTobyWilde

To say the OP is overbearing is wrong, that's just you're opinion. Personally I think it's great that OP is trying to raise her kid right, is there for him and teaching him important values. I disagree that this means he will grow up to hate her. I think the opposite is true. It's at this age that parents should be teaching kids right from wrong but so many let their kids run wild and never teach them the values they need ,and it's reflected in today's society .

Kettleson

Shark wrote: »

Well you have made a hell of a lot of assumptions there most of which are untrue. You may think that the punishment is harsh but there is no need for what you just said. There are plenty of people who have posted here constructively whether they agreed or not but didn't reduce themselves to such a hostile and a very insulting post.

I'm sorry for what happened to you in your childhood and I'll have you know that I was brought up in a very abusive home so don't lecture me about effects parents behaviors has on children.

I have made sure my children never suffer what I did but at the same time they need to learn right from wrong. They know there are consequences for bad behavior but there is also great praise and rewards for good behavior. I may have gone a little too far as I'll admit I was angry and yes I am disappointed in him on this occasion.

I had already said I was rethinking the trip and that has been down to constructive advice I have been given from some posters here.

Some inherent anger issues here?

del88

Hi
It's perfectly normal for kids/teens to test the boundaries of their parents rules and regulations ...I'd be more worried about 12 year olds that didn't push it a bit...by the way your response sounds perfectly normal to me and I'm sure as you gain experience in raising teenagers you feel less of a need to seek advice from at times opinionated strangers and trust your own judgment...best of luck ..;-)

mossieh

I'd be similarly bothered in the same situation, tbh. It's a matter of trust and I don't think your punishments are over the top. The fact that he apologised and seems genuinely regretful is a good sign. It suggests that he is being well brought up and has good values (the odd bit of childhood madness aside). The relative severity of the punishment should have a 'short sharp shock' effect on him at what is a crucial juncture in his life and the lesson should stick with him.

To add, I know it's not the crime of the century but it does merit a strong response in my opinion. Little boys becoming teenage boys will throw you the odd curveball; making sure they know where the line is drawn is important.

The fact that you are soul-searching over this shows that you are engaged with his needs and are trying not to overdo things. Trust your instincts on this, you know him better than anyone.

CarMe

I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. It's pretty normal behaviour from your son (just don't tell him that!) and it sounds like he's remorseful enough, don't traumatized him!

You'll have to deal with loads of situations like this OP you need to be prepared to deal with a few fibs, maybe mitching etc in a calm controlled way.

anncoates

Some pretty passive aggressive ganging up going on in this thread no?

Kettleson

anncoates wrote: »

Some pretty passive aggressive ganging up going on in this thread no?

No. Only if you are looking to stir it up. It's all fair comment.

mossieh

anncoates wrote: »

Some pretty passive aggressive ganging up going on in this thread no?

I think so. It might not be intended as such but it comes across as dismissive or belittling of the OP. Uncalled-for.

Tar.Aldarion

The fact that this is so shocking to you shows that he is doing pretty well as a kid tbh. I'd echo others and say reduce the punishment trip-wise as it seems like he will learn his lesson from removal of the xbox. Showing him some leniency isn't just a sign of weakness or alluding to him getting away with things, you alsotalk to him and explain to him why he can go on it, that he was apologetic and has been a good child thus far and so on and that you just need to let him know some things can't be condoned.

The attacking of the OP, who only wants to be fair and is worried, seems a bit much. People can make a point without being a jerk.

saltyjack silverblade

I did the same thing when I was his age. And now look at me-I'm a lawyer. It's all legit! Wait....on second thoughts.....

But seriously I don't think even the threat of saying 'we are going to the teacher' should be batted around. No matter how discreet you think you are being the teacher will know and will wonder why you are bringing home issues into class. Are you sure there is a trip? The lack of a permission slip is curious.I thought it was needed for insurance purposes etc.

Kettleson

mossieh wrote: »

I think so. It might not be intended as such but it comes across as dismissive or belittling of the OP. Uncalled-

I'd appreciate if you could give examples of opinions that are "uncalled-for" .

Kettleson

saltyjack silverblade wrote: »

I did the same thing when I was his age. And now look at me-I'm a lawyer. It's all legit! Wait....on second thoughts.....

But seriously I don't think even the threat of saying 'we are going to the teacher' should be batted around. No matter how discreet you think you are being the teacher will know and will wonder why you are bringing home issues into class. Are you sure there is a trip? The lack of a permission slip is curious.I thought it was needed for insurance purposes etc.

Ah come on, we don't need to bring in Hercule Poirot on this one. There is a Christmas trip. And it won't be the teacher who is wondering why "home issues" are being brought into class, it's the kids. They can detect "home issues" from 3 blocks away, AND they can use it for a multitude of purposes, and not all good ones.

mossieh

Kettleson wrote: »

mossieh wrote: »

I think so. It might not be intended as such but it comes across as dismissive or belittling of the OP. Uncalled-for.

I'd appreciate if you could give examples of opinions that are "uncalled-for" .

It's not a long thread, figure it out. I'm going to bed.

m'lady

I can't believe that a mod has not intervened here- a concerned parent posts a thread looking for advice and it's appears she/he is bring psychoanalysed by another poster? I've seen people on Boards being suspended for less.

OP I do think you should rethink the school trip, but hold onto the xbox and let him do a few chores. I don't accept that you shouldn't be upset, I know I would be deeply hurt to be honest. It's been mentioned and I'll say it again, could he be getting bullied?

the_syco

Shark wrote: »

So in he comes today and I asked for the permission form and he said his teacher said he doesn't need one.

Ring the school, and check if there has been any trips, or if there are any coming up.

Darkglasses

the_syco wrote: »

Ring the school, and check if there has been any trips, or if there are any coming up.

She's going to see the teacher in the morning, it's in the op

saltyjack silverblade

Kettleson wrote: »

Ah come on, we don't need to bring in Hercule Poirot on this one. There is a Christmas trip. And it won't be the teacher who is wondering why "home issues" are being brought into class, it's the kids. They can detect "home issues" from 3 blocks away, AND they can use it for a multitude of purposes, and not all good ones.

Well the OP didn't say if she had in fact received a permission slip. Schools freak out at the idea of them not being accounted for. My mother taught for many years and said they were the bane of her life- and that was for 16/17 year olds. Couldn't imagine a school not producing some kind of slip for the parent to sign.

Donaldio

I think this really very normal ! Even if he seems just a little baby this is about the right age for him to start doing some things on his own. So he tricked you for a little money for sweets his will has sucumb to the sweets and crisps its quite normal and not so serious a crime i think.

He understands you are a source for cash and that cash can get him a few sweets and bars or whatever but in fairness he probarbly does not grasp at all the much greater economics of money like haveing to work to earn it or that you need to have money to pay for the much more serious stuff in life like bills feul food etc probarbly he does not get that yet.

He has to do his own thing at some point i supose you could explain to him a bit about money and that if you want nice things or even basic things you have to work for them or that you yourself have a limited income and would much prefer him to be honest with you like if wants money for sweets he could ask you and you "might" give him a little bit of pocket money.

I think your disciplining him is probarbly the right to do to !
But it is really a very normal and harmless enough episode i think.

wonderfullife

Shark wrote: »

........

.......
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I am so disappointed in him and just so upset that he would do this. He only ever has to ask for anything that he needs and depending on how much he needed might be asked to do jobs around the house to help earn it.

As punishment I have removed his xbox (which he adores) and will be going to see his teacher in the morning to let him know that my son is not to go on the trip. He has also been given a very stern talking to and sent to his room for the evening.

... But thenI trusted him and I never thought he do this.

I know it's only a small amount of money but thats not the point. I feel he effectively stole from me and lied to me.

Holy Mother of God.

So your 12 year old kid told a few porky pies to get a few bob more...... and this is how you react??????

First of all, you say "he only ever has to ask if he wants money for something".

Well his actions show otherwise. If all he had to do was ask, and he wanted sweets, then he'd have asked. Fact of the matter is he told a few fibs as either a) he felt he couldn't ask or b) you'd have said no or c) worse, created an argument over the fact he asked in the first place.

Second of all, a teacher would laugh you out of the building if you went and said "right so my kid fibbed and got a few quid off me for sweets so i'm not letting him go on a trip". They couldn't give a monkeys! They might pacify you and say oh yeah of course no problem and inside be thinking "what is she on??".

There's 12 year olds out there (plenty of them) smoking, drinking, robbing from shops, not going to school etc. On the face of it your kid did what? Told a porky to buy some sweets!!!

Anyway as people have suggested he may still be lying to you and have used the money to buy you a nicer xmas present with the money. Kids are not fantastic liars as you may have noticed. He might have saw something he wanted to get you and thought he'd show some initiative and get enough to buy it for you. If that's the case he'd still lie and you'd have ruined his efforts.

If the money has anything whatsoever to do with bullying that's a different kettle of fish. If the money has anything to do with fags, then ok you can deal with that too it's not as serious as bullying (almost all teens try them at some stage).

But if the story is as simple as him telling a few porky pies to buy sweets then obviously he doesn't feel he can "ask you for anything".

Instead of grounding him, reducing him to tears, going to the teacher, forbidding him from his x-box (incidentally a week before xmas!! scrooge!) take a look in the mirror!! He's 12! you've got to be at least 27 probably older. He made a very very very SLIGHT mistake here. Sounds like a good kid! And he showed a bit of initiative and moxy in my books. Lateral thinking.

Disproportionate, outlandish punishments for slight mistakes .......it can only get worse i'm afraid. Wait til he's 14 or 15 and tries the fags, booze, lies to spend time with a girl he fancies etc etc.....you're gonna have him grounded for life if this is how you react over this!!

SusieBlue

It sounds like you are raising a lovely young man. I agree that this is being blown out of proportion. He should be punished, but you are going OTT. He realises what he has done is wrong and he seems genuinely remorseful. Keeping the xbox for a few days and a talking to sounds fair to me. Depriving him of his school trip isn't fair. How will he explain to his friends why he isn't going? Causing him further embarrassment will only make things worse. Even if his teacher doesn't mention it to him, he'll know that she knows and this will no doubt make him feel awkward around her.

Its not as though he didn't give a hoot when he got caught. He's sorry. He's been punished enough. I know it might be irrelevant, but for goodness sake, its Christmas week. The season of forgiveness and all that.

Another thought I had OP was whether you talk about your financial situation around him. I know you say that he only need ask for something and he can have it, but do you ever discuss lack of money/bills etc. around him? I only ask because maybe he was worried that if he asked for it you'd say no, or that you couldn't afford it, and he was trying to get a few bob together without having to ask you for a few euro for sweets AND money for the school trip in one week, thus killing two birds with one stone. Maybe he didn't want to ask for money for sweets and for the trip, what with it being so close to Christmas, so he combined the two rather than having to ask for two seperate things.

Also, do his peers go to the shop for sweets on the way home from school every day? If so then its only natural that he'd want to go too. He's at a very influential age and if his friends want it, he'll want it. Doesn't excuse what he done but if all his buddies are flitting a few euro away in the corner shop every day, and you don't want him to, perhaps you should make some other arrangement for him to travel home from school.

I will also reiterate what others have said, he's at an age where he is testing boundaries and if this is the worst thing he's ever done, you are doing a fabulous job. For the next 6 years or so you'll probably be faced with worse than this, especially if you keep coming down hard on him. Because he just won't care any more, because he'll know that every minor occurence will get him a punishment, so if he's going to be punished anyway, he might as well just do whatever the hell he wants.

I know you feel people are jumping on you here but I implore you to take the advice given here. You sound like you have a lovely son. Let it go.

the_syco

Darkglasses wrote: »

the_syco wrote: »

Shark wrote: »

So in he comes today and I asked for the permission form and he said his teacher said he doesn't need one.

Ring the school, and check if there has been any trips, or if there are any coming up.

She's going to see the teacher in the morning, it's in the op

From reading it, she's going to the teacher to say that he's not going on the trip, but I wanted her to query the trip, in case the trip either doesn't exist, or would go against the kid if he doesn't go (educational trip).

In regards the kid, how much pocket money does he get? Perhaps increase it, but link the increased amount to extra chores, so that he has an idea of what he has to do to get more money.

From what I've read, your son pushed the boundaries (normal), and when questioned about it he broke down and realised that he wasn't able to pull the wool over your eyes after all. Lesson learned IMO. Take the xbox. Let him know how disappointed you are. Let him know that there is a trust broken and that you will be less likely to allow him freedom if that trust is gone, but leave it at that. He hasn't done anything that any other normal pre-teen/teen would do at some point in their life.

The funny thing is, it's because he is a good kid that you know he was lying, if he was a deceitful child you would be oblivious to the lies he might be telling. Look on the brightside here.

LINE45

Just a quick question here, could you go to the shop perhaps and ask was it sweets he bought??? and as a parent also, have you told the child he is not going on this trip because if you did and allow him go you are kind of sending mixed messages!!!!!!!!!!!!which would'nt be good.

smcgiff

LINE45 wrote: »

have you told the child he is not going on this trip because if you did and allow him go you are kind of sending mixed messages!!!!!!!!!!!!which would'nt be good.

Really, he's 12! He has witnessned his parents changing their mind without the sky caving in.

Taking the x-box was the right thing to do. Extra chores seems like a good idea too.

But trust goes both ways. You'll want your son to be able to come to you and confide in you without worrying you'll over react.

I'm hoping you didn't go to the school.

smcgiff

smcgiff wrote: »

But trust goes both ways. You'll want your son to be able to come to you and confide in you without worrying you'll over react.

This. A thousand times this.

He told you he had done wrong - he could have continued to lie but he didn't. Next time he fcuks up (and he will) he needs to know he can tell you about it. That is hugely important.

emmabrighton

Hi OP,

Sounds to me like your son is at the stage where he wants a bit of pocket money and a bit of independence from his parents. Which, from what I remember is pretty standard practice for a teenager. He wanted to buy "something" but he didn't want to ask you for the money for it.

Remembering back, I was a deceitful little tween. I couldn't see the issue in telling lies - I would get what I wanted without the Spanish Inquisition from my mother and all the drama that would be inevitable.

I was never doing anything bad and to this day, I can only assume it was the drink that caused her to ALWAYS say no.

1. I wanted to go to a friends house in Shankill, she said no once so the next time I said I was going to another friends house and hopped on the bus to Shanchill. I didn't plan on drinking, or meeting boys so I didn't consider it a big deal.

2. I wanted to have a sleep over in another friends house. I was 12 so there would have been no shenanigans. What a surprise, she said no.

3. Another time - this one when I was 10 - I wanted to bring a friend back to my house for the afternoon. Mom was friendly with the parents of the other friend. Again she said no.

My point is I think you have to pick your battles. Because if you are always coming down hard on him, his go to response will be to lie or he will start omitting crucial parts of the truth. I know that is what I would have done 20 years ago.

Instead of punishing him, why don't you do the complete opposite. It will be a long term thing, of course. Acknowledge that he is growing up and should be having more independence. Give him more responsibility and chores. Like, getting his own clothes ready for school. Making sure his own books are packed in the schoolbag. Remembering his own PE Gear. Making his own lunch for school...And give him chores like getting him to take the bins out for the bin man or clean up the kitchen table after dinner every weeknight, or have him make dinner one night a week.

Then, for him doing his chores moderately well - he is a kid, after all - you give him pocket money i.e. the price of a cinema ticket - so 7 euro or something (if you can afford it). And there should be no caveat's. You don't get to ask how he spends his money. That is up to him to tell you.

But because you do want to make sure he is safe, you want him to volunteer information about his daily activities. Make time, say at dinner for a chat. Do things with him that he likes to do. Like, my dad was definitely my BFF until he died when I was 14. We used to go hill walking together, and in the evenings we would walk the dog together. I ended up volunteering information that teenagers probably wouldn't ordinarily tell their dads.

This is because I trusted him. He never blew up at me, ever. My mom always did. He would listen and not make any comments. See, if he had been a difficult person to be honest with, I wouldn't have volunteered any of the stuff I told him and he would never have known I was being bullied in school or that I had never had a boyfriend or whatever the topic of conversation was on that day...

I imagine that you must be scared that he is going to turn in to a delinquent or something. But, like whoopsadaisydoodles said above, sounds like you are raising a good person who does know right from wrong and feels remorse when he does something that he knows he shouldn't.

Well done you on being such a kind and caring mom and raising such a nice boy.

Shark

Kettleson wrote: »

That's unhinged behaviour in my opinion.

DTA338 wrote: »

You seem like the overbearing, bubble wrapping, mollycoddler type of parent (based on what I have read in your posts) and I promise he will hate you for it.

Kettleson wrote: »

Some inherent anger issues here?

Kettleson wrote: »

I'd appreciate if you could give examples of opinions that are "uncalled-for" .

I came here looking for advice/help/support for my situation and with that I have been accused of all the above. My mental health and emotional state have been called into question. It's very disrespectful, unfair assumptions and judgmental comments.

I responded to what I felt was a very hostile and aggressive post and now I'm accused of having anger issues along with being "unhinged"? I can't win can I?

Not once have I been disrespectful anyone on here or belittled or ridiculed them. Such a shame you can't get your point across without having to resolve to such petty and ridiculous comments.

I have already admitted I didn't handle the situation in the best way initially but after some time to calm down I did speak to my son again and had a much better chat with him about it. That doesn't make me a bad parent, that makes me human and we all make mistakes and get carried away.

I have taken onboard all the useful comments and advice that others have posted. It was good to see things from others perspective. There is a fear that this could have been the beginning of that sort of behavior and it would escalate into something much bigger. I wanted to nip it in the bud and find the best way to make my son understand that.

I said already my son is generally a good quiet chap and this was so out of character that I was very shocked. Yes maybe I did over react, I never thought I would be facing these kinds of issues at his age...I thought maybe 15 or 16 but not 12. Again this is a new phase in his life that I have no experience of so it'll be a learning curve for both of us and obviously need to keep a better eye on things.

I also allowed him to go on the trip. Before he went to bed I explained that although what he did was wrong the fact that he did tell me the truth (in the end!) was a good thing. However the xbox is not going to be given back until friday.

I hope this will be the end of this particular episode and fingers crossed he's learned not to do it again. Thanks to everyone who gave helpful advice, tips and support. It is much appreciated however I don't think I'll be in a hurry to come back here looking for advice.

MODS please feel free to lock the thread as the issue has been resolved and I there's nothing more to add.

Thank you.

freshpopcorn

I think your doing your best/good job raising your children.
I think that you might need to do a bit of research on parenting teens either online/book/asking people you know. So you know how deal with situations that might come up in the future.
Good Luck!

January

m'lady wrote: »

I can't believe that a mod has not intervened here- a concerned parent posts a thread looking for advice and it's appears she/he is bring psychoanalysed by another poster? I've seen people on Boards being suspended for less.

OP I do think you should rethink the school trip, but hold onto the xbox and let him do a few chores. I don't accept that you shouldn't be upset, I know I would be deeply hurt to be honest. It's been mentioned and I'll say it again, could he be getting bullied?

Mods have lives too you know.