Depreciated refund from Samsung

stimpson

My 5 year old Samsung TV started turning itself off last week. This is a known issue with the TV, and Samsung sent out a repair man last Thursday to attempt a fix. Whatever he did didn't work, and now the TV won't switch on at all. He said it needs a new main board from Samsung. He rang me on Friday and said the main board was out of stock and I had to ring Samsung about it.

I rang Sammy customer care on Friday evening and I was told it would take 2 working days to approve a refund. Grand I thought and I emailed them the invoice for the TV. I rang them today and I was offered a depreciated refund. I wasn't told how much this might be, but I was asked if I agreed to it. I didn't agree to it and I asked for them to put their position in writing so I can decide what to do.

Where does this leave me? I know the Sale of Good act says that my contract is with the Retailer, but before Samsung attempted a repair, my TV was still useable (it turned off after about 1/2 an hour). Now I have a big black box with a flashing red light. I could be offered €100 and be left with a useless TV a week before Christmas - hardly fair. Can I take Samsung to the Small Claims Court?

Doom

Doesn't appear that you were supplied with goods fit for purpose. ..I would expect more than 5yrs out of a tv.
Full refund imo no lesa

D3PO

is the tv still in warranty ?

Tippex

TBH if you bring the case to the small claims court you will only get a percentage of what you paid for the TV ie it will be discounted down by 5 years so may not be much more than what Samsung are offering you.

I haven't been through this process so I'm not 100% on this.

stimpson

No - TV is out of warranty, but was useable until Samsung attempted a repair. I just got this in an email:

As requested I have put into writing the advice that I gave you today regarding your unit LE40M86BDX/XEU. The unit is now out of warranty. Although an alternative resolution has been authorised the only thing we can offer is a depreciated refund.

We have based this decsion on the warranty status of your unit.

This is a set amount of money which will be issued using the depreciation scale from which the unit was purchased. As discussed, due to various processes I do not know what the actual total will be.

If you decide that you want to go ahead with this please do not hestitate to contact us on 03307267864 and we can make the necessary arrangements.

As regards to your question regarding the lifespan of your unit. Every unit is manufactured with a certain life expectancy and although you did state that the T.V was working we have to take this fact into account.

D3PO

How can they expect you to accept the refund without telling you the exact amount. That's ridiculous.

As for the TV being useable before they attempted a repair that's not exactly true if it switched off every half hour it was only partially useable really. If the amount was reasonable then I think its fair enough as you have had 5 years use of the TV and it is out of warranty, but in fairness you need to know what that figure is first and going to small claims court will discount for 5 years use anyway.

Nody

stimpson wrote: »

My 5 year old Samsung TV started turning itself off last week. This is a known issue with the TV, and Samsung sent out a repair man last Thursday to attempt a fix. Whatever he did didn't work, and now the TV won't switch on at all. He said it needs a new main board from Samsung. He rang me on Friday and said the main board was out of stock and I had to ring Samsung about it.

I rang Sammy customer care on Friday evening and I was told it would take 2 working days to approve a refund. Grand I thought and I emailed them the invoice for the TV. I rang them today and I was offered a depreciated refund. I wasn't told how much this might be, but I was asked if I agreed to it. I didn't agree to it and I asked for them to put their position in writing so I can decide what to do.

Where does this leave me? I know the Sale of Good act says that my contract is with the Retailer, but before Samsung attempted a repair, my TV was still useable (it turned off after about 1/2 an hour). Now I have a big black box with a flashing red light. I could be offered €100 and be left with a useless TV a week before Christmas - hardly fair. Can I take Samsung to the Small Claims Court?

Your contract is with the store so you'd need to take the store to the SCC and you've weakend your position by dealing directly with Samsung (you did not give the retailer an oppertunity to fix your problem).

Even in SCC I'd guess you'd get a depriciated verdict in some form though as you've had and used the TV for 5 years but first stop will be the retailer.

stimpson

Unfortunately the retailer was Pixmania. I don't fancy my chances.

username123

Doom wrote: »

I would expect more than 5yrs out of a tv.

Really? the days where appliances lasted 10+ years are long gone, cheaper components these days. Mind you, they dont cost as much to buy in the first place so I suppose its much of a muchness.

I got 5 years out of my last tv and when a component failed (hdmi port) I just bought a new one and thought Id done well to get 5 years out of it!

stimpson

username123 wrote: »

Really? the days where appliances lasted 10+ years are long gone, cheaper components these days. Mind you, they dont cost as much to buy in the first place so I suppose its much of a muchness.

I got 5 years out of my last tv and when a component failed (hdmi port) I just bought a new one and thought Id done well to get 5 years out of it!

My previous telly was a Panasonic and it lasted 12 years. Cost less than the Sammy too.

Does anyone know what rate of depreciation SCC would use. 10% p.a. would yield €500. 20% would yield SFA.

username123

stimpson wrote: »

My previous telly was a Panasonic and it lasted 12 years. Cost less than the Sammy too.

Yeah, my previous telly lasted a lot longer too.

What is Samsungs position here - take the depreciated refund or take nothing? Like, what if you say - I cant take it unless I know the amount? Where does that leave you?

They could be using any rate of depreciation - not necessarily anything listed anywhere except in a spreadsheet in their accounts office.

Doom

username123 wrote: »

Really? the days where appliances lasted 10+ years are long gone, cheaper components these days. Mind you, they dont cost as much to buy in the first place so I suppose its much of a muchness.

I got 5 years out of my last tv and when a component failed (hdmi port) I just bought a new one and thought Id done well to get 5 years out of it!

5yrs is poor in my opinion, nearly all of my domestic products have lasted well over 8 yrs, only one to go was washing machine (overloading)

WildCardDoW

Doesn't appear that you were supplied with goods fit for purpose. ..I would expect more than 5yrs out of a tv.
Full refund imo no lesa

Previous experiences of people here suggests that is unlikely even from SCC!

stimpson

username123 wrote: »

Yeah, my previous telly lasted a lot longer too.

What is Samsungs position here - take the depreciated refund or take nothing? Like, what if you say - I cant take it unless I know the amount? Where does that leave you?

They could be using any rate of depreciation - not necessarily anything listed anywhere except in a spreadsheet in their accounts office.

Samsung's position is basically, accept an unknown depreciated amount or feck off.

username123

stimpson wrote: »

Samsung's position is basically, accept an unknown depreciated amount or feck off.

Well then - what choice is there? Take the depreciated refund. Its better than nothing which is the other option!

username123

Doom wrote: »

5yrs is poor in my opinion, nearly all of my domestic products have lasted well over 8 yrs, only one to go was washing machine (overloading)

Yeah it is poor - but it is generally reflective of most appliances I have bought in the past 7 years - the exception being the washing machine.

RangeR

My stance would be. TV was operational before Sammy's repair guys showed up. Now it's totally fooked. Fix my TV.

stimpson

username123 wrote: »

Well then - what choice is there? Take the depreciated refund. Its better than nothing which is the other option!

The other option is the Small Claims court.

My issue isn't with the product, rather it's with the repair service that left me with a bricked TV.

GarIT

They damaged your (property) TV, that's a full refund or replacement.

They are responsible for returning it to the condition it was in before they had it, which they won't be able to do.

stimpson

RangeR wrote: »

My stance would be. TV was operational before Sammy's repair guys showed up. Now it's totally fooked. Fix my TV.

This might actually work.

username123

Hang on, tv was shutting itself off before repair, so wasn't really usable. They are offering you depreciated refund as though it had been working fine. You would hardly expect a full refund on something you had use of for 5 years? I don't see why you won't go for the partial refund? What are you actually expecting to get? They broke something that was already faulty and are offering you the value of it.

TheDriver

think the effort to get anywhere (even though us spectators want to see the result of such protracted efforts) will be futile, the depreciated amount will be worth it. IMO 5 years from a TV is fair enough game in this day and age, tech has usually moved on lots since 5 years ago anyways.......

stimpson

username123 wrote: »

Hang on, tv was shutting itself off before repair, so wasn't really usable. They are offering you depreciated refund as though it had been working fine. You would hardly expect a full refund on something you had use of for 5 years? I don't see why you won't go for the partial refund? What are you actually expecting to get? They broke something that was already faulty and are offering you the value of it.

It was shutting off after about half an hour. It was in some way useable. Now it's only useable as a flashing red LED.

I don't mind a partial refund, but they are not telling me beforehand what this refund is going to be. 30% might be fair enough, but 10% - what use is that to me?

username123

stimpson wrote: »

It was shutting off after about half an hour. It was in some way useable. Now it's only useable as a flashing red LED.

I don't mind a partial refund, but they are not telling me beforehand what this refund is going to be. 30% might be fair enough, but 10% - what use is that to me?

But the alternative is zero, or small claims court (time, stress, risk of worse outcome). For a 5 year old telly, personally I'd be taking any cash back on it.

Best of luck anyway, hope you get whatever it is you want.

Leitrim Lady

Hi,
Working in retail and one that sells Tvs I'd be thinking you'll be offered about 20% of original price.There's a myth about 6year warranties but there is a 6 year "duty of care".I doubt very much it will change whether you deal with the manufacturer or the retailer.I believe the reasoning behind this is along the lines of that you have had 5 year use and a full refund would mean you didn't pay for the use of said Tv for those years.I understand there is another issue here as the a Tv was working(albeit intermittently)before Samsung rep got their hands on it but just thought Id throw in my 2pence worth.Hope you get it sorted as it's already an expensive time of year.

athtrasna

Hi OP - ask Samsung to replace the television. We had problems with a 4 year old one...sound no picture, also a known fault. TV cost about €2.5k at purchase time. To cut a long story short, a repair was quoted at €900 and a new equivalent TV was circa €800 so Samsung replaced the TV within 3 days.

We found with Samsung that the key was who you got to talk to. Many of them work almost exclusively off a script. I got lucky on the fourth call and got a nice Scottish guy who sorted me out straight away.

Samsung guarantee for tvs is only 1 year but your consumer rights exceed this, goods need to be fit for purpose.

norrie rugger

I've been through the SCC for a ps3 and got a full refund after 3 years use btw.

Fries-With-That

The problem you have is a know issue with the particular TV Model, Samsung know this and AFAIK they recalled these televisions in America when the problem presented itself.

Any reasonably competent TV repair person should be able to fix your TV.

The problem is usually a few capacitors on the power supply board, the repair guy knows this too, but all he is authorised to do is replace a board.

If I was in your situation I'd take what they are offering and use it to pay someone to repair the TV.

Saying all that I suspect that the service guy you had out to look at it has left an internal cable unplugged if it won't even switch on.

At this stage I'd get someone local that fixes TVs to have a look at it.

Google samsung tv repair (using model number), you'll find several short videos on youtube showing how to fix the problem.

homer911

athtrasna wrote: »

Hi OP - ask Samsung to replace the television. We had problems with a 4 year old one...sound no picture, also a known fault. TV cost about €2.5k at purchase time. To cut a long story short, a repair was quoted at €900 and a new equivalent TV was circa €800 so Samsung replaced the TV within 3 days.

Jeepers - 2.5k on a TV depreciated to 800 in 4 years. Celtic tiger eat your heart out!

Bepolite

Leitrim Lady wrote: »

Hi,
Working in retail and one that sells Tvs I'd be thinking you'll be offered about 20% of original price.There's a myth about 6year warranties but there is a 6 year "duty of care".I doubt very much it will change whether you deal with the manufacturer or the retailer.I believe the reasoning behind this is along the lines of that you have had 5 year use and a full refund would mean you didn't pay for the use of said Tv for those years.I understand there is another issue here as the a Tv was working(albeit intermittently)before Samsung rep got their hands on it but just thought Id throw in my 2pence worth.Hope you get it sorted as it's already an expensive time of year.

There are two peices of legislation at work here, the Sale of Goods Acts which stipulate the right of the consumer and the duties of the the retailer. There is then the Statute of Limitations Act, 1957 as amended that provides that a contract under the SOGA is limited to a period of six years to make a claim. Interestingly there are some exceptions but I'll spare you all the law lecture.

The small claims court may offer you more or about the same as Samsung, it will be the retailer you will have to sue and an award in court then needs to be enforced, in this case against Pixamania based in France. Good luck with that one. I'd take the money from Samsung in all honesty. Try to negotiate with the for a decent amount, TVs are much cheaper now.

Bepolite

homer911 wrote: »

Jeepers - 2.5k on a TV depreciated to 800 in 4 years. Celtic tiger eat your heart out!

I love my HD plasma but want to cry at what you can get them for now!

Bepolite

norrie rugger wrote: »

I've been through the SCC for a ps3 and got a full refund after 3 years use btw.

May I ask, was this in default? e.g. did the retailer turn up or even return any of the paperwork. How did you find enforcement or did they just cough up once you had the judgment?

Doom

Simple. ..ask for same current spec equipment as you had...like for like

A company I used to work for were taken to the SCC over a faulty laptop (15 months old I believe) and lost the case. They were ordered to give a depreciated refund rather than a full refund.

Bepolite

Karsini wrote: »

A company I used to work for were taken to the SCC over a faulty laptop (15 months old I believe) and lost the case. They were ordered to give a depreciated refund rather than a full refund.

That's certainly the normal course of events where the company engages with the process, a full refund is normally given where the company won't engage with the process.

massy086

this is one of the easy,st repairs on a tv going.can you tell me op what the repair guy did.and how long was he at the tv???

The rule applied by the Courts generally is that if you can claim then it is only up to the value of the item. So if a 5 year old car is written off, then you can only claim the value of a 5 year old car of the same make, model and mileage. Haven't heard a Judge using terms like full and depreciated value, it's the value of the item pre "incident". Which of course makes sense. So in this instance if the OP succeeds it can only be for the value of a 5 year old Samsung, nothing more. That's a very general rule, there will be exceptions like if an item gives trouble from day 1. But in this case the OP had use of the tv for years and cannot claim for more than its current value. As for comparative values, in cars there is a book value, for other goods I'd just get on Done Deal or EBay.

Bepolite

massy086 wrote: »

this is one of the easy,st repairs on a tv going.can you tell me op what the repair guy did.and how long was he at the tv???

On this note as some seem to be suggesting it can be repaired, there is nothing to stop you getting the repair done and suing the retailer for the cost of the repair btw.

athtrasna

homer911 wrote: »

Jeepers - 2.5k on a TV depreciated to 800 in 4 years. Celtic tiger eat your heart out!

Yeah...we bought when the technology was new..then it became common and cheap.

norrie rugger

TheDriver wrote: »

think the effort to get anywhere (even though us spectators want to see the result of such protracted efforts) will be futile, the depreciated amount will be worth it. IMO 5 years from a TV is fair enough game in this day and age, tech has usually moved on lots since 5 years ago anyways.......

Why could they not offer a like for like replacement??

username123

norrie rugger wrote: »

Why could they not offer a like for like replacement??

What would you suggest as a like for like replacement for a 5 year old tv? Another 5 year old tv?

They may not have such a thing.

norrie rugger

That's their problem. Toshiba upgraded my old 42" TV when it developed a fault, after 3 years.

A T.V. should reasonably last more than 5 years and a SCC judge would accept a like for like replacement (or a modern equivalent)

dudara

It seems like a "like for like" replacement would be a good option to push for. Ask them to replace the TV with one of similar spec and grade. Those types of TVs should be pretty cheap these days.

username123

dudara wrote: »

It seems like a "like for like" replacement would be a good option to push for. Ask them to replace the TV with one of similar spec and grade. Those types of TVs should be pretty cheap these days.

Given what I bolded - then why not take the money and buy one? Its the same difference is it not?

witnessmenow

username123 wrote: »

Given what I bolded - then why not take the money and buy one? Its the same difference is it not?

Because they don't know what the money is. As he said they could offer him 30% of the price he paid or they could offer him 5%

Its absolutely bonkers that you would need to accept a deal before you know the amount.

stimpson

I rang again today. Spent half an hour on the phone and got the runaround - just following the script.

The best they could do was to get finance dept to write to me with depreciation offer - likely to be after Christmas.

I'm thinking the SCC might be worth a lash just for kicks and giggles. I doubt Samsung are going to send anyone, or might come up with a better offer when they get called to appear.

Bepolite

stimpson wrote: »

I rang again today. Spent half an hour on the phone and got the runaround - just following the script.

The best they could do was to get finance dept to write to me with depreciation offer - likely to be after Christmas.

I'm thinking the SCC might be worth a lash just for kicks and giggles. I doubt Samsung are going to send anyone, or might come up with a better offer when they get called to appear.

The problem you have is you've no course of action against Samsung in contract. I suspect the class action in the US was under tort, or perhaps US consumer law allows the manufacturer to be sued, but Irish law does not. Samsung will simply ignore the summons and rightly so. Approach the retailer.

stimpson

Bepolite wrote: »

The problem you have is you've no course of action against Samsung in contract. I suspect the class action in the US was under tort, or perhaps US consumer law allows the manufacturer to be sued, but Irish law does not. Samsung will simply ignore the summons and rightly so. Approach the retailer.

Normally I would agree with you, but Samsung's repair man left the TV completely dead, so I would expect them to be liable to put the TV back to it's pre "repair" state at the very least.

Bepolite

stimpson wrote: »

Normally I would agree with you, but Samsung's repair man left the TV completely dead, so I would expect them to be liable to put the TV back to it's pre "repair" state at the very least.

Yes you can sue them for damage to the TV but really this is going to be a bit of a waste of time. It isn't a court you're dealing with but a registrar trying to prevent it going to the district court. I'd venture the reg is probably going to look at you a bit funny when you have other avenues.

Your dime of course.

RangeR

Bepolite wrote: »

The problem you have is you've no course of action against Samsung in contract. I suspect the class action in the US was under tort, or perhaps US consumer law allows the manufacturer to be sued, but Irish law does not. Samsung will simply ignore the summons and rightly so. Approach the retailer.

OP has a consumer contract with the retailer, yes.

However, Samsung broke his/her TV. They are 100% liable to put the TV back into the condition it was in before they touched it. That or similar recompense [TV of similar spec and price].

Samsung Broke the TV. Unfortunately, even if you go the SCC route, it won't be this side of 2013. At this point, you may want to get yourself a TV to span the holiday. When Sammy fix your TV, you will have two.

• You are going to have to right a formal letter of complaint to Sammy detailing that they [or their agent] broke your TV to a point where it is totally un-unuseable.
• Give them 10 business days to reply.
• Only then will the SCC entertain a case.

stimpson

RangeR wrote: »

OP has a consumer contract with the retailer, yes.

However, Samsung broke his/her TV. They are 100% liable to put the TV back into the condition it was in before they touched it. That or similar recompense [TV of similar spec and price].

Samsung Broke the TV. Unfortunately, even if you go the SCC route, it won't be this side of 2013. At this point, you may want to get yourself a TV to span the holiday. When Sammy fix your TV, you will have two.

• You are going to have to right a formal letter of complaint to Sammy detailing that they [or their agent] broke your TV to a point where it is totally un-unuseable.
• Give them 10 business days to reply.
• Only then will the SCC entertain a case.

Thanks RangeR. Your direct Debit thread has been providing me with much entertainment over the past few months - I hope I can provide you with some more in return

I actually bought a new telly over the weekend - a Samsung as I thought I was going to get a refund after talking to them last week.