Help choosing 1st pair of trail runners

inigo

With Santa coming soon I thought I'd ask him for a pair of trail runners. I've only recently started to run in the mountains (and absolutely love it!!!), having done the Glendalough Trail and Run the Line (11k). I've climbed a few mountains in Wicklow (Djouce, Maulin, Sugar Loaf) in recent weeks. I've already have 2 pairs of road shoes and so wanted to add something more specific for the hills.

I'm in the process of going minimalist and wouldn't like to "spoil" that (I'm down to 8mm drop). Does this matter so much in fell running as opposed to road running? I also wouldn't like to buy the latest (= more expensive) pair if I can avoid it. Should I go for something "hybrid" if there is such a thing or better a proper trail shoe? Any particular recommendations?

BeepBeep67

I have the Inov-8 TR245 (3mm drop) and find them great for the hills, fireroad and grass. There's a TR255 (6mm drop) which is a sensible transition from 8mm.

In the same vein as you, did a good few IMRA races last summer in Asics trail runners and they were grand for most, particularly given the dry weather. No issue on steeper ones like Carrauntoohil or Galtymore, and they were perfect for the more trail like runs like across the Nagles. Still training on them on the Kerry Way. Think I will head into the Asics store in Kildare and get another pair in the next few weeks. Think I'll also be looking for a more aggressively soled specialised mountain running shoe as well though when sales start, just not sure between Walsh, Inov8 and Salomon. There are so many good, bad and indifferent reviews of all of them so think it may be a case of just tossing a coin and seeing if it works for me. Have to concede to being slightly cynical about all this talk about drops, no idea what will work and just have a feeling that runners like Lenihan, Stuart, Bland and Naylor went through careers without hearing that word, but again guess it's whatever works for each runner.

inigo

Thank you for the replies. I was looking online and there seems to be a fair few models at a discount and well under the €100 mark, e.g. Adidas Kanadia and some Asics, in the likes of Debenhams and Life Style Sports. I'll go and try a few, see what they feel like.

By all means try them now, but for buying hold tough till the sales. No big competitive runs between now and then, and you can get them very cheap in a couple of weeks, would expect to pay €40-€50 for a half price pair in the Asics store in Kildare.

inigo

Thanks Conor! That sounds like a very good idea. I had forgotten the sales! I'll certainly hold on for them and save a few quid! In the meantime maybe someone else may have some other suggestions or ideas on the type of trail shoe that would suit me best for the type of trail running I do (on first post).

nerraw1111

The Inov 8 range might be what you're looking for. They're very much about minimalism, with drops of 6mm to zero in most of their shoes. Hand system too, the number refers to the weight of the shoe.

I've the trailroc 255, same shoe as BeepBeep but with less of a drop. They're great for trails but struggle a bit in real muddy conditions. Mudclaw or X-talons would be the better option.

http://www.inov-8.com/New/Global/product-select-off-road-mens.asp?L=26&A=Trail&G=Male

PaulieC

New Balance MT110, available on www.sportsshoes.com for 56 euros incl. delivery. Minimal, excellent drainage, very grippy.

crisco10

Does the drop make that much of a difference?

In a similar situation to the OP except I run in Pegasus (Google tells me that it has a 12mm drop), so would that make the above recommendations irrelevant for me?

crisco10

crisco10 wrote: »

Does the drop make that much of a difference?

Did people even know about it before 2010?

I'm sure it does for loads, and I think it's all about the shoe that the runner feels comfortable with. As long as it grips. So if a drop is important to someone, they should factor it in as not sure they'll perform at their best until they get something that they feel good in.

I could be far too casual, but think most of it is in the head rather than the shoe, and less inclined to really think about it at all. As long as I'm not in flip flops or something Prince might wear on stage!

b.harte

I'm not sure if the arguments about ye-olde shoes are relevant to current shoes.
Yes, I'm firmly in the camp of less is more, particularly in trail shoes, but I think (not believe) that modern materials may in fact be of benefit to a lower profile / drop. The caveat being that nobody knows unless a long term study is done, and even then the results of any study would only be validated against a similar study from a set of comparable metrics involving ye-olde shoes. Such a study may not have been undertaken, so we may never know...all we have to judge is current research and experience / anecdotal evidence.
At which point....
I have used a variety of shoes for road and trail starting with the normal 12mm ish drop down to my current 3 & 6mm drops.
My own opinion, based on my own experience is that there is a noticeable difference with lower drop shoes, particularly if they also have a lower stack height / closer to the ground.
I feel much more confident in a shoe that allows me to feel and react to the conditions underneath, and I know with certainty that I have avoided injury by wearing a shoe that allowed me to feel an imbalance and react to it quickly and didn't wrench my foot due to how high (low in my case) the sole was.

I also know that even if I'm not significantly faster as a result of any of my shoes I now finish long runs fresher and recovery faster. Some of this is down to the shoes as my running technique has changed, my stride has shortened, which makes it easier to travel over uneven ground and my cadence has increased. Similarly the comfort and security I feel in my shoes allows me to run more often, which in turn has improved my overall running. It's a whole picture sort of set-up.
Which is as someone above said. Find a pair of shoes that you are comfortable with and that's a big part of the puzzle.
My current shoes of choice are Inov-8 terrafly as an all-round road-trail shoe, new model out so discounts on the older version, were recently on offer for 86 on sportsshoes.com, usually retail at 132. (currently don't have a pair as decided to try something different, but I will buy another pair). I loved these shoes, comfortable for everything up to 100km+ and lasted well for 1000km. Having said that...the material is really light, I had to patch the toebox twice and I snagged the side on a rock and it ripped, but the rip never got bigger for the next 300+ km which is really impressive. Can't recommend these more highly.

Inov8 Trailrocs 255 and 245, both exceptional shoes with great off road grip on all but the slickest of surface, but really firm on the road. They are an in demand shoe and I've never seen them heavily discounted, again around the 120-130 mark. Great protection with a rockplate but still a very flexible shoes with good ground feel.

All of the inov8 above have a wide toebox which I personally like.

Newest pair I have are Salomon Sense Mantra. These have been a revelation. The fit is superb, really locks my foot in-place and feel so steady underfoot. The fit across the toebox is a bit narrow but getting better with each use. Currently coming up on 150km in these as the are softening up nicely. Grip is similar / slightly better than the terrafly but not quiet as good as the trailrocs. Having said that I got them for long off-road runs where I wanted a little extra cushioning and the added protection of a light rock plate. On paper they have the same 6mm drop as the terrafly but they feel slightly higher at the heel, not sure if it's because they are new and the terrafly were so well worn. The are alos comfortable on the road if a little bit firm. Not sure I would choose these over the terrafly, only a few hundred more km will really tell as I would like to see how well they wear.

Finally, my first dedicated trail shoe was Kanadia TR4, these were more than adequate and a good value shoe, on special somewhere all of the time. The sideways grip on the TR4 was woeful as all the lugs were lined up the same so they used to slip sideways. The TR5 has addressed this by changing the pattern and reviews are positve. From a value point of view this is the way to go, from a minimalism point of view maybe not.
There is even a tricked out elite version that has a speedlace system and a lower profile/drop similar to their posh cousins salomon. I've can't comment as I haven't tried them.The only negative I can say about my experience with Kanadia TR4 is that they wore really badly, the material was prone to rips which got bigger and the stitching internally was poor, mine were binned after 600km.

As you can see, there is no short answer to the question, yes, minimal leanings may promote more efficient less injury prone running but in my mind running off-road tends to do this anyway due to the constant variety. An entry level pair of Kanadia are not proportionately worse than a top of the range pair of inov8 or any other brand, you get out what you put in in terms of quality, but it's only if you are doing a lot of off-road running that the benefits are delivered. Pegasus are also a capable off road shoe, even the standard road version has good grip, but a shoe designed for purpose will always outperform. Again it really depends on what sort of off-road running you would like to do, for gravel or similar maintained trails then road shoes will do, depending on how off-road you go more specific shoes will have better results.
I know this is a long ramble, but this topic comes up at this time every year, I even asked it myself a few years ago, this time at least I can give some first hand information.
No matter what decision you come to and the advice of waiting for sales is worth heeding, you will at least enjoy the difference in you running.

inigo

Wow, thanks b.harte! You've addressed/explained very well what I was thinking about in terms of low profile, small drop, feeling the ground, form, injuries and so on. These are the reasons why I'm looking for a minimalist trail shoe. I went from 12 to 8 mm in road shoes in less than a month due to lack of patience mainly and I only wish I'd done it sooner!

The New Balance MT110 sound like a great compromise in terms of what I need at the moment (I wish I could go out more than a 2-3h once a week) and price. Is there anywhere in Dublin that sell them? I'd rather not buy before I try them...

PaulieC

inigo wrote: »

Wow, thanks b.harte! You've addressed/explained very well what I was thinking about in terms of low profile, small drop, feeling the ground, form, injuries and so on. These are the reasons why I'm looking for a minimalist trail shoe. I went from 12 to 8 mm in road shoes in less than a month due to lack of patience mainly and I only wish I'd done it sooner!

The New Balance MT110 sound like a great compromise in terms of what I need at the moment (I wish I could go out more than a 2-3h once a week) and price. Is there anywhere in Dublin that sell them? I'd rather not buy before I try them...

I don't believe so, but with free delivery from sportsshoes just return them if you don't like them. The original pair is also available on sweatshop for 29 sterlings.

PaulieC

PaulieC wrote: »

The original pair is also available on sweatshop for 29 sterlings.

Talk about pricking the conscience!

A site that tells us where the runners are made!

inigo

For those of you with who have the New Balance MT110, how does the size compare to other shoes? I have Brooks in 9, Saucony in 9.5....

b.harte

inigo wrote: »

how does the size compare to other shoes?....

CLICK-CLICK
Use the "Show me how it fits" button.

inigo

Sorry, do I put in US or UK size?

thirstywork2

PaulieC wrote: »

New Balance MT110, available on www.sportsshoes.com for 56 euros incl. delivery. Minimal, excellent drainage, very grippy.

Good value but ''very grippy'' your aving a laugh.This is designed for hard compact trails like in the US.

Looking for a good all round hybrid trail shoe I would suggest the Saucony Peregrine(light with a nice level of cushioning and 4mm httd)

Innov8 315 the most robust trail shoe on the market and works on most terrain.

Asics I would find difficult to find a descent trail shoe in their range at a price point under €100.Kildare Village will have last seasons stock so maybe in Jan they might have something.

Also regards reducing the hell to toe drop,in trail it is much less impact and having the foot closer to ground helps reduce ankle rolling and more stability/ground contact.

inigo

I've had a look at the Peregrine and the reviews are generally good. It sounds like the kind of shoe I'm looking for. A well known specialist shop sell them so I could go and check them out. It turns out they are approx 50 euro on amazon.com, half the price of the well known specialist shop. A friend of mine is going to the US in January, so it could work out well... Any other gear worth getting in the US, e.g. a good waterproof smock? I already got a GPS watch through another friend and saved 70 euro, which are now going to go towards the shoes!

PaulieC

thirstywork2 wrote: »

Good value but ''very grippy'' your aving a laugh.This is designed for hard compact trails like in the US.

Looking for a good all round hybrid trail shoe I would suggest the Saucony Peregrine(light with a nice level of cushioning and 4mm httd)

Innov8 315 the most robust trail shoe on the market and works on most terrain.

Asics I would find difficult to find a descent trail shoe in their range at a price point under €100.Kildare Village will have last seasons stock so maybe in Jan they might have something.

Also regards reducing the hell to toe drop,in trail it is much less impact and having the foot closer to ground helps reduce ankle rolling and more stability/ground contact.

YMMV I guess, but I've had no problems with them on any trails around Dublin/wicklow mountains in all sorts of conditions. I find them great, really give confidence, especially on downhills.
WRT sizing, I wear size 9 normally and my 110s are UK 9.5, US 10, EUR 44.

thirstywork2

inigo wrote: »

I've had a look at the Peregrine and the reviews are generally good. It sounds like the kind of shoe I'm looking for. A well known specialist shop sell them so I could go and check them out. It turns out they are approx 50 euro on amazon.com, half the price of the well known specialist shop. A friend of mine is going to the US in January, so it could work out well... Any other gear worth getting in the US, e.g. a good waterproof smock? I already got a GPS watch through another friend and saved 70 euro, which are now going to go towards the shoes!

Had a look there and the Peregrine is from 2-3 years ago and available size uk4-6.5

Also last years and model and more expensive on Amazon.


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Saucony-ProGrid-Peregrine-Trail-Running/dp/B004KDWPEC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1387651459&sr=8-1&keywords=saucony+peregrine

T runner

I use adidas kanadia. IMO you need stud like grips for irish trails/hills and the kanadia 4 has these to a decent degree. Light with decent cushioning and performs as good on the road/ hard trail as any trail shoe ive used. You should be able to get them for 50-60 euro in ireland.

inigo

I've finally gone for the Saucony Peregrine 3 for just under 50 euro :cool: on amazon.com with free US shipping to a friend's friend, which means I won't see them until the end of January. Can't complain for the prize though and seeing the weather lately I'm sticking to the streets for the time being...

By the way, I found out that selecting the orange shoes and size on amazon.com, the prize went down to $59.58 when the original prize range was $99.95 - $148.64. :D

Thanks again for all your comments and suggestions.

inigo

They're finally here... I only have to go try them now. I'll post an update when that happens, hopefully tomorrow evening.

Thank you all for comments and suggestions.

PaulieC

inigo wrote: »

They're finally here... I only have to go try them now. I'll post an update when that happens, hopefully tomorrow evening.

Thank you all for comments and suggestions.

Look very tasty. Not for long though, hopefully

wrstan

Just saw this now.

Review of 2014 trail shoes in January's Running Times

Although I'm never sure what you learn from these magazing based reviews, apart from checking out this season's snazzy colours

ThisRegard

How could they have such a list and not review any Innov8s ?

Got Walshes off some fellow on Ebay for the open mountain stuff, they landed in the other day, great condition and less than €30. The fit is perfect, that might be a little tight in race conditions but guess they're only gonna be used in bursts of an hour or 2. Plus they are my first proper aggressive soled shoe, didn't want to spend €90 on new Inovs and find I just didn't like them after a race or 2.

Ordered Kanadia 5s off Pete Bland Sports, they're a couple of quid cheaper there than Sportshoes. Went for half a size larger as heard they can be snug and plan on using them for long trail runs, the 3/4 hours stuff. So will come back with a review for you, they seem popular and the general reaction seems good. As I said already, know nothing about drops and all that.

inigo

I took them for a spin around UCD on Tuesday...

First impressions are good, but I only run on mud and wet grass. Wicklow in the weekend will be next!

spurscormac

ThisRegard wrote: »

How could they have such a list and not review any Innov8s ?

I think what they're doing there is reviewing new shoes for this season. I don't think Inov-8 have introduced any new shoes this time around, so not included in the list reviewed.

ThisRegard

Yeah, good point.

PaulieC

thirstywork2 wrote: »

Good value but ''very grippy'' your aving a laugh.This is designed for hard compact trails like in the US.

Might have found the weak point on these this morning on descent of Maulin. We had to go down a reasonably muddy trail and I slipped a couple of times. They were grand everywhere else, but I really had to slow it down on that section, which cost me about 4 places I reckon.
It could also have been because the pair I HD this morning were pretty trashed and the lugs that should have gripped were pretty much worn away. I have a new pair, but they are the silver/lime combination and haven't been worn yet. No way they were making a debut at an IMRA race