Leo says Dart Underground likely to part of next investment proposals

Banjoxed

corktina wrote: »

It was €800 million I believe and will be less now I'm sure.

By all means improve the dangerous sections and let's bypass Mallow, Buttevant and Charleville whilst we are at it. There wont be too many kilometres left to so then! (won't happen in my lifetime)

So your agenda is basically don't build railways but build motorways because railways rob roads of investment. An entirely logical conclusion from your posts on this thread alone. Perhaps you will point out where exactly DU will rob money from improvements for road professionals and other users? I can't recall that either/or situation ever being put up, in reality.

end of the road

theirs room for both rail and road between our cities and the places that currently have railways, even a couple of the railways which closed under the rein of terror in the 50s 60s and 70s should never have been and i believe should still be reopened (navan and bray harcourt street) all though harcourt street as a terminus isn't an option so it could go underground and link into dart underground, it will have to be when the luas infrastructure needs replacing and some more development happens around the area.

corktina

Banjoxed wrote: »

So your agenda is basically don't build railways but build motorways because railways rob roads of investment. An entirely logical conclusion from your posts on this thread alone. Perhaps you will point out where exactly DU will rob money from improvements for road professionals and other users? I can't recall that either/or situation ever being put up, in reality.

if you read back you'll see I advocated investing in the major rail routes and commuter, putting DU, MN and the M20 as my top three for investment. Your post is entirely in your head my friend. (Charleville to Patrickswell wouldn't be in my top 300!)

monument

bk wrote: »

Yes, DU will greatly improve the existing network, but it won't actually bring rail based transport to any new people. It will just mean those who already have rail based transport will get closer into the city center and potentially higher frequency of services *.

It will transform much of the poor / lower level / disjointed rail access into a more reliable, higher frequency, much more integrated and more useful network. Extra capacity and connections even in the areas served by current Dart will allow extra people to use the service.

The Dublin rail network post DU will hardly be comparable to the current disjointed mess.

The Dart and Luas networks would for passengers combine to become one large rail network.

bk wrote: »

MN on the other hand will almost completely serve parts of the city that have never had rail based transport.

DU will also bring new train stations to areas such as Christ Church, Inchicore, and in a meaningful way for urban services from the Docklands, Drumcondra, and Heuston. A new station at Phibsborough / Glasnevin is very likely post DU.

bk wrote: »

North Dublin is actually the most densely populated part of the city, actually more densely populated then the already well served south side of the city. And of course it brings a rail link to the airport and a rail link to Swords (the largest town in Ireland)

As above Drumcondra, Phibsborough, south Glasnevin, Docklands, Christ Church / Dublin 8, Heuston area, and Islandbridge all served by DU. DU would have a far higher penetration of Dublin's most densely populated areas and some of the most densely populated clusters.

It would also bring meaningful services to south and north western areas of the city -- ie Adamstown, Blanch, Ashtown, Clondalkin, Lucan etc.

bk wrote: »

and many other important landmarks like DCU, Croke Park, Mater Hospital, etc.

Dart would serve the following, all within 500m:

• Croke Park
• The O2
• IFSC
• The Convention Centre Dublin
• Bord Gáis Energy Theatre
• Christ Church
• Irish Museum of Modern Art
• National Museum of Ireland at Collins Barracks
• Phoenix Park (to the main gate and just over 500m at the north end)
• St Patrick's Cathedral

And better connections and higher frequency to places like Lansdowne Road and the RDS.

Nearly all of Metro North's interchanges are shared with DU, but DU would have extra ones at:

• Heuston
• Pearse
• Docklands
• Broombridge
• (and a possible future interchange at Inchicore)

patrickbrophy18

corktina wrote: »

MN and DU can't both be no1!

The thing is that both Metro North and DART Underground are designed to complement each other. Firstly, DART Underground will significantly reduce congestion at Connolly Station which has become a bottleneck for train services. It is also vital in enabling the operation of 2 DART lines:

1. Greystones/Bray - Maynooth/Pace: This will connect major intermediate locations such as Dun Laoghaire, Blackrock, Sydney Parade, Landsdowne Road, The City Center (Grand Canal Dock, Pearse Street, Tara Street and Connolly), Drumcondra, Broombridge, Phoenix Park, Castleknock (with it's close proximity to Blanchardstown) and Dunboyne. Other medium sized towns like Shankill, Dalkey, Sandycove, Monkstown, Booterstown, Ashtown, Coolmine, Clonsilla, Leixlip Confey and Leixlip Louisa Bridge will benefit from it as well.
2. Howth/Drogheda - Hazelhatch & Celbridge: This will serve the major towns of Balbriggan, Malahide, Howth, Portmarnock, Clongriffin, Howth Junction, Raheny, Clontarf, The City Center (Docklands, Pearse Street, St. Stephens Green, Christchurch, Heuston), Inchicore, Cherry Orchard & Parkwest and Adamstown. The more moderate suburbs or Gormanston, Skerries, Rush & Lusk, Donabate, Sutton, Kilbarrack, Harmonstown, Clondalkin and Kishoge.

The two DART lines will form an X-shape with Pearse Street Station being a major interchange between them. Some of the other new notable interchanges will be St. Stephens Green (where the second DART line will meet Metro North and the Green Luas Line), Drumcondra (where the first DART line will meet Metro North).


Metro North has a major business case unto itself. To begin with, it will connect with DART Line 2 and the Luas Green Line at it's terminus in St. Stephens Green and DART Line 1 at Drumcondra. It will connect with the Luas Red Line at O'Connell Street. It will serve Parnell Square which is a major shopping district and transportation hub. It will provide fast access to the Mater Hospital. Dublin City University is the next major stop and a strong contributor to the Metro North business case. Ballymun has one of the biggest home-wares stores in the country (IKEA) adding a hell of a lot more weight to the business case. Dublin Airport is an international hub and a business case all by itself and is one of the comparatively few airports in Europe without a rail link to it's corresponding city. The last major stop for Metro North is the large population center of Swords with upwards of 30,000 people, shopping centers and industrial parks.


To sum it up, DART Underground and Metro North are the most important pieces in the public transport jigsaw puzzle in relieving congestion in Dublin City. In the paragraphs above, I have hopefully explained why both projects are needed.



Based on the success of DART Underground and Metro North, the development of Metro West should then proceed. Metro West would be a major catalyst in relieving congestion on the M50. With important interchanges at Harristown, Blanchardstown, Porterstown, Liffey Valley, Fonthill, Clondalkin and Belgard, I can see it being a massive success. However, I think it should be extended beyond Tallaght to serve other major areas like Ballyboden, Dundrum, Sandyford, Cornelscourt and Dun Laoghaire. Effectively, this would behave like the M50 of rail systems.

corktina

I didn't say you couldn't have both, I said they can't both be No1

patrickbrophy18

end of the road wrote: »

theirs room for both rail and road between our cities and the places that currently have railways, even a couple of the railways which closed under the rein of terror in the 50s 60s and 70s should never have been and i believe should still be reopened (navan and bray harcourt street) all though harcourt street as a terminus isn't an option so it could go underground and link into dart underground, it will have to be when the luas infrastructure needs replacing and some more development happens around the area.

Excellent point here. I think that, eventually when the funds permit, the Green Luas Line could be restored back to the heavy rail line it once was. The original plans where to link the old Harcourt Street Line with the Maynooth Line via Broadstone Station by means of an underground tunnel. Unfortunately, this never took off. Anyway, there would be a huge benefit to this if it were to be brought to fruition. This would allow for underground stations at St. Stephens Green, Temple Bar and Jervis Street before surfacing at Broadstone. From here, it would call at Broombridge, Ashtown, Navan Road Park Way (formerly Phoenix Park Station) and the remain stations to Maynooth or Pace. The Luas BXD Line is a good short-term solution to test the demand. But, ultimately, I would like to see all road level tram systems evolving into fast underground DART systems. Between James' and The Point, the Luas Red Line behaves a lot like a glorified bus system with stops in quick succession. It's open nature also makes it too accessible and prone to abuse by fare evaders and other undesirable crowds.

D.L.R.

bk wrote: »

Yes, I'd expect either DU or MN.

LUAS BXD was the stop gap infrastructure project to do during the recession.

Now that we are slowly starting to come out of the recession, there are only a few major infrastructure projects on the plate, DU, MN and maybe the M20

I can't really think of any others. Anybody else?

Dublin Outer Orbital Motorway :rolleyes:
Dublin Eastern Bypass :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

cgcsb

corktina wrote: »

... an hour, in each direction....

what?

leshamry

Don't expect any architecture...

Washington DC Metro Awarded AIA 25 Year Award

http://www.archdaily.com/466551/washington-dc-metro-awarded-aia-25-year-award/