America Resembles a Broken Banana Republic

MilanPan!c

Jonny7 wrote: »

If you can make it through the swathes of kids begging in the streets

You say that, but I've been to neighbourhoods in the US that would make you less certain about all of this.

There's a "neighbourhood" near where I grew up that's basically a shanty town - wooden shacks in the woods, with no running water or electricity, no windows and rugs for doors... and kids live there with their families... and yes, I have been there... and no it's not just one place.

There's amazing poverty in the US, but the media and most people ignore it, for pretty obvious reasons.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

MilanPan!c

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Hyperbole is a type of rhetoric - by definition.

I agree that the US' poverty problems are wildly different than those of India, but the US leaves way too many people behind - and the problems are all getting worse - not better. Well, who knows how Obamacare will eventually play out, but the rest of the problems seem to be deepening steadily.

As for the endless banging on about the airports, I've already responded to it; not sure why you keep bringing it up. Oh well.

Jonny7

MilanPan!c wrote: »

You say that, but I've been to neighbourhoods in the US that would make you less certain about all of this.

There's a "neighbourhood" near where I grew up that's basically a shanty town - wooden shacks in the woods, with no running water or electricity, no windows and rugs for doors... and kids live there with their families... and yes, I have been there... and no it's not just one place.

There's amazing poverty in the US, but the media and most people ignore it, for pretty obvious reasons.

I know all about the poverty in the States, Detroit, hurricane Katrina, etc, etc - its on our TV screens, images in news reports, articles, reports, pieces, it's unescapable, even in TV shows, etc. Same in Ireland, even during the "Celtic Tiger" we had and still have terrible poverty, no go areas, vast housing estates that the police don't touch.. it's horrendous, but also a feature of many countries

There's just nothing to gain by misrepresenting it - either by masking it, or by over-playing it for some agenda

Jonny7

In one thread we have the US being presented as a tinpot banana republic and in another pre-uprising Libya as a shimmering oasis of prosperity in N Africa..

What next? Wales as a great holiday destination?

clairefontaine

MilanPan!c wrote: »

Wellllll... US schools have not always been terrible. There's AMPLE evidence that they're growing worse and losing all competitiveness.

Statistically the infrastructure is awful... it was recently upgraded to a D+...

http://www.asce.org/ascenews/featured.aspx?id=23622324272&blogid=25769815007

The VAST majority of goods are not sent by rail, but by truck:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trucking_industry_in_the_United_States#Economic_impact

City populations are now growing faster than suburb populations:

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2013/05/23/u-s-cities-growing-faster-than-suburbs/

what percentage, in 2013, live in cities vs suburbs is open to debate, but it's not as dramatic as you make it out to be.

As for why businesses are going to the south, not the north of the US:



http://www.nbcnews.com/business/manufacturing-jobs-making-comeback-southern-u-s-1C7660234

and



http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/the-avenue/posts/2013/10/09-auto-sector-wage-competition-andes-muro

The cost of electricity is basically uniform across the US except in NE and California: http://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/



So, you're really wrong about all of this.

If they spent less time on talking about bull**** diversity and more on math then we might get somewhere.

I don't want to see Kwanzaa magazines coming home in the school bag. I want to see maaaath!!

Plus, alterne failed to ,emotion the cost of fuel units Swedish socialist paradise.

clairefontaine

MilanPan!c wrote: »

There's no doubt it's a total picture, but I'm not sure this is easy to completely dismiss.

For instance, the US poverty rate is around 15% whereas the Indian poverty rate is about 22%.

Consider everything the US has over India, in theory, and yet the reality is the US has a decreasing standard of living, relatively poor health, and education, and a shrinking middle class.

Those are real issues and whether or not you like the way the author framed those questions is sort of beside the point, at least to me.

Hope that makes sense.

If rather be poor in the US than middle class in Europe.

I bet the author is sitting in his NYU dorm wiping guacamole off is Che Guevara tee shirt, and getting into his underpants for a good old game of world of Warcraft.

clairefontaine

clairefontaine wrote: »

If they spent less time on talking about bull**** diversity and more on math then we might get somewhere.

I don't want to see Kwanzaa magazines coming home in the school bag. I want to see maaaath!!

Plus, alterne failed to ,emotion the cost of fuel units Swedish socialist paradise.

English as well as maths...

clairefontaine

Deleted User wrote: »

English as well as maths...

Aren't you funny?

Sell it to Apple's auto correct department.

MonaPizza

The latest from that land of reason, logic, peace, freedom and understanding:

In Pennsylvania, a ten-year-old boy was suspended for shooting an imaginary “arrow” at a fellow classmate, using nothing more than his hands and his imagination. Johnny Jones, a fifth grader at South Eastern Middle School, was suspended for a day and threatened with expulsion under the school’s weapons policy after playfully using his hands to draw the bowstrings on a pretend “bow” and “shoot” an arrow at a classmate who had held his folder like an imaginary gun and “shot” at Johnny. Principal John Horton characterized Johnny’s transgression as “making a threat” to another student using a “replica or representation of a firearm” through the use of an imaginary bow and arrow.

In Utah, a seven-year-old boy was arrested and berated by police because he ran away from school. The boy showed up at his mother’s house late in the afternoon, at which point he explained that he had left the school of his own accord. The mother called the school and explained what happened, at which point the principal decided to call the police, despite knowing the boy was in the protection of his mother. An officer arrived at the house, told the boy to “straighten up,” took him outside, handcuffed him, and yelled at him saying, “Is this the life you want?”

In Colorado, a six-year-old boy was suspended and accused of sexual harassment for kissing the hand of a girl in his class whom he had a crush on. Child psychologist Sandy Wurtele commented on the case noting that for first graders like Hunter Yelton things like kissing are a normal part of development, and that the school’s reaction sends mixed messages to developing minds. After a good deal of negative publicity, Canon City Schools Superintendent Robin Gooldy decided to alter the offense from “sexual harassment” to “misconduct.”

In New York, three students were arrested while waiting for a bus to arrive and take them to a basketball scrimmage. The three were part of a group of a dozen basketball players who were waiting on a downtown sidewalk as per their coach’s instructions, when they were approached by a police officer who demanded they disperse. They explained that they were waiting for a bus, but the officer decided to arrest them anyway. Even when the coach arrived and explained to the officer that the boys were simply waiting for a bus so they could get to their scrimmage, the officer would not relent. He actually threatened to arrest the coach as well.


If I was caught, the amount of times I kissed Katy McGovern on the cheek when we were sat together in senior infants, I'd probably be facing the electric chair if these stupid cnuts were around.
Sarah Gavan would probably be stoned to death at the tender age of 6 for tickling me, the revolting sexual predator.

clairefontaine

MonaPizza wrote: »

The latest from that land of reason, logic, peace, freedom and understanding:

In Pennsylvania, a ten-year-old boy was suspended for shooting an imaginary “arrow” at a fellow classmate, using nothing more than his hands and his imagination. Johnny Jones, a fifth grader at South Eastern Middle School, was suspended for a day and threatened with expulsion under the school’s weapons policy after playfully using his hands to draw the bowstrings on a pretend “bow” and “shoot” an arrow at a classmate who had held his folder like an imaginary gun and “shot” at Johnny. Principal John Horton characterized Johnny’s transgression as “making a threat” to another student using a “replica or representation of a firearm” through the use of an imaginary bow and arrow.

In Utah, a seven-year-old boy was arrested and berated by police because he ran away from school. The boy showed up at his mother’s house late in the afternoon, at which point he explained that he had left the school of his own accord. The mother called the school and explained what happened, at which point the principal decided to call the police, despite knowing the boy was in the protection of his mother. An officer arrived at the house, told the boy to “straighten up,” took him outside, handcuffed him, and yelled at him saying, “Is this the life you want?”

In Colorado, a six-year-old boy was suspended and accused of sexual harassment for kissing the hand of a girl in his class whom he had a crush on. Child psychologist Sandy Wurtele commented on the case noting that for first graders like Hunter Yelton things like kissing are a normal part of development, and that the school’s reaction sends mixed messages to developing minds. After a good deal of negative publicity, Canon City Schools Superintendent Robin Gooldy decided to alter the offense from “sexual harassment” to “misconduct.”

In New York, three students were arrested while waiting for a bus to arrive and take them to a basketball scrimmage. The three were part of a group of a dozen basketball players who were waiting on a downtown sidewalk as per their coach’s instructions, when they were approached by a police officer who demanded they disperse. They explained that they were waiting for a bus, but the officer decided to arrest them anyway. Even when the coach arrived and explained to the officer that the boys were simply waiting for a bus so they could get to their scrimmage, the officer would not relent. He actually threatened to arrest the coach as well.


If I was caught, the amount of times I kissed Katy McGovern on the cheek when we were sat together in senior infants, I'd probably be facing the electric chair if these stupid cnuts were around.
Sarah Gavan would probably be stoned to death at the tender age of 6 for tickling me, the revolting sexual predator.

PC liberalism has taken hold of the public schools. Middle class feminism has gotten its chokehold on the boys.

MilanPan!c

clairefontaine wrote: »

PC liberalism has taken hold of the public schools. Middle class feminism has gotten its chokehold on the boys.

yeah, it's not like there's been endless examples of school shootings...

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Jonny7

Or it's just news-fed alarmism

MilanPan!c

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

The article is obviously, as you know, an opinion piece, which OFTEN include statistics and facts. Such articles often use rhetoric. This is basic stuff. Perhaps you've never read an opinion piece before.

Rhetoric is not a logical fallacy; neither is hyperbole.

Tabnabs

clairefontaine wrote: »

If rather be poor in the US than middle class in Europe.

Can you explain this one

clairefontaine

clairefontaine wrote: »

Aren't you funny?

Sell it to Apple's auto correct department.

Would you not check what you're actually posting?!

Quit passing the buck!

clairefontaine

MilanPan!c wrote: »

yeah, it's not like there's been endless examples of school shootings...

You don't think the two are related?

sparksfly

clairefontaine wrote: »

If rather be poor in the US than middle class in Europe.

I bet the author is sitting in his NYU dorm wiping guacamole off is Che Guevara tee shirt, and getting into his underpants for a good old game of world of Warcraft.

I'm middle class in Europe. I have public and private healthcare, state and private pension, 31 days paid holidays. No comparison.

Eggy Baby!

I really wish people would stop describing the USA in ridiculously OTT superlatives and comparisons to third-world countries. It discredits the people who have legitimate criticisms based on facts about the USA. People who compare it to acting like Nazi Germany in its foreign policy, or Obama to Hitler or Stalin, are simply discrediting people who have legitimate concerns about Obama's ridiculous administration or US foreign policy and who are prepared to back them up with data and facts.

The internet is a breeding ground for hyperbolic rhetoric and oversimplified generalisations.

InTheTrees

Eggy Baby! wrote: »

I really wish people would stop describing the USA in ridiculously OTT superlatives and comparisons to third-world countries. It discredits the people who have legitimate criticisms based on facts about the USA. People who compare it to acting like Nazi Germany in its foreign policy, or Obama to Hitler or Stalin, are simply discrediting people who have legitimate concerns about Obama's ridiculous administration or US foreign policy and who are prepared to back them up with data and facts.

The internet is a breeding ground for hyperbolic rhetoric and oversimplified generalisations.

Seriously?

Oh right "ridiculous administration" is a legitimate criticism is it? No need to back up that dumbass comment with "data and facts" huh?

Eggy Baby!

InTheTrees wrote: »

Seriously?

Oh right "ridiculous administration" is a legitimate criticism is it? No need to back up that dumbass comment with "data and facts" huh?

It's my opinion and I didn't want to burden my snappy, witty post with detailed explanations as to why I dislike Obama and his silly government. Don't be so anal.

"Ridiculous" is not an insane superlative. Its an intentional simplification of my position. If I called Obama a nazi, or said the USA was becoming like India, or that the USA was a totalitarian dictatorship then I would be making a hyperbolic statement.

Lastly, Obama is ridiculous, so your point is void. The guy has had a non-stop media circus around him since 2008 and we may as well have given Ariel Sharon's comatose body the Nobel Peace Prize back then instead of Obama.

davwain

MilanPan!c wrote: »

Look at the Stats -- America Resembles a Broken Banana Republic





http://www.alternet.org/economy/america-rich-name-only-look-stats-we-resemble-broken-banana-state


What do we think?

What's happening to America seems, at least in the near-term, to be irreversible. And of course US politics is closer to broken than working... so no help from Washington.

Of course, one of the two parties is going through death spasms, and the other is paranoid about being seen as anything but slightly right of centre. So... Americans don't really have much hope for fixing the issues, except at the grassroots.

When I think of the term "government shutdown", the right-wing Republican nutcases in Congress in the US instantly come to mind. In my home country (Canada), a loss of a vote of confidence - by the governing party or coalition in the federal House of Commons, the Yukon legislative assembly or in any of the 10 provincial legislatures - means the governing party falls. The only time that public services grind to a halt in my country is when there are strikes affecting such services. If a government of a province or territory loses a vote of confidence, public sector workers still get paid, even if it means the passing, of a new budget, is delayed until after the election that normally results from that lost vote of confidence. It's too bad neither house of the US Congress has such a mechanism.

Jim2007

Foreign companies now see us as the world’s cheap labor force, and we have the non-unionized South to thank for that.

I nearly fell of the chair when I read this line in the OP's first post. Why? because that is exactly what my company decided to do last week!

ChicagoJoe

Well the first thing we could do and improve Middle East relations enormously would be to stop funding Israel. Since it was founded in 1948, Israel has become the largest single recipient of U.S foreign assistance — a total of $121 billion, almost all of which has been in the form of military assistance.

http://journalistsresource.org/studies/international/foreign-policy/u-s-foreign-aid-to-israel-2014-congressional-report

eire4

For me where the US most looks like a broken banana republic is in its political system which I feel is certainly not functional or operating in a way that serves the needs of the majority of Americans. The 2 party cartel of the Republican and Democratic Parties have a monopoly on power for the most part and use any means at all levels to make it as hard as possible for any other voices to be heard. The Citizens United and more recent McCutcheon supreme court cases have all but turned the US Congress into a bought and paid for entity owned by various corporations and wealthy individuals.


Poverty levels in the US have risen and according to the Economic Policy institute in 2010 stood at 17.3% much higher then most other developed nations. Child poverty rates are even higher at 23%. In many ways the US either is already or at least to a certain extent has become an Oligarchy.

InTheTrees

eire4 wrote: »

For me where the US most looks like a broken banana republic is in its political system which I feel is certainly not functional or operating in a way that serves the needs of the majority of Americans. The 2 party cartel of the Republican and Democratic Parties have a monopoly on power for the most part and use any means at all levels to make it as hard as possible for any other voices to be heard. The Citizens United and more recent McCutcheon supreme court cases have all but turned the US Congress into a bought and paid for entity owned by various corporations and wealthy individuals.

A presidents lasting legacy is in their appointments to the supreme court. Those people can effect society for decades.

And we're witnessing the results of the Bush family's appointments, and its as unpleasant as you would expect.

eire4

InTheTrees wrote: »

A presidents lasting legacy is in their appointments to the supreme court. Those people can effect society for decades.

And we're witnessing the results of the Bush family's appointments, and its as unpleasant as you would expect.

No question how right your post is about the supreme court. The Citizens United and McCutcheon decisions have significantly accelerated the turning of the US into an Oligarchy if it has not already reached that status. To say those 2 decisions have harmed the US and the lives of the majority of Americans would be a gross understatement.