Broken Cooker Issues from Power City

jdpl28

Hi, so 2 weeks from Christmas and my mothers cooker door fell off. The cooker is 7 months old, top of the range Electrlux model (700+ euro) from Power City.

After discussing it with Power City, they have refused to replace the cooker, refused to give a refund. The only option they are willing to entertain is to get an engineer out to fix it.

Engineer has been out and looked at the cooker. He said the cooker needs a new door - will take 5 days to get from the UK. From what we have seen it looks like the hinge is broken, not the door. So very likely when the door comes, it won't fix the issue. Another 5 days to get a new part..... (new part will only be ordered today - Monday 16th).

We have been down to power city 3 times, discussed the issue with head office, let them know that this is actually just before Christmas and there is no way we can be without a cooker for Christmas. They are not budging but have said 'they wouldn't let us be without a cooker for the Christmas' - and would give us a 'loan' of a cooker from Christmas eve. Obviously this is not workable for many reasons - need to get an electrician out, where to put the old cooker, no cooker up until Christmas day.

SO..... What rights do we have? is this treatment acceptable in anybody's books?? Do we have the law on our side? Should we start looking into taking them to the small claims court?

Obviously the biggest issue here is if we continue down most paths apart from going to another electrical retailer - we won't have a cooker for Christmas.

Opinions much appreciated.

Thanks and regards,
Justin

jdpl28

Title should of course be "Power City - the grinch that stole Christmas dinner"

username123

Dont expect to get any satisfaction from Power City without going down to the store and causing a massive scene and letting all the other customers know how they are treating you. I havent spent a cent in there since I was disgracefully treated over a 4 month old faulty television. Never again.

Tell them you need the loaner cooker sorted out THIS WEEK. What are you supposed to be cooking on while waiting for their engineer to order a door?

P. Breathnach

Your mother's rights as a consumer are to have one of repair, replacement, or refund of money. In effect, while there might be some scope for negotiation, the choice lies with the seller which remedy to apply. So Power City are within their rights to offer to have the cooker repaired.

Should the repair fail, she can refuse a second effort at repair and demand either a replacement or refund of her money.

It seems a bit much that you are judging in advance that the repair will fail.

jdpl28

Sorry - maybe I was not so clear in the OP. The main issues are:
+ This is right before Christmas. We need a cooker for Christmas
+ Its going to take at least 5 days to get this fixed - due to time to get new part.
+ If there are any delays anywhere - whether its due to the new part not fixing the issue, delays in shipping the new part, etc - we will be without a cooker for Christmas. There really is zero room for error here.
+ Regardless we will be without a cooker for the Christmas run up. She has had to travel to my brothers apartment to bake her Christmas cakes.
+ Power City are being completely inflexible - they are flatly refusing to see this from our point of view & sticking to the company line "that is not how we operate... We repair, not replace cookers". No empathy with the customer in my opinion = bad customer service.

Appreciate taking the devils advocate here - but I think due to the circumstances, there needs to be more flexibility from Power City. This would be a bad situation at any time of year. At Christmas its really 10 times worse. My mother is extremely upset by the whole situation and we're very close to going to another retailer to purchase a completely new cooker.

P. Breathnach

You were clear in your OP.

witnessmenow

Its a crappy time of the year to happen, hope this gets sorted for you.

In fairness wouldn't the engineer be in a better position to judge how to fix it than you? If he's been out and says the new door would fix , it probably will? Maybe the hinge is part of the door?

You are assuming the repair they are offering isn't good enough, but from a consumer rights stand point they are within their rights to offer it. If it takes 5 days, if its ordered today it should be here in time for Christmas?

The small claims court will 100% not help you. You are disregarding the fix the engineer suggested is going to work before it happens. Maybe the door will come and everything will be sorted. The SCC will only help if the company are meeting your consumer rights (refusing to do anything or taking an unreasonable amount of time to do anything). The 5 day wait is unfortunate, but I don't think it could be described as unreasonable.

Bepolite

Poster above is giving you excellent advice OP, I'd follow it until the last moment.

S.I. No. 11/2003 - European Communities (Certain Aspects of the Sale of Consumer Goods and Associated Guarantees) Regulations 2003

The above regs introduce the inconvenience standard in to consumer contracts. If the OP isn't a text book case of inconvenience in relation to the remedy of faulty goods I don't know what is!

I's give Powercity until the 23rd, if they haven't sorted it by then I'd buy a new cooker (have a sparky on stand by) and sue Powercity in the New Year through the Small Claims Court for a refund (there will be a small deduction for 7 months use).

WARNING: If you lose through the small claims procedure you will be stuck with two cookers.

Other than going over to a relatives house for dinner I don't really see an alternative though.

jdpl28

Thank you so much everyone for the feedback.

Just got word in the last hour that Electrolux didn't have the spare part in stock. It would have been 10+ days before we got it fixed. Electrolux then went on to approve a total refund, so we're going to Curries to buy a new cooker

So it was Electrolux who ended up solving the issue - not Power City who dragged their feet the entire time, refusing to listen & parroting the same 'we don't operate like that' refrain, making the whole situation so unpleasant.

Bepolite

jdpl28 wrote: »

Thank you so much everyone for the feedback.

Just got word in the last hour that Electrolux didn't have the spare part in stock. It would have been 10+ days before we got it fixed. Electrolux then went on to approve a total refund, so we're going to Curries to buy a new cooker

So it was Electrolux who ended up solving the issue - not Power City who dragged their feet the entire time, refusing to listen & parroting the same 'we don't operate like that' refrain, making the whole situation so unpleasant.

I don't agree to be honest. Powercity promised you you wouldn't be without a cooker and you weren't. They probably knew the situation with Electrolux. What you've got a problem here with is the way they put it across.

Why on earth, with the leverage you now have wouldn't you go back to Powercity (the one you've been dealing with) and negotiate yourself a great deal?

Curry's - you have to be having a laugh if you think DSG are going to be any better than Powercity.

D3PO

jdpl28 wrote: »

Thank you so much everyone for the feedback.

Just got word in the last hour that Electrolux didn't have the spare part in stock. It would have been 10+ days before we got it fixed. Electrolux then went on to approve a total refund, so we're going to Curries to buy a new cooker

So it was Electrolux who ended up solving the issue - not Power City who dragged their feet the entire time, refusing to listen & parroting the same 'we don't operate like that' refrain, making the whole situation so unpleasant.

You really need to understand consumer law and what your entitled to. You whole issue is based on your lack of knowledge. Power City were perfectly reasonable in how they dealt with your issue and to be honest I see nothing in how they dealt with this that's even remotely bad customer service.

If you expect Curries or any other retailer to deal with the same situation differently your sorely mistaken.

whippet

jdpl28 wrote: »

So it was Electrolux who ended up solving the issue - not Power City who dragged their feet the entire time, refusing to listen & parroting the same 'we don't operate like that' refrain, making the whole situation so unpleasant.

You are insistent on dragging power city through the mud here undeservedly.

Lets say that Power City make about 10-15% margin on the cooker; that is about €100. If they were to refund you out of their own pocket and take back a 7 month old cooker they would loose money on their dealings with you.

All they had to do was offer a repair, in a reasonable time frame. That is what they did offer, a 5 days turnaround. You were not happy at that stage and insistent that Power City were not playing ball -- even though they seemed to go above and beyond and offer a loan unit for the xmas period !!!

When Power City went to actually source the part and Electrolux couldn't deliver the part within a reasonable timeframe i'd imagine Power City and Electrolux came to an agreement to offer a refund.

To me it seems that Power City were quite a decent company to deal with and now you are going to go off somewhere else with the refund.

It is more a case of a consumer not knowing their rights and taking it out on the retailer ......

jdpl28

Maybe it was a case of us not knowing the full letter of the law.

However - the way we were talked to by Power City, the fact that they basically didn't want to entertain our complaints - trying to fob us off, not appreciating the time of year. That is what leaves a very bad taste in the mouth. Particularly when we spent so much on the item to begin with.

Regards Curries - i agree - likely they would not be any better... however its very unlikely we'll be going back to Power City at this stage considering the way we were dealt with.

D3PO

The time of the year has no bearing on the issue. It does for you but consumer law doesn't change because its nearly Christmas. Your expectations are and were completely unrealistic.

What exactly are you unhappy with ?

The fact they wouldn't refund you ? - Why they don't have to and they would be out of pocket for such a gesture without agreeing to the same with the manufacturer.

The fact they wouldn't replace the unit for you immediately - Why they don't have to and would be out of pocket for such a gesture without agreeing to the same with the manufacturer.

The fact it would take 5 days to get a part ? - Which they have no control over ...

The fact they committed to giving you a loaner to ensure you have a cooker for Christmas (despite the fact they didn't have to offer this gesture)

what exactly are you annoyed with ....

You should actually be opening a thread about the good customer service you got not the other way around.

whippet

jdpl28 wrote: »

Maybe it was a case of us not knowing the full letter of the law.

no maybe about it

jdpl28 wrote: »

However - the way we were talked to by Power City, the fact that they basically didn't want to entertain our complaints - trying to fob us off, not appreciating the time of year. That is what leaves a very bad taste in the mouth. Particularly when we spent so much on the item to begin with.

Their attitude was probably a reaction to your own approach to the issue. From what info you have provided us they seemed to be quite reasonable in how they dealt with the issue.

jdpl28 wrote: »

Regards Curries - i agree - likely they would not be any better... however its very unlikely we'll be going back to Power City at this stage considering the way we were dealt with.

personally; If I were in your shoes I would be spending the refund in Power City as I would have confidence in them dealing with a faulty product in a correct manor.

WildCardDoW

the way we were talked to by Power City, the fact that they basically didn't want to entertain our complaints

Why should they, a repair was reasonable as they offered a reasonable time frame (it was going to be fixed before Christmas). They (assuming you didn't) obviously talked to Electrolux about the time frame and both agreed a refund (for both you and PowerCity) is reasonable once it was clear the part wouldn't be available in time.

I don't think a time frame (it's Christmas, it's my birthday, it's my child's birthday) argument is right here, if it was February and they sent out a repair technician and you were informed a five day repair time frame was offered it's reasonable, but because it's Christmas they have to act differently?

The only "mistake" they made was probably not offering the loan cooker earlier on in the process and facilitating an earlier install for you.

Also, "I've spent this much here, this cost this much" isn't going to count much for a retailer that deals in items that are generally always at that price!

+ Power City are being completely inflexible - they are flatly refusing to see this from our point of view & sticking to the company line "that is not how we operate... We repair, not replace cookers". No empathy with the customer in my opinion = bad customer service.

Will be what any retailer will tell you. It's not cost effective / reasonable to replace items like these unless the failure is catastrophic!

It's good that your problem is sorted, but don't offer all the credit to Electrolux, PowerCity had some say in how this was dealt with!

foggy_lad

Bepolite wrote: »

I's give Powercity until the 23rd, if they haven't sorted it by then I'd buy a new cooker (have a sparky on stand by) and sue Powercity in the New Year through the Small Claims Court for a refund (there will be a small deduction for 7 months use).

Surely that should read There may be a small reduction.....?

jdpl28

Obviously no point in continuing the conversation here....

Like I said - maybe was a case didn't know the 'letter of the law'. No need to rub in our ignorance. its not polite.

In previous experiences - when there was something wrong with an item (broken kettle for instance) it was replaced. Why was this different?

The cooker door just *fell off* - as it was being opened. Do you really think there would be any confidence in the build quality when a door actually falls off.

They did not take our concerns seriously (build quality/time of year), and we very nearly were left without a cooker for the Christmas. A 'loan' of a cooker on Christmas eve is lets face it not an option as outlined before (storage of old cooker, getting sparkie out on christmas eve) - so please don't bring it up again.

So lets just leave it at that - we'll agree to disagree with how we were dealt with. End of story thank you.

WildCardDoW

In previous experiences - when there was something wrong with an item (broken kettle for instance) it was replaced. Why was this different?

You're comparing a €700 item to one that can cost anything from €20 upwards? There's reasonable reasons for repairing large items: it's cost effective. Whereas repairing a €50 kettle as a once off is not.

The cooker door just *fell off* - as it was being opened. Do you really think there would be any confidence in the build quality when a door actually falls off.

And yet your praising Electrolux for their actions?

They did not take our concerns seriously (build quality/time of year), and we very nearly were left without a cooker for the Christmas. A 'loan' of a cooker on Christmas eve is lets face it not an option as outlined before (storage of old cooker, getting sparkie out on christmas eve) - so please don't bring it up again.

Again the time of year isn't a reasonable argument when they are offering the repair within a reasonable time frame! The build quality is a reasonable argument but since this same model will be carried by numerous retailers isn't one that they are responsible for, they're damned if they do carry it and damned if they don't!

If you're worried it would break again then that would depend on the component that broke, a door can break because of one small piece failing, but overall the item can be of high quality, like many other products.

So lets just leave it at that - we'll agree to disagree with how we were dealt with. End of story thank you

You don't get the last word, not at Consumer Issues! :P

D3PO

jdpl28 wrote: »

Obviously no point in continuing the conversation here....

Like I said - maybe was a case didn't know the 'letter of the law'. No need to rub in our ignorance. its not polite.
.

Nobody is rubbing in your ignorance. Its you failing to accept that actually Power City did a good job in this instance is making people repeat the point to you.

If you actually came back on and acknowledged it was an error your end not knowing what you was entitled to that would be the end of it but you continue to try insinuate Power City did a bad customer handling job here when frankly they didn't.

username123

D3PO wrote: »

.....but you continue to try insinuate Power City did a bad customer handling job here when frankly they didn't.

When the retailer leaves the customer stressed out and worried that they might not have a cooker for xmas, then thats not good customer handling skills. The customer should have been dealt with in a manner that left them believing it would all be taken care of and in a timely manner.

Having dealt with Power City over a faulty item, I can safely say - they dont inspire confidence. Their floor managers are rude, unhelpful and have little or no authority - its all "Ill have to ask Head Office". If the person who sold you the item is not authorised to make a decision regarding the return/repair/replacement of that item - it gives the impression you are getting the run around.

dudara

OP - I'm really glad that this issue has been resolved for you, and in a manner that will relieve the stress that is common at Christmas time.

I do think Power City did follow the right process here, but by the sound of it, maybe they could done it a little better.

jdpl28

Thank you "username123"!!! you have had a similar experience.

Regarding customer reps - *surely* they are supposed to be experienced in dealing with disgruntled customers?!?!?! Is that not part of the job description? and able to deal with them professionally?? Power City in this case did not deal with it professionally!

Nobody is rubbing in your ignorance. Its you failing to accept that actually Power City did a good job in this instance is making people repeat the point to you.

One of the main reasons i posted this question was to find out *exactly* what our options were - please re-read OP.

And yet your praising Electrolux for their actions?

I'm praising Electrolux for owning up to their responsibility - not their build quality. I fully accept that bad merchandise can get sold to the consumer. However the supplier/manufacturer *must* own up and accept responsibility for it.

You're comparing a €700 item to one that can cost anything from €20 upwards? There's reasonable reasons for repairing large items: it's cost effective. Whereas repairing a €50 kettle as a once off is not.

Agree fair point - but still its small change to a company like Power City. They're not dealing on a case-by-case basis, they have hard and fast rules (don't replace if is a cooker or if item costs more than X amount) - which in my opinion is not good customer service.

You don't get the last word, not at Consumer Issues!

So I'm learning... :O

username123

jdpl28 wrote: »

Thank you "username123"!!! you have had a similar experience.

I had a faulty tv that they insisted on repairing. Took 2 weeks for someone to collect tv, 2 weeks later there no word on repair, 2 weeks later were told it would take 2 more weeks for part, 2 weeks later were told part hadnt arrived. So in total I was 8 weeks without a tv - and Id paid over 600 quid for the tv only 4 months previously.

The entire way throughout the staff in Power City were totally unhelpful, never phoned back when they said they would, behaved as if I was getting in their way when I called in about it etc...

Eventually after I caused a huge scene on the shop floor and promised Id be onto Small Claims Court the next day I got a call back the next day offering a replacement.

So yes, I got a replacement. Technically they did what they were supposed to do. But I spent 8 weeks without a tv, was treated rudely and left stressed out, and had to cause a huge scene to get any resolve.

That was a good number of years ago now and I havent spent a cent in Power City since. And never will again.

D3PO

username123 wrote: »

When the retailer leaves the customer stressed out and worried that they might not have a cooker for xmas, then thats not good customer handling skills.

Somebody getting stressed out because they don't know what their entitlement are cant be sorted by the retailer. What is the retailer supposed to do just take a hit and refund the customer because thats what they think they are entitled to ?

The customer should have been dealt with in a manner that left them believing it would all be taken care of and in a timely manner.

Telling somebody that an engineer will be able to replace the ordered parts in about 5 days does precisely that. If somebody has an skewed perception on whats timely nobody can change that.

Having dealt with Power City over a faulty item, I can safely say - they dont inspire confidence. Their floor managers are rude, unhelpful and have little or no authority - its all "Ill have to ask Head Office". If the person who sold you the item is not authorised to make a decision regarding the return/repair/replacement of that item - it gives the impression you are getting the run around.

Im not saying they are a gleaming example of excellent customer service but equally they can only manage a case to the best of their ability. The OP needed their perception adjusted here. If somebody doesn't know their entitlements and puts it down to bad customer service by the shop theres no chance for them to ever satisfy the customer despite doing everything they can to help them.

D3PO

username123 wrote: »

I had a faulty tv that they insisted on repairing. Took 2 weeks for someone to collect tv, 2 weeks later there no word on repair, 2 weeks later were told it would take 2 more weeks for part, 2 weeks later were told part hadnt arrived. So in total I was 8 weeks without a tv - and Id paid over 600 quid for the tv only 4 months previously.

The entire way throughout the staff in Power City were totally unhelpful, never phoned back when they said they would, behaved as if I was getting in their way when I called in about it etc...

Eventually after I caused a huge scene on the shop floor and promised Id be onto Small Claims Court the next day I got a call back the next day offering a replacement.

So yes, I got a replacement. Technically they did what they were supposed to do. But I spent 8 weeks without a tv, was treated rudely and left stressed out, and had to cause a huge scene to get any resolve.

That was a good number of years ago now and I havent spent a cent in Power City since. And never will again.

In fairness they cant be expected to hold parts for everything they stock, The parts and repair are done by the manufacturer not Power City themselves. If theres a delay in that they cant do much about it.

Again this is another scenario whereby blame is being completely and utter apportioned to the wrong company. Rather than blame Power City you should be blaming Toshiba, Samsung, LG or whoever for the problem not the retailer.

whippet

as the saying goes ... 'The customer is alway right; except when they are wrong'

foggy_lad

D3PO wrote: »

In fairness they cant be expected to hold parts for everything they stock, The parts and repair are done by the manufacturer not Power City themselves. If theres a delay in that they cant do much about it.

Again this is another scenario whereby blame is being completely and utter apportioned to the wrong company. Rather than blame Power City you should be blaming Toshiba, Samsung, LG or whoever for the problem not the retailer.

The retailer must provide a remedy, The customer deals with the retailer and should not be party to any dealings the retailer has with the manufacturer over parts or repairs. The repairs must be carried out in a reasonable time. to me and most likely to a small claims court it would be entirely reasonable to have a working cooker for Christmas!

knucklehead6

D3PO wrote: »

In fairness they cant be expected to hold parts for everything they stock, The parts and repair are done by the manufacturer not Power City themselves. If theres a delay in that they cant do much about it.

Again this is another scenario whereby blame is being completely and utter apportioned to the wrong company. Rather than blame Power City you should be blaming Toshiba, Samsung, LG or whoever for the problem not the retailer.

The problem is that Joe Public doesn't care about LG or Toshiba or whoever, as far as he is concerned his contract is with the retailer and it is up to them (the retailer) to get it sorted.

In areas where JP is unaware of the 3 R's anything other than the retailers CEO grovelling for forgiveness while personally installing a new unit is going to be seen as unacceptable...

username123

D3PO wrote: »

In fairness they cant be expected to hold parts for everything they stock, The parts and repair are done by the manufacturer not Power City themselves. If theres a delay in that they cant do much about it.

Again this is another scenario whereby blame is being completely and utter apportioned to the wrong company. Rather than blame Power City you should be blaming Toshiba, Samsung, LG or whoever for the problem not the retailer.

I didnt expect them to hold parts. I expected the retailer, with whom I had the contract, not leave me without an appliance for 8 weeks. An appliance that i had paid good money for only 4 months previously. Their repair arrangements are none of my concern. (incidentally, they sent it to a repair centre approved by the manufacturer - who didnt hold the parts for the items they were supposed to be able to repair).

Not only that, I expected to be treated with courtesy instead of being treated like I was an inconvenience.

You are entitled to be a Power City fanboy (or fangirl) but after personal experience, Id never give them a cent of business again.

dudara

WildCardDoW wrote: »

You don't get the last word, not at Consumer Issues!

This is not an appropriate attitude to have in this forum. This forum is here to offer advice and assistance to people who request it. It is not here to "get the last word".

dudara

D3PO

foggy_lad wrote: »

The retailer must provide a remedy, The customer deals with the retailer and should not be party to any dealings the retailer has with the manufacturer over parts or repairs. The repairs must be carried out in a reasonable time. to me and most likely to a small claims court it would be entirely reasonable to have a working cooker for Christmas!

True its the retailers job to remedy the situation and true you don't need to be party to their dealings with the manufacturer that doesn't mean however that you should ignore that that relationship exists.

Its completely unrealistic to expect any retailer to be in a position to repair everything they sell, they are weather we like it or not beholden to the manufacturer to a certain degree which means at times repairs will take longer than they like aswell as the consumer !

The OP had a problem with a 5 day turn around on a repair to me that's entirely reasonable a timeframe. As for Christmas that is completely irrelevant Im not sure why you like the OP feel the need to mention it that has no bearing on a reasonable timeframe whatsoever.

We would all love to be able to get something repaired or replaced immediately on return but that's a very expensive prospect and something that ultimately if it existed would be the consumer who pays for it.

foggy_lad

D3PO wrote: »

True its the retailers job to remedy the situation and true you don't need to be party to their dealings with the manufacturer that doesn't mean however that you should ignore that that relationship exists.

Its completely unrealistic to expect any retailer to be in a position to repair everything they sell, they are weather we like it or not beholden to the manufacturer to a certain degree which means at times repairs will take longer than they like aswell as the consumer !

The OP had a problem with a 5 day turn around on a repair to me that's entirely reasonable a timeframe. As for Christmas that is completely irrelevant Im not sure why you like the OP feel the need to mention it that has no bearing on a reasonable timeframe whatsoever.

We would all love to be able to get something repaired or replaced immediately on return but that's a very expensive prospect and something that ultimately if it existed would be the consumer who pays for it.

Why should the customer not ignore any relationship the retailer has with the manufacturer/repair company? The retailer can get an ape in dublin zoo to do the repair for all I would care as long as the ape is qualified to do the repair, who or how they get the item repaired is nothing to do with the customer, the time-frame is however a lot to do with the customer especially when anecdotal evidence suggests that these repairs start at a reasonable few days then stretch to several weeks and often several months.

D3PO

foggy_lad wrote: »

Why should the customer not ignore any relationship the retailer has with the manufacturer/repair company? The retailer can get an ape in dublin zoo to do the repair for all I would care as long as the ape is qualified to do the repair, who or how they get the item repaired is nothing to do with the customer, the time-frame is however a lot to do with the customer especially when anecdotal evidence suggests that these repairs start at a reasonable few days then stretch to several weeks and often several months.

so 5 days for a cooker repair is unreasonable ? Were not talking about several weeks or months and of course if your talking about that it changes the whole situation but that's not what this thread relates to.

Th3B1tcH

Just 1 thing say on this if ur looking for better customer care stay well away from Currys/PC WORLD etc the whole DSG group
I had 2 what I can only call nightmares with them they even try charge on 1 item they wanted send away to test after I pointed out my connact was with them not manufacturer (actully had print out and bring tat part from consumer affairs site )thank god for small claims court

dudara

If you want to discuss a decision with a moderator, take it to PM or an alternative method. Do not clog up the thread with argument.

dudara

witnessmenow

Glad it got sorted OP.

Save some turkey for me