VRT exemption

KevinK

My sister has moved home from the UK and we want to register her car in Ireland.

We would leave the car in her name but I would drive the car at least 40% of the time. Is ok under the VRT exemption rules?

galwaytt

KevinK wrote: »

My sister has moved home from the UK and we want to register her car in Ireland.

We would leave the car in her name but I would drive the car at least 40% of the time. Is ok under the VRT exemption rules?

Once it's Irish registered , taxed and you insured on it, then you can drive it.

PanhardPL

KevinK wrote: »

My sister has moved home from the UK and we want to register her car in Ireland.

We would leave the car in her name but I would drive the car at least 40% of the time. Is ok under the VRT exemption rules?

If the car is brought here under TOR, she is the only person who can drive the car for the next 12 months. Look up the Revenue website which will have all the information re importing under TOR.

KevinK

PanhardPL wrote: »

If the car is brought here under TOR, she is the only person who can drive the car for the next 12 months. Look up the Revenue website which will have all the information re importing under TOR.

Thanks, that's what I was told but cannot find it anywhere on the revenue website, or at least not as clearly as that

it does say that the car cannot be "disposed of, hired out, lent or given as security"

The lent part could be interpreted as no one else can drive the car, but you would think that if this is the rule it would be stated explicitly somewhere.

galwaytt

PanhardPL wrote: »

If the car is brought here under TOR, she is the only person who can drive the car for the next 12 months. Look up the Revenue website which will have all the information re importing under TOR.

Don't think so: the only restriction I see on the revenue.ie is on the selling, disposing, hire or loan of the car. There is no restriction I can see on who uses it lawfully - I mean think about it, how could there be ? If a person comes home on a TOR, you can't tell them their spouse can't drive it.

From here: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/tax-relief-transfer-residence.html

"You may not sell, dispose of, hire out or lend the vehicle during the 12 months following the date of registration. If you do, the VRT (Customs Duty and VAT if appropriate) must be paid in full. "

challengemaster

galwaytt wrote: »

"You may not sell, dispose of, hire out or lend the vehicle during the 12 months following the date of registration. If you do, the VRT (Customs Duty and VAT if appropriate) must be paid in full. "

Hmm... however ridiculous it seems, that would put doubt in my mind

corktina

I believe that means lend in totality, not lend for 40% of the time. It would still be your sister's and in her possession, so I should go ahead.

I brought in a car under TOR a few years back and only thing that was pointed out to me was that you can't sell it for 12 months (unless you pay the VRT).

Even if no one else was supposed to drive it there is no way of enforcing it. Irish reg car, taxed and insured it not going to have a backround search done into it at a checkpoint. My car was driven by numerous different people, a person even learned to drive in it all inside the 12 months.

galwaytt

challengemaster wrote: »

Hmm... however ridiculous it seems, that would put doubt in my mind

The fact that it's even slightly ambiguous would lend (sic ) me to go with driving it OP.

Letting someone drive the car may not constitute the lend of it. I mean if OP's sister is with him that's not a lend per se. ..

DuckSlice

Make sure you have your paperwork in order because the will scrutinise it severely. Fuel receipts, insurance Certs, household bills, payslips whatever u have. Car has to be in her name six months before transfer of residency and you have to prove it's been in the UK for those six months. There is a limit how long u can have it in Ireland and after that you won't be able to get the exemption I think it's 30 days, so as soon as you move country. As they say on the website you have to prove everything to them so didn't give them any reason to doubt u!

etxp

Before I start, it's 5 years since I did it so things may have changed from my experience.

etxp wrote: »

Make sure you have your paperwork in order because the will scrutinise it severely. Fuel receipts, insurance Certs, household bills, payslips whatever u have. Car has to be in her name six months before transfer of residency and you have to prove it's been in the UK for those six months.

I actually found it fairly straight forward, to be honest I even sent in my mother to register it as it was handy so I wasn't even there myself. She produced my payslips, the registration cert (V5) and an insurance cert and possibility some bank statements but no utility bills, house hold bills or fuel receipts as I didn't have any when I lived in the UK (house hold bills I mean and I didn't keep fuel receipts). I also had proof of being on the register of electors but don't think they were interested in it.

There main interest was in the proof of 6 months use there so the insurance cert was a big thing for them, not sure how much interest they even had in the pay slips as I wasn't there but it all was done very quickly and very easily. I also think I had to prove I had permanently moved back, i.e. show I had a job, started a course etc but I'm not sure on that one.

etxp wrote: »

There is a limit how long u can have it in Ireland and after that you won't be able to get the exemption I think it's 30 days, so as soon as you move country. As they say on the website you have to prove everything to them so didn't give them any reason to doubt u!

Again as it was 5 years ago things may have changed but I drove it here for 6 months on the UK plates after moving back before going near the VRT office and had no issue availing of the exemption.

Gene Hunt

My sister moved into Donegal from the North just last week and brought her car with her and said it was a total nightmare with an awful lot of paperwork need even though she has lived in the north for years and still works in the North, she had to provide a letter from her previous landlord and a her current landlord in the South.
Yes they also told her no one else is allowed to 'use' or 'drive' her car during the next 12 months other than someone working on it's upkeep ,she stated her sister often used her car they replied that's not allowed at all, so to answer the op's question: No you won't be allowed to drive the car even if you were insured , only person who owns the car and is the registered owner may drive the car.
However my own question is this.....how could they police it?....follow the car hoping they catch someone else driving it?
Surely if someone else was driving it and was stopped at a gardai checkpoint and was named on the insurance how would the gardai know that aren't officially allowed to drive the car?

DuckSlice

Amara Victorious Sailor wrote: »

Before I start, it's 5 years since I did it so things may have changed from my experience.



I actually found it fairly straight forward, to be honest I even sent in my mother to register it as it was handy so I wasn't even there myself. She produced my payslips, the registration cert (V5) and an insurance cert and possibility some bank statements but no utility bills, house hold bills or fuel receipts as I didn't have any when I lived in the UK (house hold bills I mean and I didn't keep fuel receipts). I also had proof of being on the register of electors but don't think they were interested in it.

There main interest was in the proof of 6 months use there so the insurance cert was a big thing for them, not sure how much interest they even had in the pay slips as I wasn't there but it all was done very quickly and very easily. I also think I had to prove I had permanently moved back, i.e. show I had a job, started a course etc but I'm not sure on that one.



Again as it was 5 years ago things may have changed but I drove it here for 6 months on the UK plates after moving back before going near the VRT office and had no issue availing of the exemption.

It's all changed now since NCTS took over. It's not as simple as just going into the tax office. You have to apply for your exemption from revenue and then produce this exemption at the nct centre. It was a lot more slack 5 years ago but there is so many UK cars in Ireland they have tightened up on it.

Once the car comes in you have 30 days in which to make your claim. Your just lucky they didn't pull u up on it. Although it may have been different 5 years ago. I'm fairly up on this as I tried to get mine done for free but wasn't eligible for various reasons.

You have to own the car for 6 months prior to your transfer, then you have 12 months to bring the car in, once it's in the country you have 30 days to change it over.

I'm sure someone will pull me up on something I have said, but as far as I know what I write here is correct.

corktina

Gene Hunt wrote: »

My sister moved into Donegal from the North just last week and brought her car with her and said it was a total nightmare with an awful lot of paperwork need even though she has lived in the north for years and still works in the North, she had to provide a letter from her previous landlord and a her current landlord in the South.
Yes they also told her no one else is allowed to 'use' or 'drive' her car during the next 12 months other than someone working on it's upkeep ,she stated her sister often used her car they replied that's not allowed at all, so to answer the op's question: No you won't be allowed to drive the car even if you were insured , only person who owns the car and is the registered owner may drive the car.
However my own question is this.....how could they police it?....follow the car hoping they catch someone else driving it?
Surely if someone else was driving it and was stopped at a gardai checkpoint and was named on the insurance how would the gardai know that aren't officially allowed to drive the car?

I'm sure that it must be someone's interpretation that no one but the importer may DRIVE it. Did she get that in writing at all? It's quite a shift in the law if it is official

etxp

etxp wrote: »

It's all changed now since NCTS took over. It's not as simple as just going into the tax office. You have to apply for your exemption from revenue and then produce this exemption at the nct centre. It was a lot more slack 5 years ago but there is so many UK cars in Ireland they have tightened up on it.

Once the car comes in you have 30 days in which to make your claim. Your just lucky they didn't pull u up on it. Although it may have been different 5 years ago. I'm fairly up on this as I tried to get mine done for free but wasn't eligible for various reasons.

You have to own the car for 6 months prior to your transfer, then you have 12 months to bring the car in, once it's in the country you have 30 days to change it over.

I'm sure someone will pull me up on something I have said, but as far as I know what I write here is correct.

Yeah I know its changed a bit with the ncts taking over but not sure how tricky they have made it.

When I brought it in it made no difference how long it was in the country, I don't even know if it was asked as I wasn't there. I had the ferry ticket in with the details which is the only way they would have known how long it was in but as I said I don't know of they even looked at that.

My interpenetration was that (at the time anyway) you have 6 months driving it before you have to decide if you want to become a resident in the country or not before you have to register the car, so I drove it for the 6 months as I saved a few 100 euro in motor tax (car was SORN'd in the UK).

I'm pretty sure proving you were actually becoming permanently resident here is more important than people think when availing of the exemption.

Gene Hunt

corktina wrote: »

I'm sure that it must be someone's interpretation that no one but the importer may DRIVE it. Did she get that in writing at all? It's quite a shift in the law if it is official

I don't know if that's in writing but I'll ask her, all I know is she had to make 3 trips to the revenue and NCT due to the revenue making mistakes and NCT refusing to register it.
It was in the revenue office she was told no one else was allowed to drive the car not NCT centre but i'll check her paperwork tonight if she still has it and come back to you.

Gene Hunt

Gene Hunt wrote: »

I don't know if that's in writing but I'll ask her, all I know is she had to make 3 trips to the revenue and NCT due to the revenue making mistakes and NCT refusing to register it.
It was in the revenue office she was told no one else was allowed to drive the car not NCT centre but i'll check her paperwork tonight if she still has it and come back to you.

Its impossible to enforce so I wouldn't worry about it.

DuckSlice

Amara Victorious Sailor wrote: »

I drove it for the 6 months as I saved a few 100 euro in motor tax (car was SORN'd in the UK).

So you drove around with a car that was declared off the road? I'm pretty sure your insurance would have been void. If you don't believe me which you seem not to, research it on vrt.ie. as I did when I tried to get an exemption on my car this year.

keithclancy

etxp wrote: »

So you drove around with a car that was declared off the road? I'm pretty sure your insurance would have been void. If you don't believe me which you seem not to, research it on vrt.ie. as I did when I tried to get an exemption on my car this year.

I don't think there is any legislation that covers an off the road declaration in a different state. More than likely the third party obligation for the insurer to pay out would supersede anything else.

What are you basing that opinion on ?

etxp

etxp wrote: »

So you drove around with a car that was declared off the road? I'm pretty sure your insurance would have been void.

How would it have been void? The vehicle is declared off the road to the DVLA for tax purposes. Nothing at all to do with insurance.

corktina

I think you'll find that UK Insurance companies insist the vehicle is "road legal" and it isn't if it isn't taxed

DuckSlice

To drive a foreign vehicle in this country it has to be legal in the company it's registered in. I would have thought that is obvious!

keithclancy

etxp wrote: »

To drive a foreign vehicle in this country it has to be legal in the company it's registered in. I would have thought that is obvious!

Not really.

I can drive a German registered car legally in Ireland without Winter Tyres in the Winter.

galwaytt

keithclancy wrote: »

Not really.

I can drive a German registered car legally in Ireland without Winter Tyres in the Winter.

Er, no.
An Irish resident cannot drive a foreign registered vehicle, period. Finance Act 1992 if memory serves me correctly....

Sheldons Brain

An Irish resident cannot drive a foreign registered vehicle, period. Finance Act 1992 if memory serves me correctly....

Who said the previous poster was an Irish resident?

corktina

I don't think he is Irish Resident iirc

grainnewhale

galwaytt wrote: »

Er, no.
An Irish resident cannot drive a foreign registered vehicle, period. Finance Act 1992 if memory serves me correctly....

If you owned a business in the north and it was a company car, this would be legal.

grainnewhale

in relation to the o.p . the car owner would be well within their rights to let anybody drive the car.

corktina

corktina wrote: »

I think you'll find that UK Insurance companies insist the vehicle is "road legal" and it isn't if it isn't taxed

I had Irish insurance for a fair bit of the time but regardless a lot of people interpret road legal as meaning safe to be on the road nothing to do with tax.

And even in that aspect, I did a lot of research into driving with no MOT as I didn't want to do the MOT a month before moving back and from everything I read even with out an MOT it's next to impossible for ins companies to void your insurance.

etxp wrote: »

To drive a foreign vehicle in this country it has to be legal in the company it's registered in. I would have thought that is obvious!

It was legal enough. Even at a checkpoint a guard asked about my out of date UK tax disc. I politely asked him what concern of his was UK tax and he begrudgingly agreed a let me on my way.

galwaytt wrote: »

Er, no.
An Irish resident cannot drive a foreign registered vehicle, period. Finance Act 1992 if memory serves me correctly....

I wasn't Irish resident as I had spend a year living outside Ireland at the time so I was fully entitled to drive the car for 6 months before registering it.

TireeTerror

I think its amazing that people in Ireland allow themselves to be dictated to for the most minor of things. How dare they tell us that we cannot use a foreign registered car. How utterly ridiculous.

Im from Scotland and have a UK car registered to my parents house in the UK. I could register it to Ireland and be exempt from the VRT, but I think the entire VRT thing is an absolute disgrace, a complete scam and I will never ever have it registered in this country. The plus side is that I dont get robbed blind when to motor vehicle tax because of the engine size.

I have been stopped a couple of times by random checkpoints and have never had any issue at all. So long as Im not committing any offence, I dont have to explain myself to anyone. I have just shown my UK licence and said Im working here temporarily and thats been the end of the matter. No other checks were carried out.

Sheldons Brain

It was legal enough. Even at a checkpoint a guard asked about my out of date UK tax disc. I politely asked him what concern of his was UK tax and he begrudgingly agreed a let me on my way.

This isn't true, but just a testament to the poor quality of policing.
The basic idea is that you are excluded from the need to pay Irish taxes because you have paid the UK tax.

corktina

TireeTerror wrote: »

I think its amazing that people in Ireland allow themselves to be dictated to for the most minor of things. How dare they tell us that we cannot use a foreign registered car. How utterly ridiculous.

Im from Scotland and have a UK car registered to my parents house in the UK. I could register it to Ireland and be exempt from the VRT, but I think the entire VRT thing is an absolute disgrace, a complete scam and I will never ever have it registered in this country. The plus side is that I dont get robbed blind when to motor vehicle tax because of the engine size.

I have been stopped a couple of times by random checkpoints and have never had any issue at all. So long as Im not committing any offence, I dont have to explain myself to anyone. I have just shown my UK licence and said Im working here temporarily and thats been the end of the matter. No other checks were carried out.

good luck with that in to the future. Customs are out there and theyn ake no prisoners.

TireeTerror

corktina wrote: »

good luck with that in to the future. Customs are out there and theyn ake no prisoners.

Im not trying to be smart, but what can they actually do? How would customs know anything about me or where I live? I am not in the habit of answering any questions other than what my name and address is, my UK address that is. They could enquire all day long about why Im in Ireland etc, but Im under no obligation to answer any of those questions, and I would have no problem telling them that.

We all have the right to remain silent. Even if stopped by the police in the street we do not have to provide our name or address, unless suspected of having committed an offence. There is an exception to that if youre driving a motor vehicle, as they require you name and address to verify you are legally entitled to drive. Aside from that, you dont need to answer anything, especially anything that may incriminate you.

Sheldons Brain

They could enquire all day long about why Im in Ireland etc, but Im under no obligation to answer any of those questions, and I would have no problem telling them that.

Of course you can. Then they seize the car.

grainnewhale

TireeTerror wrote: »

Im not trying to be smart, but what can they actually do? How would customs know anything about me or where I live? I am not in the habit of answering any questions other than what my name and address is, my UK address that is. They could enquire all day long about why Im in Ireland etc, but Im under no obligation to answer any of those questions, and I would have no problem telling them that.

We all have the right to remain silent. Even if stopped by the police in the street we do not have to provide our name or address, unless suspected of having committed an offence. There is an exception to that if youre driving a motor vehicle, as they require you name and address to verify you are legally entitled to drive. Aside from that, you dont need to answer anything, especially anything that may incriminate you.

well if you have any dealing with the revenue. ie, working and paying income tax. claiming mortage relief or social welfare. they would know in two minutes

corktina

corktina wrote: »

good luck with that in to the future. Customs are out there and theyn ake no prisoners.

If his family ties are all in the UK then even though he is living and working here he may not be considered resident and therefore may be fully entitled to drive his UK reg here.

TireeTerror

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

Of course you can. Then they seize the car.

On what grounds would they be seizing my car?

grainnewhale wrote: »

well if you have any dealing with the revenue. ie, working and paying income tax. claiming mortage relief or social welfare. they would know in two minutes

I rent here. I work for a UK company and I am paid into my UK account. I really have no official ties with Ireland, other than having taken the boat from Stranraer and driving down from Northern Ireland. I have never done anything official here ever, no PPS number or whatever its called, I dont suppose anyone other than my friends and work colleagues know I'm even living here. It is not some big secret, its just that I have never had to actually do anything official. Thats the beauty of free travel within the EU.

I could live in Scotland, or NI and still do my job, its just this way there is a bit less travel involved.

Its even been suggested that you could drive a foreign registered car in Ireland without displaying vehicle tax at all. I have tried to find out the truth about this, not to avoid paying it, as I drive my car in the UK all the time anyway, but purely out of curiosity as I like to know where I stand in the event that I did get stopped and was faced with someone in authority who didnt actually know what they were talking about. The police are often just as ill informed as the general public in many matters.

Sheldons Brain

I rent here. I work for a UK company and I am paid into my UK account. I really have no official ties with Ireland, other than having taken the boat from Stranraer and driving down from Northern Ireland.

If you tell them this then they probably won't seize your car, but you implied that you would not tell them anything.

Its even been suggested that you could drive a foreign registered car in Ireland without displaying vehicle tax at all.

This might work, if it wasn't from the UK.

One hopes your insurance company is aware of where the vehicle spends most of its time.

TireeTerror

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

If you tell them this then they probably won't seize your car, but you implied that you would not tell them anything.


This might work, if it wasn't from the UK.

One hopes your insurance company is aware of where the vehicle spends most of its time.

I wasn't implying I wouldn't tell them anything, I actually wouldn't tell them anything other than my name and my UK address. I was only explaining my situation here.

No police officer can seize anything without legal grounds to do so, not answering questions that I have no legal obligation to answer is not sufficient grounds. We are all entitled to go about our business without hindrance. If they were to illegally seize my vehicle, I could sue them for doing so.

grainnewhale

TireeTerror wrote: »

On what grounds would they be seizing my car?



I rent here. I work for a UK company and I am paid into my UK account. I really have no official ties with Ireland, other than having taken the boat from Stranraer and driving down from Northern Ireland. I have never done anything official here ever, no PPS number or whatever its called, I dont suppose anyone other than my friends and work colleagues know I'm even living here. It is not some big secret, its just that I have never had to actually do anything official. Thats the beauty of free travel within the EU.

I could live in Scotland, or NI and still do my job, its just this way there is a bit less travel involved.

Its even been suggested that you could drive a foreign registered car in Ireland without displaying vehicle tax at all. I have tried to find out the truth about this, not to avoid paying it, as I drive my car in the UK all the time anyway, but purely out of curiosity as I like to know where I stand in the event that I did get stopped and was faced with someone in authority who didnt actually know what they were talking about. The police are often just as ill informed as the general public in many matters.

on this basis its unlikely the customs would seize your car. if it was not taxed on the other hand the gardai would be able to seize it.

TireeTerror

I think my point is being missed entirely. In my situation they couldnt seize the car. However you are all basing that on the additional information I have provided. However I wouldnt tell them this information, I would just ask if I could go about my business and I would have only provided my name and UK address for them to ascertain if I was legal to drive the car.

In reality, there are thousands of UK registered cars on the road in Ireland, especially up in the northern counties. The second anyone stops a UK car and hears a UK accent and is shown a UK driving licence, the issue about VRT is never raised at all. If customs were present, they may ask questions about why I am here etc, but as I said, I wouldnt answer them as I know I do not have to, and I also know that Im not committing any offence by refusing to provide any info other than my name and address. Of course it would be a lot easier to just explain the situation, but this isnt about what is easier, its about our rights. Rights that are clearly being exploited with the highly questionable VRT process and cost. Im fairly sure there must be some European free market legalities which would come into play, but Im not a lawyer and as Im not ever going to pay VRT, its not really something I will need to research.

EDIT : Ive had a quick look around this forum, it appears that although VRT is not technically illegal, it is against the spirit of the EU directives. Chances are nothing much will change.

Sheldons Brain

No police officer can seize anything without legal grounds to do so,

Customs can seize your foreign car and let you prove that you were using it legally.

Richard

TireeTerror wrote: »

In reality, there are thousands of UK registered cars on the road in Ireland, especially up in the northern counties.

Yes, the vast majority of the latter are UK registered...

The issue with your insurance is that if you need to tell them the address you are resident in most of the time. If this is incorrect, your insurance may be invalid. That will probably only be a problem if you were involved in an accident or your car was stolen.

TireeTerror

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

Customs can seize your foreign car and let you prove that you were using it legally.

Do you have a source for this information?

Sheldons Brain

TireeTerror wrote: »

Do you have a source for this information?

from the Revenue manual
Obstruction offences arising in connection with Revenue powers to stop vehicles, enter/search, seek information, seize and detain vehicles. Failure to give name and address is also an obstruction offence.

see Finance Act, 1992
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1992/en/act/pub/0009/sec0139.html#sec139

TireeTerror

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

from the Revenue manual
Obstruction offences arising in connection with Revenue powers to stop vehicles, enter/search, seek information, seize and detain vehicles. Failure to give name and address is also an obstruction offence.

see Finance Act, 1992
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1992/en/act/pub/0009/sec0139.html#sec139

I have just downloaded the PDF and read it. You are misunderstanding what they have said.

I clearly stated that I'm aware that as a driver of a motor vehicle, I must provide my name and address. So that is dealt with. The issue you are pointing out here is the customs ability to "seek information". Obstructing them would be try and stop them searching the vehicle, or to not even stop your car at all. Not answering any questions, other than your name and address is not obstruction. There is NO legal obligation for you to answer any other question other than what your name and address is. Its very clear, these are your basic rights.

By providing them with your name and address, you are enabling them to "seek information" regarding your legal right to drive the car. You do not have to start explaining yourself and what you are about. Not at all ever. They cannot seize your car because you refuse to explain yourself to them, that is against the law and they would be taken to court.

It is vital that as citizens we understand these basic rights, because there are so many abuses of power taking place day after day, usually by people in authority who do not actually realise the finer points of law.

Police/Customs will ask all manner of questions at roadside checkpoints, such as "Where are you going? Why are you going there? Where have you come from? Where do you work? Are you going to work?" etc. All of this is fishing, they are hoping you will incriminate yourself in some way. You hear about incidents where Social Welfare officers will be standing beside the Police as you are being asked these questions, trying to catch out welfare fraud.

Just give your name and address and then after they have confirmed your right to drive, ask them if you are free to go about your business. Thats all there is to it.

Sheldons Brain

Just give your name and address and then after they have confirmed your right to drive, ask them if you are free to go about your business. Thats all there is to it.

You are in possession of a vehicle unregistered in the State, there is a bit more to confirming your tight to drive than just giving an address somewhere else. If you claim you live elsewhere you can be asked when you arrived, how long you plan to stay, do you come here often, and what are you using the vehicle for. If you answer these questions then you'll be fine, if you don't cooperate in a reasonable way then they will simply seize your vehicle.

I don't think you appreciate that the customs have much more power than the Gardai, you can't just play silly buggers with them.

TireeTerror

I do understand, but I have not seen any evidence that states I have to answer anything other than my name and address.

I constantly see people posting up information on Boards which is completely unsubstantiated, opinions offered as facts. That is why I asked what the source was, so I could verify it myself. Having looked at it, there is none.

The fact that you say it would be playing silly buggers just confirms exactly what has gone wrong in this country, as well as in the UK. People all too easily forgo their rights because they deem it easier to just comply with instructions and to answer questions. Anyone in authority MUST have grounds for seizing a vehicle, they cannot do it just because you only met the minimum legal obligations in response to them. They would have to state a reason as to why it was seized, otherwise they are interfering in your right to go about your business unhindered and in doing so are breaking the law themselves. It would be unacceptable to justify seizing a car because the driver decided that he was not willing to discuss matters which he has no legal obligation to answer.

In most cases people would just answer them to have an easier life, but that isnt the point of this debate, its about peoples interpretation of the powers of Customs officials. I have even read people saying they can enter your house if they choose to, when I looked into that it was very clear they cannot at all. They can enter a premises, but not a private dwelling.

Just because the vehicle is not registered in the state, doesnt mean the customs cannot verify my right to drive. The UK and ROI have been using a mutual recognition system for driving offences such as periods of disqualification for a while now. So if you are banned from driving in the UK, you are banned in the ROI and vice versa. So the customs officers just have to check if you hold a valid EU licence and off you go.

DuckSlice

TireeTerror wrote: »

I do understand, but I have not seen any evidence that states I have to answer anything other than my name and address.

I constantly see people posting up information on Boards which is completely unsubstantiated, opinions offered as facts. That is why I asked what the source was, so I could verify it myself. Having looked at it, there is none.

The fact that you say it would be playing silly buggers just confirms exactly what has gone wrong in this country, as well as in the UK. People all too easily forgo their rights because they deem it easier to just comply with instructions and to answer questions. Anyone in authority MUST have grounds for seizing a vehicle, they cannot do it just because you only met the minimum legal obligations in response to them. They would have to state a reason as to why it was seized, otherwise they are interfering in your right to go about your business unhindered and in doing so are breaking the law themselves. It would be unacceptable to justify seizing a car because the driver decided that he was not willing to discuss matters which he has no legal obligation to answer.

In most cases people would just answer them to have an easier life, but that isnt the point of this debate, its about peoples interpretation of the powers of Customs officials. I have even read people saying they can enter your house if they choose to, when I looked into that it was very clear they cannot at all. They can enter a premises, but not a private dwelling.

Just because the vehicle is not registered in the state, doesnt mean the customs cannot verify my right to drive. The UK and ROI have been using a mutual recognition system for driving offences such as periods of disqualification for a while now. So if you are banned from driving in the UK, you are banned in the ROI and vice versa. So the customs officers just have to check if you hold a valid EU licence and off you go.

Your right in what you say about don't tell them anything other than what is necessary.

As far as your car is concerned then there is a few criteria which you must meet in order to keep driving it here.

You can be a resident here, which is if you are in the country for more than 185 days in the year then you are a resident here however I'm not sure about the fact u work for a uk company or if you have personal ties so if your wife and kids are in uk then u will be classed as a uk resident.
Also you can't have the car here longer than 12 months. It doesn't say in what I read if that is 12 months in total or twelve months consecutively. I presume it is the latter. So if the car is here longer than the twelve months wether your a resident or not you are subject to vrt and if the customs stop you and suspect it is and you can't prove to them it hasn't been here twelve months then they can take the car off you.

However if you live in Northern Ireland when you are over here and travel to the republic for work, you can do this for as long as you please, as the car will be in the uk the majority of the time.

Marcusm

TireeTerror wrote: »

I do understand, but I have not seen any evidence that states I have to answer anything other than my name and address.

I constantly see people posting up information on Boards which is completely unsubstantiated, opinions offered as facts. That is why I asked what the source was, so I could verify it myself. Having looked at it, there is none.

The fact that you say it would be playing silly buggers just confirms exactly what has gone wrong in this country, as well as in the UK. People all too easily forgo their rights because they deem it easier to just comply with instructions and to answer questions. Anyone in authority MUST have grounds for seizing a vehicle, they cannot do it just because you only met the minimum legal obligations in response to them. They would have to state a reason as to why it was seized, otherwise they are interfering in your right to go about your business unhindered and in doing so are breaking the law themselves. It would be unacceptable to justify seizing a car because the driver decided that he was not willing to discuss matters which he has no legal obligation to answer.

In most cases people would just answer them to have an easier life, but that isnt the point of this debate, its about peoples interpretation of the powers of Customs officials. I have even read people saying they can enter your house if they choose to, when I looked into that it was very clear they cannot at all. They can enter a premises, but not a private dwelling.

Just because the vehicle is not registered in the state, doesnt mean the customs cannot verify my right to drive. The UK and ROI have been using a mutual recognition system for driving offences such as periods of disqualification for a while now. So if you are banned from driving in the UK, you are banned in the ROI and vice versa. So the customs officers just have to check if you hold a valid EU licence and off you go.

Section 139 (3) Finance Act 1992 made it an offence to be in psosession of an unregistered (ie not Irish registered) vehicle withn Ireland unless it benefited from a permanent or temporary exemption (permanent = transfer of residence, temporary = on visit within specified parameters). The penalty for such an offence (under the law of excise) is €5,000 (since March 2008, was previously smaller).

Reg 9(2) of SI 60/1993 which relates to the temporary importation relief sets out what you must do in terms of docs

(2) The documents relating to the ownership, registration or bringing into the State of a vehicle temporarily brought into the State under these Regulations shall be kept with the vehicle when it is in use in and shall be produced at the request of an officer of the Commissioners, duly authorised by them in that behalf and on production of his authorisation if so requested by any person affected.


Effectively you are required to carry proof of the date on which the car was brought into Ireland with you at all times and produce it on request. The maximum duration of "temporary relief" is 12 months.

You'll also find that Customs officers have broader powers than Gardai in dealing with revenue offences including the ability to enter property without a warrant and to demand answers to questions and the provision of information. The "General Excise" powers are not contained in the Road Traffic Acts and certain of them can be delegated to Gardai. The appeals from a decision of Customs go to the Appeals Commissions not the District Courts and as they are not "criminal" per se, the same rights against self incrimination do not apply, you can be required to answer questions and provide information beyond that which you might do in a criminal trial.

If you think Ireland is extreme in this regard, the powers given to the customs section of HMRC in the UK are very similar.

You may be in such a position that you travel over and back frequently and may not need to reregister. All that being said, I suspect your income tax position is more interesting than your VRT position.

keithclancy

Fock sake ... VRT Threads are getting as bad as foglight threads.