NCT fail due to VIN Number location

v240gltse

hi all

just had my 1990 Mercedes e230 ( pre facelift ) in for its NCT this morning and while passing everything it failed on "Vin number not visible or obstructed".

There is a vin number plate attached to the support across the radiator but the NCT tester says it must be stamped on the body ( usually in the engine bay ) and refuses to accept the Vin plat location as valid.

He says that i will need to contact the Revenue Services to begin some process or other ( very vague ) to ensure vehicle is legit even though it passed its previous NCT last December ( with previous owner ).

I have googled the VIN plate location and it appears that the Radiator slam panel is the location on pre-facelift models.

If anyone knows where else it may be located please can you let me know ?

thanks inadvance

Brendan

BMJD

I'd say a different tester wouldn't waste your time like that :pac:

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

What did you do to the tester, sh#g his wife?!

bmstuff

That is the ofticial location on the w124. No way around that. He should know that.

You might have a few stickers on the bonnet too, the trunk behind the reg plate and potentially on the firewall too. Check them out and simply go back for a visual.

Seweryn

The Tester asked for the location of the VIN number on the car's chassis, not the identification plate.

Go back to yer man and just show him the VIN number stamped on the car body.
Here is your answer:

v240gltse

hi seweryn

I saw that link but as far as I can determine that's for a face-lifted model, where they also included the VIN as a plate on the passenger side dash .

So sounds like a silly question but if i go back to the test center they want proof of locations validity so where can I go from here to get this info ?

keep those idea's coming

brendan

Mycroft H

v240gltse wrote: »

hi seweryn

I saw that link but as far as I can determine that's for a face-lifted model, where they also included the VIN as a plate on the passenger side dash .

So sounds like a silly question but if i go back to the test center they want proof of locations validity so where can I go from here to get this info ?

keep those idea's coming

brendan

Go to Mercedes and get documentation from them? Proof from them that's its been unmodified.

Seweryn

v240gltse wrote: »

hi seweryn

I saw that link but as far as I can determine that's for a face-lifted model, where they also included the VIN as a plate on the passenger side dash .

Brendan, the VIN number is stamped on the firewall in all W124 models, AFAIK. So just open the bonet and look carefully. You should be able to find it.

v240gltse wrote: »

So sounds like a silly question but if i go back to the test center they want proof of locations validity so where can I go from here to get this info ?

That is a bit mad, IMO. I would locate the number myself, go back to the NCT centre and show it to the man (pick a different Tester this time). You will be OK.

v240gltse

hi Seweryn

the only number that i can find is on the radiator slam panel the other indicated location on the strut tower is blank both on the passenger and drivers side ;-C

thanks

brendan

hi5

Try under the carpet at the front edge of the drivers seat, there should be a flap in the carpet.

Guy:Incognito

The slam panel has to be the worst location on a car to put a vin. Any sort of decent front end damage and itll be replaced. Id imagine it makes ringing them handy too.

Tigger

get the number stamped on somewhere
job oxo

Seweryn

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The slam panel has to be the worst location on a car to put a vin.

It is only the VIN Plate and it can be put back onto a new replacement front part.

Brendan, the number must be on the wall behind the engine somewhere at the top section. If you can't locate it yourself, ask a local independent specialist for help to find the number .

corktina

most if not all cars have a VIN plate AND ALSO the number stamped into the body. Usually in the engine bay or in the floor alongside the drivers seat.

Guy:Incognito

Seweryn wrote: »

It is only the VIN Plate and it can be put back onto a new replacement front part.
.

Or swapped from a completely different car.......

If its enough for the car to pass an nct and fool an unsuspecting buyer it may never come to light.

Seweryn

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Or swapped from a completely different car.......

In theory yes, but that is what the VIN nr is for on the chassis to match the VIN on the plate.

Secondly, there is another plate beside the VIN plate at the front with the vehicle equipment codes incl. body paint code, interior, all extras, etc. which should match the car:

v240gltse

thanks all.

been over the engine bay and cannot find any stamps agghhhhh. the option plate matches the car spec as well as the vin number on the slam panel.

Are there any other locations that a backup copy would be kept ?

thanks again for the help

brendan

Stoolbend

This seems to be a requirement this year in doe and nct. Vin plates are easily transferable between cars. So it has to be found stamped on the chassis.

Land rover discovery has it on the chassis leg inside the right hand rear wheel. Any bit of surface rust and you'll struggle to find it.

Peugeot 206 has it stamped on the back panel. Any decent rear damage and the panel will be replaced and vin no. gone.

George Dalton

It has always been part of the test. It doesn't seem to always get checked though. As other posters have pointed out it is a pretty important check. If it wasn't required as part of the test then it would make it very easy for someone to swap the ID of a stolen and/or imported car and then sell it on to some unfortunate individual with a new NCT and a supposed clean bill of health.

Plenty of testers don't seem to know where to look for the stamped VIN on certain cars though. I have seen a few cars lately that have failed for the VIN not being visible despite it being in the correct location and 100% present and correct. This may be the case with your car. Maybe neither you or the NCT tester were looking in the right place.

In fairness to the tester who failed your car he probably doesn't see W124 Mercs come in very often and knowing off the top of your head where the VIN is stamped on every make and model of car isn't something too many people could claim as the location varies massively depending on the make and model.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

George Dalton

I have no idea, maybe nct tester will be along soon to tell us

Donnelly117

George Dalton wrote: »

In fairness to the tester who failed your car he probably doesn't see W124 Mercs come in very often and knowing off the top of your head where the VIN is stamped on every make and model of car isn't something too many people could claim as the location varies massively depending on the make and model.

Thats true but hardly the drivers fault that he doesnt know where to look. Surely the NCT mechanics should err on the side of passing the car instead of failing it because they cant figure where the number is...

v240gltse

hi

I pointed out to the tester the VIn on the slam panel and he said that its only a "commissioning plate " and is not the correct location for the one required for the test. In fairness he did know his merc's and said he had checked under the drivers and passengers seats without any luck , so i believe he was really trying to find it

The place where everyone has indicated on the bulk head for the VIN is blank.

So assuming for whatever reason the VIN number has been erased/omitted how do i go about getting a document/Cert to verify its the correct one on the slam panel and get my nct ??

thanks

brendan

challengemaster

Log book will have your vin on it. Check if it matches

Seweryn

challengemaster wrote: »

Log book will have your vin on it. Check if it matches

It matches with a number that can't be found on the chassis, which is the point .

L-M

Is the plate just riveted on? It must be stamped somewhere on the car, it was hardly released without the chassis number actually imprinted on the Chassis.

Keep looking :P

corktina

take out the carpets, I bet it's in the floor

JOSman

Don't know if this is any help?

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w124-e-ce-d-td-class/1187891-where-can-i-find-vin-engine.html

Best of luck.

L-M

corktina wrote: »

take out the carpets, I bet it's in the floor

Actually, the newer ones have it printed on the floor on the drivers side. Should be a little flap in the carpet. Worth a try.

Seweryn

v240gltse wrote: »

So assuming for whatever reason the VIN number has been erased/omitted how do i go about getting a document/Cert to verify its the correct one on the slam panel and get my nct ??

thanks

brendan

Brendan,

There are also places where a Datenkarte could be left. It's a sticker like this one:



These are placed usually:
- under front seats,
- under rear seats,
- in the boot (back bulkhead under the rear window, on the side wings, ect.),
- behind door cards,
- on the floor under front carpets,
- hidden behind the dash / glovebox.

If that helps at all.

v240gltse

hi

yes the number on the plate matches the cert alright and the area where the VIN should be is blank ;-C. I seem to remember the previous owner saying that the drivers front wing had been damaged and only the wing needed to be replaced.

Just wondering if there was actually more than that replaced now but that's in the past and I have to get on with what i have . So if anyone has come across a similar scenario please please let me know on how they got a replaced VIN certification ( if such a thing exists ).

Long term if I don't get a cert will it mean that i will have to scrap the car ??


regards

brendan

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

L-M

You could just find someone with a stamp and stamp it into the body.

corktina

that.s what I did.

michellie

Or you can go to the guards and get a form filled out, bring that into the NCT centre and they will accept it .

corktina

michellie wrote: »

Or you can go to the guards and get a form filled out, bring that into the NCT centre and they will accept it .

I tried that before getting the stamps. The Gards were singularly unco-operative.

nct tester

The only place I ever saw vin number stamped on the body of an e class is on the firewall on the older mercs and under the seat on the newer ones. Ignore all suggestions to get it stamped on the body by someone.

If it can't be located, you need to go back to the NCT centre and get a form from them regarding verification of the vin number. This form needs to be brought to Garda station who will sign it once they're satisfied the car is not stolen or no reason to suspect it could be a different car than it should be. Bring the form back to the NCT centre and collect your cert.

This is standard procedure with this problem and also with cars that are prone to rusting in vin number locations like the discovery and ssang yong rexton. We have access to autodata which give chassis locations but it's not accurate a lot of the time and doesn't have locations sometimes either.

v240gltse

hi nct tester

thanks so much for the informative help , just wish the tester had given me the form and i could have had it sorted today .

Just to be sure what exactly is the form called ?

thanks again

brendan

Mycroft H

nct tester wrote: »

The only place I ever saw vin number stamped on the body of an e class is on the firewall on the older mercs and under the seat on the newer ones. Ignore all suggestions to get it stamped on the body by someone.

If it can't be located, you need to go back to the NCT centre and get a form from them regarding verification of the vin number. This form needs to be brought to Garda station who will sign it once they're satisfied the car is not stolen or no reason to suspect it could be a different car than it should be. Bring the form back to the NCT centre and collect your cert.

This is standard procedure with this problem and also with cars that are prone to rusting in vin number locations like the discovery and ssang yong rexton. We have access to autodata which give chassis locations but it's not accurate a lot of the time and doesn't have locations sometimes either.

Do you've to do that every time you go for an NCT or is it recorded on the system for next years test?

corktina

nct tester wrote: »

The only place I ever saw vin number stamped on the body of an e class is on the firewall on the older mercs and under the seat on the newer ones. Ignore all suggestions to get it stamped on the body by someone.

If it can't be located, you need to go back to the NCT centre and get a form from them regarding verification of the vin number. This form needs to be brought to Garda station who will sign it once they're satisfied the car is not stolen or no reason to suspect it could be a different car than it should be. Bring the form back to the NCT centre and collect your cert.

This is standard procedure with this problem and also with cars that are prone to rusting in vin number locations like the discovery and ssang yong rexton. We have access to autodata which give chassis locations but it's not accurate a lot of the time and doesn't have locations sometimes either.

That's nonsense. There is no law that says the stamp cannot be re-done or that it has to be in a certain place.and the car cannot be failed if this has been done. Provided it is not done with criminal intent, it is perfectly above board to do it

nct tester

Can't remember the name of the form but ask for the team leader in the NCT centre and he'll know what you're looking for. Hold onto a copy of it for future tests, NCT keeps one copy.

Sure if any joe soap could stamp a chassis number on a car, all criminals would be at it. If I was buying a golf or an avensis and the chassis number was stamped somewhere else on the car and missing from its original spot, I'd walk away.

L-M

To be fair, just having a riveted on plate is as bad.

GSBellew

Limerick man wrote: »

To be fair, just having a riveted on plate is as bad.

The riveted on plate is only the weight plate, it has the chassis no, type approval number, gross vehicle weight, towing weight & axle weights, possibly a few more manufacturer dependant details like colour code or production week.

This can be a riveted plate or more normally these days a tamper proof sticker.
Every car has a chassis number physically stamped into the bodyshell, on a W124 it is on the firewall / bulkhead.

corktina

nct tester wrote: »

Can't remember the name of the form but ask for the team leader in the NCT centre and he'll know what you're looking for. Hold onto a copy of it for future tests, NCT keeps one copy.

Sure if any joe soap could stamp a chassis number on a car, all criminals would be at it. If I was buying a golf or an avensis and the chassis number was stamped somewhere else on the car and missing from its original spot, I'd walk away.

Show me the regulation that says you cannot do this.
Show me where it lays down where the number must be.
You don't have the knowledge to "walk away" from a vehicle on these grounds.

If a car comes to you with a chassis number stamped on it, you can't fail it for that reason.

PS what if they stamp it in the original spot? Fiendishly clever these crooks....

REXER

George Dalton wrote: »

Plenty of testers don't seem to know where to look for the stamped VIN on certain cars though. I have seen a few cars lately that have failed for the VIN not being visible despite it being in the correct location and 100% present and correct. This may be the case with your car. Maybe neither you or the NCT tester were looking in the right place.

In fairness to the tester who failed your car he probably doesn't see W124 Mercs come in very often and knowing off the top of your head where the VIN is stamped on every make and model of car isn't something too many people could claim as the location varies massively depending on the make and model.

Actually, in fairness its his job to know and not mess the customers about!

Old diesel

Mycroft H wrote: »

Go to Mercedes and get documentation from them? Proof from them that's its been unmodified.

This - exactly this - or at the very least raise the issue on an owners club Forum for Mercs.

Sadly I don't know which forums are best for Mercedes.

Hope you get this sorted

Old diesel

nct tester wrote: »

The only place I ever saw vin number stamped on the body of an e class is on the firewall on the older mercs and under the seat on the newer ones. Ignore all suggestions to get it stamped on the body by someone.

If it can't be located, you need to go back to the NCT centre and get a form from them regarding verification of the vin number. This form needs to be brought to Garda station who will sign it once they're satisfied the car is not stolen or no reason to suspect it could be a different car than it should be. Bring the form back to the NCT centre and collect your cert.

This is standard procedure with this problem and also with cars that are prone to rusting in vin number locations like the discovery and ssang yong rexton. We have access to autodata which give chassis locations but it's not accurate a lot of the time and doesn't have locations sometimes either.

Thanks a million for that - given the way things normally work in the country - then it would be assumed that no vin number stamped in the body - means tough luck.

Good to know theres a procedure in place to deal with this issue .

djimi

corktina wrote: »

That's nonsense. There is no law that says the stamp cannot be re-done or that it has to be in a certain place.and the car cannot be failed if this has been done. Provided it is not done with criminal intent, it is perfectly above board to do it

How can you prove criminal intent when it comes to the NCT?

Im not doubting you about regulations tbh, but surely it makes more sense to question it if the number is not stamped in the correct location?

Old diesel

djimi wrote: »

How can you prove criminal intent when it comes to the NCT?

Im not doubting you about regulations tbh, but surely it makes more sense to question it if the number is not stamped in the correct location?

What does the actual rule say for the NCT - i thought that it was simply a case that the VIN had to be stamped on the car body to pass.

Does every car with a VIN number after 1980 (i think) when the 17 degit VINs became mandatory have it stamped into the body.

Could imagine easily a manufacturer thinking that putting the VIN on the plate in the bulkhead would be sufficient back in the 80s.

But that won't pass the test i understand.

And what happens if the car has the VIN number in 2 places from factory - you then stamp the exact same VIN number in a 3rd place on the car.

What issue araises there - afterall - surely if one was up to bad boyo type tricks like ringing - youd be stamping in the correct position surely - to avoid suspicion .

Im not an expert on VIN numbers though - it was only when the NCT bought in this requirement that i realised that the VIN was even stamped on the body.

I always thought before then - it was always put on that plate thing you see on the bulkhead.

George Dalton

REXER wrote: »

Actually, in fairness its his job to know and not mess the customers about!

Doesn't sound like he messed the customer about in this case as the car has no VIN number stamped on it!

corktina

djimi wrote: »

How can you prove criminal intent when it comes to the NCT?

Im not doubting you about regulations tbh, but surely it makes more sense to question it if the number is not stamped in the correct location?

exactly, the onus would be on the "prosecution"

I know of no regulation that says a chassis number must be in a certain location

It's not an NCT testers job to refuse to pass a car with the number in the "wrong" location. If h has doubts, he is welcome to report it to the relevant authority (which isn't the NCTS)