Sevens Rugby in Ireland

Nialler15

Im not sure if there is an existing thread for this but just wanted to get the general feeling regarding Sevens and Ireland.

Why do they constantly choose to ignore it and not enter a sevens team on the World Circuit.

The huge funding that the womens 7's team is great but where is the return on that investment? Sure you may get some players that progress from the sevens into the full womens Interntaional side. But until the day that the womens team sells out the Aviva, I cant see why so much would be invested into the womens sevens and not the mens.

This is not a sexist comment before the abuse starts. It just doesnt make sense to invest so much into something that you are going to get seriously limited return on. I understand the sports council provided a lot of the investment but would the IRFU not have been better off getting the investment into the mens 7's?

LeinsterDub

Money isn't the issue with Men's 7's politics is . Some of the blazers don't want it and until such time that changes it won't happen

Nialler15

Beggers belief if that is the case.

Such a great way to give young lads opportunities of playing in front of big crowds in big stadiums, developing a different skill set to 15's that would benefit in 15's.

justsomebloke

Nialler15 wrote: »

This is not a sexist comment before the abuse starts

BionicRasher

justsomebloke wrote: »

Always thought that 7’s would benefit the overall rugby playing population and would I am sure unearth some gems along the way. I really cant understand why its not a big part of the rugby plan in Ireland.
Can someone explain why the suits/blazers don’t want it?

justsomebloke

tui0hcg wrote: »

sorry it's in relation to 'this is not a sexist comment'. It is a sexist comment so lets not bandy around the bush.

The IRFU isn't stupid. If they felt there was a devolpmental advantage to using 7s, they would. However the IRFU think it is more advantagous to keep the numbers in the 15 man games as there is a hell of a lot more money to be made from the 15s game then there is from 7s.

justsomebloke

Also in the short term the IRFU probably believe that the women have more chance of putting in a good performance at the Olympics compared to the men.

thebaz

if 7s at the Olympics is a success in Rio, then after the IRFU will probably then distribute money to support a mens a team - I assume, they are waiting to see if it takes off successfully come Olympic time

I would love to have seen BOD as a forward at the olympics - gilroy, luke F, and a few of the younger academy fliers would be nice too

Losty Dublin

justsomebloke wrote: »

sorry it's in relation to 'this is not a sexist comment'. It is a sexist comment so lets not bandy around the bush.

The IRFU isn't stupid. If they felt there was a devolpmental advantage to using 7s, they would. However the IRFU think it is more advantagous to keep the numbers in the 15 man games as there is a hell of a lot more money to be made from the 15s game then there is from 7s.

In agreement with this. I'd prefer to see the IRFU investing money in areas that will grow and pay back into the game as a whole rather than spend it on wages for coaches and fringe players.

BionicRasher

Are there many 7s players that have moved on to the full form of the game to play in tests etc?

As a spectacle 7s can be very exciting and there seems to be a great social scene at tournaments. I am sure it would a a great way to get more people involved in rugby and is a step up from tag.

I think there is a great opportunity for it to take off for people that may not be interested in the full 15s game where there is considerably more contact and the possibility of more injuries. People may be enticed by the fact that you only need 7 for a team and not 15 therefore more likely to get a team together if numbers are low.

qwerty95

I reckon if Ireland hosted some sort of tournament for Sevens for a weekend in the Aviva, had the beers flowing, spectators dressing up etc. It would boost both the interest in the sport and a good image for Ireland as a Rugby Nation.

Yeah_Right

tui0hcg wrote: »

Are there many 7s players that have moved on to the full form of the game to play in tests etc?

Off the top of my head .... Christian Cullen, Jonah Lomu, Glenn Osbourne, Zinzan Brooke, Buck Shelford, Joe Rokocoko, Mils Muliaina, George Gregan, Joe Roff, Bryan Habana, Jean DeVilliers, Augustin Pichot, Jamie Roberts, James Hook, Lawrence Dellablio.

Nialler15

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Off the top of my head .... Christian Cullen, Jonah Lomu, Glenn Osbourne, Zinzan Brooke, Buck Shelford, Joe Rokocoko, Mils Muliaina, George Gregan, Joe Roff, Bryan Habana, Jean DeVilliers, Augustin Pichot, Jamie Roberts, James Hook, Lawrence Dellablio.

Really woudnt be worth the IRFU's while so investing in it.

Yeah_Right

Nialler15 wrote: »

Really woudnt be worth the IRFU's while so investing in it.

Yeah. looking at the rubbish players that come out of 7s rugby, I completely understand why the IRFU ignores it.

justsomebloke

The question isn't who came out of 7s, the question is whether their experience of 7s subsequently made them a better 15s player.

Chances are we would have had players like Zebo, Fitz and Gilroy playing 7s and thinking 'wow look at the types of players 7s is turning out' where the reality is that playing 15s has actually probably brought them to the same level if not a higher level quicker.

Thud

justsomebloke wrote: »

The question isn't who came out of 7s, the question is whether their experience of 7s subsequently made them a better 15s player.

Chances are we would have had players like Zebo, Fitz and Gilroy playing 7s and thinking 'wow look at the types of players 7s is turning out' where the reality is that playing 15s has actually probably brought them to the same level if not a higher level quicker.

dunno, in terms of developing wingers they would get much more time on the ball in 7's, have to work decision making and develop passing/offloading skills in game situations that they just wont get as often in 15s. I think someone like Earls could have benefitted a lot from it and possible made his move to centre easier

BionicRasher

justsomebloke wrote: »

The question isn't who came out of 7s, the question is whether their experience of 7s subsequently made them a better 15s player.

Chances are we would have had players like Zebo, Fitz and Gilroy playing 7s and thinking 'wow look at the types of players 7s is turning out' where the reality is that playing 15s has actually probably brought them to the same level if not a higher level quicker.

I think that the 7s format would unearth some players that would not necessarily be discovered by the 15s game. take the example of some young fellas that don't have a big rugby club nearby where they live but bandy together to start playing in a social 7s league and from there progress to moving on to bigger clubs and to the 15s game.
I think its a no-brainer really and is a great intro in to rugby as I know many folk that are too wary of going to join a club in their teens as they think its all about bulk and brawn and that they may be too flimsy to get involved in the 15s game. I for one enjoyed playing league/7s type set up while in school as I wasn't the biggest fella but I later went on to play some club rugby as a winger/full back and occasionally scrum half!!

justsomebloke

But in that scenario 7s would be directly competing against tag rugby to be the 'social' rugby. Given the infrastructure already in place for Tag, 7s would have a major battle to try and get a foothold in the social space

Thud

justsomebloke wrote: »

But in that scenario 7s would be directly competing against tag rugby to be the 'social' rugby. Given the infrastructure already in place for Tag, 7s would have a major battle to try and get a foothold in the social space

Social tag and sevens are very different. I think the player overlap between social tag an sevens would be reasonably small, maybe a bit more from the higher level tag teams but the majority of player in the lower tag leagues would have little interest in contact/training etc

Cianoooo

It's unfortunate that there seems to be IRFU opposition to men's 7s rugby regardless of finances and choice of players. A group of AIL players have come together to propose an independently funded national team to attempt to qualify for the Olympics in 2016 but they have been refused consent by the IRFU.

The reasons seem to be along the lines of "we would get hosed." There appears to be a lack of understanding of the amount of training required to reach the physical standards of international 7s and the IRFU don't believe there are the talent resources not to embarrass the them on an international level.

hahashake

Cianoooo wrote: »

It's unfortunate that there seems to be IRFU opposition to men's 7s rugby regardless of finances and choice of players. A group of AIL players have come together to propose an independently funded national team to attempt to qualify for the Olympics in 2016 but they have been refused consent by the IRFU.

The reasons seem to be along the lines of "we would get hosed." There appears to be a lack of understanding of the amount of training required to reach the physical standards of international 7s and the IRFU don't believe there are the talent resources not to embarrass the them on an international level.

If that really is the case it's a bizarre reason. I would argue not having a team makes them look worse than having a team that didn't challenge the top teams right out of the gate. You can't tell me an Irish team would struggle to beat teams like Russia and Portugal.

I assume it has more to do with resource allocation, both in terms of money and players. They are biding their time to see how the Olympics plays out. No doubt in the long term an Irish 7s team is an almost certainty.

Then of course there is the argument that 7s may divert public attention from the 15 man game, which is absolute nonsense.

CatFromHue

I like the idea of what the AIL guys came up with but it was never going to be a runner with the IRFU. They're never gone to sanction a team they've no control or input over to play under their umbrella.

Sandwlch

Nialler15 wrote: »

Im not sure if there is an existing thread for this but just wanted to get the general feeling regarding Sevens and Ireland.

Its a Mickey Mouse game. Good policy to ignore it.

In the amateur days it was a handy end of season jolly, chance for a bit of crack and cameraderie, and was a consolation prize for some players just not quite making it in full international representation.

Getting the stamp of approval from that sporting cesspit that is the olympics is proof positive of its sporting irrelevance.

hahashake

Sandwlch wrote: »

Its a Mickey Mouse game. Good policy to ignore it.

In the amateur days it was a handy end of season jolly, chance for a bit of crack and cameraderie, and was a consolation prize for some players just not quite making it in full international representation.

Getting the stamp of approval from that sporting cesspit that is the olympics is proof positive of its sporting irrelevance.

Because what could more irrelevant than the Olympics? :rolleyes:

CatFromHue

For rugby the Olympics wouldn't rate very highly for me. Certainly a nice medal to have but a 6N, Rabo, or HEC would be more valuable.

You can see with football the template that we'd end up if rugby 15's ever became an Olympic sport nowadays.

its_phil

Sandwlch wrote: »

Its a Mickey Mouse game. Good policy to ignore it.

In the amateur days it was a handy end of season jolly, chance for a bit of crack and cameraderie, and was a consolation prize for some players just not quite making it in full international representation.

Getting the stamp of approval from that sporting cesspit that is the olympics is proof positive of its sporting irrelevance.

Time to move on from the amateur days I'm afraid.

Sandwlch

its_phil wrote: »

Time to move on from the amateur days I'm afraid.

Agree. The need for a 'fun' sevens type game is over and has no relevance in the professional rugby world.

Sandwlch

hahashake wrote: »

Because what could more irrelevant than the Olympics? :rolleyes:

To real sports fans, nothing I guess.

hahashake

Sandwlch wrote: »

To real sports fans, nothing I guess.

OK Buddy. I'm sure an Olympic gold medal doesn't impress you but you would be in the minority.

Cianoooo

hahashake wrote: »

If that really is the case it's a bizarre reason. I would argue not having a team makes them look worse than having a team that didn't challenge the top teams right out of the gate. You can't tell me an Irish team would struggle to beat teams like Russia and Portugal.

I assume it has more to do with resource allocation, both in terms of money and players. They are biding their time to see how the Olympics plays out. No doubt in the long term an Irish 7s team is an almost certainty.

Then of course there is the argument that 7s may divert public attention from the 15 man game, which is absolute nonsense.

That seems to be Wigglesworth's reasoning anyway - resource allocation in terms of player wouldn't matter because the IRFU can pull players at any time (they have done so in the past. It wouldn't matter in terms of money either if it was independently funded.

I agree that not having a team looks worse than having a team that's getting beat but that does look to be the case. Unfortunately, at present, Ireland would struggle to beat the likes of Russia and Portugal - the last Irish 7s team lost to Georgia and Zimbabwe.

I agree that it's nonsense that 7s could divert public attention from 15s as it is actually more likely to drive more people to rugby in general.

astonaidan

Sandwlch wrote: »

To real sports fans, nothing I guess.

Wow well thats quiet a idiotic statement, like seriously idiotic and not how real sports fans think at all

Cianoooo

Sandwlch wrote: »

Its a Mickey Mouse game. Good policy to ignore it.

In the amateur days it was a handy end of season jolly, chance for a bit of crack and cameraderie, and was a consolation prize for some players just not quite making it in full international representation.

Getting the stamp of approval from that sporting cesspit that is the olympics is proof positive of its sporting irrelevance.

I'm not sure what the definition of a Mickey Mouse game is but international 7s players are paid upwards of €30,000 p/a, play in front of crowds of over 20,000 people and in a competitive environment on an international stage.

It may still be a consolation prize for players who don't make it to full international representation but why should that stop them? Are you also advocating scrapping A rugby, club internationals, university internationals etc.? Is there a certain limit to the number of players who should be allowed to play the sport they enjoy professionally and for their country if the demand is there?

Are you saying that any sport that gets the "stamp of approval" from the Olympics is now irrelevant? As for a cesspit....I don't quite understand how the pinnacle of hundreds of thousands of athletes' career dreams is considered a cesspit.

its_phil

Sandwlch wrote: »

Agree. The need for a 'fun' sevens type game is over and has no relevance in the professional rugby world.

I meant you moving on from the amateur days

LeinsterDub

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/three-roads-to-rio-for-ireland-women-s-sevens-1.1682114

“We believe that 15s and Sevens are symbiotic,” said IRFU director of rugby Eddie Wigglesworth. “They need to exist and feed off each other because Sevens will benefit from that.”

Before a blazer rushed over to add for Women's , in the Men's games it's a parasitical

Henwin

The womens 7's side are off to Atlanta this week. Out of curiosity how are these girls compensated for leaving work for a week or so every so often. They obviously need to take time off work. Are they paid for this I wonder.
Any Ideas?

Thud

Quade Cooper wants to play sevens...

Article is a few weeks old but shows the difference between attitude in oz and nz to sevens compared to here

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/rugby-union/consider-all-players-for-rio-urges-quade-cooper/story-e6frg7o6-1226810028591#

King_of_Kingz

Brilliant game in my view, fantastic way to help players learn to make the most of space, off load in the tackle and be creative!

3 things that would really aid our 15s game and the 3 things which the current crop are missing, hope it develops in this way. Players who want to play 7s without a view to moving onto the 15s team fair enough, develop a solid base and have a go at the Olympics.

Win-Win

Sandwlch

King_of_Kingz wrote: »

Brilliant game in my view, fantastic way to help players learn to make the most of space, off load in the tackle and be creative!

Maybe it does have a role as a useful training drill then, particularly for kids or beginners. But still a sort of pitch-and-putt versus golf relationship though, as a minority niche route stepping stone to the real thing.

The Lost Sheep

Great find on balls.ie of Video of Ireland v Croatia in HK 7s in 1999. Irish side featured David Wallace, James Topping, Barry Everitt,
http://balls.ie/football/ireland-played-croatia-rugby-sevens-1999-youtube/

The Lost Sheep

Draw for world club 7s in Thomond been made.
Pool A
Auckland Rugby, Blue Bulls, New York City, Saracens.
Pool B
NSW Waratahs, Western Province, Vancouver and Stade Français
Pool C
Munster, Daveta(Fiji), San Francisco, Moscow.

thomond2006

Tickets aren't selling that well so far if you look at Ticketmaster. They're even offering MRSC members 2 for 1 until 11th July.

Very uninteresting pool for Munster!

Buer

thomond2006 wrote: »

Very uninteresting pool for Munster!

*cough* Fix *cough*

thomond2006

Buer wrote: »

*cough* Fix *cough*

Aye! I'm gonna assume that some of the WP and BB players will have sevens experience.

Has there been any indication as to the level of Munster player that will line out here? I'm tempted depending on the possible lineups!

The Lost Sheep

thomond2006 wrote: »

Aye! I'm gonna assume that some of the WP and BB players will have sevens experience.

Has there been any indication as to the level of Munster player that will line out here?

Id expect all sides will have players with some sevens experience apart from us.
IMO Munster probably will have a young enough side out with 1/2 big names involved to help with getting a crowd to go.

Ger Byrne 1

7s will help the speed of the game

Riskymove

Buer wrote: »

*cough* Fix *cough*

how dare you..sure Serge Blanco himself oversaw proceedings to ensure it was fully above board

Buer

Riskymove wrote: »

how dare you..sure Serge Blanco himself oversaw proceedings to ensure it was fully above board

I actually thought of Biarritz when I saw the draw!

To be honest, it makes sense to have Munster getting through to the latter stages. It will benefit the tournament overall and people will remember it fondly if the hosts are in the shake up at the end leading to the possibility of it being successful long term.

The Lost Sheep

CJ Stander, Van den Heever, Ronan O'Mahony and Luke O'Dea all will be involved for Munster
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/reds-signal-their-intent-for-upcoming-world-sevens-30399771.html

phog

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

CJ Stander, Van den Heever, Ronan O'Mahony and Luke O'Dea all will be involved for Munster
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/reds-signal-their-intent-for-upcoming-world-sevens-30399771.html

Managed by Colm McMahon.

Looking forward to it.

justsomebloke

hmmm, wonder how it's going to effect their preseason?

phog

It looks like Carlin Isles will play in the tournament.

Cian Tracey (@CianTracey1) tweeted at 7:32 PM on Thu, Jul 03, 2014:
Carlin Isles gone back to America to focus on 7s. He's one of the many stars set to play at the @WorldClubSevens tournament in Limerick.