My Search For A Property in D4/6/14/16 FTB

Shane732

Following on from The_Conductor's recommendation to start my own thread I've decided to give it a go.

I'm currently looking to buy somewhere in the Dublin 4/6 region but would be willing to consider parts of Dublin 14/16. Ideally I'm looking for somewhere around Rathgar, Ranelagh, Terenure, Rathmines, Rathfarnham.

I'm a first time buyer. This property won't be a property for life, it's property for the time being. The time being could be 10 years if I found the right property. I'm working in D6 and commuting into the city on a daily basis at present.

I will be taking a mortgage on the property, probably somewhere in the region of 75% but naturally this depends on how much I spend! I'm young, 24, so won't have a problem getting a 35 year mortgage. My intention would be to make as much in roads into whatever mortgage I take as I can in the first 5 years.

I'm under no pressure to buy so I don't have to buy in the short-term.

My budget isn't massive, probably somewhere in the region of €275,000 if I buy in the short term but if I hold off until this time next year the budget could be somewhere in the region of €350,000.

I'm looking for at least a 2 bed. I'm not against buying an apartment but would probably prefer a house if possible.

At present I've looked at a few places in Rathfarnham and will be looking at 1 or 2 places this week.

handlemaster

Shane732 wrote: »

Following on from The_Conductor's recommendation to start my own thread I've decided to give it a go.

I'm currently looking to buy somewhere in the Dublin 4/6 region but would be willing to consider parts of Dublin 14/16. Ideally I'm looking for somewhere around Rathgar, Ranelagh, Terenure, Rathmines, Rathfarnham.

I'm a first time buyer. This property won't be a property for life, it's property for the time being. The time being could be 10 years if I found the right property. I'm working in D6 and commuting into the city on a daily basis at present.

I will be taking a mortgage on the property, probably somewhere in the region of 75% but naturally this depends on how much I spend! I'm young, 24, so won't have a problem getting a 35 year mortgage. My intention would be to make as much in roads into whatever mortgage I take as I can in the first 5 years.

I'm under no pressure to buy so I don't have to buy in the short-term.

My budget isn't massive, probably somewhere in the region of €275,000 if I buy in the short term but if I hold off until this time next year the budget could be somewhere in the region of €350,000.

I'm looking for at least a 2 bed. I'm not against buying an apartment but would probably prefer a house if possible.

At present I've looked at a few places in Rathfarnham and will be looking at 1 or 2 places this week.

Your looking in popular areas I dont know if your budget will hold up much of a house going into the new year. Particularly at the lower end of your budget anyhow. Best of luck

Shane732

handlemaster wrote: »

Your looking in popular areas I dont know if your budget will hold up much of a house going into the new year. Particularly at the lower end of your budget anyhow. Best of luck

I agree with you.

If I'm buying at the lower end of the budget it'll definitely be an apartment.

Santa Cruz

You may be able to buy a former council house in D14 for that type of money. Estates like Mulvey Park Dundrum, close to Luas at Windy Arbour, close to Dundrum, UCD etc. Big long gardens. Most houses are now privately owned often by family members who grew up there and then a share by people new to the area. A share of additional houses built because of the big gardens or good extensions. Might be worth a look. Don't be put off by them being former council houses

sarkozy

I can't see how, at present price increases, houses for €275,000, or even €350,000 without major work needing done, and even with work needing done, would be realistic. True, two-beds are cheaper, but frankly, it very much depends how particular you are about areas and postcodes.

If you're fixed on the southside, fine, but you're going to have to compromise. That's something you're going to have to work out yourself - what, particularly, you want. There's better value going on central northside neighbourhoods, too, and the other central even-Dublin-postcodes.

It's a fine suggestion about ex-council houses in Dundrum, but the demand for those already is immense, and the prices are reflecting that.

Just start looking at places, it's an education in yourself.

PS: this whole thread is predicated on the assumption that your employment situation is that a bank has formally offered you a certain amount and you can meet the conditions precedent of the loan.

Shane732

sarkozy wrote: »

I can't see how, at present price increases, houses for €275,000, or even €350,000 without major work needing done, and even with work needing done, would be realistic. True, two-beds are cheaper, but frankly, it very much depends how particular you are about areas and postcodes.

If you're fixed on the southside, fine, but you're going to have to compromise. That's something you're going to have to work out yourself - what, particularly, you want. There's better value going on central northside neighbourhoods, too, and the other central even-Dublin-postcodes.

It's a fine suggestion about ex-council houses in Dundrum, but the demand for those already is immense, and the prices are reflecting that.

Just start looking at places, it's an education in yourself.

PS: this whole thread is predicated on the assumption that your employment situation is that a bank has formally offered you a certain amount and you can meet the conditions precedent of the loan.

I agree with what you're saying. The likelihood is that I'll be buying an apartment with my price range. This probably isn't the best option as it means the purchaser is a shorter term thing.

In terms of living elsewhere in Dublin - it's not something I'm really interested in.

Wabbit Ears

Having lived and learned from the current property bust this whole idea of buying as a step onto the property ladder is a really bad idea as prices do not always just go up, which is the foundation upon that idea is based.

If you are a buying a property which you intend to live in, Ie your principal private residence, Buy with the idea the this is where you will live indefinitely. This way you can still sell, move and do whatever in the timeframes you originally planned for but if prices stagnate or drop there is no loss in the sense you aren't stuck with a property you want rid of and are still happy living in.

moxin

You need to find out the max you can borrow from the bank. Since about August they have rowed back on the multiples of salary. Depending on your income, its 3.5 to 4 times your salary for a single person and you must have no debts with a good savings record to match the amount of future mortgage repayments per month.

Shane732

moxin wrote: »

You need to find out the max you can borrow from the bank. Since about August they have rowed back on the multiples of salary. Depending on your income, its 3.5 to 4 times your salary for a single person and you must have no debts with a good savings record to match the amount of future mortgage repayments per month.

I'm not hugely limited by my salary, although some of salary is performance related which the bank aren't particularly interested in. I'm more looking at the monthly payments I'd be happy to comfortably make while allowing me to continue to save an amount. I could push the boat out and borrow the maximum amount possible but then I don't have much of an ability in the short term to do anything with the property or if I needed funds for anything else I'd be tight on funds. Naturally if it's an apartment then there isn't a huge amount I can do with the property anyway.

I looked at a place in Eglinton Court today. Lovely area but I'd sooner sleep on Eglinton Road than in the apartment I looked at!

sarkozy

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

Having lived and learned from the current property bust this whole idea of buying as a step onto the property ladder is a really bad idea as prices do not always just go up, which is the foundation upon that idea is based.

If you are a buying a property which you intend to live in, Ie your principal private residence, Buy with the idea the this is where you will live indefinitely. This way you can still sell, move and do whatever in the timeframes you originally planned for but if prices stagnate or drop there is no loss in the sense you aren't stuck with a property you want rid of and are still happy living in.

Which is why, and it's a personal view, that buying a house is better than an apartment, and buying a better 2-3 bedroomed house in a good area near but outside the OP's preferred postcodes is better than buying something sub-optimal in a good area. And if OP's rationale is the 'property ladder' theory, it's currently defunct and always subject to market crisis. That's just the historical reality.

OP: you might be missing out on good areas due to your postcode myopia - Of course, I totally see why you'd want to focus on those (already high-demand) areas, but your price-range may not allow that unless you already have significant savings in order to either put up significant capital to improve your LTV or to pay for substantial renovations (if you're not happy to live in a Steptoe & Son scenario).

On another note, I think apartment living is where Dublin should go, and there should be more incentives to create a higher density city because they function better. The European trend is towards 'Liveable Cities', not edge cities like Dublin has become. But without that discourse gaining traction in Ireland, and without strong central policy leadership, and given macroeconomic instabilities, I would never at present look at buying an apartment for the reasons you are.

Idbatterim

this looks decent value to me op...

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/4-altamont-hall-dundrum-dublin-14/2659031

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/79-loreto-row-rathfarnham-dublin-14/2655355 this one isnt bad either...

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/46-broadford-rise-ballinteer-dublin-16/2658607

irishguy

Have you considered harolds cross there are a few small houses that would be in your budget. Lots of the areas you mentioned would have larger houses or apartments, there are a few areas in D6/w that have older smaller houses.

Zamboni

Idbatterim wrote: »

this looks decent value to me op...

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/4-altamont-hall-dundrum-dublin-14/2659031

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/79-loreto-row-rathfarnham-dublin-14/2655355 this one isnt bad either...

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/46-broadford-rise-ballinteer-dublin-16/2658607

Second one is about 100metres from settled travelers in Nutgrove Crescent
Some people can be weird about that sort of thing.

Broadford Rise looks decent enough.

Idbatterim

the traveller camp which is settled housing is at nutgrove crescent...

Shane732

Well I think I'm going to up the budget to between €325,000 and €350,000. This will give me a good bit to look at and I should be able to get a good apartment or perhaps a reasonable enough house.

Long term I think a house would be the better option as I can expand etc... However, the reality is that this property isn't going to be a property for life so regardless of whether I buy a house or an apartment I'll be looking to move on in the future.

Shane732

Is anyone familiar with Bushy Park House? Looking at the property price register there seems to have been a number of apartments purchased in the final quarter of 2013 for between €275,000 and €300,000.

From what I can see these would have been two bed apartments.

I've inquired about one that's currently for sale and am due to view it, however I'm told there is an offer of €350k on the property at the moment.

Seems unusual that it would be selling €50k over the most recent transactions in the development (assuming the properties are similar).

Cuddlesworth

Shane732 wrote: »

Is anyone familiar with Bushy Park House?

Nice area, nice apartments, well built, good amenities nearby.

Getting into town by bus takes longer than you would expect, similar with car. Lots of traffic filtering into choke points. At rush hour it can be around 15 minutes to the M50 on ramp.

eclectichoney

Shane732 wrote: »

Is anyone familiar with Bushy Park House? Looking at the property price register there seems to have been a number of apartments purchased in the final quarter of 2013 for between €275,000 and €300,000.

From what I can see these would have been two bed apartments.

I've inquired about one that's currently for sale and am due to view it, however I'm told there is an offer of €350k on the property at the moment.

Seems unusual that it would be selling €50k over the most recent transactions in the development (assuming the properties are similar).

Cheaper ones might be ground floor and in less good condition decoration wise etc. More expensive ones might be top floor / better spec kitchens etc. But also, prices in South Dublin have increased at alarming rates in the past 6-9 months. Not unusual to see 15-20% in some areas.

johnnyskeleton

Shane732 wrote: »

Is anyone familiar with Bushy Park House? Looking at the property price register there seems to have been a number of apartments purchased in the final quarter of 2013 for between €275,000 and €300,000.

From what I can see these would have been two bed apartments.

I've inquired about one that's currently for sale and am due to view it, however I'm told there is an offer of €350k on the property at the moment.

Seems unusual that it would be selling €50k over the most recent transactions in the development (assuming the properties are similar).

Not saying that I agree with the below, but it is one explanation:

The ones that went up as sold in the last quarter of 2013 were presumably sale agreed earlier in the year, before the mania began. So, the 50k extra, or 16% increase is as a result of the recent buying mania.

Shane732

eclectichoney wrote: »

Cheaper ones might be ground floor and in less good condition decoration wise etc. More expensive ones might be top floor / better spec kitchens etc. But also, prices in South Dublin have increased at alarming rates in the past 6-9 months. Not unusual to see 15-20% in some areas.

From memory 128 now has an offer of €350k and 126 sold for €275 - €300k a few months ago.

How much did these go for in the boom times?

Theboinkmaster

Tbh I would wait a year and 350k should easily secure you a house in d14 or 16.

IMO there's a serious bubble in south dublin about to pop over the next year or so, those prices aren't sustainable and mostly due to current cash bubble amongst other things.

Wait a year and see what happens, I wouldn't buy and apartment.

Shane732

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Tbh I would wait a year and 350k should easily secure you a house in d14 or 16.

IMO there's a serious bubble in south dublin about to pop over the next year or so, those prices aren't sustainable and mostly due to current cash bubble amongst other things.

Wait a year and see what happens, I wouldn't buy and apartment.

I guess it comes down to just how many cash buyers are out there. If and when the cash buyers dry up then the lack of credit should cause prices to drop.

There seems to be a huge obsession with property prices. The reality is that it's the interest that's the real cost. How quickly you repay the mortgage is what matters.

Why wouldn't you buy an apartment? The apartment I'm looking at now is 1,150 sq ft. with no other apartment backing on to it.

Glenbhoy

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Not saying that I agree with the below, but it is one explanation:

The ones that went up as sold in the last quarter of 2013 were presumably sale agreed earlier in the year, before the mania began. So, the 50k extra, or 16% increase is as a result of the recent buying mania.

In my experience, the irrational exuberance peaked in the first six months of 2013 and since then it has been easing off slightly? Now, that's entirely based on anecdotal evidence and personal experience which is of course very limited. I've also noted that it typically takes about 5-6 months from sale agreed to PPR.

Afaik, there was an indication in the last CSO stats that the rate of increase is slowing down too (once again, there's a lag to factor in there too).

Glenbhoy

Shane732 wrote: »

From memory 128 now has an offer of €350k and 126 sold for €275 - €300k a few months ago.

How much did these go for in the boom times?

http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3823&start=30

I remember going to view one back in 2003 - decent location, but just a little out of my price range, that said, I wouldn't have had any problem getting the finances in place!!

Shane732

Glenbhoy wrote: »

http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3823&start=30

I remember going to view one back in 2003 - decent location, but just a little out of my price range, that said, I wouldn't have had any problem getting the finances in place!!

Cheers very much appreciated.

I'm not actually looking in Bushy park. I was using Bushy Park as an example of the increase over the last 6-9 months because there was activity on the property price register.

It's interesting that the apartments are below 2003 prices. €600k for them is just amazing.

moxin

Shane732 wrote: »

Why wouldn't you buy an apartment? The apartment I'm looking at now is 1,150 sq ft. with no other apartment backing on to it.

High management fees would put me off. Some say you can get involved with the management of the complex to try to lower fees but that would be just too much hassle and too much time involved. Some complexes charge 2,000 pa without lifts, that's madness.

johnnyskeleton

Shane732 wrote: »

Cheers very much appreciated.

I'm not actually looking in Bushy park - the one I'm looking at is loughmorne house. I was using Bushy Park as an example of the increase over the last 6-9 months because there was activity on the property price register.

It's interesting that the apartments are below 2003 prices. €600k for them is just amazing.

A lot of predictions of the crash suggested that going back to 2002 was a good indication point. This is on the basis that the bubble started around 99/2000 and generally prices will lose most (but not all) of their real value.

However, don't forget that there may be an aspirational change in the meantime. Suburban apartments are not as desirable now as they were then, relative other property types. In my view, apartments have appeal to two main types of people:

1) city centre, trendy inner suburbs or beside luas/dart for young professionals with no children;
2) downsizers who wish to remain in the same suburb.

The difficulty is that Dublin City Centre has remained relatively good for apartment rentals etc but I suspect a lot of the potential downsizers are happier to stay in their large house rather than sell up or, if they are in negative equity, are not being forced to sell up. Thus, the attractiveness of suburban apartments that don't have easy access to town has gone down disproportionately.

Shane732

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

A lot of predictions of the crash suggested that going back to 2002 was a good indication point. This is on the basis that the bubble started around 99/2000 and generally prices will lose most (but not all) of their real value.

However, don't forget that there may be an aspirational change in the meantime. Suburban apartments are not as desirable now as they were then, relative other property types. In my view, apartments have appeal to two main types of people:

1) city centre, trendy inner suburbs or beside luas/dart for young professionals with no children;
2) downsizers who wish to remain in the same suburb.

The difficulty is that Dublin City Centre has remained relatively good for apartment rentals etc but I suspect a lot of the potential downsizers are happier to stay in their large house rather than sell up or, if they are in negative equity, are not being forced to sell up. Thus, the attractiveness of suburban apartments that don't have easy access to town has gone down disproportionately.

Well I'm a young professional so I fit the bill in that sense.

While I'd love to buy a house the reality is that I can't afford the type of house I'd ideally like in the area I'm looking. Sure I could buy somewhere in an estate like, say, Mount Argus/Mount Tallant etc... but if I'm honest I wouldn't be happy there at all. Anything I buy now will be a compromise.

The other side of it is that I'm currently commuting 25 miles each way everyday. The commute doesn't bother me, I enjoy driving. However, it's getting to the stage where I need to be closer to work if I'm to advance my career as I want to.

I could rent and have looked at renting but I struggle to satisfy myself that renting is the right thing to do.

Shane732

moxin wrote: »

High management fees would put me off. Some say you can get involved with the management of the complex to try to lower fees but that would be just too much hassle and too much time involved. Some complexes charge 2,000 pa without lifts, that's madness.

I looked at one place where the management fees were €3,200 per annum! Only 10 apartments so €32,000 of a budget and the management company's fee was€8,000! 25% of the budget!!

Shane732

Ok so I have a property in mind...

There hasn't been a whole lot of activity on the property.

A summary of the bidding

Asking price €325k
First bid €340k (rejected - vendor apparently said he wanted €375k - this was before Christmas)

I don't think there has been another formal bid on the property but the agent mentioned that there was a provisional offer of €360k on the property subject to the purchaser selling their own property.

I've been told that the vendor will take the property off the market at €350k.

So I've a few questions is it unusual for a first bid to be €15k over asking? I would have thought that you'd at least start the bidding at asking or under. I know some agents list properties low to try and generate interest.

Secondly, would you offer €350k to get the property off the market?

I'm relatively happy that the property is priced correctly, although I'd prefer it to be at €335k as opposed to €350k. A property in a similar development went sale agreed in the past couple of weeks for €342k. It was largely similar to the one I'm looking at.

Properties in bushy park are going for anything from €330k - €375k. These would be at least 200 sq ft smaller than the one I'm looking at. Property in Mount Saint Anne's is going for between €325k and €380k from what I've seen.

A smaller two bed went for €290k in the same development in the last couple of months. This property was at least 300 sq ft smaller than the one I'm looking at. So is a €60k premium for 300 sq ft worth it? The apartments would be quiet different, albeit both 2 beds.

The property cost over €400k in 2002.

Opinions please!

handlemaster

Usually first offers are at our under asking but all depends on the demand for the property. That's a nice area you are looking I like it myself. It could be a good tactic for the buyer as A it shows the seller you are really interested B other possible buyers might be afraid to start a bidding war or bid at all.