Thanks for Nothing ESB!

ossacidoq7641

Our company has decided to move production elsewhere before Christmas as they can't risk a power outage. Management feel given the real threat that they can't take the risk.

So thanks for nothing ESB. Its a fine country that you can hold businesses to ransom.

Sunnyisland

ossacidoq7641 wrote: »

Our company has decided to move production to the UK before Christmas as they can't risk a power outage. Management feel given the real threat that they can't take the risk.

So thanks for nothing ESB. Its a fine country that you can hold businesses to ransom.

Is that the real reason ? Or is this some scaremongering story ? And welcome to boards and a few links or proof that this happening would help.

BetterThanThou

Why is the risk of a power outage any higher here than it is in the UK? I'm 17 and I can only remember experiencing 2 or 3 power outages in my entire life time, all of which were fixed within hours.

hansfrei

Are management going too?

ossacidoq7641

ossacidoq7641 wrote: »

Our company has decided to move production elsewhere before Christmas as they can't risk a power outage. Management feel given the real threat that they can't take the risk.

So thanks for nothing ESB. Its a fine country that you can hold businesses to ransom.

Temporary or permanent?

Phoebas

BetterThanThou wrote: »

Why is the risk of a power outage any higher here than it is in the UK? I'm 17 and I can only remember experiencing 2 or 3 power outages in my entire life time, all of which were fixed within hours.

What?

KyussBishop

Proof?

BetterThanThou

BetterThanThou wrote: »

Why is the risk of a power outage any higher here than it is in the UK? I'm 17 and I can only remember experiencing 2 or 3 power outages in my entire life time, all of which were fixed within hours.

Well, if the people operating the power station decide not to turn up for work, the safety systems will cut in and shut down the generators thus leaving insufficient power available to the network for everyone to have a supply.

Load shedding will have to happen to avoid "brownouts".

dirtyden

ossacidoq7641 wrote: »

Our company has decided to move production elsewhere before Christmas as they can't risk a power outage. Management feel given the real threat that they can't take the risk.

So thanks for nothing ESB. Its a fine country that you can hold businesses to ransom.

Where are they moving to?

They are going to move an entire production process due to a risk of limited power outages? How does this make any sense?

What do you make?

This seems highly improbable.

road_high

dirtyden wrote: »

Where are they moving to?

They are going to move an entire production process due to a risk of limited power outages? How does this make any sense?

What do you make?

This seems highly improbable.

Why highly improbable? If it's all about minimising risk and if the company has capacity elsewhere why would they run the risk and not move it?
Sounds like a very sensible and cautious thing to do from their point of you.
Certainly reading all the threats from the esb unions, it would be prudent. Highly unfortunate for the Irish economy and op of course.

fred funk }{

I call shanadigains on this thread.

Sunnyisland

fred funk }{ wrote: »

I call shanadigains on this thread.

It seems your right :mad:

Plazaman

Yes and the potato slicing machine in the Coolock plant could break down before Christmas too and fúck if I'm expected to work without me Tayto so I'm emigrating.

hfallada

I seriously hope the government goes to town on ESB. I never seen such a sense of entitlement from any company in Ireland. Most of the employees earn twice the industrial wage and they make you believe they are living on the breadline.

gandalf

hfallada wrote: »

Most of the employees earn twice the industrial wage and they make you believe they are living on the breadline.

Naw in their case it's the Brioche line

dirtyden

road_high wrote: »

Why highly improbable? If it's all about minimising risk and if the company has capacity elsewhere why would they run the risk and not move it?
Sounds like a very sensible and cautious thing to do from their point of you.
Certainly reading all the threats from the esb unions, it would be prudent. Highly unfortunate for the Irish economy and op of course.

Until we know what this company make, where this excess capacity is, what are the logistical implications of moving production then I guess either of us could be wrong or right.

But I think moving a company based on a threat of potential industrial action which may lead to limited power outages is an extreme kneejerk reaction. I mean it is just as likely that there will be no industrial action, or that it will have little impact on them. They could also implement a contingency before then rather than closing for what is most likely to be a minor disruption.

Sunnyisland

hfallada wrote: »

I seriously hope the government goes to town on ESB. I never seen such a sense of entitlement from any company in Ireland. Most of the employees earn twice the industrial wage and they make you believe they are living on the breadline.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057086400

It's all in here if you like to debate your opinions.

joe swanson

The workers are right. They are not being listened to. Its not about pay its about pensions which many of them have spent years paying into. But sure dont let that get in the way of a story.

hansfrei

joe swanson wrote: »

The workers are right. They are not being listened to. Its not about pay its about pensions which many of them have spent years paying into. But sure dont let that get in the way of a story.

We were over this in fairness. No, its not about pensions

Cian92

hfallada wrote: »

I seriously hope the government goes to town on ESB. I never seen such a sense of entitlement from any company in Ireland. Most of the employees earn twice the industrial wage and they make you believe they are living on the breadline.

Seeing as the dispute is about pensions, their rate of pay has nothing to do with it. Profitable company pays their workers a decent wage, I see no problem here.

KyussBishop

Bad troll attempt is bad (takes just a few moments to think of a multitude of reasons why what the OP claims is bullshít, and make no financial sense at all); thread is likely to be merged with the other ESB one.

Femme_Fatale

It is about pensions - why lie that it isn't? Even if a lot of them (certainly not all) have seriously good working conditions, that's beside the point: they are not wrong to object to their pensions not being guaranteed. Any of the critics here would. But they should opt for a different strategy to cutting the power, which would be disgraceful.

hfallada wrote: »

I seriously hope the government goes to town on ESB. I never seen such a sense of entitlement from any company in Ireland. Most of the employees earn twice the industrial wage and they make you believe they are living on the breadline.

What? Which of them make you believe they are living on the breadline? "Most" - where are you getting that figure from?

Femme_Fatale

KyussBishop wrote: »

Bad troll attempt is bad (takes just a few moments to think of a multitude of reasons why what the OP claims is bullshít, and make no financial sense at all); thread is likely to be merged with the other ESB one.

Even intelligent people on that thread have assumed "Writing for the Evening Herald" mode.

Infini

joe swanson wrote: »

The workers are right. They are not being listened to. Its not about pay its about pensions which many of them have spent years paying into. But sure dont let that get in the way of a story.

To be honest this whole countrys a bunch of hypocrytes. I doubt the workers want to go strike this close to christmas but when your not listened too and you hear excuses being made constantly people eventually get fed up and have to act to make a point.

What disgusts me is people think they're somehow on massive money when usually the reality is theyre closer to the average wage. You hear crap like how the scheme is funded till 2018 but all that is an excuse to kick the can down the road when it could become a much more serious problem then. Theres also the fact that theyre NOT entitled to the state pension because of the way the pension is setup (its a supperanuation scheme).

Lets be honest here. This whole country would rather whinge and biatch on the joe duffy show than actually go out and protest proper like those lads in Ukraine or Greece about real issues (ie: Wanker Bankers not being prosecuted fast enough, white collar crime that crippled this country). They complain how they shouldnt be allowed to strike etc only because it INCONVENCES THEM. I can guarantee you if it was their own pension they'd be singing a different tune. No wonder my own generations emmigrating en mass who wants to stay in a country that acts like complete sheep and not stand up for themselves. If i didnt already have a decent job id be gone outta this country for good as well.

Cian92

hfallada wrote: »

I seriously hope the government goes to town on ESB. I never seen such a sense of entitlement from any company in Ireland. Most of the employees earn twice the industrial wage and they make you believe they are living on the breadline.

Sorry I had to come back to this post, it stinks of begrudgery. If I can't have a job with their pay and conditions or higher no one can, no matter how qualified they are.

The majority giving out here seem to be students who probably work a few days a week on a minimum wage job in a factory or a shop and thus don't see many people with much money as their colleagues are on quite low wages, and their classmates probably wouldn't be earning much either. You're shooting yourself in the foot when you are qualified you won't be able to earn much if you campaign for a deterioration in the pay and conditions of workers.

Just to clarify I'm a student (I know nobody working in the ESB) yet I fully support them in their strike action, someone has to stick up for workers, people seem to be more outraged that the ESB are prepared to strike than the fact that our government paid unsecured bondholders. I have been told that our factory will have to shut if their is no electricity but so what a few days isn't going to kill anyone!

Femme_Fatale

Cian92 wrote: »

I have been told that our factory will have to shut if their is no electricity but so what a few days isn't going to kill anyone!

Ah now, while I agree they're right to be angry over their pensions (which they have contributed to for years) and all the misinformed stuff about their (as in the whole company's) conditions are grating, turning off the power would be despicable. It's not about it killing anyone, look at all the essential services that would be interrupted - and in the winter and coming up to Christmas.
Low blow if it goes ahead.

ossacidoq7641

realies wrote: »

Is that the real reason ? Or is this some scaremongering story ? And welcome to boards and a few links or proof that this happening would help.

They cut the temps contracts. Can't say much on boards.ie.

But yes the planned strike is a real problem. American companies here have other manufacturing sites around the world. You would be crazy to loose production when you could have taken action.

I think this country is crazy to let a couple of people hold us to ransom. These guys are paid well. I am all for solidarity with fellow workers, But they are not loosing their jobs or loosing their pensions. The ESB won't be wound up tomorrow. Crazy,.

ossacidoq7641

dirtyden wrote: »

Until we know what this company make, where this excess capacity is, what are the logistical implications of moving production then I guess either of us could be wrong or right.

But I think moving a company based on a threat of potential industrial action which may lead to limited power outages is an extreme kneejerk reaction. I mean it is just as likely that there will be no industrial action, or that it will have little impact on them. They could also implement a contingency before then rather than closing for what is most likely to be a minor disruption.

They are not moving the company, they just canceled production in Ireland to move to a facility elsewhere in Europe. They ended Temps contracts early.

I am sure it will make it to the news in due course. What choice to companies have? The uncertainty of this strike is the worst thing.

Sunnyisland

ossacidoq7641 wrote: »

They cut the temps contracts. Can't say much on boards.ie.

But yes the planned strike is a real problem. American companies here have other manufacturing sites around the world. You would be crazy to loose production when you could have taken action.

I think this country is crazy to let a couple of people hold us to ransom. These guys are paid well. I am all for solidarity with fellow workers, But they are not loosing their jobs or loosing their pensions. The ESB won't be wound up tomorrow. Crazy,.

As far as I have read its nothing got to do with what they are paid,but all got to do with what they have already paid into there pension funds and the goverment/management want to take that back from what there rightly entitled to,and it's justnot a couple of people ,87% voted in favor of strike action.

Anyway already a thread on the ifs buts and whys of the action.intresting reading.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

In fairness, I have a small business, two employees one full time and one part time, and I have had to tell them both that if this act of national economic sabotage goes ahead I will have no option but to lay them off if the power is cut.
Its not something I want to do but I have no choice, similarly I am having to advise my customers that we may not be able to service orders from Mon 16th due to the threats of Mr Ogles spoilt "chasing the gravy" members.
Let nobody fool themselves, this strike will cost jobs.

Femme_Fatale

Genuine question: how would the power being off for a few hours a few days cost jobs? Not defending it whatsoever, it'd be a disgrace, but people are saying it would cost jobs a fair bit - how are they coming to this conclusion?

ossacidoq7641

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Genuine question: how would the power being off for a few hours a few days cost jobs? Not defending it whatsoever, it'd be a disgrace, but people are saying it would cost jobs a fair bit - how are they coming to this conclusion?

Well if the production lines or distributions centres can't operate... And if you are the MD of a company that can't operate you have a lot of questions to answer when head office says why you didn't take action.

This is a BIG deal. Of course we have power outages from time to time.. But this is planned action. Companies can't take the risk.

DamagedTrax

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Genuine question: how would the power being off for a few hours a few days cost jobs? Not defending it whatsoever, it'd be a disgrace, but people are saying it would cost jobs a fair bit - how are they coming to this conclusion?

if a company cant operate then they cant make money, if they cant make money they cant make rent or wages. a small or start-up company surviving month to month would be seriously affected.

having said that i support them taking action, just not this. a refusal to collect by their accounting department with full support from all others areas, would have been a better idea. hurt the company, not the customer.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Genuine question: how would the power being off for a few hours a few days cost jobs? Not defending it whatsoever, it'd be a disgrace, but people are saying it would cost jobs a fair bit - how are they coming to this conclusion?

My business depends on electricity, without it we cant function, if I cant operate then I have to turn away business, business which may well now go abroad.
Short term staff are laid off a week before Christmas, long term their jobs are genuinely endangered.

Bah Feckin Humbug!

Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

My business depends on electricity, without it we cant function, if I cant operate then I have to turn away business, business which may well now go abroad.
Short term staff are laid off a week before Christmas, long term their jobs are genuinely endangered.

I don't see why anyone would have to be laid off over a few power cuts. What would you do if there was a normal power cut. Surely the worst case would be give them a few days off without pay and then once the power is back get then back to work.

In any case even if there were power cuts which I don't think will happen. It would be a few hours here and there not constant so people can just work around this.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Darian Shallow Velour wrote: »

I don't see why anyone would have to be laid off over a few power cuts. What would you do if there was a normal power cut. Surely the worst case would be give them a few days off without pay and then once the power is back get then back to work.

We haven't had a "normal" power cut in three years.
Are you suggesting that I take orders that I am doubtful that I can deliver on because a bunch of spoilt brats in the ESB are determined to sabotage the country?

Femme_Fatale

DamagedTrax wrote: »

if a company cant operate then they cant make money, if they cant make money they cant make rent or wages. a small or start-up company surviving month to month would be seriously affected.

But would a few hours for a few days have that much of a fallout?

NuckingFacker

ossacidoq7641 wrote: »

Our company has decided to move production elsewhere before Christmas as they can't risk a power outage. Management feel given the real threat that they can't take the risk.

So thanks for nothing ESB. Its a fine country that you can hold businesses to ransom.

Sounds like BS tbh. I've been setting up and checking generators for companies that can't afford to suffer a power outage and compared to moving, it's buttons to be 100% sure of having power. And the gennies are all capable of providing 120% of absolute peak load, hence feck the esb.

Grabbing any reason to move or else just plain bs IMO.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

But would a few hours for a few days have that much of a fallout?

Yes at such a busy time of the year.
Its the uncertainty, and the inability to guarantee that orders can be serviced on time, lost production time is neigh on impossible to make up.

DamagedTrax

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

But would a few hours for a few days have that much of a fallout?

well, for me a few hours is a full day as clients book us per day (this is our industry standard). luckily i dont have staff to pay as im a sole trader but imagine i did... so even with workers temporarily laid off, i'd still need to make rent, bills and loans and i'd take zero money in. what if the strike lasted for 2 weeks? i'd then be in serious trouble and need to go looking for more credit to cover what i owe!

JONJO THE MISER

Pathetic scumbags if they strike and bring the country to a halt, hopefully the Irish people will let them know what they think of the bastards if they strike.

magicman88

Would it not b cheaper buy a generator ha ha or rent one for the day even

NuckingFacker

NuckingFacker wrote: »

Sounds like BS tbh. I've been setting up and checking generators for companies that can't afford to suffer a power outage and compared to moving, it's buttons to be 100% sure of having power. And the gennies are all capable of providing 120% of absolute peak load, hence feck the esb.

Grabbing any reason to move or else just plain bs IMO.

The company I work for have just done an audit on the diesel tanks for the standby generators and ordered that all tanks are filled and sufficient fuel storage made available for up to one week without power. Assuming intermittent rolling blackouts, that's a couple of months of fuel.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

magicman88 wrote: »

Would it not b cheaper buy a generator ha ha or rent one for the day even

Dipstick post!

magicman88

magicman88 wrote: »

Would it not b cheaper buy a generator ha ha or rent one for the day even

Bicycles attached to generators.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C93cL_zDVIM

magicman88

Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

Dipstick post!

How so I work in a production factory recently the esb were installing new power lines and so had to run on a generator no big deal

Sir Humphrey Appleby

magicman88 wrote: »

How so I work in a production factory recently the esb were installing new power lines and so had to run on a generator no big deal

And every small business in Ireland can afford to have one installed, one of sufficient power to run their business?
Not to mention your snide ha ha in the middle of the post!

magicman88

Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

And every small business in Ireland can afford to have one installed, one of sufficient power to run their business?
Not to mention your snide ha ha in the middle of the post!

Well obviously not every small business but surely cheaper rent one then move a whole factories production

NuckingFacker

Deleted User wrote: »

The company I work for have just done an audit on the diesel tanks for the standby generators and ordered that all tanks are filled and sufficient fuel storage made available for up to one week without power. Assuming intermittent rolling blackouts, that's a couple of months of fuel.

That's what we've been doing. Load tests were carried out today when staff were off to make sure all the auto-kick-ins were working and everything is shipshape.

Bah Feckin Humbug! wrote: »

Dipstick post!

Why? It's more dipstick to say "ohh, the powers off, we're finished". What do ye do when the toilet gets blocked? Slam down the shutters and jack it in? It's just another problem to be dealt with. Power isn't some magical fairy dust, it's just electricity. You can buy and hire machines that produce it. TBH, the water being off is a muuuch bigger problem. I've yet to come across a water generator and people don't stop going loo, or drinking, or using water in processes and I can't just roll in a machine and switch it on. I've had to tanker in artic loads of water before - waters a beeatch to provide. Leccys a doddle.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

magicman88 wrote: »

Well obviously not every small business but surely cheaper rent one then move a whole factories production

In my case the ONLY option I have is to lay two really good staff off, and hope that we can repair the damage caused to the business at a later stage.

Just seen in the other thread that it's resolved!