moral dilemma

general paulus

Heres the issue: i had a classice car advertised online and a guy in England agreed to buy it.
I had it advertised lower than its actually worth. He contacted me and said he'd buy it - i agreed and on that he paid a deposit and booked a ferry (330GBP).
Sice then i have found out the true value of the car which is actually a few grand sterling more than i had it listed.
i rang him the other night and said the deal was off that i no longer wanted to sell. Not a nice thing to do but i was getting ripped off (my own fault I know, but i coped it before it was too late).
Now he is telling me that i need to pay his ferry cost as i backed out of the deal. Morally i know that this is the right thing to do and i have offered but i would just like more opinions. I guess it was very foolish of me to try sell it when i didnt know the true value. I am going to be out of pocket about 400 euros.
I also assume he could legally get his money back also?

diomed

My word is my bond.

131spanner

If you stood to be robbed of a few grand by selling the car and are now losing €400 quid by backing out, you could be doing worse in fairness.

Pay him the €400 and let that be that sorted.

Pay him back his ferry fare for feck sake.

cali_eire

I would pay his expenses in these circumstances.

The One Who Knocks

general paulus wrote: »

Heres the issue: i had a classice car advertised online and a guy in England agreed to buy it.
I had it advertised lower than its actually worth. He contacted me and said he'd buy it - i agreed and on that he paid a deposit and booked a ferry (330GBP).
Sice then i have found out the true value of the car which is actually a few grand sterling more than i had it listed.
i rang him the other night and said the deal was off that i no longer wanted to sell. Not a nice thing to do but i was getting ripped off (my own fault I know, but i coped it before it was too late).
Now he is telling me that i need to pay his ferry cost as i backed out of the deal. Morally i know that this is the right thing to do and i have offered but i would just like more opinions. I guess it was very foolish of me to try sell it when i didnt know the true value. I am going to be out of pocket about 400 euros.
I also assume he could legally get his money back also?

Morally it's the right thing to do,

However, you could say that you were under the influence of alcohol when you entered into the contract and that would make it invalid. D*ck move though,

highly1111

Pay back the ferry cost. Karma and guilt will rear their ugly heads otherwise b

The Backwards Man

Pay his ferry only if he makes the journey across. Morally you're in the clear and doing a bit for the economy too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kNwvIEQsg0

General General

All is fair in love, war & international wheeler-dealing.

Y'know... backing out of a deal & hanging the other person out to dry is very much like...

ScumLord

Pay him back his ferry costs. You're going to be making more money on the deal in the long run anyway.

He probably could sue, especially if there's an email trail showing you agreed to the sale.

And remember for next time to price it higher than you expect to get, you've left no room for haggling.

MidlandsM

I'm a car dealer, and you've broken your end of the deal....it's real annoying in this business.

Pay him back ....and add €400 more to the new price of the car you are going to sell. That'll be you covered, and him payed.

All sorted.

M5

general paulus wrote: »

Heres the issue: i had a classice car advertised online and a guy in England agreed to buy it.
I had it advertised lower than its actually worth. He contacted me and said he'd buy it - i agreed and on that he paid a deposit and booked a ferry (330GBP).
Sice then i have found out the true value of the car which is actually a few grand sterling more than i had it listed.
i rang him the other night and said the deal was off that i no longer wanted to sell. Not a nice thing to do but i was getting ripped off (my own fault I know, but i coped it before it was too late).
Now he is telling me that i need to pay his ferry cost as i backed out of the deal. Morally i know that this is the right thing to do and i have offered but i would just like more opinions. I guess it was very foolish of me to try sell it when i didnt know the true value. I am going to be out of pocket about 400 euros.
I also assume he could legally get his money back also?

You Put a car up for sale at a price
Buyer agrees to the price + the conditions you set (deposit and ferry cost)
You decide you no longer wish to sell at the price
And you actually need to come to AH to decide IF you should pay him back!

general paulus

M5 wrote: »

You Put a car up for sale at a price
And you actually need to come to AH to decide IF you should pay him back!

what is AH?

biko

There is no dilemma here.
It's the right thing to do and the ****ty thing to do.
Do the right thing.

bbam

I 99% agree with the sentiment in the above posts.
However, it's likely that the buyer was well aware that OP was being short changes in the deal. It would appear that his morals were on pause as he was happy to see OP screwed on price. It's. It like he said "I'll throw you a few extra grand as your ring caught in the deal"

General General

general paulus wrote: »

what is AH?

Here. &, by the way, you do realize every response to your request for advice is billed @ 40 euros, yeah?

M5

general paulus wrote: »

what is AH?

After hours.... Where you posted

cali_eire

general paulus wrote: »

what is AH?

After Hours

General General

bbam wrote: »

I 99% agree with the sentiment in the above posts.
However, it's likely that the buyer was well aware that OP was being short changes in the deal. It would appear that his morals were on pause as he was happy to see OP screwed on price. It's. It like he said "I'll throw you a few extra grand as your ring caught in the deal"

Good point. I doubt that he didn't think the OP was a dimwit bog-trotting potato-gobbler.

biko

bbam wrote: »

I 99% agree with the sentiment in the above posts.
However, it's likely that the buyer was well aware that OP was being short changes in the deal. It would appear that his morals were on pause as he was happy to see OP screwed on price. It's. It like he said "I'll throw you a few extra grand as your ring caught in the deal"

It's possible but also maybe not the case.
But I suppose it would help to think that way to try to alleviate the guilt of backpedaling on an agreed deal.

M5

Dont see this being a "moral dilemma"

Sounds like your trying to see if you can wrangle your way out of paying this unfortunate lad back!

There is only one moral and likely only one legal outcome.

Pay him back and appologise profusely for shafting him and wasting his time!

general paulus

i know its the right thing to do and i did offer, just been thinkin about it and as previously mentioned he would have been happy enough to leave me short changed in the first place. ah doesnt matter thats a different story i will pay him back the ferry...cheers to anybody who commented

M5

general paulus wrote: »

i know its the right thing to do and i did offer, just been thinkin about it and as previously mentioned he would have been happy enough to leave me short changed in the first place. ah doesnt matter thats a different story i will pay him back the ferry...cheers to anybody who commented

He agreed to pay YOUR BLOODY ASKING PRICE!!!!!!

YOU SET THE PRICE!

its ALL on YOU!

General General

general paulus wrote: »

i know its the right thing to do and i did offer, just been thinkin about it and as previously mentioned he would have been happy enough to leave me short changed in the first place. ah doesnt matter thats a different story i will pay him back the ferry...cheers to anybody who commented

Grand stuff. Do you want to settle up for the advice now..? or will we all bill you? It's just that I don't think anyone here is sure we can altogether trust that we will see our cheques before Christmas from you.. y'know?

general paulus

M5 wrote: »

Dont see this being a "moral dilemma"


Pay him back and appologise profusely for shafting him and wasting his time!

i dont think i really shafted him, he wont have lost a penny. but hey if there is any winners here it is the ferry company.

theblaqueguy

general paulus wrote: »

i know its the right thing to do and i did offer, just been thinkin about it and as previously mentioned he would have been happy enough to leave me short changed in the first place. ah doesnt matter thats a different story i will pay him back the ferry...cheers to anybody who commented

No don't do it keep your money and tell him hes not getting anything back off you

ScumLord

M5 wrote: »

After hours.... Where you posted

That's a lie, it means Anal Hemorrhoids.

general paulus wrote: »

i know its the right thing to do and i did offer, just been thinkin about it and as previously mentioned he would have been happy enough to leave me short changed in the first place. ah doesnt matter thats a different story i will pay him back the ferry...cheers to anybody who commented

There's nothing to say he thought he was doing a number on you. Maybe he figured there was going to be something wrong with the car. The buyers job is to find the product they want for as cheap as possible. It's your job to get as much as you can for it. You failed your side of the bargain (mistakenly, but still).

If you can just get away with just paying your mans ferry charges and end up getting much more for the car, it's a win, win, this time around with some valuable lessons thrown in for good measure.

cali_eire

bbam wrote: »

I 99% agree with the sentiment in the above posts.
However, it's likely that the buyer was well aware that OP was being short changes in the deal. It would appear that his morals were on pause as he was happy to see OP screwed on price. It's. It like he said "I'll throw you a few extra grand as your ring caught in the deal"

It's irrelevant what the would be buyer thought about the deal (and it's speculation to assume anything). What we do know is the buyer and seller had an agreement and the seller broke this agreement. The moral onus is on the seller - either sell him the car at the agreed price or pay his expenses.

general paulus

M5 wrote: »

He agreed to pay YOUR BLOODY ASKING PRICE!!!!!!

YOU SET THE PRICE!

its ALL on YOU!

relax!!

M5

general paulus wrote: »

i dont think i really shafted him, he wont have lost a penny. but hey if there is any winners here it is the ferry company.

You agreed to sell the car ON THE CONDITION HE SPENT 300 ON FERRY TICKETS

he obliged, spent 300 of his own money on it, then you pull out.

That is a right royal shafting!

Cop yourself on!

MurdyWurdy

general paulus wrote: »

i dont think i really shafted him, he wont have lost a penny. but hey if there is any winners here it is the ferry company.

He will have lost a penny. He's paid money for a ferry trip that he now won't be taking because of your decision and can't get it back (unless he booked a flexi ticket and who does that?). It's a waste of money for him.

cali_eire

general paulus wrote: »

i dont think i really shafted him, he wont have lost a penny. but hey if there is any winners here it is the ferry company.

To be honest, even paying for his expenses, you leave the buyer in a worse state than you met him in. His lost time and frustration dealing with you and the situation cant have been very pleasant.

ghogie91

Em you kind of left yourself open to a possible legal comeback, not that anything would come out of it, but definitely broke a binding agreement by the sounds of it, so pay the ferry costs and hope it all blows over. If he was trying to pul la fast one when he seen the price he will accept that you must have come to your senses, if he is a thick fanatic then he could take it further

jimmer123

Have you offered to sell him the car at the price its worth?

General General

Yeah... pay up... but get that ticket off him.

Would you like to pay for this advice by paypal? for convenience, like. It's just you're into some of us now for over 100 euros each.

Jesus... Pay the fuking boat. He paid for it due to your complete lack of knowledge.

If you were my mate and didn't pay, I'd smack you in the head myself.

ScumLord

ghogie91 wrote: »

Em you kind of left yourself open to a possible legal comeback, not that anything would come out of it,

As a ferry is involved I'm assuming the sale is in the UK. If the website is in the UK too he could be looking at charges from a UK court where there may be laws to deal with this kind of dispute.

MarkR

What would you want if it was reversed? Pay the man, else you're likely to be visited by the ghosts of Christmas past..

ghogie91

ScumLord wrote: »

As a ferry is involved I'm assuming the sale is in the UK. If the website is in the UK too he could be looking at charges from a UK court where there may be laws to deal with this kind of dispute.

Yeah true, although with (if he agrees) the sellers apology and total willingness to cover any costs incurred to potential buyer a court would bring the case in and and it be back out the door before the seats got warm

remsburgsgirl

You know the right thing to do is pay the man back.
But a lot of people out there who couldn't give a sh*t about morals and are better off financially because of it...you wouldn't be the only one at least...
I sent my car to a 'reputable' garage to be sold by them & they then take a cut...they sold my car (& about 30+ others) on and never paid us...went to court and all & we'll get no payment... not even a slap on the wrist for the company...so you'd probably be fine taking the moral 'low ground'...in this country at least you probably have nothing to worry about...don't know about in the UK though
Many people couldn't give a crap about moral these days, it's up to you whether you think you can live with it or not, that's probably about the worst of it

GT_TDI_150

Has he a receipt for the ferry fee?

ScumLord

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

Has he a receipt for the ferry fee?

Good point.

cali_eire

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

Has he a receipt for the ferry fee?

Receipt? ... Pay the dude what he is asking for the ticket and give him 100 extra to go for a nice dinner to apologize for your lack of follow through and be glad he isn't suing.

B.A._Baracus

cali_eire wrote: »

Receipt? ... Pay the dude what he is asking for the ticket and give him 100 extra to go for a nice dinner to apologize for your lack of follow through and be glad he isn't suing.

yeah right! :pac:

mountai

Man up and do the decent thing. Hope that there is no rust lurking under "immaculate" paintwork.!!

ScumLord

cali_eire wrote: »

Receipt?

Well the guy could be just annoyed and saying he paid for the ferry hoping to get something out of the deal.

cali_eire

ScumLord wrote: »

Well the guy could be just annoyed and saying he paid for the ferry hoping to get something out of the deal.

If I was asked for a receipt after what transpired I would be extremely insulted and on principle would take the matter further.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Well if he had to go to court he'd need to produce the receipt there to show he was in fact out of pocket.

He'd be dead right to ask for both a recipet and the tickets if he is going to be reimbursing the guy, (which he most definitely should do).

All this talk of court and suing? Jaysus it's not America were in lads. It was still your mans car to decide to sell or keep. As no money had passed hands the buyer had no legal claim to the car, yeah it's annoying and an inconvenience but would you really be bothered going to court

ScumLord

cali_eire wrote: »

If I was asked for a receipt after what transpired I would be extremely insulted and on principle would take the matter further.

I don't know why, if you have incurred a cost you should be able to produce a receipt. This is normal business practice, you don't just take people at their word.

Jake Rugby Walrus666

The phone coversation although creating a binding verbal contract wasn't recorded and could never be proved by the english chap/ victim.

Interestingly the opening post of this thread amounts to an non-repudiable admission to the existence and contents of that phone conversation.

B.A._Baracus

I guess I will be the jerk on this thread :P

Op, did he really book a ferry at that point?
You can't put it past him telling you a load of cobblers since you pulled out of the sale. Thinking you'll be an ol' fool and give him €400. If he has a receipt, then show you.

But even then .... should you give him the money for ferry?
I don't mean to make that sound in a 'right prick' sort of way but you didnt know the value and now you do. It happens. That's life. bad luck for him.

Certainly give him his deposit back if you havent already. You got to do that. But as for the ferry money? hell no.