Help needed (Sir Liam?)

corktina

this is the wiring on my fridge. I'm sorry it's sideways, I have no idea how to turn it round

MY kind technician had disconnected some of the wires and I have no idea which way to put them back

the disconnected areas are:
the van supply (I think the way I drew them will be correct)

Switch: pretty sure the middle is earth not sure if RED goes on the O side or I side.
The Control box: Four connections as shown...I don't know which go to where. Markings worn...left hand one (1) is certainly a lightning flash and right hand (4) an earth symbol

THe fridge is working on battery so I'm assuming the black/brown/grey wiring is all earth, not shown but there is an earth connection con grey wire going to switch from second connector

Right-click on jpeg file and "rotate clockwise" before uploading .

I think you might have to go to a higher source than me. I'm not sure I can figure this one out without mucking in. Given that your wiring isn't stock or really following much convention it may be safest to pay more attention to the voltages and polarity than the colours.
There isn't much danger of reverse polarity failure on a fridge because they're all resistive loads as long as you don't create a short or switch the wrong side.
I'm guessing (and this is only a guess etc.)
The thin wires are relay signal. Yellow&red = +, black brown = -.
After the second connector black might become + .
The Live and switched live going to the fridge switch should not be thin. Usually the convention here is two lives the same colour and an odd coloured ground.

Best advise would be to take the lot to a professional and get it fully working/serviced or spend the day in there with a multimeter sorting and labeling what's what. A 12v element alone won't get you very far.
Then I'd call around to your technician and let the air out of all 4 of his tyres.

The element should be switched by the fridge control somehow.

corktina

the element isn't the problem, that is working....it's just which wire plugs in where on that control unit really.... I tried it earlier and had no joy but I'm pretty sure the earth wire was in the wrong place......I'm working on the length of the wires, some patently don't go to particular points. I'l try again tomorrow...think have my ead round it a bit better.

Old wires will develop a shape from the connections they make. Often if laid out they present themselves how they want to be connected.
Can the 12volt element turn off while driving?

You could run new grounds easily enough.

corktina

there's an external switch for the 12 v element.

I think those terminals on the control box wil be

1 power in

2 power to either switch or gas ignitor
3 ditto

4 earth


switch is straightforward, presumably if I wire it wrong it will work but light will come on in O position rather than I

bugsntinas

don't know if it's any help but if ya up this way I could always try and pull my fridge out and ya could check the wiring.i know mine works off mains but have no leisure battery or gas.

corktina

corktina wrote: »

there's an external switch for the 12 v element.

I think those terminals on the control box wil be

1 power in

2 power to either switch or gas ignitor
3 ditto

4 earth

Having never worked on your model I honestly don't know. You need to suss what you can from 12v+/-, chassis continuity, resistance, etc.

corktina wrote: »

switch is straightforward, presumably if I wire it wrong it will work but light will come on in O position rather than I

According to your wiring diagram you've bypassed the switch.

I have to argue that that is a gas fridge with 12v support. So running it on 12v as a primary isn't achieving a whole lot and given that there's no thermostat on the 12v element you are in danger of melting something expecting 12v to do all the work for you alongside the battery implications I've mentioned previously.
I'm all for DIYing but in this case I think a qualified service technician is your best bet.

In any case let us know how you get on, as it'll be easier to diagnose as you go.

I'd consider pulling your multi-coloured cable and running just red and black cores while you're at it it'll make live easier next time.

corktina

it isn't MY cabling, it is Electroluxes! It just needs plugging back into the right holes. The only colour inconsistency is where the van wiring meets the fridge wiring and the switch isn't bypassed at all. Never mind, I'll sort it out

corktina

Might be clearer with a photo

you an see 4 wires going into the black box.I have plugged them in where they might fit, but all four were disconnected as were the three on the back of the switch (I fitted a new switch)

Black is the live feed, red and grey go to the switch and white is the lead to the gas ignitor

Aidan_M_M

They don't have a stat on 12v, they run through a fused live, into a switch and on to the element. Perfectly normal and doesn't give trouble usually. The odd burnt connection on a switch , the very odd dead element. I would relay the supply from the car, stitched by D+ so it only works with the engine on.

Aidan_M_M

The white one is usually the spark electrode wire.

Aidan_M_M

Is the 12v switch one that illuminates? Generally they have 3 wires, the input from car battery,, out to element , and a ground for the light in the switch.

corktina

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

The white one is usually the spark electrode wire.

but where does it connect?

corktina

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

Is the 12v switch one that illuminates? Generally they have 3 wires, the input from car battery,, out to element , and a ground for the light in the switch.

that's correct. it has two silver terminals and a brass one. The two silver ones are switched so I'm assuming the brass one is the earth. (I think it should light up, but no sign of life as yet)

corktina

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

They don't have a stat on 12v, they run through a fused live, into a switch and on to the element. Perfectly normal and doesn't give trouble usually. The odd burnt connection on a switch , the very odd dead element. I would relay the supply from the car, stitched by D+ so it only works with the engine on.

the 12v element is working and it is wired as you describe. It's simply knowing where the wiring for the gas ignitor goes....

(I assume that box is a relay)

I should add that wherever I plug in the live wire, the rest of the tterminals are dead, possibly the relay is the faulty, although the ignotor was originally clicking as if it was sparking

Aidan_M_M

The white wire would go from the box to the spark electrode. A mini HT lead as it were.

Aidan_M_M

corktina wrote: »

(I assume that box is a relay)

Assume nothing when working with electrics. That looks more like the spark igniter box.
I can sort it out for you if you like?

corktina

oh please ...can I drop it up to you?

Aidan_M_M

Of course.

corktina

can you give me a day...I can do tues/weds/thurs at the least

Aidan_M_M

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

They don't have a stat on 12v, they run through a fused live, into a switch and on to the element. Perfectly normal and doesn't give trouble usually. The odd burnt connection on a switch , the very odd dead element. I would relay the supply from the car, stitched by D+ so it only works with the engine on.

Yeah, I see the problem from not having a stat is that the manufacturers assume it's impractical to run it on 12v as a primary. Because of the huge load it draws it's only suitable for intermittent use such as when driving.
Now if I had a way to power the constant load with, for example a hydro turbine and could spare the power to run it 24/7 on 12v do you think it'd be a problem? If the element can take a constant current then everything inside will freeze and the operating temp. will soar, no?

This does give me an idea though . They could make more suitable and serviceable wind/hydro dump loads.

corktina

It only runs when the engine runs and there's always the option to turn it off!

That's not the problem. The problem is knowing which wire goes where, simply that.

Wherever I plug in the live, the other terminals are all dead so I am thinking the unit itself is the problem

corktina

bugsntinas wrote: »

don't know if it's any help but if ya up this way I could always try and pull my fridge out and ya could check the wiring.i know mine works off mains but have no leisure battery or gas.

what fridge do you have Bugs?

...ah, seeing as you are looking sorted, I was just hi-jacking your thread to pick Aidan's brain...


..it's kinda related

corktina

i'm not sorted at all

I meant you had a way to get it sorted on the cards.

If you get 0v after plugging in a positive I'd first check that the relay is wired correctly. Could be the coil is getting power from the wrong side.

bugsntinas

corktina wrote: »

what fridge do you have Bugs?

only just seen this.i know it's an Electrolux.i'll check the manual tomorrow.

corktina

Good man...if it's similar it may give a clue

Aidan_M_M

Can you leave it to me for a day?

@liam, they can run on 12v as a primary with no problems.

spaceHopper

Let Aidan fix it but you might find this usefull or interesting, it's the wiring diagram for my camper

https://app.box.com/shared/hllysrxlql


There are three connections to it, the "mains" elemet or 220V AC whe hooked up.

The 12V element which is switched by a reley when the engine is running.
The 12V igniter to light the gas run from the leisure battery.
There is also a fan with thermal cut in switch.

Sorry it's a little fuzze I scanned it from the manual and the writing from one page transfered to the other over the years.

corktina

thanks Spacehopper. It's actually the wiring of the fridge that is the problem

I don't really think it's worth spending money on to any great degree, so I'm just going to manage on 12v only. It's only in the height of summer that it would be a problem

bugsntinas

mine says 212A on the front

corktina

mines a different model, John, not worth all the trouble of taking yours out only to find it's different behind. Thanks anyway

Aidan_M_M

If you coukd leave it to me , I'd fix it in my own time purely to help out a forum member.

corktina

thanks, but it isn't worth the petrol I don't think for the use I'd get out of it. It's fine on 12v when I'm driving and stays cold for a while after

corktina

further back view

spaceHopper

The far left contact is the white wise going to the gas jet it carries the spark, check for shorts to the chassis on this.

Of the three in a row, the left one is the +12V, the L is Lamp (a guess) and the right is the ground.

I'd say the switch connects between the screw terminal carying the +12V (from the leisure battery) and the +12V on the box using the two outside contacts, the center one is probably the lamp contact.

The sparker (box) could be gone though I replaced the one on my fridge for about 80 euros including a new switch since I was taking at out. Made a big difference.

corktina

No , power goes from the screw terminal to the box, via the lead atthaced (you can tell that by the size of the connector) .then to the switch I'd say via the red lead (from the centre ?)with the grey lead coming back from the switch to the right terminal

spaceHopper

You said somebody tried to fix it?

What you are saying sounds wrong, I'd put the power to the switch then to the box. Think about it there is a GND connection on the box so the switch would go on the power in. If I get time I'll shine a torch on my fridge and see if I can make out the wiring!

corktina

no I don't think he did any more than unplug the wires.
The power lead definitely went to one of the three terminals and the right one is marked with a earth symbol. The lead is not long enough to reach the switch and has the wrong connector.

It would fit to the extreme left too, but I'd agree that is the white wire goes on there. (the white wire is long enough to fit one of the three terminals but i'd say it is that long as it was tied back to the gas pipe originally.


(OK so the fridge is potentially 25 years old and it is odd that the live wire becomes black...in fact the presence of that chocolate block connector leads me to think that the wiring has been altered at some stage for some reason))

edit: It does seem illogical, if the power went direct to the switch and then back left hand term with a lead to the lamp and the earth from the rh term back to the connector , that would be more logical.

Aidan_M_M

Okay , there's a metaphorical crossing of wires here!
That control box is I reckon the spark generator. Most usually switched by an orange switch , on very old models it can be red .
The 12v supply to the DC heating element shouldn't be connected to it at all!

I just want to clarify , your heating element is working fine , and is separate to all that?

That is the older type of spark box , and they do fail , especially if left sparking away by accident . which wire have you 12v+ in?

corktina

the 12v element is separate and is working. power is via the blue and white wire which changes to black after the connector (something screwy there)

Aidan_M_M

corktina wrote: »

the 12v element is separate and is working. power is via the blue and white wire which changes to black after the connector (something screwy there)

That's not unusual. Camper wiring meets fridge wiring.

spaceHopper

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

That is the older type of spark box , and they do fail , especially if left sparking away by accident . which wire have you 12v+ in?

Yea mine is from 91 and it sparked very slowly when I got it then it got left one once or twice and eventually died. I got a new one on e-Bay, fitted it myself and it brought a new lease of life to the fridge. I also changed the switch but you can get them cheaper from Maplin or Farnell.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dometic-Electrolux-caravan-motorhome-fridge-gas-igniter/290767194641?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D3296635023371990033%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D290552896900%26

Aidan_M_M

corktina wrote: »

the 12v element is separate and is working. power is via the blue and white wire which changes to black after the connector (something screwy there)

Anyways, from memory, 12v + and - in, + goes to the left of the 3 on the black box, the middle on the box goes to the switch, the 12v- goes to the centre of the switch and loops back to ground on the fridge chassis and the other pin on the switch , where the on is clicked to, connects to the right of 3 on the box.

If that doesn't work the box is prob crecm crackered. You could replace it cheaply with a piezo igniter button.

corktina

that's how I have it wired in my first photo , as that's how the wires seem to want to sit.

when I apply 12v to the left of the three terminals, what would I expect at the other terminals? should the middle one be live? only when earthed and the swtich truned on I imagaine

I've connected the wires thus fully. I have power going into the left term of three, nothing coming out from the other terminals. I think my box has died. Getting a new one will only present me with the same wiring dilemmas, so I think I'll forget the gas option altogethr

Aidan_M_M

corktina wrote: »

that's how I have it wired in my first photo , as that's how the wires seem to want to sit.

when I apply 12v to the left of the three terminals, what would I expect at the other terminals? should the middle one be live? only when earthed and the swtich truned on I imagaine

I've connected the wires thus fully. I have power going into the left term of three, nothing coming out from the other terminals. I think my box has died. Getting a new one will only present me with the same wiring dilemmas, so I think I'll forget the gas option altogethr

As I said, why not just get a cheap push button piezo igniter? Only one wire...