The Science of Site Navigation

Dav

Hello all,

You know how any time we make changes to the site, quite a few of you say that it "breaks" the way you use the site? When we made changes to the Home Page this year, we had put samples of what it would look like here on Feedback but almost no one looked at them and when we rolled the changes out many weeks later, there were a lot of you who were unhappy. We spent a lot of time tweaking and re-working some aspects of the home page redesign based on the feedback you gave us, but we could have avoided a lot of that work with the aid of some SCIENCE!

So, with that said, I want to talk about the particular brand of science we're going to use to help us out. We're generating what are called "heat maps" of typical activity using a service called Crazy Egg which plugs into the site and records things like where on the screen you're clicking and how exactly you're navigating around the site. This isn't PRISM level of tracking or anything like it (we still can't read your PMs nor do we want to tbh ) but it's incredibly useful stuff for us to have proper data on how the average member of the site moves around and interacts with the interface. We've added the following to our Cookies page: "Boards.ie uses a service called Crazy Egg to track some user behaviour. This enables us to optimise the site to better meet the needs of our users." If you're not sure what exactly all this means then in simple terms, the Crazy Egg code records for us where you click on the screen and what "path" you take when performing navigation on the site. This will let us find out for example how many people use the menu along the top (and how they use it) or who many of you use the omni-search bar, etc.

So, we're putting the Heat Map stuff live today with a view to building a model of "standard" behaviour which will mean a lot less guess work when we look at what sort of changes we might need to make in the future. It's also worth pointing out that heat map plug-ins like this are really common, so what we're doing here isn't anything particularly new or exciting.

Since we're here and we're talking, I'd like you all to meet our new Product Manager, Declan. He's going to be the man pulling together all the data this gathers for us and deciding how best to spend the tech team's time based on the ongoing results this gives us.

Black Swan

Dav wrote: »

Since we're here and we're talking, I'd like you all to meet our new Product Manager, Declan.

Welcome Declan!

Welcome Declan!

Are you as pretty as Nicola?

Posy

God help you welcome Declan!

NicsM

Deleted User wrote: »

Welcome Declan!

Are you as pretty as Nicola?

*cough* *blush*

MugMugs

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Welcome Declan!

Are you as pretty as Nicola?

Boys are handsome and GIRLS are pretty!

Welcome Declan.

Boards.ie: Declan

Thanks everyone - looking forward to working with you all.

The Master

Story Deco

hullaballoo

Dav, those maps sound like a great idea.

Declan, welcome along!

Angron

Welcome along Declan!

The Hill Billy

Herzlich wilkommen Declan!

Liam McPoyle

The Master wrote: »

Story Deco

Is tha Top Deco or Bottom Deco?

5starpool

Dav - I'm assuming those crazy eggs only work for people using the new default skin? On that topic is there any plan to disable the old look skin at all? I know it's not updated, supported, etc, but I still like using it, so curious about any decommissioning plan.

GLaDOS

5starpool wrote: »

Dav - I'm assuming those crazy eggs only work for people using the new default skin? On that topic is there any plan to disable the old look skin at all? I know it's not updated, supported, etc, but I still like using it, so curious about any decommissioning plan.

Was going to ask the same question, I use the old beta so if the heatmap works for it, I imagine it'd be quite different to someone using the default and different again from someone using the original skin.

TheBody

Only 4 posts!! Pfft Newb! Let the hazing begin!!
















Welcome and good luck!!!

Dav

A time will come where we'll simply pull the plug on those old skins - the moment they start causing things to break will probably be it. The Heat Map stuff is not, as far as I know, applied to them.

Gokei

Monitoring movement to "improve" the site, yeah.... sure...

This is one of those black flag things ive been hearing about..

And who is this "Declan" lad, eh?
all a bit too easy if you ask me.

What, no one did ask me?

Oh, carry on so.

username123

The maps sound good. Interesting to know the "science" behind them. I know, for example, that I do not use the site as intended but I do what I do because its quicker for me.

Basically I log in, click on anything at all under latest posts, at which point my old "look and feel" appears and I then can use User CP and New Posts as normal. But whatever thread I click into to get the old look and feel is totally random and I dont care what its about.

The Hill Billy

Gokei wrote: »

Monitoring movement to "improve" the site, yeah.... sure...

This is one of those black flag things ive been hearing about..

And who is this "Declan" lad, eh?
all a bit too easy if you ask me.

You have a point! Just look at his name - Boards.ie: Declan

That's N-S-A backwards. He's a demonic spook!

* runs for the hills "

Khannie

This sounds like it's probably a reduction in privacy and I value privacy quite a bit. Sure one of us had to come out of the woodwork. :P

Are you retaining what individual users do? Or is it individual behaviour removed before you store it? What happens if a user decides they don't like this? Were you not keeping track of what pages individuals were visiting anyway? Does hit count not give you a pretty good idea already?

Important one here - Is there any browser fingerprinting going on? By that I mean let's say a user wants to log out so that they're not tracked. It's still possible to track them based on browser "fingerprint". Are you doing that?

Is there a way to get a list of exactly what you are tracking?

Lastly, is there any way for a user to opt out of this?

5starpool

Dav wrote: »

A time will come where we'll simply pull the plug on those old skins - the moment they start causing things to break will probably be it. The Heat Map stuff is not, as far as I know, applied to them.

When this time comes will you let people know in advance? I'm presuming that this isn't something that has a timeline, even one as vague as mid 2014 or whatever?

username123

Dav wrote: »

A time will come where we'll simply pull the plug on those old skins - the moment they start causing things to break will probably be it. The Heat Map stuff is not, as far as I know, applied to them.

What???? Oh no, let me know when, so I can ready my goodbyes....

Dav

I have no idea when it'll happen, but we'll probably run into a problem that the old skins are causing and just switch them off. I don't see us giving any notice given that we've put people on notice that this will be happening for about three years at this stage

username123

Dav wrote: »

I have no idea when it'll happen, but we'll probably run into a problem that the old skins are causing and just switch them off. I don't see us giving any notice given that we've put people on notice that this will be happening for about three years at this stage

Can you guys tell how many users are still actively using the old skins?

Dav

Going on memory from the last time we made changes, it was less than .5%, but I'd have to confirm that. I'm certain it was a *really* tiny number though.

Eoin

What are the old themes - anything other than the "new beta" one?

I'll really miss the original beta theme.

Boards.ie: Declan

Khannie wrote: »

This sounds like it's probably a reduction in privacy and I value privacy quite a bit. Sure one of us had to come out of the woodwork. :P

Are you retaining what individual users do? Or is it individual behaviour removed before you store it? What happens if a user decides they don't like this? Were you not keeping track of what pages individuals were visiting anyway? Does hit count not give you a pretty good idea already?

Important one here - Is there any browser fingerprinting going on? By that I mean let's say a user wants to log out so that they're not tracked. It's still possible to track them based on browser "fingerprint". Are you doing that?

Is there a way to get a list of exactly what you are tracking?

Lastly, is there any way for a user to opt out of this?

Hi Khannie,

Thanks for your concern, user privacy is something we feel deeply about as well.

We aren't looking at individual user behaviour and there will be no way of tracing back any of the information we are collecting back to individual accounts.

The information we are collecting isn't hugely different from what has been traditionally collected by Google Analytics, it is just presented in a different manner. Here is a list of the type of reports we are getting from this service http://support.crazyegg.com/report-views/

This exercise is more about getting a macro view of user-behaviour on the site then tracking anything you do on a micro-level. We may in the future look to see how individual users interact with the site, but that will be something we will invite users to participate in rather than do remotely.

I'll post the first heatmaps tomorrow so you will be able to see the information we are looking at.

Boards.ie: Declan

The Hill Billy wrote: »

You have a point! Just look at his name - Boards.ie: Declan

That's N-S-A backwards. He's a demonic spook!

* runs for the hills "

Boards.ie: Declan is an anagram for Darned Sociable

thinkabouddit

Khannie

Boards.ie: Declan wrote: »

We aren't looking at individual user behaviour and there will be no way of tracing back any of the information we are collecting back to individual accounts.

Super.

Boards.ie: Declan wrote: »

The information we are collecting isn't hugely different from what has been traditionally collected by Google Analytics

I use ghostery to stop google analytics.

Boards.ie: Declan wrote: »

I'll post the first heatmaps tomorrow so you will be able to see the information we are looking at.

Fair play, thanks.

Welcome to boards btw.

padd b1975

Will it have any impact on the speed at which pages load as users move from forum to forum?

Boards.ie: Declan

padd b1975 wrote: »

Will it have any impact on the speed at which pages load as users move from forum to forum?

No it should have absolutely no impact on page speeds. We are only looking at the homepage at the moment at any rate.

Fr_Dougal

How can someone with only 7 posts be made Product manager?! Blatant nepotism!

Orim

Will the information be released?

The Hill Billy

Boards.ie: Declan wrote: »

Boards.ie: Declan is an anagram for Darned Sociable

thinkabouddit

The beers are on you then!

Czarcasm

Hi Dav, welcome Declan,

Just a quick query and a follow up -

Will you be enabling heat maps on the touch site?

One thing that may skew the stats somewhat is, well, in Opera on mobile, I have different pages added to speed dial for quicker access, so for example to get directly to my PM Inbox, I just open the speed dial in a new tab and click on my PM Inbox, having already set it in the speed dial. This for me is a much faster method than navigating through to PMs on the Touch site in it's current iteration.

I'm not sure the effect this may have on the stats, I wouldn't imagine I'm the only user who uses the site in this way, and I'd actually be curious to see how the Crazy Egg stats handle what it may see as duplicate sessions in separate tabs.

K-9

Czarcasm wrote: »

Hi Dav, welcome Declan,

Just a quick query and a follow up -

Will you be enabling heat maps on the touch site?

One thing that may skew the stats somewhat is, well, in Opera on mobile, I have different pages added to speed dial for quicker access, so for example to get directly to my PM Inbox, I just open the speed dial in a new tab and click on my PM Inbox, having already set it in the speed dial. This for me is a much faster method than navigating through to PMs on the Touch site in it's current iteration.

I'm not sure the effect this may have on the stats, I wouldn't imagine I'm the only user who uses the site in this way, and I'd actually be curious to see how the Crazy Egg stats handle what it may see as duplicate sessions in separate tabs.

I've my user CP set up on speed dial in firefox. You must get a load of pm's to set it up on what is a most used page for me, I feel left out!

returnNull

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

How can someone with only 7 posts be made Product manager?! Blatant nepotism!

check this thread in feedback
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057086072

knucklehead6

returnNull wrote: »

check this thread in feedback
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057086072

Dammit!!! This is what happens when i do that whole get some sleep thing.... I was gonna reference that thread.

Maybe he's a re-reg of Currys PC World Declan?

TouchingVirus

Welcome Declan! I wish you best of luck in the new role, looking forward to seeing the changes you bring

hullaballoo

TouchingVirus wrote: »

...looking forward to seeing the changes you bring

I can't believe you dropped the C-bomb in Feedback! :eek:

Boards.ie: Declan

Czarcasm wrote: »

Hi Dav, welcome Declan,

Just a quick query and a follow up -

Will you be enabling heat maps on the touch site?

One thing that may skew the stats somewhat is, well, in Opera on mobile, I have different pages added to speed dial for quicker access, so for example to get directly to my PM Inbox, I just open the speed dial in a new tab and click on my PM Inbox, having already set it in the speed dial. This for me is a much faster method than navigating through to PMs on the Touch site in it's current iteration.

I'm not sure the effect this may have on the stats, I wouldn't imagine I'm the only user who uses the site in this way, and I'd actually be curious to see how the Crazy Egg stats handle what it may see as duplicate sessions in separate tabs.

Hi Czarcasm,

Good point - While we are generating info for the touchsite, the focus of this run is the web version of the site. I'll be posting the first lot of charts in a bit, you'll see how they reflect behaviour. I don't think you will skew the stats as much as you are working outside the parameters of what we are looking at.

But thanks for raising it - its good to be aware of this kind of user behaviour. And don't worry, we will be looking for lots of feedback and giving lots of notice before we change anything on any of the sites

TouchingVirus

hullaballoo wrote: »

I can't believe you dropped the C-bomb in Feedback! :eek:

I know, but is a product manager who doesn't make changes a product manager?

Myrddin

Welcome along Declan

Pj!

I often click on random unclickable spaces when reading. I sometimes even select text for absolutely no reason.

I have no idea why. It may well be that I am a crazy person.
Sorry in advance for messing up your study.

Penn

Pj! wrote: »

I often click on random unclickable spaces when reading. I sometimes even select text for absolutely no reason.

I have no idea why. It may well be that I am a crazy person.
Sorry in advance for messing up your study.

I do that too, but it's so it sounds like I'm working.

Gordon

TouchingVirus wrote: »

I know, but is a product manager who doesn't make changes a product manager?

That's an expectation manager. The company that I work in employs loads of them.

TrueDub

Gordon wrote: »

That's an expectation manager. The company that I work in employs loads of them.

As opposed to those who make too many changes - they're called product manglers.

nesf

Pj! wrote: »

I often click on random unclickable spaces when reading. I sometimes even select text for absolutely no reason.

I have no idea why. It may well be that I am a crazy person.
Sorry in advance for messing up your study.

I've been highlight and un-highlighting the text I'm reading for years (I can get quite frustrated with those sites with javascript stopping you from selecting texts :P).


I am however certified as a crazy person, so this may not actually be comforting to you...

Pj!

nesf wrote: »

I've been highlight and un-highlighting the text I'm reading for years (I can get quite frustrated with those sites with javascript stopping you from selecting texts :P).


I am however certified as a crazy person, so this may not actually be comforting to you...

Hmmm...

keith16

Will I still be able to click the internet?

Cloud

Sounds great Dav - hello Declan!