Meltdown

gramar

I know some people's reaction to the below news is that they are things that have always happened and it's just that now they are reported more so it seems more prevalent. I'm not so sure. To me they look like increasingly frequent examples of society's slow but progressive meltdown.

Just to reference a few stories I've seen recently:

Yesterday a story about a horse that had been burned to death.
This follows another story about a donkey pushed over a cliff a few weeks back.

A body found in Meath that had been sliced up and scattered around a field.

The Lost Prophets singer and some fans carrying out some shockingly depraved acts.

A woman murdered in Kerry with an axe.

Just this morning a burned body has been found in a sleeping bag.

salacious crumb

Very rarely a news story shocks me, but that Lost Prophets c*nt and the horse burning were two of the worst things I've ever read.

Sunnyisland

gramar wrote: »

I know some people's reaction to the below news is that they are things that have always happened and it's just that now they are reported more so it seems more prevalent. I'm not so sure. To me they look like increasingly frequent examples of society's slow but progressive meltdown.

Just to reference a few stories I've seen recently:

Yesterday a story about a horse that had been burned to death.
This follows another story about a donkey pushed over a cliff a few weeks back.

A body found in Meath that had been sliced up and scattered around a field.

The Lost Prophets singer and some fans carrying out some shockingingly depraved acts.

A woman murdered in Kerry with an axe.

Just this morning a burned body has been found in a sleeping bag.

I do hope that the poor mans body found in the Phoenix park gets as much publicity and media attention as the horse unfortunate death did.

On the op I don't think so, media news stories are in some cases up to the second,It has always being a rough tough world out there,in my opinion the world/Ireland in General is a much safer place than it ever was

Kilgore__Trout

These are all terrible things, but on average, society probably isn't much better or worse than it was 2,000 years ago. We've always had psychopaths, tyrants, slaves, natural disasters, tragedies, and injustice. There's been some good stuff in there too.

The idea that things are getting worse is an old one, at least as old as ancient Greece. We're still here

Local-womanizer

I don't think it's getting worse, I'd say it's more to do with the advancement in the media. Also bad news sell.

gramar

Kilgore__Trout wrote: »

These are all terrible things, but on average, society probably isn't much better or worse than it was 2,000 years ago. We've always had psychopaths, tyrants, slaves, natural disasters, tragedies, and injustice. There's been some good stuff in there too.

The idea that things are getting worse is an old one, at least as old as ancient Greece. We're still here

All kinds of barbaric acts have been carried out since the beginning of time.
The general modernization of society over the last couple of hundred years did a lot to control society with the introduction of laws and the emergence of generally accpeted behaviours.

I think the information age of the last 20 odd years has been a step backwards in terms of law and order. Even though the resources to prevent and apply justice are greater than ever the number of serious crimes seems to be increasing.

Duggy747

Close the week, it's fùcked.

We'll start again on Monday.

General General

End of days, motherf`ckers.

Whenever the news seems bad, I think; WW2.. worldwide, wholesale slaughter, for years, finished up by two nuclear bombs, state-sanctioned, on two cities & a fire-bombing of a third city as a kind of victory lap.

SEPT 23 1989

the horse burners go on to burn men

Jonny7

Actually it's not worse, society (apart from a few execeptions) is on the whole better than it ever has been

Just due to an ever developing media, communications, instant news, worldwide reach and so on more of these incidents are highlighted and reported

We also have a psychological human tendency to focus on bad news

Grayson

Kilgore__Trout wrote: »

These are all terrible things, but on average, society probably isn't much better or worse than it was 2,000 years ago. We've always had psychopaths, tyrants, slaves, natural disasters, tragedies, and injustice. There's been some good stuff in there too.

The idea that things are getting worse is an old one, at least as old as ancient Greece. We're still here

It's a lot better. Slavery is gone, women have the vote (maybe that one was a mistake ), our life expectancy is huge and I'm currently communicating with you through a magic window on my desk.
We live in one of the safest places in one of the safest times in history.

Grayson

gramar wrote: »

Even though the resources to prevent and apply justice are greater than ever the number of serious crimes seems to be increasing.

Statistically they're decreasing. They just seem to be because they get loads of publicity.

gramar

Grayson wrote: »

It's a lot better. Slavery is gone, women have the vote (maybe that one was a mistake ), our life expectancy is huge and I'm currently communicating with you through a magic window on my desk.
We live in one of the safest places in one of the safest times in history.[/QUOTE]

I agree but the point I'm trying to make is that maybe that level of 'safety' has peaked and now we're in decline. Permanent or not I don't know but definitely some kind of a recession as far as safety in society goes.

cali_eire

The availability of news almost as soon as it happens through web, social media and tv has changed how we "experience" events as a society from generations ago. Some of this change is positive as we have access to vast resources at our finger tips but I also feel some of the changes can at times give us a very disjointed view of the world depending on how we consume all this information.

I believe that ugly things have always happened but today I have the ability to know about a lot more of these instances that happened down the road, in another county or in another country from multiple sources very quickly and it can compound sometimes and make me loose a little bit of hope for humanity.

At that point I know I have amerced myself in too much "news" and I try to step back so I also can see there is a lot of genuine goodness that is out there in society. It might be something small like the Dunnes Stores Sales person you scoured the shop yesterday looking for my phone when I dumbly lost it or seeing the San Francisco turn out in their thousands to cheer on "bat kid".

News is great but dont let it jade you and make you afraid of everyone. There is a lot of good out there that can get easily lost in the dramatic headlines of the day.

Frank Black

Kilgore__Trout wrote: »

These are all terrible things, but on average, society probably isn't much better or worse than it was 2,000 years ago.

Seriously?
That's one of the dumbest things I've read on here.
I'd like to send you back in a time machine to spend a week in 'society' 2,000 years ago.

tin79

It only seems that way due to FB, twitter (with associated moral panic) and all the other convenient outlets which let even the dumbest idiots vent to a wide audience.

seamus

tin79 wrote: »

It only seems that way due to FB, twitter (with associated moral panic) and all the other convenient outlets which let even the dumbest idiots vent to a wide audience.

On top of that, traditional media outlets are simply reporting more.

Before the days of internet news, space was limited. You had 30 minutes for the evening news, 20 or 30 pages of white space in a newspaper. So you had to pick and choose what was reported.
Now there's functionally no limit on what can be reported. So there's less QA on what goes out, instead people choose for themselves what they want to read. Turnover is also higher, because you can stick a story on your front page for 4 hours, then remove it and stick something else in its place when it gets stale.

5live

Kilgore__Trout wrote: »

These are all terrible things, but on average, society probably isn't much better or worse than it was 2,000 years ago. We've always had psychopaths, tyrants, slaves, natural disasters, tragedies, and injustice. There's been some good stuff in there too.

The idea that things are getting worse is an old one, at least as old as ancient Greece. We're still here

I was talking to the OH last night about this. 30 years ago murders were rare, so rare that they were television and newspaper lead stories for weeks. Now a murder is lucky to make the lead story and is all but forgotten within a week by society in general.

Its definately a more dangerous place now than 30 years ago:(

mad muffin

I know what evil lurks in the hearts of men

Atlantic Dawn

Yesterday a story about a horse that had been burned to death.
This follows another story about a donkey pushed over a cliff a few weeks back.

Horse was already dead

A body found in Meath that had been sliced up and scattered around a field.

Meltdown alright

The Lost Prophets singer and some fans carrying out some shockingly depraved acts.

Meltdown alright

A woman murdered in Kerry with an axe.

Murdered by her son, contributing factor may have been the wind farm in the hils surrounding their home causing her autistic son distress, may not be an out of the blue meltdown at all.

Just this morning a burned body has been found in a sleeping bag.

Meltdown.

Vito Corleone

I've never been shocked by any news story I've read.

BillyMitchel

No offence OP but have people and animals not been getting butchered and sliced and burned alive since humanity began?

Me?

The world is ****ed because of humans. We are the greediest, vilest species to ever walk this planet. We have no respect for members of our own species or any other species that shares this planet.

We poison our atmosphere to mass produce rubbish, while exploiting the poorest and weakest in doing so. I know I am generalizing and am aware that a very small percentage of the world's population are directly responsible for what is going on in the world but indirectly we are all responsible for the sheer fook up that is Earth.

I read somewhere, I think it might have been here that someone gave someone 2 euro for the toll and they were amazed by the generosity of the act. Have we to applaud this as an act of good because the bar has been set so low.

I don't think there is an act to be carried out that will actually shock me at this stage of my life. We have sunk that low.

renegademaster

Grayson wrote: »

Statistically they're decreasing. They just seem to be because they get loads of publicity.

or scamming the stats more like

D1stant

5live wrote: »

I was talking to the OH last night about this. 30 years ago murders were rare, so rare that they were television and newspaper lead stories for weeks. Now a murder is lucky to make the lead story and is all but forgotten within a week by society in general.

Its definately a more dangerous place now than 30 years ago:(

No. This is a myth. Western Society is getting safer all the time. There is evidence for this, if you want to look.

Cousin it

Grayson wrote: »

It's a lot better. Slavery is gone, women have the vote (maybe that one was a mistake ), our life expectancy is huge and I'm currently communicating with you through a magic window on my desk.
We live in one of the safest places in one of the safest times in history.

There's more people currently in slavery than ever crossed the Atlantic from Africa.

http://www.ted.com/talks/lisa_kristine_glimpses_of_modern_day_slavery.html

http://www.freetheslaves.net/page.aspx?pid=348

theblaqueguy

Cousin it wrote: »

There's more people currently in slavery than ever crossed the Atlantic from Africa.

Free my brothers and sisters

Yellow121

Back in the day life wasn't worth anything. People used to die for any reason. Fights to the death were common occurance, people headed off to battle all the time. The World has gone soft.

HansHolzel

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1129/490023-horse-death/

The horse was dead with a while.

Someone decided to cremate it.

An acorn fell on your head, the sky isn't falling in.

Judgement Day

D1stant wrote: »

No. This is a myth. Western Society is getting safer all the time. There is evidence for this, if you want to look.

But you can't be bothered to supply any links. :rolleyes: There's no point in saying life was more dangerous back when our ancestors lived in caves. It's a simple fact that compared to 30/40 years ago Ireland is a much less safe place today. Back then there was no drug problem/gang violence/random violence and homicides were extremely rare. Old people were generally left alone - even by criminals.

5live

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Horse was already dead

Meltdown alright


Meltdown alright

Murdered by her son, contributing factor may have been the wind farm in the hils surrounding their home causing her autistic son distress, may not be an out of the blue meltdown at all.

Meltdown.

Source?

xploderz

If you think modern society is sick, you should look up some of the medieval torture devices they used, for example:

The Brazen Bull was a hollow brass statue crafted to resemble a real bull. Victims we­re placed inside, usually with their tongues cut out first. The door was shut, sealing them in. Fires would then be lit around the bull. As the victim succumbed to the searing heat inside, he would thrash about and scream in agony. The movements and sounds, muted by the bull's mass, made the apparatus appear alive, the sounds inside like those of a real bull. This effect created additional amusement for the audience, and served the added benefit of distancing them from the brutality of the torture, since they couldn't directly see the victim.

RiverOfLove

It's a world I don't want to be a part of anymore.

Atlantic Dawn

5live wrote: »

Source?

RTÉ news tonight showed big wind farm overlooking the house. Simply Google Wind Farms Autism for cases of distress caused by them.

Atlantic Dawn

RiverOfLove wrote: »

It's a world I don't want to be a part of anymore.

The Chinese are going to the moon soon, might be a chance to escape, give the embassy a shout...

http://ie.china-embassy.org/eng/

Sunnyisland

RiverOfLove wrote: »

It's a world I don't want to be a part of anymore.

Wo there riveroflove there are a lot more good things and people in the world than bad,there is a lot more good in the world than bad,

Bad news sells good news does not, keep on in here it is worth it.

ElleEm

Duggy747 wrote: »

Close the week, it's fùcked.

We'll start again on Monday.

I am not joking when I say this post almost killed me!

Just breathed in water as I was reading it, had a choking fit, snorted water out my nose all over my tshirt and took a good minute to start breathing normally again.

That would have been a terrible news story!

D1stant

Judgement Day wrote: »

But you can't be bothered to supply any links. :rolleyes: There's no point in saying life was more dangerous back when our ancestors lived in caves. It's a simple fact that compared to 30/40 years ago Ireland is a much less safe place today. Back then there was no drug problem/gang violence/random violence and homicides were extremely rare. Old people were generally left alone - even by criminals.

Ah look. Firstly I couldn't be bothered supplying links. Research it if you care. If we are localising things to Ireland you might be right, but I suspect a lot of it is due to increased population and the change in media.

Then again if we go back 30 years hundreds of people per year were dying in Sectarian violence, 60 years ago WWII... 93 years ago war of independence...Gulp back to the famine

Compared to any of those times, gangland crime is a statistical pimple. We are living in clover chief. Appreciate it.

gramar

D1stant wrote: »

Ah look. Firstly I couldn't be bothered supplying links. Research it if you care. If we are localising things to Ireland you might be right, but I suspect a lot of it is due to increased population and the change in media.

Then again if we go back 30 years hundreds of people per year were dying in Sectarian violence, 60 years ago WWII... 93 years ago war of independence...Gulp back to the famine

Compared to any of those times, gangland crime is a statistical pimple. We are living in clover chief. Appreciate it.

I appreciate your points about the deaths caused by war and famine but my original post was referring to the random acts of violence and indecency that are being carried out by society in general. Being Irish what happens locally tends to hit home more but it's prevalent everywhere.

Nowadays the term rat race seems to be more apt than ever. The growing population means the competition for resources, space, freedom is greater than ever etc There is less patience and tolerance. Everyone harps on about individual rights and freedom but so often if a person wants to exercise individual rights then someones else have to be sacrificed.

looking_around

RiverOfLove wrote: »

It's a world I don't want to be a part of anymore.

That's silly.

Equal to the amount of crime is charity work helping people, saving animals lives etc.
Most people are considerate and genuinely nice.

The world is not just evil. Yes evil things happen, but you can't look away from all the good just because there's some bad incidents.
And if you really don't want to be a "part of it". Then do your best to live for making lives around you better.

There's a wonderful satisfaction from being a part of doing good in society.

caustic 1

I remember as a young girl being shocked whenever hearing of a murder in Ireland because it was a rare thing. Now I am rarely shocked almost immune to murders. It's sad to say that I think only if it happened close to me now or to a family member would I be shocked.

Balaclava1991

It was a lot worse years ago during the Troubles.

I can remember two RUC men were togged out for a charity run somewhere in Northern Ireland when they were shot dead point blank in front of parents and children.
There was another incident when a caretaker or cleaner who worked at a army base or police station got killed by a booby trap bomb in his car and his little daughter got blown out of the wreck and impaled on railings.
At the same time that Ray Houghton scored that amazing goal against Italy in the 1994 World Cup loyalist gunmen burst into a bar and gunned down the drinkers watching the game including an elderly man.
I can remember as a kid how 3 IRA people were gunned down by the SAS, then when the coffins came back to Ireland a loyalist opened fire on the mourners and threw grenades killing several people and then at one of the funerals of the victims two British soldiers drove their car into the crowd and were dragged out and lynched.
Worse there were people on all sides cheering what was going on.

Maybe this kind of senseless violence is more shocking now because psychopaths have no politics to justify randomly murdering people because they get off on it.

Some individuals have no consciences, no capacity to understand the pain they inflict on other people and get sexual enjoyment out of torturing and killing other living entities. I think these creatures - I don't call them humans - are a genetic throwback to a time before civilization when there was an evolutionary advantage to being brutal and pitiless. Unfortunately their genes have survived.

You can't train these people to be humans. Their evil natures are innate and the same as their pancreas or their kidneys or their liver or arms and legs.

You can only lock them up and keep them away from society.

The majority of people are good, are honest and want to help other people. Just because there are a minority of sick demented people does not mean the world is going down a sinkhole.

5live

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

RTÉ news tonight showed big wind farm overlooking the house. Simply Google Wind Farms Autism for cases of distress caused by them.

The wind farm is miles away from the area. Does the google search specify a distance the wind farms has to be from a murder for their presence to be statistically signifigant?

Maybe the presence of cattle nearby was a factor? Grass? Rushes? Turnips? Telephone wires?

AH has found a new low. There is a wonan lying dead in a morgue. Using a tragedy like this to garner support for your own beliefs is beyond what even the worst political party in this country would consider.

looking_around

caustic 1 wrote: »

I remember as a young girl being shocked whenever hearing of a murder in Ireland because it was a rare thing. Now I am rarely shocked almost immune to murders. It's sad to say that I think only if it happened close to me now or to a family member would I be shocked.

doesn't mean murder was rare. Just that it was less reported/evidence found etc.

Statistics show crime is less now.

It also could be higher population.

Basically, say 1 in a 1000 people murdered. If you only have a 1000 people, then it's only when person. When you have 5000 people though, thats 5 people.

But doesn't mean murder has increased as such.
__

I do think we hear alot more than we used to, and thats led to desensitisation. and the idea that things are really dangerous now.

ScumLord

Judgement Day wrote: »

Back then there was no drug problem/

Because drugs weren't illegal for a start, there's plenty of stories of well known Irish figures like Yeats using drugs.

gang violence/

Gang violence only came about after they were given the business of selling drugs. Before drug criminalisation an organised gang didn't have the funds to sustain itself.

random violence and homicides were extremely rare.

Random violence like enslaving women for getting pregnant? Random violence like beating people for their believes, Beating children on a daily basis (happened right up to the 80s were I was beat day in, day out by the teachers).

The fact is Ireland was a borderline fascist state where the church used fear and oppression to keep people in constant fear of being ousted by their own community.

Old people were generally left alone - even by criminals.

Old people lived with their relations. We all lived with our relations.

Modern cities are more to blame I think. Too many people crammed into the same space, you don't know any of your neighbours so their all disposable.

thegreatgonzo

Judgement Day wrote: »

But you can't be bothered to supply any links. :rolleyes: There's no point in saying life was more dangerous back when our ancestors lived in caves. It's a simple fact that compared to 30/40 years ago Ireland is a much less safe place today. Back then there was no drug problem/gang violence/random violence and homicides were extremely rare. Old people were generally left alone - even by criminals.

But 30 years or so ago there was absolute butchery going on in the north of Ireland.

Judgement Day

thegreatgonzo wrote: »

But 30 years or so ago there was absolute butchery going on in the north of Ireland.

So was the war in Vietnam but you're missing my point, whether deliberately or not, and for the vast majority of people (in the 26 counties) life was a damn sight safer than it is today.

thegreatgonzo

Judgement Day wrote: »

So was the war in Vietnam but you're missing my point, whether deliberately or not, and for the vast majority of people (in the 26 counties) life was a damn sight safer than it is today.

I didn't feel safe about visiting the north I was terrified at the prospect! Now I feel safe about going anywhere in my own country.
When I was 10 I had nightmares about a girl called Deirdre Mulcahy who was beaten to death with a hammer and sexually assaulted in Cork. I recently found out that in the 60's, a woman a few villages over from me killed her husband. With an axe. When I was 6 in the 1980's, 10 miles from where I lived, a man just randomly stabbed to death an old pensioner in his home one sunday afternoon.
That's just the top of my head stuff, I'm sure I could go on.
Bad **** happens.

Eight Ball

salacious crumb wrote: »

Very rarely a news story shocks me, but that Lost Prophets c*nt and the horse burning were two of the worst things I've ever read.

A horse getting burned is one of the worst things you've ever read?? It's a bloody horse ffs.

gramar

thegreatgonzo wrote: »

I didn't feel safe about visiting the north I was terrified at the prospect! Now I feel safe about going anywhere in my own country.
When I was 10 I had nightmares about a girl called Deirdre Mulcahy who was beaten to death with a hammer and sexually assaulted in Cork. I recently found out that in the 60's, a woman a few villages over from me killed her husband. With an axe. When I was 6 in the 1980's, 10 miles from where I lived, a man just randomly stabbed to death an old pensioner in his home one sunday afternoon.
That's just the top of my head stuff, I'm sure I could go on.
Bad **** happens.

Thats like what Caustic 1 was saying a few posts back. Back then things stood out becasue they didn't happen that often. Now there's a daily stream of murder and violence reported.

In 1950 there were 6 murders. In 2012 there were 53.

I've no doubt that the murder rate was higher hundreds of years ago before proper law and order was in place but my point refers to the last 20-30 years where I think there's been a steady increase in all types of serious crime.

dd972

I hate Billy Joel's stuff, but 'We didn't start the fire' is the only tune he's done that makes sense.