WWE and the "Wait And See Where It Goes" fan attitude

B.A._Baracus

LOTD wrote: »

WWE 20 years ago was fairly bad in all fairness bar a few guys like Michaels, Taker and Hart.

I think this post captures WWE and wrestling in a nutshell, people get really nostalgic about wrestling. Holding a certain era on a pedestal. Whatever about the product itself, there is a lot of talent on the current roster a lot of it being underused though.

Talk of the old territories, though I'm willing to bet not many here saw the glory days of the 70's and 80's of American territories. It's been dead since the late 80's.

WWE has no competitor of course they are going to play it safe, but they are doing great business at the same time

I mentioned the territories because its well known that it was good business sense to move on when a wrestler got stale. But where will guys like Orton or Big Show go now? :P No other promotion that's going to pay the same if not more. Competition brings out the best in so many ways.

But yup, WWE are raking it in Can't take that away from them.
But since we are bringing business into it. How come WWE doesnt pull in the same audience as mania time, all year around? It's well noted that WWE gets more a casual audience around mania but also 'returning' audience.

B.A._Baracus

gnfnrhead wrote: »

There are literally hundreds of other promotions out there if you are willing to look for them. The grew out of it argument is bullshit when the only thing most people have watched is WWE.

I watched WCW and ECW (original) when they were still active. I am a wrestling fan... not a "WWE fan"

But you are wrong to call it bull****. You grew out of playing with action man didnt you? ... people grow out of going to clubs. People stop listeng to certain bands. Peoples tastes change.

LOTD

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I mentioned the territories because its well known that it was good business sense to move on when a wrestler got stale. But where will guys like Orton or Big Show go now? :P No other promotion that's going to pay the same if not more. Competition brings out the best in so many ways.

But yup, WWE are raking it in Can't take that away from them.
But since we are bringing business into it. How come WWE doesnt pull in the same audience as mania time, all year around? It's well noted that WWE gets more a casual audience around mania but also 'returning' audience.

Competition is good, in fairness they all bankrupted themselves I think Vince McMahon must one of the few promoters/owner of a wrestling company who hasn't gone bust.

Like any major star they go stale after a while, WWE problem is not making superstars like they use to. So new people coming into the mix isn't really happening anymore.

Mania is like a heritage event it's going to pull in bigger numbers, like the World Cup or the Superbowl, if you want to use sporting events. Plus Rock, Lesnar and The Undertaker are huge names that people want to see. But this is the main problem not creating enough new stars

gnfnrhead

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I watched WCW and ECW (original) when they were still active. I am a wrestling fan... not a "WWE fan"

But you are wrong to call it bull****. You grew out of playing with action man didnt you? ... people grow out of going to clubs. People stop listeng to certain bands. Peoples tastes change.

No...... :pac:

If you now only watch WWE, you're a WWE fan. Doesnt matter what you watched 15 years ago.

B.A._Baracus

gnfnrhead wrote: »

No...... :pac:

If you now only watch WWE, you're a WWE fan. Doesnt matter what you watched 15 years ago.

You're acting like a nerd who views video gaming - "oh man, you aint a REAL gamer if you just play xbox" :pac: Seriously, what gives dude? how old are you? :pac:
Oh and if you read my other post you would have seen that I struggle to watch WWE now. Thanks for reading what I said before quoting it :pac:

gnfnrhead

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

You're acting like a nerd who views video gaming - "oh man, you aint a REAL gamer if you just play xbox" :pac: Seriously, what gives dude? how old are you? :pac:
Oh and if you read my other post you would have seen that I struggle to watch WWE now. Thanks for reading what I said before quoting it :pac:

What "gives" is you posted about WWE as if all of wrestling was the exact same as it. You didnt grow out of wrestling, you grew out of WWE. Major difference. Dont be throwing all of wrestling into the WWE basket.

riffmongous

I wish WWE was a proper tv show then it might have to start making some f***ing sense. It's really mind boggling how bad the writing is most of the time, even with a kids show I would expect some more continuity.

And I think there clearly is a series structure, long term between the big 4 ppvs and even really each month between regular PPVs is a mini series that deserves better writing, instead 90% of the cast take part in random matches or job and how in a 3 hour long program they cant spend from 30 secs -5 minutes giving some context to a midcard match is ridiculous, but I guess then they couldn't do an ad break every 10 minutes :rolleyes:

Mr.Nice Guy

I disagree with the majority of this person's complaints and I would have thought the wait and see approach was pretty obvious: the biggest show of the year is Wrestlemania. It stands to reason that people wish to wait and see what the plan is then before damning them.

I'm of the view that the long-term plan is for Bryan to face Hunter at Mania. I think a lot of others have said the same thing. If that doesn't happen I would say it's extremely dumb, but I don't think there's anything wrong in saying let's wait and see what happens until then.

The WWE have worked several storylines very well and had situations where the journey and ending were equally satisfying. Off the top of my head, Rock vs Austin in 2001, the Taker/HBK feuds, HHH vs Batistia...

Frankly some fans aren't going to be content unless and until Bryan and Punk are beating all before them. There has to be some give and take, though.

In late '02/03, Lesnar lost the title to Big Show and Angle if I recall correctly was in a tag angle with Benoit. Jumping ahead to the Road to Mania and Angle and Lesnar were set on a main event title feud that I recall they handled with pretty impressive care, and which resulted in a good match (Lesnar dive aside).

It stands to reason that the pay-off for this whole authority angle is for Hunter and Steph to get their comeuppance at Mania. If that is the plan, and I suspect it is, I don't have an issue with the heels being dominant at this stage.

If, however, they go down some route where Rock or Taker is taking on the authority and Punk and Bryan are left at the wayside then yes I would have to say it has been a waste. I would reserve judgement for now, though.

gnfnrhead

The Angle comparison isn't really valid. He wasn't feuding with Lesnar, then tagging with Benoit, before going back for more. He was feuding with Lesnar from somewhere around November as best I can recall. He didn't go down before going back up for the finish, he just went up and up. Bryan was in a perfect spot to be the number one guy. Now he is wasted trying to save the Wyatt's from being complete and utter failures, with hardly a mention of his main event run.

gnfnrhead

gnfnrhead wrote: »

The Angle comparison isn't really valid. He wasn't feuding with Lesnar, then tagging with Benoit, before going back for more. He was feuding with Lesnar from somewhere around November as best I can recall. He didn't go down before going back up for the finish, he just went up and up. Bryan was in a perfect spot to be the number one guy. Now he is wasted trying to save the Wyatt's from being complete and utter failures, with hardly a mention of his main event run.

Bryan will win the rumble, and get his pay off at mania....

chopperbyrne

Roman Reigns is the only guy I see winning the Rumble, going on to beat Orton or Punk at Mania.

Bryan will face Hunter in a high profile match and beat him clean.

Cena will job to Taker.

Whichever of Punk/Orton isn't in the title match will be in a match with a returning star like Rock or Lesnar.

Lord TSC

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I disagree with the majority of this person's complaints and I would have thought the wait and see approach was pretty obvious: the biggest show of the year is Wrestlemania. It stands to reason that people wish to wait and see what the plan is then before damning them.

I get your point and in fairness you're covering yourself by saying "If this happens, then get annoyed".

But this problem isn't just limited to the feuds you mention or Mania season. It's year round up and down the card; characters get randomly pushed and then jobbed out, stories go nowhere all year round, and there's no reason to have faith in WWE when it comes to "Wait and see". Mania usually comes good on the night, but for the 8 months after Mania, shows go all over the place.

It's not just about seeing "Bryan and Punk are beating all before them"; that's very unfair. I think what people want is anyone getting a sustained, logical push.

I was thrilled last year when Ryback was getting pushed up the card; while it may have been too much too quick, it was something new and fresh....and then for some reason, WWE just gave up on him. People win the money in the bank and go on massive losing streaks. They might win the title but usually they just continue to look bad. WWE identify someone as their possible next big star, start on them and then just abandon the project.

It's not about wanting Punk and Bryan at the top; it's about wanting someone new at the top, built up logically and credibly. And it's about being teased with the possibility time and time again, only for WWE to fall back on the likes of Cena and HHH and give up on whoever they were starting to push.

I'd give anything to see Reigns get a Batista style push between now and Mania....

B.A._Baracus

gnfnrhead wrote: »

What "gives" is you posted about WWE as if all of wrestling was the exact same as it. You didnt grow out of wrestling, you grew out of WWE. Major difference. Dont be throwing all of wrestling into the WWE basket.

WTF?
Reread my post ( post #28 )
I kept saying WWE, WWE, WWE ... but somehow your mind read "all of wrestling" instead of wwe...

I honestly thought you just misinterpreted my words. Nope, i think you are reading what you want to read.

riffmongous

I think Ryback is a prime example of the problems with WWE, pushed too soon, he went on a ppv losing streak that for some reason had him lose to Mark Henry at Wrestlemania, only to hit his finisher AFTER the match???
He was then booked against Cena for some reason, had a strong first attempt, then lost, then continued to lose, was given a bitch-heel gimmick for a few weeks, then a bully that didnt really do anything, then jobbed, then pushed and made a Paul Heyman guy, then very quickly jobbed again.

And as for Ziggler.. the only logical explanations are that management is punishing them, or the non Cena/Orton creative department is a team of monkeys frantically hammering away on their type writers

GTR63

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Roman Reigns is the only guy I see winning the Rumble, going on to beat Orton or Punk at Mania.

Fucking love Roman Reigns but I hope around Mania he is feuding with Ambrose, don`t want him to be given too much too soon.

Sirsok wrote: »

Bryan will win the rumble, and get his pay off at mania....

For me beating Cena clean at SummerSlam is a way bigger deal than beating the semi retired HHH at Mania

Lord TSC

GTR63 wrote: »

Fucking love Roman Reigns but I hope around Mania he is feuding with Ambrose, don`t want him to be given too much too soon.

Don't want them to rush The Shield's split. If anything, I'd quite like to see Reigns win the title while still part of the group, have the group do a run together with the title, and then slowly split Reigns away from the other two ala Batista and Evolution.