How do I obtain a third teaching subject having already qualified?

SDowling

Hi,
I am a qualified secondary school teacher. I have found it hard to obtain consistent work since qualifying so I am looking into adding a 3rd subject to my qualification. Does anybody know how I go about this please? I have already completed the P.G.D.E. and am registered with the teaching council so it is just a case of adding an additional subject to my qualification. A 1 year course would be preferable. I have researched it but have fallen flat on information. Any information would be really appreciated. Thank you.

rainbowtrout

It depends on what subject you are interested in adding and also what you have done in your original degree. You'll have to give a bit more information.

SDowling

I'm qualified to teach English and Classical Studies, 3 year joint major at undergrad and studied in P.G.D.E. I am unsure of which additional subject to add. History, Religion and Geography have all been recommended to me. I am also looking into IT on the side. I definitely need an extra subject as Classics is really holding me back. Thank you for your reply

rainbowtrout

A number of people on here have mentioned doing English or History through Oscail.ie (DCU).

It might help if you already have credits from your first year of your degree to count towards qualification.

Powerhouse

SDowling wrote: »

I'm qualified to teach English and Classical Studies, 3 year joint major at undergrad and studied in P.G.D.E. I am unsure of which additional subject to add. History, Religion and Geography have all been recommended to me. I am also looking into IT on the side. I definitely need an extra subject as Classics is really holding me back. Thank you for your reply

Computers is not a subject in post-primary schools and would be insignificant in terms of initial employability I'd say. Of the other subjects you have mentioned Geography is by quite a distance the most popular at Leaving Cert level - it has almost twice as many sits as History. That fact might be worth considering in any pursuit of an extra subject. But if you want just a one-year course you will be severely restricted.

SDowling

Thank you both for your replies. I have emailed teaching council regarding a list of recognised courses as I can't find any information on their website. I think I must complete a Higher Diploma in Arts for chosen additional subject? Information is sketchy though. I definitely think there is a shift/focus on IT in schools right now so I am eager to that on the side along with additional subject as I think it will add weight to C.V. . It's just quite frustrating as I'm struggling to get a job but I know a lot more are in the same boat. Do you know if it is the Higher Diploma in Arts that I need to complete? Thanks a mil

Seamo87

SDowling wrote: »

Thank you both for your replies. I have emailed teaching council regarding a list of recognised courses as I can't find any information online. I think I must complete a Higher Diploma in Arts for chosen additional subject? Information is sketchy though. I definitely think there is a shift/focus on IT in schools right now so I am eager to that on the side along with additional subject as I think it will add weight to C.V. . It's just quite frustrating as I'm struggling to get a job but I know a lot more are in the same boat. Do you know if it is the Higher Diploma in Arts that I need to complete? Thanks a mil

Have you tried the "open university"? I don't know if they'd have what your looking for, but it's worth a try.

DK man

Resource teaching course should help considerably and maybe Tefl to a lesser extent

U need to also offer sport or drama or something like that.

But teaching jobs are very hard to come by no matter what u have

Best of luck

HansHolzel

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Oscail.ie (DCU).

Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate.

Dante, Inferno

readystudypass

1 year part-time course to qualify in religion. Are you near maynooth? Says on the website still accepting applications for 2013/14 but that may be out of date

http://www.maynoothcollege.ie/courses/diplomas/hdiptheo.shtml

Chris68

Powerhouse wrote: »

Computers is not a subject in post-primary schools and would be insignificant in terms of initial employability I'd say.

Computers is currently a compulsory core subject in the Leaving Cert Applied. It is also possible to do ICT as a specialist subject in LCA. The new JC (assuming it goes ahead) will also have a computer course. Some schools are currently piloting it.

whiteandlight

I would highly doubt though that the new JC course will lead to anyone being "hired" for a course in computers. It will be introduced in schools only if there is someone in the school willing/able to teach it.

Powerhouse

Chris68 wrote: »

Computers is currently a compulsory core subject in the Leaving Cert Applied. It is also possible to do ICT as a specialist subject in LCA. The new JC (assuming it goes ahead) will also have a computer course. Some schools are currently piloting it.

In fairness I don't think any of this changes the significance of IT in terms of employability. In my own school (which incidentally is a pilot school for the new JC - and computers has not merited mention yet) any IT is done by an existing teacher with some skills in that area. It would never be significant in employing anyone specifically as far as I am aware. That's why I would not advise someone to pursue it as distinct from an alternative subject. But after all that maybe it's the way to go.

Chris68

I never recommended that OP pursue IT. I was just correcting some misinformation given. I myself have 5 recognised subjects (including IT) and still I've made the decision to get out of teaching due to lack of job opportunities. I'm not about to recommend anyone go into teaching. Sad as that may be.

Rebelheart

This monthly question should be a sticky now.

There are numerous threads on this forum about how to add a subject. Try "Higher Diploma in Arts"

Google results for "Higher Diploma in Arts" and "UCD"

gubbie

If I were you I'd try and stick to a topic that was along the lines of English,

I see IT going down the lines of computer programming soon enough, of which many of the upcoming Maths and Science teachers having experience of.

If you'd done any Maths in your first year of teaching you could do an Open University course to get that.

Powerhouse

Chris68 wrote: »

I never recommended that OP pursue IT. I was just correcting some misinformation given. I myself have 5 recognised subjects (including IT) and still I've made the decision to get out of teaching due to lack of job opportunities. I'm not about to recommend anyone go into teaching. Sad as that may be.

To be honest I think in the context of the thread it was fairly clear that the question was recommendation of a worthwhile extra subject. From that perspective highlighting IT as a subject in the LCA was in itself misleading. Certainly in any school I worked in or am familiar with it would be an irrelevance to employment prospects and LCA is far from being universally provided. I would not necessarily recommend against people trying to get into teaching, but if they are counting the like of IT as one of their subjects then they might as well disregard it. That was the basis of my 'misinformation'.

Chris68

Powerhouse wrote: »

Computers is not a subject in post-primary schools and would be insignificant in terms of initial employability I'd say.

The misinformation I was referring to was your statement that Computers is NOT a subject - when it is. OP has expressed an interest in teaching IT. You misinformed her.

Powerhouse

Chris68 wrote: »

The misinformation I was referring to was your statement that Computers is NOT a subject - when it is. OP has expressed an interest in teaching IT. You misinformed her.

I am aware of the misinformation you are talking about - there was no clarification necessary.

The point I was making is that this utterly misses the point and that in the context of employability IT is about as useful as a chocolate fireguard. Pedantic observations about an extreme minority pursuit such as the LCA (less than 2 per cent of LC students) which also potentially includes 'hair and beauty' - not exactly a big seller as a teaching subject but as you would no doubt point out is a Leaving Cert subject- as a module are grand as far as they go i.e. being right irrespective of the context.

But to state, without qualification or context, that IT is a Leaving Cert subject as if it has parity with Maths or Geography is also to misinform, I would respectfully suggest. Anyone who acquires an extra subject on no more solid a basis that that it is a module in the LCA might as well head for the dole queue as apply for a job. As someone with five registered subjects yourself who is not teaching I'd have thought you'd have been especially wary of cavalier advice about extra subjects.

spurious

Regardless of people's opinions about LCA and its availability, IT is a subject offered in some Irish schools. Not enough to go looking for a permanent post in, but a subject nonetheless.

That needed to be corrected in case anyone uses this thread as a reference in the future.

Powerhouse

spurious wrote: »

Regardless of people's opinions about LCA and its availability, IT is a subject offered in some Irish schools. Not enough to go looking for a permanent post in, but a subject nonetheless.

That needed to be corrected in case anyone uses this thread as a reference in the future.

It may have needed to be corrected but it is disingenuous not to put that observation in context. It's rather like the 'fact' - pointed out by people occasionally when it suits an argument - that Maths is not compulsory. Technically it is not compulsory but it would be disingenuous not to acknowledge that it will be offered as a non-option subject in probably every school. I think the context that the LCA is a minority pursuit is just as important to point out precisely because people (looking for employment) might use the thread as a reference in the future. Nuances are often more important than dry facts.

Incidentally (and your claim on this is the main reason I replied to your post) I offered no opinion on the LCA. The course is offered in my school and it seems to be good for the students doing it. But I can offer no informed specific opinion on the content of the course other than that observation. On the whole it has certainly helped with discipline of some of the students who created havoc in previous times but seem happier in LCA. But I certainly did not denigrate it. My reference to the 'hair and beauty' module was to emphasise how outside the mainstream LCA modules can be and as such how misleading references to it in terms of emplyment can be.

I did comment on the small numbers countrywide doing it (ref. - examinations.ie) because again that was for the benefit of anyone that might use this thread as a reference in the future as it is important that people are aware that spending time pursuing an IT course with a view to securing employment teaching computers to an LCA class might be time more beneficially spent studying a more mainstream subject. However, my reference to the numbers doing LCA are documented fact and not opinion.

My school is in its second year offering LCA and not one extra teacher was employed (even on 'hours' - forget 'permanent') as a consequence so I am acutely conscious of that when I am trying to put IT in context as a teaching option. There are already too many people with at least one unviable subject who seek to rememdy that by studying another unviable subject. They are entitled to honesty and not just 'facts' I think.

seavill

I don't really want to get into it with you as your long replies contradicting everyone are getting repetitive however in "SOME" schools IT is offered to more than just LCA's.
Before you jump down my throat as well, I am not for one second saying that IT will create thousands of jobs etc. I am simply pointing out the fact that in some schools IT is taught to more than just LCA's.
In my school IT is taught to all first years for the entire year (5 class groups), along with TYs 5th years and 6th years (Non LCA students). They can get extra marks for a particular college for doing it for LC.

Powerhouse

seavill wrote: »

I don't really want to get into it with you as your long replies contradicting everyone are getting repetitive however in "SOME" schools IT is offered to more than just LCA's.
Before you jump down my throat as well, I am not for one second saying that IT will create thousands of jobs etc. I am simply pointing out the fact that in some schools IT is taught to more than just LCA's.
In my school IT is taught to all first years for the entire year (5 class groups), along with TYs 5th years and 6th years (Non LCA students). They can get extra marks for a particular college for doing it for LC.

Not sure why you are taking such a needlessly defensive tone. Incidentally I replied to two people - not 'everyone'. And am I not entitled to contradict people....................???

But let's get to the bottom line here for once - would you advise the OP to pursue IT as an extra teaching subject or not? It doesn't really matter at the end of the day what your school or my school does - some schools will teach Latin, others won't. None of that makes the OP more employable.

P.S. It was Chris68 who made the reference to IT being offered to LCAs - not me. So your correction is aimed at the wrong person.

teacherhead

seavill wrote: »

I don't really want to get into it with you as your long replies contradicting everyone are getting repetitive however in "SOME" schools IT is offered to more than just LCA's.
Before you jump down my throat as well, I am not for one second saying that IT will create thousands of jobs etc. I am simply pointing out the fact that in some schools IT is taught to more than just LCA's.
In my school IT is taught to all first years for the entire year (5 class groups), along with TYs 5th years and 6th years (Non LCA students). They can get extra marks for a particular college for doing it for LC.

that would be the case in my own school also but the teachers who deliver the subject are those with knowledge and experience in ict. We have no teacher on staff with a qualification in IT.

seavill

Powerhouse wrote: »

Not sure why you are taking such a needlessly defensive tone. Incidentally I replied to two people - not 'everyone'. And am I not entitled to contradict people....................???

But let's get to the bottom line here for once - would you advise the OP to pursue IT as an extra teaching subject or not? It doesn't really matter at the end of the day what your school or my school does - some schools will teach Latin, others won't. None of that makes the OP more employable.

How they do it in my school is relevant as it backs up the point I was making, just because it doesn't suit the point you are making does not make it irrelevant

The OP said they were looking into 3 subjects with IT on the side so if someone was thinking as doing it as an extra on top of a 3rd subject yes I would recommend it.
My personal opinion is that it will grow in many more schools with the new JC so it will be an addition to their CV if they have it. I would disagree with you in saying that it won't make the OP more employable.
I think this is incorrect. Yes they won't get employed as an IT teacher full time but they are not looking at that. Having someone properly qualified in IT with other subjects to back it it would be advantageous to have in a school should the principal be into IT or looking at it as a possibility with the new JC or the way I described it in my school.

So I would have to disagree with your posts above

seavill

teacherhead wrote: »

that would be the case in my own school also but the teachers who deliver the subject are those with knowledge and experience in ict. We have no teacher on staff with a qualification in IT.

Yes as you will see with my last post above I am not saying this would make a person employable as an IT teacher full time, that is not what the OP was saying if people read back to their 2nd post.
It would be helpful to have on the CV if it was an additional option. Obviously the other subject is what you will be applying for a job with but it is certainly an extra that many won't have.

teacherhead

seavill wrote: »

Yes as you will see with my last post above I am not saying this would make a person employable as an IT teacher full time, that is not what the OP was saying if people read back to their 2nd post.
It would be helpful to have on the CV if it was an additional option. Obviously the other subject is what you will be applying for a job with but it is certainly an extra that many won't have.

im simply making the point that even though ict is offered in my school as a subject that does not mean that we are hiring ict teachers.

im not interested in getting into a back and forth just giving the facts from my perspective.

re the new JC being heavy on ICT i don't buy it for a minute. The will be plenty of googling and wording and printing but that's about it for the majority of students in my view.

the talk about coding etc is all fine but if you put it up there as an optional short course you will have very few students picking it - its Latin declension for the 21st century. You love it or hate it. It will only be compulsory in schools that use it as a selling point and it is on This point that it will be unsuccessful in my view.

Powerhouse

seavill wrote: »

yes I would recommend it.

Now that wasn't too hard was it? There are too many 'ifs', 'buts' and 'I thinks', and suppositions about the future about your recommendation for the sake of someone looking to improve employment prospects right now to my mind anyway. For example I don't expect that in practice the new JC will as all-singing all-dancing as many think - schools simply won't be able to employ teachers to teach everything dreamed up. But at least you managed to make the argument without personalising your reply. Fair play.

seavill

Powerhouse wrote: »

Now that wasn't too hard was it? There are too many 'ifs', 'buts' and 'I thinks', and suppositions about the future about your recommendation for the sake of someone looking to improve employment prospects right now to my mind anyway. For example I don't expect that in practice the new JC will as all-singing all-dancing as many think - schools simply won't be able to employ teachers to teach everything dreamed up. But at least you managed to make the argument without personalising your reply. Fair play.

??????????

seavill

teacherhead wrote: »

im simply making the point that even though ict is offered in my school as a subject that does not mean that we are hiring ict teachers.

That is why twice I said

seavill wrote: »

Yes as you will see with my last post above I am not saying this would make a person employable as an IT teacher full time, that is not what the OP was saying if people read back to their 2nd post.
It would be helpful to have on the CV if it was an additional option. Obviously the other subject is what you will be applying for a job with but it is certainly an extra that many won't have.

seavill wrote: »

How they do it in my school is relevant as it backs up the point I was making, just because it doesn't suit the point you are making does not make it irrelevant

The OP said they were looking into 3 subjects with IT on the side so if someone was thinking as doing it as an extra on top of a 3rd subject yes I would recommend it.
My personal opinion is that it will grow in many more schools with the new JC so it will be an addition to their CV if they have it. I would disagree with you in saying that it won't make the OP more employable.
I think this is incorrect. Yes they won't get employed as an IT teacher full time but they are not looking at that. Having someone properly qualified in IT with other subjects to back it it would be advantageous to have in a school should the principal be into IT or looking at it as a possibility with the new JC or the way I described it in my school.

So I would have to disagree with your posts above

SDowling

Thank you all for your help. Sorry if it caused a bit of a debate. I am currently in the process of applications. I have narrowed it down to Geography and History as I feel they are in demand right now.

I am hoping to engage in a part-time course so that I am available to teach full-time. I would volunteer without pay at this stage! I miss teaching very much and am very eager to get back into it. I already hold a 1st from my P.G.D.E. and 2 very good references so I am very much hoping that gaining this third subject will be of huge benefit to me.

I will also add Tefl and IT to my C.V. with obvious interest in extra-curricular areas.

Again, thank you very much for links and advice,
Sonya

Mardy Bum

SDowling wrote: »

I have narrowed it down to Geography and History as I feel they are in demand right now.

They are not in demand. If you are doing it in terms of demand French, German or Maths would be much better.

lemmno

From what I hear history will soon be a thing of the past. Pun intended. But on a serious note go for geography if you're between them two as I hear with all the changes history will soon be gone.

gaeilgebeo

SDowling wrote: »

I have narrowed it down to Geography and History as I feel they are in demand right now.

I don't know where you have gotten this information but it is not accurate.
There are several history and geography teachers in my school worried about their future employment with history and geography changing to "short courses" at Junior Cert level.
This could be the case in many schools.
It will eventually have a knock-on affect on the subjects at LC level.
I would do a core subject if at all possible.

SDowling

Language subjects are not my string point and I would rather attain a subject that I would be confident teaching. I had contemplated Business but have been advised that it is not as strong as History or Geography. I am qualified to teach one core subject already, English, and I would have thought that it is common place for most teachers to have one core subject in their combination. I am limited to History, Geography or Business. I would have liked to think that having 3 subjects (one core) along with extra-curricular subjects and very good results and references would be appealing for principals when hiring?

If any of you are principals I would greatly appreciate your feedback please. Most in demand subjects? I am very serious about my career and very much appreciate all of the feedback so far.

Thank you.

lemmno

I'm not a principal but from what I've heard is the most in demand are maths and science. Business is very very very common-a ridiculous percentage of h.dips have it, more so than any other non core subject.

genieinabottle

Science and maths are not in demand either. Five years and still subbing!!! Most of the people that i know that did the science dip with me are still subbing too.

Mardy Bum

genieinabottle wrote: »

Science and maths are not in demand either. Five years and still subbing!!! Most of the people that i know that did the science dip with me are still subbing too.

Relatively speaking maths is in demand.

genieinabottle

Its not, I have maths too and so will alot more people this year when the first group of the free maths courses are finished.

lemmno

All I know is we have 2 unqualified 'maths' teachers in our school as principal couldn't find one. I also know they're offering incentives like scholarships/grants to get people with science to do the dip as there's apparently not enough to meet the demand...

genieinabottle

incentives like scholarships/grants?? I have heard of this in England but not Ireland. Is it something new?

lemmno

genieinabottle wrote: »

incentives like scholarships/grants?? I have heard of this in England but not Ireland. Is it something new?

Yeah as far as I know this is the first year they did it. I was in NUIG a few weeks ago and my old lecturer was telling me about it-it was the only way to get them in. Anything to make it easier for them to apply. Now maybe I picked him up wrong but as far as I know that was the jist of it.

rainbowtrout

lemmno wrote: »

Yeah as far as I know this is the first year they did it. I was in NUIG a few weeks ago and my old lecturer was telling me about it-it was the only way to get them in. Anything to make it easier for them to apply. Now maybe I picked him up wrong but as far as I know that was the jist of it.

Not saying the lecturer didn't said that, but given that there are a certain amount of people who do the PDE every year and qualifying in Maths/Science on top of the Science Education degrees in Dublin, Maynooth and Limerick I'd find it very hard to believe that there is any shortage of science graduates for teaching at the moment.

evolving_doors

genieinabottle wrote: »

Its not, I have maths too and so will alot more people this year when the first group of the free maths courses are finished.

To my knowledge -if it's the 2 yr. part time distance course you are referring to- the teachers who qualified to do that course were already teaching maths!

lemmno

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Not saying the lecturer didn't said that, but given that there are a certain amount of people who do the PDE every year and qualifying in Maths/Science on top of the Science Education degrees in Dublin, Maynooth and Limerick I'd find it very hard to believe that there is any shortage of science graduates for teaching at the moment.

http://www.nuigalway.ie/education/downloads/dgo/sparntachta_dgocogg_201314_leagan_barla.pdf

Here's a link I found on NUIG website confirming it. €1200-2000 bursaries for those who apply with science.

genieinabottle

te="Armelodie;89087508"]To my knowledge -if it's the 2 yr. part time distance course you are referring to- the teachers who qualified to do that course were already teaching maths![/quote]

I know a few science and business teachers not on full hours that are doing that course hoping to pick up maths hours next year.

I also know of a girl that got the principal in a school where she was subbing at the time to sign the form and she is also doing the course.

genieinabottle

lemmno wrote: »

http://www.nuigalway.ie/education/downloads/dgo/sparntachta_dgocogg_201314_leagan_barla.pdf

Here's a link I found on NUIG website confirming it. €1200-2000 bursaries for those who apply with science.

To teach through Irish

rainbowtrout

genieinabottle wrote: »

To teach through Irish

That puts a completely different slant on it.

genieinabottle

rainbowtrout wrote: »

That puts a completely different slant on it.

Yeah, so no shortage of English speaking science teachers... Shortage of one's that will teach through Irish.

lemmno

Well at least it shows my lecturer isn't a liar!