Tipping grave diggers?

Kerryman1973

A little advice needed please - a friend mine told me that it is customary to give a tip to a grave digger. Where I am the undertaker pays the grave digger. Has anyone come across this practise? How much would a reasonable tip be?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Traditions vary greatly around the country. Ask the undertaker looking after the funeral in question. Anything here would be based on local practices.

brian_t

That custom probably comes from a time when mini-diggers didn't exist.

In our funeral expenses there was a €200 charge included for the grave diggers. I wouldn't feel the need to tip on top of that.

P. Breathnach

Some undertakers do all the tipping and, of course, charge it to the client as an outlay. They have the advantage of knowing the local custom.

Miaireland

Where I am from the Undertaker tips the Gravediggers and then lists it in the funeral expenses.

big tommy

i also dig graves and a tip would be nice kind of an appriciation from the family for doing a good job as it is very hard work

braddun

you now tip the digger driver

most times they are at lunch,so just leave an envelope at the grave site

cerastes

big tommy wrote: »

i also dig graves and a tip would be nice kind of an appriciation from the family for doing a good job as it is very hard work

Is this hard work paid for in the first place?
I've no doubt it exists, but is probably a tradition from a time when people weren't paid and were recognised for helping by doing such a thing.
How good of a job can be made of digging a hole?
Not that I dont think its hard work, Ive dug a few trenches by hand, aren't there usually mechanical diggers involved?

big tommy

correct i have a digger and went to alot of expence so ya a tip would be nice or maybe get the rate up.

Kevin McCloud

I gets hired in to dig graves with the digger from time to time, undertaker pays me. Get the odd tip.

big tommy

well digging a hole as you say for the first time the ground is very hard and not always can the digger be put in a position to dig the whole hole it can only be done with a very small digger cause graveyards were not layed out to occupy diggers. a grave opened for the first time can be dug to 7feet .id like to know what kind of trenches youv dug

Sam Kade

big tommy wrote: »

correct i have a digger and went to alot of expence so ya a tip would be nice or maybe get the rate up.

€200 to dig a 6' hole with a mini digger. 20 ton excavator is €45/hour that's 4.5 hours work for an excavator. Somehow I don't believe you are underpaid

hfallada

Sam Kade wrote: »

€200 to dig a 6' hole with a mini digger. 20 ton excavator is €45/hour that's 4.5 hours work for an excavator. Somehow I don't believe you are underpaid

I actually studied grave digging in sociology in University( I know its random). But was a prime example of the standardisation of Irish society. How Grave digging is no longer done by locals, but by professionals. Grave diggers require regular training courses, they have to be approved with certain councils and need insurance. That €200 is significantly less after taxes and expenses/

big tommy

well whats the grave digger to do for the rest of the day and also its common practice to dig the day before so its really a 2 day thing to ensure that everything goes according to plan .also in my kneck of the woods we would only get maybe 1 or 2 graves a week on average

Kevin McCloud

What size machine have you big tommy?

Sam Kade

hfallada wrote: »

I actually studied grave digging in sociology in University( I know its random). But was a prime example of the standardisation of Irish society. How Grave digging is no longer done by locals, but by professionals. Grave diggers require regular training courses, they have to be approved with certain councils and need insurance. That €200 is significantly less after taxes and expenses/

20 tonne excavator drivers wouldn't need any of those courses or insurance of course :rolleyes:

big tommy

hfallada wrote: »

I actually studied grave digging in sociology in University( I know its random). But was a prime example of the standardisation of Irish society. How Grave digging is no longer done by locals, but by professionals. Grave diggers require regular training courses, they have to be approved with certain councils and need insurance. That €200 is significantly less after taxes and expenses/

you are so correct 200e wouldnt cover the cost at all at all because i now what you are talking about i have all courses done and public liability 2.5million cover required etc etc

big tommy

Sam Kade wrote: »

20 tonne excavator drivers wouldn't need any of those courses or insurance of course :rolleyes:

ya right

brian_t

big tommy wrote: »

.also in my kneck of the woods we would only get maybe 1 or 2 graves a week on average

Is grave digging your only source of income?

Sam Kade

big tommy wrote: »

you are so correct 200e wouldnt cover the cost at all at all because i now what you are talking about i have all courses done and public liability 2.5million cover required etc etc

Why would you need public liability isn't that only for land owners?

big tommy

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

What size machine have you big tommy?

shes a 1.5 sir

big tommy

Sam Kade wrote: »

Why would you need public liability isn't that only for land owners?

in county council property

cerastes

big tommy wrote: »

well digging a hole as you say for the first time the ground is very hard and not always can the digger be put in a position to dig the whole hole it can only be done with a very small digger cause graveyards were not layed out to occupy diggers. a grave opened for the first time can be dug to 7feet .id like to know what kind of trenches youv dug

Didnt say it was all done by digger, and I admit its hard work.
I'm just asking if you get paid for it, if so, I dont understand the need for the family to expect to tip also.
I think the tipping part may have come from a time when people werent paid and did this as a local.
I dont know for sure, but I thought the gravediggers were either on the payroll of the council or did other maintenance work around the graveyards.

I just feel its the kind of thing, putting out the hand to someone in a time of bereavement isnt nice (where they are paying for things at the cost they expect to be charged) to then effectively guilt someone into maintaining a tradition and having a few pieces of silver cross their hand too.

big tommy wrote: »

well whats the grave digger to do for the rest of the day and also its common practice to dig the day before so its really a 2 day thing to ensure that everything goes according to plan .also in my kneck of the woods we would only get maybe 1 or 2 graves a week on average

I can appreciate that, but thats hardly the deceased family's concern, their concern is they just buried a relative.
I'm not saying it isnt hard work, or you dont deserve a fair pay for the job you do, tipping on top of it, theres something that bothers me about tipping at times that are any landmark occasions in a person or familys life, the idea people should be made feel obligated to tip for fear of besmirching their dead relative or their own name because its a tradition, doesnt sit well with me.


edit, out of curiosity, what value are we talking here?

evolving_doors

brian_t wrote: »

Is grave digging your only source of income?

Jeez folks ja want to know what he eats for breakfast?

Pay the piper, call the tune and be on yer way.

Dunno about other areas but we usually have 3 local fellas with shovels... no courses, no insurance... just shovels.

Undertaker pays em and family might or might not tip (sometimes ive seen a bottle of whisky produced after its over!..)

Anyone says digging a grave is like digging any hole has obviously forgotten about the contents.... hence the whisky.

bluemartin

My family were recently charged €500 to dig a grave for a deceased relative, the charge was listed on the invoice received from the funeral director.

I personally thought it was daylight robbery.

Kevin McCloud

bluemartin wrote: »

My family were recently charged €500 to dig a grave for a deceased relative, the charge was listed on the invoice received from the funeral director.

I personally thought it was daylight robbery.

Diggers cost money to maintain and digging a grave ties them up for the day.

bluemartin

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Diggers cost money to maintain and digging a grave ties them up for the day.

It took them exactly two and half hours to dig it, they were just reopening an old grave.

There was no digger involved just a few lads with shovels.

Sam Kade

Armelodie wrote: »

Jeez folks ja want to know what he eats for breakfast?

Pay the piper, call the tune and be on yer way.

Dunno about other areas but we usually have 3 local fellas with shovels... no courses, no insurance... just shovels.

Undertaker pays em and family might or might not tip (sometimes ive seen a bottle of whisky produced after its over!..)

Anyone says digging a grave is like digging any hole has obviously forgotten about the contents.... hence the whisky.

Not all graveyards are owned by the council a lot of them are still owned by the church I suppose the regulations would be more relaxed in those graveyards.

lulu1

big tommy wrote: »

i also dig graves and a tip would be nice kind of an appriciation from the family for doing a good job as it is very hard work

But sure you are getting paid to do the work by the undertaker which he includes in his bill to the family why do you expect more from the family.

heldel00

Thanks be to god in my parish we still have locals digging graves. I know it is being phased out but I really think it's another step on to the road towards losing old important traditions.
It is the very last thing that you can do for a family to show your respect and support for them. Why did it have to be changed? How many people were seriously injured digging graves!!!? I know it's really to do with insurance, health and safety etc but still. Sad when good enough just can't be left alone

Kevin McCloud

bluemartin wrote: »

It took them exactly two and half hours to dig it, they were just reopening an old grave.

Ok but the machine could have been on a job miles away, take into account the cost of moving it to the graveyard and back.

shalalala

Personally I pay the person a reasonable rate for a job well done and then don't tip. I never really understood tipping someone for just doing their job, that is unless they have amazing customer service. I cannot really see how that applies to a grave digger.

However OP. If you are concerned that you would be going against the norm in your area, I would just ask the undertakers.

Sam Kade

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Ok but the machine could have been on a job miles away, take into account the cost of moving it to the graveyard and back.

A mini digger on a trailer behind a jeep not a big cost to move. The grave digger in my locality only moves his digger from one graveyard to another maybe a 10 mile radius.

big tommy

cerastes wrote: »

Didnt say it was all done by digger, and I admit its hard work.
I'm just asking if you get paid for it, if so, I dont understand the need for the family to expect to tip also.
I think the tipping part may have come from a time when people werent paid and did this as a local.
I dont know for sure, but I thought the gravediggers were either on the payroll of the council or did other maintenance work around the graveyards.

I just feel its the kind of thing, putting out the hand to someone in a time of bereavement isnt nice (where they are paying for things at the cost they expect to be charged) to then effectively guilt someone into maintaining a tradition and having a few pieces of silver cross their hand too.



I can appreciate that, but thats hardly the deceased family's concern, their concern is they just buried a relative.
I'm not saying it isnt hard work, or you dont deserve a fair pay for the job you do, tipping on top of it, theres something that bothers me about tipping at times that are any landmark occasions in a person or familys life, the idea people should be made feel obligated to tip for fear of besmirching their dead relative or their own name because its a tradition, doesnt sit well with me.


edit, out of curiosity, what value are we talking here?

ok point takin .but take into account theres 8 courses taken and to be renewed often a digger to be paid for also you need a trailer and a jeep to pull it around and insurance also council insist that two men do the jod on health and saftey grounds also accountant phone fuel the list is endless around here the digger gets 400 total .im at a few years now and honestly my opinion is that people aint dying fast enough

bluemartin

As I no longer live in the said area and left many years ago I questioned my family as to the local practises regarding grave digging. They told me that people sometimes use local lads to dig the graves but it was normally those that had few financial resources and that it is now mostly done by the professionals apparently my brother told me it looks more impressive if the professional does it - Neighbours whispering etc. I was shocked I never thought there would be a stigma around who digs the grave.

I would tip the local lads anyway but not the professionals.

Kevin McCloud

Sam Kade wrote: »

A mini digger on a trailer behind a jeep not a big cost to move.

One would think that but remember you are wearing out the jeep and trailer, something has to pay for the high maintenance costs of running a jeep.

bluemartin

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

something has to pay for the high maintenance costs of running a jeep.

€500

cerastes

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Diggers cost money to maintain and digging a grave ties them up for the day.

I suppose they do cost money to maintain, Id expect them to be moved for a job to anywhere and to be held up anywhere for the length of time when ever they are used, that doesnt seem unusual to me, otherwise whats the point of having them, I wonder how many official diggers have insurance, didnt think of it before, if its infrequent and the work is uncertain then it can be easy to see how many would not bother, knowing they can do the job without extra hassle.

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Ok but the machine could have been on a job miles away, take into account the cost of moving it to the graveyard and back.

Id say thats insignificant compared to the cost of already having the digger/trailer/vehicle to tow it, and given all of that is required to actually dig graves/holes in the ground.

So any replies on the tip value, what are we talking here? 10, 20, 40, 50?

Sam Kade

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

One would think that but remember you are wearing out the jeep and trailer, something has to pay for the high maintenance costs of running a jeep.

So a little tip will keep their jeep on the road.

Kevin McCloud

Pointless having a discussion with people who don't realise the costs involved in keeping machinery in working order. Clutch had to be done in jeep 6 months ago dropped almost a grand on it. A track motor went in the digger and had some other few jobs doing to it cost over 2 grand. Brakes needing overhauling in the trailer last year another grand.
Its almost laughable the way people think we make fortunes, comparing their nissan micra running costs to contractors cost.

cerastes

Kevin McCloud wrote: »

Pointless having a discussion with people who don't realise the costs involved in keeping machinery in working order. Clutch had to be done in jeep 6 months ago dropped almost a grand on it. A track motor went in the digger and had some other few jobs doing to it cost over 2 grand. Brakes needing overhauling in the trailer last year another grand.
Its almost laughable the way people think we make fortunes, comparing their nissan micra running costs to contractors cost.

No one said you make fortunes or that you shouldnt be paid, but I dont think the tip is keeping everything going. or anything about a nissan micra, I must've missed that?

The things you mentioned apportioned out over all the jobs are the cost of running those vehicles, I appreciate every penny counts, but I dont see why getting charged and then paying a tip is required also?
Its not the obligation of the person to tip someone so they can fix the things they need to, isnt that what comes from being paid, again I appreciate that there often isnt enough to keep things going, but from a family perspective, it doesnt look great getting paid, what is a not insubstantial figure for most people by whats mentioned here, to then expect a tip also, personally Id rather someone partook of food and a few drinks but I expect that isnt practical these days or less likely and people would prefer cash, seems kinda grubby, either the cost of it covers it or it doesnt?

Schwiiing

Around here it's friends, neighbours and extended family that hand dig graves. I've dug around 10 graves in my time and never recieved any cash payment. Around here you get bottles of beer and whiskey during and after the digging and a hot meal after the burial.

bluemartin

Schwiiing wrote: »

Around here it's friends, neighbours and extended family that hand dig graves. I've dug around 10 graves in my time and never recieved any cash payment. Around here you get bottles of beer and whiskey during and after the digging and a hot meal after the burial.

It's the traditional way of doing it. A community effort and a sense of unity for all involved. It's all changing now another great loss to the rural way of life.

h2005

Why not charge what you perceive as a fair price and then there's no need for the whole tipping rubbish.

foggy_lad

When my father was buried the locals who dug the grave with picks and shovels and the help of some of the family were given £30 between them for opening and closing the grave by the family and also got a feed and few drinks. ten years later and the gravediggers that opened the same grave for my mother(A much easier task 2nd time around as the bedrock was not there and they used a mini-digger) were paid €120 each.

That is some inflation!

davo10

foggy_lad wrote: »

When my father was buried the locals who dug the grave with picks and shovels and the help of some of the family were given £30 between them for opening and closing the grave by the family and also got a feed and few drinks. ten years later and the gravediggers that opened the same grave for my mother(A much easier task 2nd time around as the bedrock was not there and they used a mini-digger) were paid €120 each.

That is some inflation!

Can you see why there might be a difference in cost? In the first instance it was family and friends, you gave them a €30 tip afterwards, the second time it was a professional, you paid them for their work, that's not inflation.

Tipping can be customary and is always discretionary. We tip when paying for a meal, why? The meal is paid for but it is custom to tip the waiters. When I got married, it was custom to give a few quid to the sarchristian, I top cabbies but again I'm not sure why, so I don't see the big deal in tipping a grave digger a few quid, they have taken care to prepare the last resting place for your loved one, they take care to close it afterward. To me that is personal and i would not mind giving them a few quid for a job well done.

From a practical perspective, I doubt the grave diggers can go on to another job afterward so they are being paid a day's wages. Typically for a labourer in construction that is €130, plus they have to transport the digger, pay fuel, insurance etc (someone asked why you would need insurance, every time you bring machinery onto someone else's land, you are responcable for any damage done, any injury caused etc, I shudder to think what the response would be if a digger driver damaged the headstone on another grave), maintenance etc.

Lastly, as with all charges that people complain are excessive, if you don't like it, don't pay it, dig it yourself if you think the gravediggers are overpaid.

mikemac1

Had deleted my post there

The council do it in Galway City anyway. The council will change their own fee, I was just posting about tipping council workers

iano.p

I have hand dug graves here with a few other local lads and never got any cash for it sometimes it's a bottle of whiskey dropped into the house. I wouldn't take cash because at some stage I will need one dug.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

hfallada wrote: »

I actually studied grave digging in sociology in University( I know its random). But was a prime example of the standardisation of Irish society. How Grave digging is no longer done by locals, but by professionals. Grave diggers require regular training courses, they have to be approved with certain councils and need insurance. That €200 is significantly less after taxes and expenses/

There is so much wrong with that! Firstly, some graves are dug by locals - one dug here only last month by locals by hand and another a few months back. There is not regular trainer for anybody who might use a digger for graves.
As for 200 being less after taxes and expenses: so is any person's pay. It is still €200 cost to the family ofbtbe deceased.

davo10

Arielle Teeny Soccer wrote: »

There is so much wrong with that! Firstly, some graves are dug by locals - one dug here only last month by locals by hand and another a few months back. There is not regular trainer for anybody who might use a digger for graves.
As for 200 being less after taxes and expenses: so is any person's pay. It is still €200 cost to the family ofbtbe deceased.

Arielle Teeny Soccer a quick google of "grave digging regulations" shows there are health &safety guidelines and certification required for grave diggers in county council run graveyards. In fact a scan of the articles seems to show that undertakers can only engage the services of diggers who have that certification. Mad isn't it?

You are right, €200 is €200 whether it's gross or net, but payment due is payment due regardless of the circumstances.

sh1tstirrer

If professional gravediggers can't cover their costs I doubt getting a tip will help them. Is it like a lot of professions get bigger or get out. Surely if you are only digging one or two graves a week that it isn't your sole income?