Pylons - Ear to the Ground 21st Nov

Joe the Plumber

I'm luckey enough not be affected by the issue, but I really feel for those farmers interviewed tonight.

Is there any way that hey could be supported?

I wouldn't be depending on the IFA to be honest..... They probably get a commission on our ESB bills :-)

Like the factories, I never heard of a lobby group being paid by the people you are supposed to be lobbing against.

rancher

Joe the Plumber wrote: »

I'm luckey enough not be affected by the issue, but I really feel for those farmers interviewed tonight.

Is there any way that hey could be supported?

I wouldn't be depending on the IFA to be honest..... They probably get a commission on our ESB bills :-)

Like the factories, I never heard of a lobby group being paid by the people you are supposed to be lobbing against.

Are union fees not collected out of employees salaries by employers,

Conmaicne Mara

Thankfully my farm leads nowhere. Just after watching ETTG on RTE player, wouldn't want them pylons anywhere near me.

rancher

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Thankfully my farm leads nowhere. Just after watching ETTG on RTE player, wouldn't want them pylons anywhere near me.[/QUOTE)


Have one here on the land since the 1960s, no real prob, don't think they're as high voltage but it sizzles nicely on a damp morning

Damo810

Whats the main reason for opposition to them? One farmer seemed that it was because of the obstruction caused, other it seemed to be the health effects but neither side (electricity company or farmers) seemed to be able to show research into it.

td5man

Damo810 wrote: »

Whats the main reason for opposition to them? One farmer seemed that it was because of the obstruction caused, other it seemed to be the health effects but neither side (electricity company or farmers) seemed to be able to show research into it.

Health concerns mainly.
We're on two of the proposed routes for the north-south inter connecter :-(
Luckily they seem to be choosing a different route.

rancher

Damo810 wrote: »

Whats the main reason for opposition to them? One farmer seemed that it was because of the obstruction caused, other it seemed to be the health effects but neither side (electricity company or farmers) seemed to be able to show research into it.

They're no problem, haven't done any harm here, management or health wise......we don't even notice them.
Suppose people don't like the look of them, but they still like their electricity.

''It's in the national interest'' is what people used to jokingly say to me when the new M6 was destroying my farm...grrr

Conmaicne Mara

rancher wrote: »

They're no problem, haven't done any harm here, management or health wise......we don't even notice them.
Suppose people don't like the look of them, but they still like their electricity.

''It's in the national interest'' is what people used to jokingly say to me when the new M6 was destroying my farm...grrr

I'm one of them that wouldn't like the look of them. Would prefer them underground too, knew well money would be the issue, same reason different topic.

The national interest reminds me of the last election. There was a specific candidate running in this constituency with a tag line "For the common good". Good Jebus but I used to squeeze the steering wheel something awful passing them posters. Then there was a 5 day wait between that candidate and the one I voted for to get in :eek: It's just a huge bullseye target for someone who wants to stick their nose in someone elses business.

But it had a happy ending

Sam Kade

I wonder would the man representing the esb like to have one towering over his house They can't bury them because of the distance yet they are putting a cable across the Irish Sea to export wind generated electricity to the UK.

Old diesel

Sam Kade wrote: »

I wonder would the man representing the esb like to have one towering over his house They can't bury them because of the distance yet they are putting a cable across the Irish Sea to export wind generated electricity to the UK.

Good point - I imagine the crafty hoors have made sure the project will avoid their part of the world :mad:.

My concern - is how we seem as a country to be simply rushing into this at a rate of knots without thinking it through properly.

would love to know how the likes of the Swedes and the Dutch deal with all this kind of thing - youd expect them to do things fairly right - Swedes especially.

Wouldn't trust our lot to tell me the right time :rolleyes:

lanber man

Sam Kade wrote: »

I wonder would the man representing the esb like to have one towering over his house They can't bury them because of the distance yet they are putting a cable across the Irish Sea to export wind generated electricity to the UK.

Valid point and id be in favour of underground cables but I think theres a difference between dropping a cable along the seabed and actually burying it. Although pylons are supposed to be ludicrously expensive

Good loser

Having studied a fair bit of science would say there's no (added) danger whatsoever in them. Nothing compared to tobacco anyway. Didn't see ETTG.

Birdnuts

The pylons are being put in for the benefit of wind energy companies. So my advice to people is that if there isn't pylons going through you land atm, their soon will be since the government is taking a 3 billion euro bet on wind energy on your behalf via everyones energy bills. The more I read up on other countries experience with this approach, the more I worry about the fact that the Irish government appears to be wilfully ignoring the growing evidence of the folly of this strategy on economic, environmental grounds etc.

Some interesting and relevant observations by Colm McCarthy in last weeks IFJ on the matter

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/site/farming.php?newsid=17812

epfff

Birdnuts wrote: »

The pylons are being put in for the benefit of wind energy companies]

I think them damm wind energy companies shot JFK as well
Rubish
its sher lack of knowledge and fear of unknown driving these people supported by some begrugers that are Just at war with the world

Marooned75

Sure a well known farming organisation are for turbines and against pylons that tells its own story!!!

tabby aspreme

RTE Primetime had a pylon debate earlier on this week, I thought the audience would attack Eirgrid boss Fintan Slye, there is huge anger all over the country and its only getting going.

reilig

We have one on the land over 50 years. 30 years ago, they moved it about 50 meters - this left it within 20 meters of both my parents house and my grandparents house. They should never have been allowed to do this! I don't think there have been any adverse health affects but I'd never let them put another one on my land. Along with that, they are cheeky buggers - they came on to the land to replace poles without permission - they took out hedges for access, destroyed a laneway with diggers and teleporters and cracked concrete in a cattle yard as they went through it. We had a job to get them to do repairs.

epfff

reilig wrote: »

We have one on the land over 50 years. 30 years ago, they moved it about 50 meters - this left it within 20 meters of both my parents house and my grandparents house. They should never have been allowed to do this! I don't think there have been any adverse health affects but I'd never let them put another one on my land. Along with that, they are cheeky buggers - they came on to the land to replace poles without permission - they took out hedges for access, destroyed a laneway with diggers and teleporters and cracked concrete in a cattle yard as they went through it. We had a job to get them to do repairs.

Will agree with ya there
had bad experience here with a3 phase line
But at least you have reason and something concrete and realistic not just randomly vext at the whole thing

F.D

This whole wind energy and interconnector idea is pure madness, all we keep hearing is ireland needs to be self sufficient, we all agree with that,
then you hear we can be an exporter of power, why do we want this, to pay off the UK government for the handout we got when we went but a few years ago and because everyone is opposing wind energy over there

Over in the UK they gave a good refit tarrif, Farmers and even some householders put solar panels on there roofs and put in small scale wind turbines to provide power on a local level with no need for big interconnectors or big turbines
Probably the same applies in europe

Why can we not do this over here ??

epfff

F.D wrote: »

Why can we not do this over here ??

Because of sstupid planning laws
And begrudgingly neighbours that won't do it theselves but hate to see Others possibly suceeding

Old diesel

thing that's puzzling me - is that if all this is needed simply because of wind energy - rather then because of simple demand from consumers - would it be an idea to improve wind energy technology - so that when the system is reaching capacity - the wind energy can be turned off.

What I mean is that youd switch off the turbines remotely.

Actually - I think the way to address this - is possibly to accept that the current technology may not neccessarly be the best for the likes of rural areas - and thus work to improve the technology - and address issues that way.

Lots of talk about undergrounding - but if we need 400 KV power cables - can it really be done successfully.

What annoys me - is that rural Ireland could end up taking the hit - while Dublin takes more of the benefit.

We also need to get to the bottome of the impact on things like tourism - and one way or another - get the health concerns addressed once and for all.

Maybe the health concerns are unfounded - in that case just get to the bottom of it - and get the facts.

But if you bulldoze in - and have issues later on - it could be too late then to fix it.

Birdnuts

epfff wrote: »

I think them damm wind energy companies shot JFK as well
Rubish
its sher lack of knowledge and fear of unknown driving these people supported by some begrugers that are Just at war with the world

Well its rubbish thats taken directly from Eirgrids literature arriving at my address in North Mayo and their website concerning the Gridwest project.

nashmach

reilig wrote: »

We have one on the land over 50 years. 30 years ago, they moved it about 50 meters - this left it within 20 meters of both my parents house and my grandparents house. They should never have been allowed to do this! I don't think there have been any adverse health affects but I'd never let them put another one on my land. Along with that, they are cheeky buggers - they came on to the land to replace poles without permission - they took out hedges for access, destroyed a laneway with diggers and teleporters and cracked concrete in a cattle yard as they went through it. We had a job to get them to do repairs.

We have two and a half of the buggers here and we only have a small farm - two different lines.

New route could clip one field judging by the map at this stage.

They did so much damage putting up those my Dad still remembers it.

Reilig, you need a lock on that gate, they did similar here but didn't make a mess but as they went in without permission, there was words said - they haven't done it since and we have explicitly told them no in the winter too.

Old diesel

nashmach wrote: »

We have two and a half of the buggers here and we only have a small farm - two different lines.

New route could clip one field judging by the map at this stage.

They did so much damage putting up those my Dad still remembers it.

Reilig, you need a lock on that gate, they did similar here but didn't make a mess but as they went in without permission, there was words said - they haven't done it since and we have explicitly told them no in the winter too.

This thing about them walking into a farmers land if the farmer doesn't want pylons - is very poor.

Its private property - and to my mind if a particular company isn't welcome on your land - and the staff are told they are not wanted - then if they remain or return to your land - they should be classed as trespassing

Afterall - im sure if I rocked up in Eirgrids HQ in a camper van - and parked up and wouldn't move - id be classed as trespassing. Pretty sure the Gardaí would come pretty quick to move me on - and arrest me if I wouldn't move

Why farms are different when its a state agency that's looking to come on your land is beyond fair.

Makes a mockery of the whole planning system too imo :rolleyes:

Anyhow - that's enough of a rant for the day

Capercaille

F.D wrote: »

This whole wind energy and interconnector idea is pure madness, all we keep hearing is ireland needs to be self sufficient, we all agree with that,
then you hear we can be an exporter of power, why do we want this, to pay off the UK government for the handout we got when we went but a few years ago and because everyone is opposing wind energy over there

Over in the UK they gave a good refit tarrif, Farmers and even some householders put solar panels on there roofs and put in small scale wind turbines to provide power on a local level with no need for big interconnectors or big turbines
Probably the same applies in europe

Why can we not do this over here ??

If excess electricity is being produced it can be exported, ie when the wind is strong. During periods of low wind, electricity can be transmitted from the UK.

Joe the Plumber

rancher wrote: »

Are union fees not collected out of employees salaries by employers,

With the employees consent !!!!

Farmer

Old diesel wrote: »

Maybe the health concerns are unfounded - in that case just get to the bottom of it - and get the facts..

Now that seems to be the tricky bit

rancher

Old diesel wrote: »

This thing about them walking into a farmers land if the farmer doesn't want pylons - is very poor.

Its private property - and to my mind if a particular company isn't welcome on your land - and the staff are told they are not wanted - then if they remain or return to your land - they should be classed as trespassing

Afterall - im sure if I rocked up in Eirgrids HQ in a camper van - and parked up and wouldn't move - id be classed as trespassing. Pretty sure the Gardaí would come pretty quick to move me on - and arrest me if I wouldn't move

Why farms are different when its a state agency that's looking to come on your land is beyond fair.

Makes a mockery of the whole planning system too imo :rolleyes:

Anyhow - that's enough of a rant for the day

You'd never get roads or electricity around the country if state agencies didn't have the powers they have...its the way it has to be

st1979

Well I am totally against these. Under no circumstances can they be in my back yard. They can go somewhere else anywhere but here. I want no pylons. No wind turbines. No power station of any kind especially nuclear. No incinerator. Definitely no sewage treatment plant, they smell. I am also afraid of those mobile phone masts. Although I have poor reception so maybe they could put one up a safe distance from me. Maybe closer to you than me.

If I think of anymore I will let you know. Oh hang on. I am against new roadways and any developments that require planning permission. And quite a few planning exempt developments I am against too.

My reasons are simple my area is unbelievablely beautiful. Much nicer than where u live. And I can find research to prove all of the above is going to kill me.

Birdnuts

st1979 wrote: »

Well I am totally against these. Under no circumstances can they be in my back yard. They can go somewhere else anywhere but here. I want no pylons. No wind turbines. No power station of any kind especially nuclear. No incinerator. Definitely no sewage treatment plant, they smell. I am also afraid of those mobile phone masts. Although I have poor reception so maybe they could put one up a safe distance from me. Maybe closer to you than me.

If I think of anymore I will let you know. Oh hang on. I am against new roadways and any developments that require planning permission. And quite a few planning exempt developments I am against too.

My reasons are simple my area is unbelievablely beautiful. Much nicer than where u live. And I can find research to prove all of the above is going to kill me.

You appear to live in a very black and white world.Every infrastructure project has to be viewed on a Cost Benefit Analysis level. Some projects make the grade on that basis, but others don't. I support the former type but not the latter. Hence the link I posted earlier in this thread to that IFJ article by Colm McCarthy. A man who is a hard nosed economist and full on capitalist, not a crusty hippy who lives in a tree house.

bogman_bass

I think its disgraceful how the anti-pylon lobby have people terrified over them.

I have a physics degree and if you beleive that there is a health risk (I dont) then there is a greater one when they are burried since they are only 3 meters down as opposed to 20 meters up. The strength of electromagnetic radiation is directly prportional to the distance from the source

Birdnuts

bogman_bass wrote: »

I think its disgraceful how the anti-pylon lobby have people terrified over them.

I have a physics degree and if you beleive that there is a health risk (I dont) then there is a greater one when they are burried since they are only 3 meters down as opposed to 20 meters up. The strength of electromagnetic radiation is directly prportional to the distance from the source

Wouldn't the 3m of soil and ducting not buffer the radiation to a large extent??

20silkcut

bogman_bass wrote: »

I think its disgraceful how the anti-pylon lobby have people terrified over them.

I have a physics degree and if you beleive that there is a health risk (I dont) then there is a greater one when they are burried since they are only 3 meters down as opposed to 20 meters up. The strength of electromagnetic radiation is directly prportional to the distance from the source

They look absolutely terrible can ruin the aesthetic of otherwise beautiful countryside.

st1979

Birdnuts wrote: »

You appear to live in a very black and white world.Every infrastructure project has to be viewed on a Cost Benefit Analysis level. Some projects make the grade on that basis, but others don't. I support the former type but not the latter. Hence the link I posted earlier in this thread to that IFJ article by Colm McCarthy. A man who is a hard nosed economist and full on capitalist, not a crusty hippy who lives in a tree house.

Really do you believe any cost benefit analysis will stop the nimby attitudes or allay the fears of health affects. You can give all the science in the world and it wont make a shred of difference. My wife wont even let me have an electric blanket on the bed as she is sleeping on copper wires and how dangerous it is long term health all while she smokes 20 a day. So we had a great debate about pylons as you can imagine. But in the end of the day society needs infrastructure. And nobody ever wants to live beside it.

st1979

20silkcut wrote: »

They look absolutely terrible can ruin the aesthetic of otherwise beautiful countryside.

Everything built looks terrible. Windmills pylons roads dumps caravan parks farm sheds bungalows (bungalow blitz)
So I think you ruined the country side with your house and farm sheds.

Now I am being facetious. But I know people that were up in arms about all the above. I have been told the country side looks awful when the oilseed rape is flowering as it looks an unnatural yellow. I know people who were up in arms over a farm 5 miles away wanting to put in a chicken shed. (It would ruin the beautiful countryside they bought into).
My local town puts it sewage totally untreated into the sea. Because for the last 23 years the owner of the land beside the proposed sewage treatment plant went through the courts. Even went to European court of human rights.

I like the fact when I turn on the lights there is power. I feel sorry for anyone who has to farm around existing pylons or the upset of new pylons but in the end of the day I want the light to work

rancher

st1979 wrote: »

Everything built looks terrible. Windmills pylons roads dumps caravan parks farm sheds bungalows (bungalow blitz)
So I think you ruined the country side with your house and farm sheds.

Now I am being facetious. But I know people that were up in arms about all the above. I have been told the country side looks awful when the oilseed rape is flowering as it looks an unnatural yellow. I know people who were up in arms over a farm 5 miles away wanting to put in a chicken shed. (It would ruin the beautiful countryside they bought into).
My local town puts it sewage totally untreated into the sea. Because for the last 23 years the owner of the land beside the proposed sewage treatment plant went through the courts. Even went to European court of human rights.

I like the fact when I turn on the lights there is power. I feel sorry for anyone who has to farm around existing pylons or the upset of new pylons but in the end of the day I want the light to work

Very true, I hated every new house that was built in the country side during the celtic tiger and I was proved right.
But that apart, farmers can destroy the countryside as well, rusty sheds, or painted the wrong colour, machinery dumps etc. when we live in an area for a while we get used to what's around us and don't see what other people see.
There's loads of pylons around me....like dirty sheds, we just don't see them and there has been no health problems.
It would be great to get them underground, especially if they go across farmland ( think it's nearly €100 mtr to the farmer) but it seems it's not practical or cost effective, and to be honest my electricity is dear enough

bbam

bogman_bass wrote: »

I think its disgraceful how the anti-pylon lobby have people terrified over them.

I have a physics degree and if you beleive that there is a health risk (I dont) then there is a greater one when they are burried since they are only 3 meters down as opposed to 20 meters up. The strength of electromagnetic radiation is directly prportional to the distance from the source

Dead right.
More radiation from the microwave in your kitchen or the phone in your pocket.

bogman_bass

Birdnuts wrote: »

Wouldn't the 3m of soil and ducting not buffer the radiation to a large extent??

To a degree but its exponentially proportional to distance so it has a greater effect

bogman_bass

Don't get me wrong if it was going through my land I'd want to be damn well compensated for it but I wouldn't protest against it. They have to go somewhere. I have no time for NIMBYism

Boaty

Offshore windfarms are the way to go?,
They are talking about building over 200 turbines off Wicklow, can't see it going ahead tho. People who don't even live near the sea and who wont even be affected the farm will object.

st1979

Boaty wrote: »

Offshore windfarms are the way to go?,
They are talking about building over 200 turbines off Wicklow, can't see it going ahead tho. People who don't even live near the sea and who wont even be affected the farm will object.

They can object all they like. No planning permission needed in the sea. Thats one of the biggest reasons for offshore. It also gets better wind but costs way more. Lots wanted to object to them first few they put up off arklow. But got a shock that they couldnt

20silkcut

st1979 wrote: »

Everything built looks terrible. Windmills pylons roads dumps caravan parks farm sheds bungalows (bungalow blitz)
So I think you ruined the country side with your house and farm sheds.

Now I am being facetious. But I know people that were up in arms about all the above. I have been told the country side looks awful when the oilseed rape is flowering as it looks an unnatural yellow. I know people who were up in arms over a farm 5 miles away wanting to put in a chicken shed. (It would ruin the beautiful countryside they bought into).
My local town puts it sewage totally untreated into the sea. Because for the last 23 years the owner of the land beside the proposed sewage treatment plant went through the courts. Even went to European court of human rights.

I like the fact when I turn on the lights there is power. I feel sorry for anyone who has to farm around existing pylons or the upset of new pylons but in the end of the day I want the light to work

Big difference between windmills and pylons and rusty sheds and bungalows.



They are massive and can be seen for miles around .

If you had a nut or bolt exposed on the wall of your sitting room you would cover it up because it looks out of place. It may be holding your house together but you still would cover it up.

Them pylons and windmills are desperate looking yokes and make no attempt to be sympathetic to the surrounding countryside.

A pylon in the Saudi Arabian desert is the very same as one in the densely populated idyllic countryside of Waterford and Tipperary.

Capercaille

20silkcut wrote: »

They look absolutely terrible can ruin the aesthetic of otherwise beautiful countryside.

My neighbour said the same thing. He levelled 250 meters of mature hedge during the summer, but that's OK though.

Old diesel

Capercaille wrote: »

My neighbour said the same thing. He levelled 250 meters of mature hedge during the summer, but that's OK though.

Bit of a difference though - in the impact of the removal of a mature hedge and putting in big massive pylons I think .

Personally - id be wanting to see some industry/jobs etc coming into rural towns in return for these and the wind turbines.

Completely unacceptable if you end up with a situation whereby all the benefits accrue to Dublin and other urban areas - while Rural Ireland gets all the negatives - including loss of tourism etc - and no benefits in return.

Personally - the health issues are a matter up for debate - more research needs to be done to get to the bottom of the issue.

But theres still the issue of tourism - its an important industry for many rural parts - and theres still the big issue (in my eyes) of how our image as food producers - would be damaged by these big Pylons been put in.

Think Eirgrids overall attitude towards communities is not helping either .

Hopefully in the long term it won't impact on rural Ireland too severly in terms of keeping it alive - but im not sure how that will pan out yet

Scartbeg

bogman_bass wrote: »

I think its disgraceful how the anti-pylon lobby have people terrified over them.

I have a physics degree and if you beleive that there is a health risk (I dont) then there is a greater one when they are burried since they are only 3 meters down as opposed to 20 meters up. The strength of electromagnetic radiation is directly inversely prportional to the distance squared from the source

FYP.

For what it's worth, I would also have any doubts about health effects, as the fields generated are swamped by others in the environment. You are exposed to much higher electric/magnetic fields from devices in the home, using mobile phones, sitting at a PC, diagnostic scans etc. People are terrible at assessing levels of risk. You are much more likely to get cancer from radon gas or UV radiation from the sun.

Birdnuts

st1979 wrote: »

Really do you believe any cost benefit analysis will stop the nimby attitudes or allay the fears of health affects. You can give all the science in the world and it wont make a shred of difference. My wife wont even let me have an electric blanket on the bed as she is sleeping on copper wires and how dangerous it is long term health all while she smokes 20 a day. So we had a great debate about pylons as you can imagine. But in the end of the day society needs infrastructure. And nobody ever wants to live beside it.

Your talking in general terms again - I'm taking about this particular project and the highly dubious economic reasons behind it as was outlined in the link I posted earlier. Pylons are necessary, I get that and actually have a few near my small farm in North Mayo, no problem. What I have a problem with is the government blowing billions of euros of our money to create a sprawling grid and power system for the benefit of a cabal of well connected and powerfull vested interests which given the experience of other countries will turn out to be an expensive white elephant for the rest of us.

If proof is needed of my fears then you only have to look at the experience of Denmark and Germany that are now burdened with the highest retail electricity prices in the EU by a long way after going down the path the likes of Pat Rabbitte, Eamonn Ryan etc. would have us go down. Heavy industry in Germany is starting to pack up despite the government there giving billions of euros to industrial users in compensation for higher electricity prices. Ireland cannot afford such an expense and our chances of attracting energy intensive industry will be severely compromised not to mention the overall negative effects for the economy of a steep rise in bills for domestic users. Trashing the Irish countryside to bring this folly about is dumb economics given that our unspoilt image is the greatest money spinner for our tourism and food sectors

Good loser

Old diesel wrote: »

Bit of a difference though - in the impact of the removal of a mature hedge and putting in big massive pylons I think .

Personally - id be wanting to see some industry/jobs etc coming into rural towns in return for these and the wind turbines.

Completely unacceptable if you end up with a situation whereby all the benefits accrue to Dublin and other urban areas - while Rural Ireland gets all the negatives - including loss of tourism etc - and no benefits in return.

Personally - the health issues are a matter up for debate - more research needs to be done to get to the bottom of the issue.

But theres still the issue of tourism - its an important industry for many rural parts - and theres still the big issue (in my eyes) of how our image as food producers - would be damaged by these big Pylons been put in.

Think Eirgrids overall attitude towards communities is not helping either .

Hopefully in the long term it won't impact on rural Ireland too severly in terms of keeping it alive - but im not sure how that will pan out yet

No there, the health issues (?) have been disposed of again and again. No more money should be wasted on those.

Can't see the pylons having the slightest impact on tourism or our food producers image - what's that anyway?

Have had Eirgrid on my land twice in recent years - they were courteous and efficient. Not looking forward to months/years of stupid arguments and protests about this issue.

bob charles

forgive me guys, but is this big argument just over putting a few 400kv interconnector lines about the country you would swear people were arguing over something important

Old diesel

Birdnuts wrote: »

Your talking in general terms again - I'm taking about this particular project and the highly dubious economic reasons behind it as was outlined in the link I posted earlier. Pylons are necessary, I get that and actually have a few near my small farm in North Mayo, no problem. What I have a problem with is the government blowing billions of euros of our money to create a sprawling grid and power system for the benefit of a cabal of well connected and powerfull vested interests which given the experience of other countries will turn out to be an expensive white elephant for the rest of us.

If proof is needed of my fears then you only have to look at the experience of Denmark and Germany that are now burdened with the highest retail electricity prices in the EU by a long way after going down the path the likes of Pat Rabbitte, Eamonn Ryan etc. would have us go down. Heavy industry in Germany is starting to pack up despite the government there giving billions of euros to industrial users in compensation for higher electricity prices. Ireland cannot afford such an expense and our chances of attracting energy intensive industry will be severely compromised not to mention the overall negative effects for the economy of a steep rise in bills for domestic users. Trashing the Irish countryside to bring this folly about is dumb economics given that our unspoilt image is the greatest money spinner for our tourism and food sectors

Your very last point Birdnuts - is the big point that many commentators in media - and more importantly - Eirgrid and Pat Rabbite have failed to address.

To my mind - harming industries - like tourism and food - in order to help another industry that is of dubious benefit (wind) is poor planning.

My own concern and interest in this - is ensuring that Rural Ireland continues to survive as a place with good communities enjoying decent quality of life.

Old diesel

Good loser wrote: »

No there, the health issues (?) have been disposed of again and again. No more money should be wasted on those.

Can't see the pylons having the slightest impact on tourism or our food producers image - what's that anyway?

Have had Eirgrid on my land twice in recent years - they were courteous and efficient. Not looking forward to months/years of stupid arguments and protests about this issue.

Yes - well - theres arguments on both sides on the health debate - to be frank the health concerns don't keep me awake at night or anything.

But theres conflicting arguments on the health issue - some say its an issue - some say not. Need to get the facts one way or another - so people can be reassured if no health issues - and if there are issues - we can address them in terms of how a project is designed/planned.

As for image of the tourism and Food - this is a far bigger concern for me then health issues - the reality is that the perception that Ireland is a place full of lovely beautiful countryside - actually helps bring tourists to this country - and helps sell our food abroad.

So that's a real issue I think that needs to be addressed better I think - if food and tourism is damaged irreparably by pylons etc - then we need replacement jobs.

Big white wind turbines won't do it for us - and its hard to see Govt commit to job creation in rural Ireland - when their focus is mostly towards urban areas like Dublin and Cork City - in terms of job creation.

Suckler

Old diesel wrote: »

To my mind - harming industries - like tourism and food - in order to help another industry that is of dubious benefit (wind) is poor planning.

My own concern and interest in this - is ensuring that Rural Ireland continues to survive as a place with good communities enjoying decent quality of life.

How does it harm the food sector? Why would it have any affect on good communities and quality of life?