Establish Aerial Array to get Saorview

Stinicker

I live in an area of wind turbine interference and for the last twelve months since the analogue switch-off I have been reliant on Sky but I cancelled it this week as my half price offer for the year ended and I'm not going to pay €35/month for to receive the Irish channels in just one room.

Last year in anticipation of the switchover I got a high gain aerial and spent €100 trying to get a stable Saorview picture but it is continuously disrupted by the Wind Farm and sometimes is totally unwatchable, basically if there is enough wind to fly a flag the turbines will be turning and I will have non-stop interference.

I then went down the Saorsat road wasting several hundred euro on a failure of a system. Saorsat has been nothing but a total failure as because where I live in Kerry I get gale-force winds year round and awful heavy rain and the Saorsat cuts out nearly as often as the Saorview with the Wind Farm interference.

My next door neighbour has the same issues and recently his chimney collapsed and he moved his aerial and has been getting improved Saorview signal. I am hopeful that there could be a solution to the Wind-Turbine interference as my neighbour seems to have fixed his problem but mine is still troublesome.

I have mountains on three sides of my house and the Wind Turbine farm lies direct in the path of the only Saorview signal from Mullaghanish, I am thinking if I can build or engineer some Aerial array that I may be able to capture enough signal to ensure interference free reception. I have 100% signal and only for the windturbines I could receive it on a coathanger as I am quite close to Mullaghanish.

I would not mind spending a few more Euro to get it sorted and could erect a high pole with antenna facing different directions so as to capture a bounced signal from the mountains nearby. I am thinking something along the lines of what enthusiasts along the East Coast used to use in the past to capture analogue from Wales. I am sure that there would need to be a spectrum analyzer employed to peak the signal as best as possible. As I say I am so sick of the issue that I just want it resolved and going back to Sky is no longer an option.

Saorsat cost me alot of money and wasted time and effort and basically I think that unless I get a 1.5m to 2m dish and enclose it with a 6 foot high wall on the three sides then it will never be stable and that is before you even take into account the lack of TV3, 3e and the fact it is not future proofed and will probably never see RTE1 in HD or UTV when they launch etc.

I have a feeling I maybe yet able to pull in a Saorview signal to skirt the Wind Turbine interference but it needs technical expertise and some help from experienced people.

Anyone?

beauf

Can you feed a signal from your neighbours house to yours?

Stinicker

beauf wrote: »

Can you feed a signal from your neighbours house to yours?

It would involve trenching tarmac on his side plus the cable run would be pretty long at 75 to 100 metres from his aerial to my TV. It is a non-runner so I just plan to duplicate his system as his Aerial is around 15 metres further North than mine.

I moved my the pole 5 metres last year and installed the high-gain and it went from continuously breaking-up to around 90% more stable but it still gets breakup and I want a flawless picture as nothing is more annoying.

I think if I move it off the roof onto a pole out in the lawn with the same declination as my neighbors that I may be able to eventually get interference free Saorview but I will need the most powerful aerial available (Mullaghanish ch. 21 & 24) and establish a grid array of two to four aerials to get it. I have seen such installations up the midlands getting Freeview DTT from Northern Ireland and similary in Wicklow and Dublin being used to capture Freeview DTT from Wales.

watty

A couple of medium gain aerials at opposite ends of roof (adjust length of coax on one) may work better.

It also sounds like your Saorsat install was poor.

rozeboosje

I wouldn't spend too much money on this kind of infrastructure ... TV and similar entertainment are moving to The Interwebz. It's only a matter of time. You do have an internet connection of some description (since you're posting this) but perhaps you might consider investing in that instead. Go fiber, or something ...

Stinicker

watty wrote: »

A couple of medium gain aerials at opposite ends of roof (adjust length of coax on one) may work better.

It also sounds like your Saorsat install was poor.

I'm going to try multiple aerials first and see what are the results, the thing is you have to wait about a month to see if it actually works because you have to account for all the different windturbine positions and varying speed of the blade rotations, weather etc. getting it working on the day is fine but on a stormy night three weeks later might be a very different story.

My Saorsat install is not the worst, I did do it myself but I borrowed a Horizon HD2 satellite meter to do it and peaked the signal as best I could but they are an absolute nightmare to align compared to a normal Sky dish for astra etc. What I or any installer have no control over is the weather and you just can't stop the dish arm vibrating violently in high winds and then when you add rain it sees the Saorsat signal drop to around 30% before pixelating and dropping picture. To need a 1 metre dish to receive signal in such a tiny country as Ireland is ridiculous.

rozeboosje wrote: »

I wouldn't spend too much money on this kind of infrastructure ... TV and similar entertainment are moving to The Interwebz. It's only a matter of time. You do have an internet connection of some description (since you're posting this) but perhaps you might consider investing in that instead. Go fiber, or something ...

I get 7mb on DSL which drops to 1mb after 18:00pm (Sky broadband crap service) and am damn lucky to even get that; there will never be e-Fibre here or UPC and my Internet connection cannot stream youtube in the evenings never mind trying an IPTV solution as you are suggesting.

zg3409

Is there any chance you could get a weak signal from another transmitter in another direction?

I would not recommend combining aerials right beside one another, as Watty said possibly two ordinary aerials spread far apart and possibly combined, may stop the problem. He is suggesting carefully adjusting the length of the cable, until the two signals combine, and hopefully this might minimise fluctuations.

As far as I understand the wind turbines cause the signal levels to dramatically change many times a second and send time delayed reflections that mess up the signal. Possibly combining aerials from two seperate locations may stop this sort of modern "ghosting" from the same transmitter.

On the Saorsat front, it will probably get RTE1 HD but possibly never TV3 or other new commercial channels. If you use a commercial grade dish, and possibly as you say a wind shield, it should be possible to get a 99% reliable signal. You could possibly use a tooway internet dish with it's tria. These are commercial grade, and I have adapted them for receiving Saorsat. They are designed for a 20Ghz signal and they actually help you to align the system by beeping when the signal is peaked. There should, in theory, be no reason why you should not be able to get a dish that does not move in the wind. These dishes are rock solid in high winds, if they are mounted on a large stable pole.

pegasuspub

what make of dish were you using for saorsat?

Oscarziggy

Stinicker.
I receiver the Saorsat service across the water from you on the Pembrokeshire coast --- right on the extreme of the footprint using a KA lnb offset from the KU lnb on a 1.3M prime focus dish so not at the focus point.
I have never lost signal no matter how hard it rains or how hard the wind blows --- and it does blow here !!
I would have another go at realigning the dish .........what size was it?
Regards

Stinicker

pegasuspub wrote: »

what make of dish were you using for saorsat?

It is a generic one metre satellite dish I bought from a UK site called Wizard Satellite in 2009 and I used it for a motorised system up until last October when I reassigned it to Saorsat duty instead. This is the dish when I set it up with the motor back in 2010.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_potJBr0SY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfbzemG6M3A

I have since removed the Motor and mounted it on the same pole and replaced the LNB with a KA-Band LNB, in January of 2013 it was blown off alignment by a storm and I had to realign it for a second time.

Peter Rhea

Stinicker wrote: »

I have since removed the Motor and mounted it on the same pole and replaced the LNB with a KA-Band LNB

Is it still stuck up on the end of the pole there? Does it need to be?

Oscarziggy

Stinicker.
When you bolted it directly to the pole and aligned it on 9e did you try rotating the lnb a degree or 2 ?
If I remember the Saorsat service uses circular polarisation.
Regards

http://s1224.photobucket.com/user/ziggyoscar/media/IrishKAlnb.jpg.html?sort=3&o=6

rozeboosje

Stinicker wrote: »

there will never be e-Fibre here or UPC

How isolated are you? If you're in a location so remote that your nearest neighbour is a good distance away I imagine you are going to find it very hard to get decent internet connectivity during your lifetime.... You can hang in there and wait for a technological breakthrough that will make it possible for you, but it might not happen during your lifetime. One thing you might want to check out is mobile 4G coverage. Would that be any use to you?

But if you have some neighbours in relatively close proximity and who all are in the same boat as yourself then maybe there's a glimmer of hope. You could get together and approach the providers as a group. It's been done before, and successfully.

Stinicker

Peter Rhea wrote: »

Is it still stuck up on the end of the pole there? Does it need to be?

It is about 4 or 5 inches lower down the pole now. I had to have the dish elevated up high due a 9 foot high hedge to the rear of the house.

Oscarziggy wrote: »

Stinicker.
When you bolted it directly to the pole and aligned it on 9e did you try rotating the lnb a degree or 2 ?
If I remember the Saorsat service uses circular polarisation.
Regards

http://s1224.photobucket.com/user/ziggyoscar/media/IrishKAlnb.jpg.html?sort=3&o=6

I also have the LNB skew set correctly similar to you photo, it's value is set to 0 dead centre for my location as calculated on the SMWLink dish calculator tool.

I use a Technomate TM6900HD for reception of Saorsat and recently Saorsat is not even scanning right, it finds only two trial services and 5 TV channels and if I scan in the evening it will find RTE1+1hr but not RTÉJR and if I scan in the day it will find RTÉJR and not RTÉ1+1hr, before the trial services launched it found and stored all 6 stations fine.

I know dozens of people who got Saorsat and not one person has anything good to say about it, it is not a stable platform and the amount of failed Ferguson and Xoro receivers is laughable, I'd say about 1/3 to 1/2 of people who got a Ferguson or Xoro stb receiver for Saorsat have seen them go faulty within the last 12 months.

Add in a huge ugly dish, lack of MHEG5 teletext, lacking TV3 and 3e, future services will not launch on Saorsat, total thrashy boxes like Xoro and Ferguson and all this before the huge costs associated and you generally have a totally inferior system for about 5 times the price of Saorview.

Stinicker

rozeboosje wrote: »

How isolated are you? If you're in a location so remote that your nearest neighbour is a good distance away I imagine you are going to find it very hard to get decent internet connectivity during your lifetime.... You can hang in there and wait for a technological breakthrough that will make it possible for you, but it might not happen during your lifetime. One thing you might want to check out is mobile 4G coverage. Would that be any use to you?

But if you have some neighbours in relatively close proximity and who all are in the same boat as yourself then maybe there's a glimmer of hope. You could get together and approach the providers as a group. It's been done before, and successfully.

Eircom ADSL+2 is about as good as it gets and I get 7mbs living 2.5kms from the local exchange. Before Eircom brought broadband in 2010 several techinical people locally (including myself) had banded together and beamed in broadband wirelessly from a premises in the next town over sending the signal across 10kms. We are now getting efibre in there next summer 2014 and we are currently making plans to upgrade the 6 year old link from 50mbps to a gigabit link and next summer I will have 70mbps coming in. However this still doesn't solve the problem of not having Saorview or any proper FTA TV service.

IPTV is massively data heavy when you think of the stream of data required and my currently 7mbps DSL connection definitely won't handle it. Eircom's current IPTV over e-fibre is supposed to be he biggest heap of junk going from what I have heard and that is not the answer to my problem either.

zg3409

Stinicker wrote: »

I also have the LNB skew set correctly similar to you photo, it's value is set to 0 dead centre for my location as calculated on the SMWLink dish calculator tool.

Saorsat has no Skew as it is circular polarisation. I took this photo years ago to prove that:



http://www.saorview.ie/about-saorview/saorsat/saorsat-technical-information/
http://www.saorview.ie/about-saorview/saorsat/

Even with the LNB on it's side or upside down it still works exactly the same.

If using Saorsat you should use a Satellite box with MHEG5 to get the guide etc. There was talk of a "Saorsat approved box" and I think it is Walkers WP95SAT-HD

Kerry is not "across from" Pembrokeshire. RTENL (or 2RN) recommend a much larger 1M dish with the LNB at the focus for reliable reception in Kerry, as presumably the signal is weaker there. A 1M dish at 20Ghz is very directional, and very senstivite to vibration. Ideally the dish should have been made for 20Ghz use, and be of commercial grade. I encourage people not to use fibreglass dishes as they probably were never designed for 20Ghz and some of the signal can seep through the dish, as they are basically made of fibreglass covered mesh. You might be able to strengthen the arm from wobbling in the wind. Sometimes even string can help.

Regarding the height of the dish on the pole, you may be surprised how low down it may actually work. Saorsat's signal comes in at an angle of around 24 degrees in Kerry. It is actually one of the highest Satellites in the Sky from an Irish point of view. Depending on the distance from the hedge you may be able to mount it lower. At 20ft from the hedge you could mount the dish on the ground, or 10ft away at 4.5ft high.

I would be very interested in a TV aerial solution to wind turbine interference. Generally the recommendation was to get Sky. There may be more and more people with this problem and a low cost simple solution would be good.

Oscarziggy

Stinicker wrote: »

........the amount of failed Ferguson and Xoro receivers is laughable, I'd say about 1/3 to 1/2 of people who got a Ferguson or Xoro stb receiver for Saorsat have seen them go faulty within the last 12 months.

Oh dear ---- I use a Xoro and have been for over 18 months without any problems including it's ability to read and display many video formats from a USB key.
I also use it for feed hunting from 45w to 42e.

Regards

Tony

What ferguson receiver are you referring to ? First I've heard of any failures of note and I'm in a good position to know.

Stinicker wrote: »

and the amount of failed Ferguson and Xoro receivers is laughable, I'd say about 1/3 to 1/2 of people who got a Ferguson or Xoro stb receiver for Saorsat

Antenna

If possible try different terrestrial receivers (get a loan of other receivers).
Its possible some receivers might be less affected by this time-varying multipath than others ?

Regarding moving the aerial, again try repositioning it to different positions left and right (from looking at the transmitter direction) with something that can support a temporary pole.

Souriau

What was the pitcure like from Sky?
Can you not get Free from Sky and also your Irish TV aswell via satellite without paying any sub?
Or even get Freesat but I know then you will not get Irish channels.
At lease you have stable picture while you spend time working on a way around the windfarm interference for your Saorview.

Stinicker

Tony wrote: »

What ferguson receiver are you referring to ? First I've heard of any failures of note and I'm in a good position to know.

Ferguson Arriva 120 Combo box, terrible machine have heard of serveral failures and I am not a fan of Ferguson stuff over this.

Antenna wrote: »

If possible try different terrestrial receivers (get a loan of other receivers).
Its possible some receivers might be less affected by this time-varying multipath than others ?

Regarding moving the aerial, again try repositioning it to different positions left and right (from looking at the transmitter direction) with something that can support a temporary pole.

This is my plan for the coming weekend. I have 5 different devices capable of receiving Saorview. I have 2 Panasonic TV's, an official Alba Saorview box from Argos, a Technomate 6900HD and a USB DVB-T stick which also accepts a male RF connector from an aerial.

Souriau wrote: »

What was the pitcure like from Sky?
Can you not get Free from Sky and also your Irish TV aswell via satellite without paying any sub?
Or even get Freesat but I know then you will not get Irish channels.
At lease you have stable picture while you spend time working on a way around the windfarm interference for your Saorview.

Picture on Sky was perfect all along and I have been a customer of Sky's since early 2001 until this week when I finally stopped it.

Irish TV is not available on Sky unless you have a subscription to them. The UK channels BBC etc. I have Freesat and while it is a beautiful and effective solution it lacks the Irish channels and the Irish channels will never go on that platform due to programme broadcasting rights, Freesat and Sky which share the same Astra 28.2 east satellite is receivable from Ireland to as far as Cyprus if you have a big enough dish.

Saorsat cover's the Island of Ireland but in my experience it has yet to prove itself a good enough platform and until there is statutory instrument providing for the duplication of Saorview on Saorsat then it will only ever be a total waste of time, money and effort.

Up until last October I had a perfect analogue reception from a nearby transmitter which was satellite fed and carried all 4 traditional analog channels and while the advent of Saorview has given more choice and available programming which is great however to find the analogue transmitter has gone offline and then be told Saorsat is an option, Saorsat is not an option as it has effectively 3 channels RTE1, RTE2 and TG4, the only person who might find Saorsat to be an improvement is a child in that they get RTEJR.


Has anybody got any tips for combing aerial feeds, would a straight T connector do or should I be looking at some type of distribution amplifier? I already have a high gain aerial at the south side of my property and I tried a mast-head amp on that but I found that the mast head amp actually worsened the turbine interference as it magnified the interference.

I plan to get another high gain aerial and mount it 30 metres north west of my existing aerial in a similar line of sight to the position which my neighbour reports an improved reception from. Is it possible that I could actually could have too much signal and all I want is a stable picture which won't look like this whenever the wind blows?

Souriau

I mean, can you not get Irish TV via Sky system for free.
Once you switch off the subscription from Sky, would you not then get the free channels and also the Irish channels from Sky?

Peter Rhea

Souriau wrote: »

Once you switch off the subscription from Sky, would you not then get the free channels and also the Irish channels from Sky?

If you could do that, why would anyone bother with Saorsat or even Saorview in a lot of cases?

Stinicker

Souriau wrote: »

I mean, can you not get Irish TV via Sky system for free.
Once you switch off the subscription from Sky, would you not then get the free channels and also the Irish channels from Sky?

No, once you stop paying Sky you only get a handful of free channels.

Before an older Sky box could be used to receive the free english channels bbc's, itvs etc. however Sky have since crippled the newer SkyHD boxes once they are out of contract so that you can't even receive the free UK channels BBC, ITV etc. and the only way to get them on a Sky+HD is if you have a "Freesat from Sky" or ex UK sub card. I have one of these and without it the Sky box would stay stuck to RTE1 at 101 etc. which you then could not view as they are pay channels on the Sky platform.

The best solution for receiving the English channels is to use a branded UK Freesat box and not a satellite receiver which will need retuning practically every second week as the channels or constantly changing tuning parameters and moving satellites. The 28.2 East position which people receive Sky and Freesat from is actually occupied by four different artificial satellites in outer space orbiting the earth. Both Freesat and Sky receive their channels from each of these which why the tuning is constantly moving. Without a Freesat branded box you will constantly be losing channels as the Freesat box is a smart box which gets the signal to retune and when a channel changes frequency or moves satellite the Freesat box will update itself and Joe Soap will be none the wiser of the technical change, however on any other satellite box the channel will go offline.

A similar situation is now emerging with non Saorview certified receivers which are retuned since the 2nd Mux went live across the country people have had to retune their receivers and have found RTE1 at something like channel 9 or 11, a Saorview certified device knows to put RTE1 etc. in their correct position. For reasons like these people should always buy approved branded Freesat and Saorview hardware, especially if it will be used by a non-technical person.

I know a person who's cowboy installer used a non branded receiver which subsequently lost loads of satellite channels due to this and the same installer had even the cheek to have changed the pin on the device and wanted to charge a large fee for to retune back in the channels. She since replaced the box with a Freesat box from the UK (on my advice) and her TV is new with Saorview built-in so a Freesat branded box worked far better for her needs than the combo sat/dvb-t box.

Souriau

I am not sure how things works in Eire for Sky when come to the end of subscription, as in NI or UK, we can get the free channels, FreeSat from Sky.
I am only asking is that possible.

Stinicker

Souriau wrote: »

I am not sure how things works in Eire for Sky when come to the end of subscription, as in NI or UK, we can get the fre channels, FreeSat from Sky.
I am only asking is that possible.

Not possible here I'm afraid.

cranefly

When you stop subscribing to sky in the republic you loose the right to watch the four main irish channels on the sky platform, you will still get a host off free channels without a subscription using the same dish and the same box.
The sky plus hd box without a subscription will have the channel list as an irish box starting with rte 1 at position 1. and so on. The older boxes use to revert to an english line-up with bbc-1 london at position 1. Although in either case it is alot easier to set up your channels in the favourites position using the blue button.

It is hard to see a solution for the guy in kerry having trouble with his tv signal, wind turbines giving trouble with the tv signal i never heard about that before, maybe as you are so near mullaghanish if you can get your saorview aerial high enough to pick up the signal, i would try an ordinary uhf aerial with a red tip, not a high gain one as that might just boost interferance from the turbines as well.
i hope you can find a solution, as the quality of the saorview signal in mallow is superb, it is better even than the irish channels on sky.

Tony

Sorry you had a problem with it . I've sold several hundred of the units and the failure rate was 0.05% which is well below the industry average . There was one bad batch which had a component problem, but I don't think it makes it a "terrible box" . It has since been replaced by the 150 model.

Stinicker wrote: »

Ferguson Arriva 120 Combo box, terrible machine have heard of serveral failures and I am not a fan of Ferguson stuff over this.

whitebriar

Stinicker wrote: »

Eircom ADSL+2 is about as good as it gets and I get 7mbs living 2.5kms from the local exchange. Before Eircom brought broadband in 2010 several techinical people locally (including myself) had banded together and beamed in broadband wirelessly from a premises in the next town over sending the signal across 10kms. We are now getting efibre in there next summer 2014 and we are currently making plans to upgrade the 6 year old link from 50mbps to a gigabit link and next summer I will have 70mbps coming in. However this still doesn't solve the problem of not having Saorview or any proper FTA TV service.

IPTV is massively data heavy when you think of the stream of data required and my currently 7mbps DSL connection definitely won't handle it. Eircom's current IPTV over e-fibre is supposed to be he biggest heap of junk going from what I have heard and that is not the answer to my problem either.

With that download,live tv from the Rte player works well.

You could also put a sling box at your neighbours or any friends or relatives and watch at home via that if they have unlimited data.
A sling player in your house would put it onto your tv or watch via an app on an iPad.

Costs about 100 euros.

Jpmarn

whitebriar wrote: »

With that download,live tv from the Rte player works well.

You could also put a sling box at your neighbours or any friends or relatives and watch at home via that if they have unlimited data.
A sling player in your house would put it onto your tv or watch via an app on an iPad.

Costs about 100 euros.

With regards of installing a Sling box at a neighbours you will have to consider the upload bandwidth your neighbour has. Most DSL connections would have no more than 512kps. You will not get a get a decent picture with that bandwidth. If your neighbour has Efibre or a connection with an upload bandwidth of at least 2mps it should work ok.

Galway

Stinicker wrote: »

I have 100% signal and only for the windturbines I could receive it on a coathanger as I am quite close to Mullaghanish.

Given you are receiving from Mullaghanish I would advise you not to use a cheap WB or T group aerial. A good quality group A aerial may help. (muxes on channels 21 and 24). As you are in a strong signal area you may wish to try out a log periodic though to see if it minimises the interference in any way.

whitebriar

Jpmarn wrote: »

With regards of installing a Sling box at a neighbours you will have to consider the upload bandwidth your neighbour has. Most DSL connections would have no more than 512kps. You will not get a get a decent picture with that bandwidth. If your neighbour has Efibre or a connection with an upload bandwidth of at least 2mps it should work ok.

Incorrect,I use a slingbox with that sort of upload (512 at best)and it works fine

byte

Tony wrote: »

Sorry you had a problem with it . I've sold several hundred of the units and the failure rate was 0.05% which is well below the industry average . There was one bad batch which had a component problem, but I don't think it makes it a "terrible box" . It has since been replaced by the 150 model.

Yep, I agree, the 120's have been quite reliable, barring the few I had with the known issue. I've not had much, if any, issues with the 150, which also has a much better laid out remote IMO.

Sorry for OT.

Hotblack Desiato

Three things:

1. Have you contacted the wind turbine operators? Are they willing to help out in any way? They're probably not obliged to, but if they have any other developments in the pipeline, start hinting that you'll be making planning objections (you don't even need to live in the area to object.)

2. Aligning the aerial away from the transmitter a bit is an old trick to minimise ghosting, if the problem is delayed reflections off the blades then minimising the response of your aerial in that direction will help.

3. It's not really fair to dismiss Saorsat entirely, on the basis of an amateur installation and what looks like a cheapo dish. Alignment on Ka-band is far more critical so the initial set-up needs to be spot on and the dish, mount and LNB arm must be rigid.

Edit: it would also be worth informing 2RN (aka RTENL) of your predicament and asking them if there is any prospect of a relay in your area, and if all else fails a self-help relay might be a possibility depending on the number of households affected. If it's only you, and there really is no other option, then a basic Sky sub isn't exactly the end of the world, at least you can still get TV.

Tony

I know televes has some "anti ghosting" aerials which might be worth checking out.

Peter Rhea

I'd say every aerial manufacturer has claimed 'anti-ghosting' properties for their more directional aerials, since TV began.

Oscarziggy

I remember someone trying to sell me a colour valve years ago !!
Regards

Tony

Perhaps but I had used these back in analogue days and they did make a difference

Peter Rhea wrote: »

I'd say every aerial manufacturer has claimed 'anti-ghosting' properties for their more directional aerials, since TV began.

Stinicker

Tony wrote: »

Perhaps but I had used these back in analogue days and they did make a difference

If you have a link to them or sell them in your satellite.ie store I'd certainly take a look at them and try one to see if they make any difference.

Satellite.ie: Tony

Stinicker wrote: »

If you have a link to them or sell them in your satellite.ie store I'd certainly take a look at them and try one to see if they make any difference.

Unfortunately I do not sell them but they look like this
http://www.televes.com/en/catalogo/antenas-dat-hd-boss-mix

Ronnie Raygun

That specific aerial is a band III/UHF combo. The 2nd reflector won't be intended to lessen "ghosting" on UHF.

Are you referring to the tri-boom Televes aerials in general?

watty

The Tri-boom aerials are pointless ice traps and wind catchers.

Tony

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

Are you referring to the tri-boom Televes aerials in general?

Yep that was just an idea of what they look like.