Leaving rental, Use last month as deposit?

Thomas D

I'm emigrating soon and I will be leaving my rental. Now the past tenants texted us and said they had problems with the landlord when leaving. Our lease says we have to allow viewings before we leave. No way am I going to allow that as we have a new baby. If the landlord was going to mess us around with a deposit then we'd have no way of getting it back being out of the country.
So surely not paying the last months rent is the only fair way of proceeding with zero repercussions?

UDP

Your deposit is not for the last months rent. If you don't pay the last months rent you will be in breach of your contract. Unfortunately there is very little that the landlord can do about it especially if the tenants are moving abroad. Just remember you won't get a reference but you may not need that abroad. It's a pretty dickish move imo and it seems to me that you want people here to validate that it is ok to do.

MagicMarker

What's having a new baby got to do with anything? You seriously think your landlord should wait until after you leave for him to try and rent it out again?

Don't be so ridiculous.

Grandpa Hassan

Thomas D wrote: »

I'm emigrating soon and I will be leaving my rental. Now the past tenants texted us and said they had problems with the landlord when leaving. Our lease says we have to allow viewings before we leave. No way am I going to allow that as we have a new baby. If the landlord was going to mess us around with a deposit then we'd have no way of getting it back being out of the country.
So surely not paying the last months rent is the only fair way of proceeding with zero repercussions?

Using the deposit as the last months rent is out of order unless the LL specifically agrees it with you. Unfortunately there's nothing the LL can do though, other than refuse to give a reference. It's not what the deposit is for, and it is the kind if behaviour that antagonises landlords and further damages the relationship between LLs and tenants in Ireland

D3PO

I hate idiot tenants as much as I hate idiot landlords. OP I will leave you try figure out if you fall into the first category

ted1

Thomas D wrote: »

I'm emigrating soon and I will be leaving my rental. Now the past tenants texted us and said they had problems with the landlord when leaving. Our lease says we have to allow viewings before we leave. No way am I going to allow that as we have a new baby. If the landlord was going to mess us around with a deposit then we'd have no way of getting it back being out of the country.
So surely not paying the last months rent is the only fair way of proceeding with zero repercussions?

If you have done damage to the place it's not a fair way.

If you are going to keep it, fix any damage, clean the place and wash the walls with sugar soap

womandriver

MagicMarker wrote: »

What's having a new baby got to do with anything? You seriously think your landlord should wait until after you leave for him to try and rent it out again?

Don't be so ridiculous.

Why is it ridiculous? I certainly won't be facilitating viewings when we're vacating our rented property. The landlord is running a business, we pay our rent and abide by the terms of the lease and that's the extent of my interest in it. It's his own concern how he arranges re-letting but he won't be doing viewings while we still live here.

Mycroft H

You agreed to it in your lease....

cerastes

womandriver wrote: »

Why is it ridiculous? I certainly won't be facilitating viewings when we're vacating our rented property. The landlord is running a business, we pay our rent and abide by the terms of the lease and that's the extent of my interest in it. It's his own concern how he arranges re-letting but he won't be doing viewings while we still live here.

Its very likely in the conditions of the lease, to allow the landlord or an agent appointed for the purpose access to facilitate viewings, so you might not be abiding by the conditions of the lease, also its not unreasonable to cooperate with letting the landlord access for that purpose.

D3PO

womandriver wrote: »

Why is it ridiculous? I certainly won't be facilitating viewings when we're vacating our rented property. The landlord is running a business, we pay our rent and abide by the terms of the lease and that's the extent of my interest in it. It's his own concern how he arranges re-letting but he won't be doing viewings while we still live here.

Just as landlords have obligations so do tenants.

Have a read of the RTA 2004 before coming out with ill informed comment.

womandriver

D3PO wrote: »

Just as landlords have obligations so do tenants.

Have a read of the RTA 2004 before coming out with ill informed comment.

My "ill informed" comment is based on my lease, there is nothing in my lease in relation to viewings and I won't be facilitating them.

Grandpa Hassan

womandriver wrote: »

My "ill informed" comment is based on my lease, there is nothing in my lease in relation to viewings and I won't be facilitating them.

You won't even facilitate it when you're out? Wow.....some attitude you have there

womandriver

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

You won't even facilitate it when you're out? Wow.....some attitude you have there

Yes, it's the attitude that I don't want strangers in my home. Bizarre, I know.

odds_on

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Using the deposit as the last months rent is out of order unless the LL specifically agrees it with you. Unfortunately there's nothing the LL can do though, other than refuse to give a reference. It's not what the deposit is for, and it is the kind if behaviour that antagonises landlords and further damages the relationship between LLs and tenants in Ireland

It also increases the idea that landlords should look for more than one month's rent as a deposit - new thinking =1.5x rent and even 2x rent.

sunnysoutheast

womandriver wrote: »

Yes, it's the attitude that I don't want strangers in my home. Bizarre, I know.

Do you only go to view vacant/empty properties out of principle then?

womandriver

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

Do you only go to view vacant/empty properties out of principle then?

Where did I suggest it was based on principle? It's my preference not to have strangers in my home. What other people decide is their own business.

dutcher

Just don't pay last months rent. That's what I do now. They always say somethings wrong after cleaning it head to toe or say they will post out check, it never happens. Best one yet was it would cost 200 euro to bring out a painter and buy paint because we dirtied the walls even though there was nothing wrong with them. I only rented apartments shared or a room in a house but the majority of landlords out there are money hungry and will try any means of keeping the deposit. If someone goes to the PTRB about them they will personally drive to your house and hand over the money.

jd83

Every place I have ever rented I have had difficulty getting the deposit back. I have always kept the place clean and tidy and always taken photos when I moved in. When it comes to getting the deposit back, I get excuses and its a long struggle until they realize im not going away.

So I can see where the op is coming from. I know the deposit is not for the last months rent. Its head wrecking when you want to move and your relying on the deposit for your next home and your getting excuses or ridiculous claims of costs to fix things. If i break or damage something im more than happy to have it deducted from the deposit. Id probably have had it fixed before it came to that anyway. But some stingy miser just out to make more money out of me is another thing. We need some sort of third party deposit holding scheme here.

Op id read your lease again, having the ll show the property during the last month is normal everywhere. Obviously they would do it at a time that suits you, but its in every lease i have ever had.

Grandpa Hassan

womandriver wrote: »

Yes, it's the attitude that I don't want strangers in my home. Bizarre, I know.

Thanks womandriver. You may have done me a service here. I will make double sure from now on that the ability to arrange viewings is specifically written in to the lease.

I am a reluctant landlord....forced to move because of my job, and I try to cover part of my mortgage with rent (nowhere near all), whilst also renting somewhere else. A tenant with your attitude would be an absolute nightmare for someone like me, trying to keep his head above water.

I will make sure from now on that I don't suffer if I rent to someone else with your attitude

awec

As with most things, a bit of common sense and common courtesy are a huge help in my opinion.

People need to remember that not all landlords in Ireland are actually a business making profit - many of them are forced to become landlords and I am sure in many cases the rent they receive is only paying part of the mortgage they are paying on a property. Having a property empty for a few weeks may not be a simple case of writing it off as expenses.

I am not sure why anyone would want to make things deliberately more difficult for these people - if you have had a good relationship with your landlord I fail to see why facilitating viewings at a time to suit you would be an issue. There is no need to be awkward for the sake of it - what goes around tends to come around.

wexie

womandriver wrote: »

Yes, it's the attitude that I don't want strangers in my home. Bizarre, I know.

Probably just as well that most landlords don't take that attitude, the rental market would get a lot tighter.

sept09baby

I know a lot of people who have used the deposit as the last month's rent but it was always with the landlords agreement. I have only rented once, my landlady was a total nightmare but I still wouldn't think this was fair

Koptain Liverpool

Have a bit of common sense would you.

Yes use your deposit for the last month rent. While not technically allowed under the terms of a lease there's no harm in it imo.
As long as you have no damage done to the apartment that is.

As for allowing viewings of the apartment -cop yourself on. So what if you have a baby? A viewing just involves a few people having a look around for a few minutes. I hate people with babies who have the attiture that the world revolves around them because of the baby. If you do make a fuss about the viewings I hope that you encounter equally uncourteous attitudes in your own affairs in the years ahead.

womandriver

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Thanks womandriver. You may have done me a service here. I will make double sure from now on that the ability to arrange viewings is specifically written in to the lease.

I am a reluctant landlord....forced to move because of my job, and I try to cover part of my mortgage with rent (nowhere near all), whilst also renting somewhere else. A tenant with your attitude would be an absolute nightmare for someone like me, trying to keep his head above water.

I will make sure from now on that I don't suffer if I rent to someone else with your attitude

You should do whatever is best for you but your tenant is not your friend nor are you doing each other any kind of favour. It's a business arrangement. My attitude is that I do not wish to have strangers in my home. I pay good money each month for that privilege.

Thomas D

I don't want people in my private home whilst I'm paying thousands a month. The rta 2004 fully supports me in this.

Grandpa Hassan

womandriver wrote: »

You should do whatever is best for you but your tenant is not your friend nor are you doing each other any kind of favour. It's a business arrangement. My attitude is that I do not wish to have strangers in my home. I pay good money each month for that privilege.

We are not there to to each other favours. But I like it believe that we are each cooperative and just generally nice human beings

womandriver

wexie wrote: »

Probably just as well that most landlords don't take that attitude, the rental market would get a lot tighter.

Well that's a lot of landlord's problem right there. Thinking you are allowing a tenant to live in your "home" as if you're doing them a favour. I don't suppose you are letting them in your home for the money at all. Some people haven't grasped the concept of being a landlord.

The_Morrigan

Quit the sniping or I'll be handing out infractions.

/Mod

OP you cannot use your deposit as your last months rent - end of.

Thomas D

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Quit the sniping or I'll be handing out infractions.

/Mod

OP you cannot use your deposit as your last months rent - end of.

What is stopping me?

Grandpa Hassan

Thomas D wrote: »

What is stopping me?

Unfortunately very little as the legislation is so weak. But you won't get a reference. Which will reduce the pool of available properties for you next time around

Thomas D

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Unfortunately very little as the legislation is so weak. But you won't get a reference. Which will reduce the pool of available properties for you next time around

My job reference is the only thing needed abroad and I'll be buying in 6 months. I also have 3-4 rental references here already.

The_Morrigan

Thomas D wrote: »

What is stopping me?

Your obligations as a tenant under the RTA and more than likely your contract with the landlord. It's also a really pissy thing to do as the deposit is to ensure the landlord is not left short if you have broken something or left unpaid bills.
I'm sure if the landlord was breaching his obligations you'd be calling for blood!

Grandpa Hassan

Thomas D wrote: »

My job reference is the only thing needed abroad and I'll be buying in 6 months. I also have 3-4 rental references here already.

Geez...:I'm out. A good illustration of the dysfunctional LL v tenant relationship in Ireland. And a good illustration that it is not always the LL acting up....there are bad tenants out there too

Thomas D

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

Geez...:I'm out. A good illustration of the dysfunctional LL v tenant relationship in Ireland. And a good illustration that it is not always the LL acting up....there are bad tenants out there too

I resent that. He's had two years of hassle free landlording. Rent on time, every month. Rang twice about some minor issues. Quiet tenants that get on with out neighbours. House will be left in better condition than we got it. All I want is my legal entitlement to privacy and my deposit. This will secure both.

The_Morrigan

Thomas D wrote: »

I resent that. He's had two years of hassle free landlording. Rent on time, every month. Rang twice about some minor issues. Quiet tenants that get on with out neighbours. House will be left in better condition than we got it. All I want is my legal entitlement to privacy and my deposit. This will secure both.

Thomas D the landlord is also allowed his legal entitlement.

drumswan

Despite the OPs belligerent attitude, I don't facilitate viewings when in a property either. If you are paying twelve to fifteen grand annually to someone it's hardly too much to ask for exclusive use.

djimi

cerastes wrote: »

Its very likely in the conditions of the lease, to allow the landlord or an agent appointed for the purpose access to facilitate viewings, so you might not be abiding by the conditions of the lease, also its not unreasonable to cooperate with letting the landlord access for that purpose.

One of the fundamental rights of a tenant is the right to peaceful enjoyment of the property for the duration of the tenancy. This includes the last month, and I don't think many people would consider a landlord bringing strangers into their home as peaceful enjoyment. As such, I would question the validity of any clause in a lease requires that the tenant facilitate viewings of this nature. A lease, let's not forget, cannot legally contain any clauses which seek to reduce the minimum rights afforded to the tenant.

awec

djimi wrote: »

One of the fundamental rights of a tenant is the right to peaceful enjoyment of the property for the duration of the tenancy. This includes the last month, and I don't think many people would consider a landlord bringing strangers into their home as peaceful enjoyment. As such, I would question the validity of any clause in a lease requires that the tenant facilitate viewings of this nature. A lease, let's not forget, cannot legally contain any clauses which seek to reduce the minimum rights afforded to the tenant.

I don't think a few viewings during a month really affects peace and enjoyment at all.

What would they do if they were selling a property? Wait until they had moved out before having viewings?

ballyharpat

Having read the above, I cannot believe the attitude of people, I have two rentals, I am very fair with my tenants and do what is required of me, they do the same. I am hoping that when one of them moves, that they would realise that this is a business for me, the property losing a months rent because I can't 'show' it, is not very good etiquette, and is actually being a real pain in the arse, I would actually go out of my way and report these tenants to prtb and any other forum or otherwise, I would state their names and it would not be slander, as it would be true. The viewing s would be suited to the current tenants, once a week for the last month of the rental. Bless these people above, karma is a b***h

womandriver

ballyharpat wrote: »

Having read the above, I cannot believe the attitude of people, I have two rentals, I am very fair with my tenants and do what is required of me, they do the same. I am hoping that when one of them moves, that they would realise that this is a business for me, the property losing a months rent because I can't 'show' it, is not very good etiquette, and is actually being a real pain in the arse, I would actually go out of my way and report these tenants to prtb and any other forum or otherwise, I would state their names and it would not be slander, as it would be true. The viewing s would be suited to the current tenants, once a week for the last month of the rental. Bless these people above, karma is a b***h

Report tenants for what? Cos if you're talking about the viewings issue - you're off your rocker! On what grounds do you think you'd be reporting them? If you are the type of novice landlord that's out there, I pity tenants who don't know their rights.

ballyharpat

Not even going to merit you wit a point by point response, just google this- can a landlord show a property I am renting

like I said, do whatever you want, but Karma is a b***h. You are denying them that rental period if they cannot show prior to you moving out, My tenants are perfectly happy, any complaint is resolved asap.. But realising that there are people like you out there-I will make sure to stress that point when it comes to renting out to future tenants. A novice??? what is a professional??? I have had tenants for the last 13 years in this country, have been caretaker for 4 properties in USA for 6 years and was a tenant for 11 years in various properties in USA.

dutcher

ballyharpat wrote: »

Not even going to merit you wit a point by point response, just google this- can a landlord show a property I am renting

like I said, do whatever you want, but Karma is a b***h. You are denying them that rental period if they cannot show prior to you moving out, My tenants are perfectly happy, any complaint is resolved asap.. But realising that there are people like you out there-I will make sure to stress that point when it comes to renting out to future tenants. A novice??? what is a professional??? I have had tenants for the last 13 years in this country, have been caretaker for 4 properties in USA for 6 years and was a tenant for 11 years in various properties in USA.

No such thing as Karma. Landlords can be equally as bad.

its me_330

Op im on the same thoughts as you. If u were told the landlord can be difficult to get deposit back from use your deposit as last months rent. U wont be out of pocket at the end of the day. I know its not right but f**k it at least u wont b out of pocket

_Kaiser_

I have never once viewed a property while someone was still living in it, nor have I been asked to allow the LL/random punters to walk through the place with all my stuff there (under my supervision or otherwise)

The OP is paying for a service (and probably paying a fair sum for it too). Seeing as LL's reckon they can now start hiking rents again because "the good times are coming back", I'm sure they'll have no problem renting the place again AFTER the OP has left - how long it takes isn't their problem really. They're paying for the exclusive and uninterrupted use of the property until the day the lease expires.

And before I get told I have a chip or something.. I've been renting since I moved out of home 18 years ago and have never had any issues with a landlord, have always treated them fairly and accommodated them (within reason) where necessary, kept the place as if it were my own, and have been given several glowing references as a result - but I also have certain expectations and standards that I expect to be met in return for my hard-earned money and I don't suffer muppetry gladly.. some of the stuff I read on this forum I would never tolerate!

This nonsense attitude on this forum that LL's are somehow doing people a favour renting to them and therefore tenants shouldn't expect stuff done in a timely competent manner, or to be treated as equals not peasants who can't afford their own house etc really annoys me.

Aka Ishur

For me its simple. If the landlord plays by the rules I'll be nice, but if as every landlord I've had bar one, decides taxes aren't his/her thing, the PRTB don't need to know etc, I'm sorry why would I think you are going to be honest with me? I have never left damage above standard wear and tear. I've fixed/improved/secure/insulated places. Never left bills behind. Yet in my experience (and I stress this is JUST my experience) every landlord since I was a student tried to pull a fast one. Last month rent - use the deposit.

dutcher

What usually happens is the Landlord will put the property on the Internet a month or so before the person has moved out to start getting interest and arrange a viewing date for all people interested when the Person has moved out. Why do Landlords think there doing people favors by renting to them? Give them a months free rent if you feels its okay to invade their home and private living space.

_Kaiser_

ballyharpat wrote: »

Having read the above, I cannot believe the attitude of people, I have two rentals, I am very fair with my tenants and do what is required of me, they do the same. I am hoping that when one of them moves, that they would realise that this is a business for me, the property losing a months rent because I can't 'show' it, is not very good etiquette, and is actually being a real pain in the arse, I would actually go out of my way and report these tenants to prtb and any other forum or otherwise, I would state their names and it would not be slander, as it would be true. The viewing s would be suited to the current tenants, once a week for the last month of the rental. Bless these people above, karma is a b***h

As above, no such thing as Karma

Simple answer here is to arrange your viewings in advance for the day after your tenant leaves.

djimi

awec wrote: »

I don't think a few viewings during a month really affects peace and enjoyment at all.

What would they do if they were selling a property? Wait until they had moved out before having viewings?

Technically, yes. The tenant is under no obligation to allow anyone but the landlord into the property, and even at that it is only to carry out periodic prearranged inspections. If the landlord wants to arrange viewings then that is their own problem, and they have no legal right to disrupt the tenants peaceful enjoyment of the property when doing so. For the duration of the tenancy it is the tenants home, and they are entitled to expect full privacy until the day they move out.

I'm not necessarily saying that I wouldn't accommodate a landlords request to allow viewings; it depends on the relationship that we have, and whether they are being respectful about it and not expecting bring people to the house every second day.

Greenmachine

djimi wrote: »

Technically, yes. The tenant is under no obligation to allow anyone but the landlord into the property, and even at that it is only to carry out periodic prearranged inspections. If the landlord wants to arrange viewings then that is their own problem, and they have no legal right to disrupt the tenants peaceful enjoyment of the property when doing so. For the duration of the tenancy it is the tenants home, and they are entitled to expect full privacy until the day they move out.

I'm not necessarily saying that I wouldn't accommodate a landlords request to allow viewings; it depends on the relationship that we have, and whether they are being respectful about it and not expecting bring people to the house every second day.

Some people here are being ridiculously unreasonable. How much bother is it to let the landlord in for some pre-arranged showings of the apartment. I have never taken issue with a landlord requesting this nor should one. Seem a few in here have a chip on their shoulder. Carrying an attitude of us vs them, with landlords seen as some kind of evil rotten guy.

djimi

Greenmachine wrote: »

Some people here are being ridiculously unreasonable. How much bother is it to let the landlord in for some pre-arranged showings of the apartment. I have never taken issue with a landlord requesting this nor should one. Seem a few in here have a chip on their shoulder. Carrying an attitude of us vs them, with landlords seen as some kind of evil rotten guy.

It depends on the situation really. You have to remember that the property is still the tenants home, and as such still has all of the tenants property in it. While I probably wouldnt refuse a request for viewings from my landlord as we have a good relationship with them, I must admit that Im not entirely over the moon at the idea of a random stranger getting access to my home and getting a full view of everything that I own. If I had some parituclarly expensive equipment or whatever, there is absolutely no way that anyone I didnt know would be allowed in to view the property.

Anyway, ultimately its up to the tenant whether or not they want to allow viewings. Unreasonable as it might seem to refuse them, there is nothing in law that obligates the tenant to allow viewings, and as far as I can tell it is not legal for a landlord to write it into the lease that they must be allowed.

Potatoeman

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I have never once viewed a property while someone was still living in it, nor have I been asked to allow the LL/random punters to walk through the place with all my stuff there (under my supervision or otherwise)

The OP is paying for a service (and probably paying a fair sum for it too). Seeing as LL's reckon they can now start hiking rents again because "the good times are coming back", I'm sure they'll have no problem renting the place again AFTER the OP has left - how long it takes isn't their problem really. They're paying for the exclusive and uninterrupted use of the property until the day the lease expires.

And before I get told I have a chip or something.. I've been renting since I moved out of home 18 years ago and have never had any issues with a landlord, have always treated them fairly and accommodated them (within reason) where necessary, kept the place as if it were my own, and have been given several glowing references as a result - but I also have certain expectations and standards that I expect to be met in return for my hard-earned money and I don't suffer muppetry gladly.. some of the stuff I read on this forum I would never tolerate!

This nonsense attitude on this forum that LL's are somehow doing people a favour renting to them and therefore tenants shouldn't expect stuff done in a timely competent manner, or to be treated as equals not peasants who can't afford their own house etc really annoys me.

Ive never viewed a property with people still in it either. How do you know what is going to be left in the property or check wardrobes/cupboard space?
I thought landlords need to give two weeks notice to enter a property?