Police Federation says UVF ceasefire is over.

SoulandForm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-24983525

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_Federation_for_Northern_Ireland

This is not a source that can be said to be tied into Irish Republicanism or "Anti-Britishness"; therefore I hope that people will take it very seriously. Whatever you want to say about Sinn Fein they have condemned post-GFA armed actions in the strongest possible words. It needs to be brought home to the DUP what a dangerous game they are playing.

.jacksparrow.

Been obvious for quite a while now.

SoulandForm

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Been obvious for quite a while now.

Yes true- but that fact that someone from within the state apparatus is saying so very publicly is news.

TOMASJ

The cheif constable of the psni Matt Baggot mantains that and trouble caused by loyalists,I presume including last nights petrol bomb attack on the Aillance party office in east Belfast and the shooting of a 15 year old child in the legs at Coleraine Co Derry was not terrorist, but criminal

Personally i do not think the uvf was ever on ciesefire,

Happyman42

It's a further signal of the turmoil Unionism is in. It needs to face up to the fact that it is at a crossroads never mind make the choice of which road to take. Sundered from the identity they thought was an inalienable birthright it is floundering and rupturing. Could get very scary on the fringes over the next few years.

SoulandForm

TOMASJ wrote: »

The cheif constable of the psni Matt Baggot mantains that and trouble caused by loyalists,I presume including last nights petrol bomb attack on the Aillance party office in east Belfast and the shooting of a 15 year old child in the legs at Coleraine Co Derry was not terrorist, but criminal

Personally i do not think the uvf was ever on ciesefire,

The attack on Short Strand a while back now was the beginning of a new chapter- things should have been dealt with than.

But Northern Ireland is messed up- I think they dont want to deal with them incase something happens and they need them against violent Republicanism but if they dont deal with we will have violent Republicanism back again; it Loyalist thugs that set off the "Troubles".

TOMASJ

SoulandForm wrote: »

The attack on Short Strand a while back now was the beginning of a new chapter- things should have been dealt with than.

But Northern Ireland is messed up- I think they dont want to deal with them incase something happens and they need them against violent Republicanism but if they dont deal with we will have violent Republicanism back again; it Loyalist thugs that set off the "Troubles".

True, you wonder if these criminals were from rebublican areas would Mr Baggot be of the same opinion,
for example a pipe bomb was trown at a police car in Strabane Co Tyrone over the weekend their was no question about whether that attact was criminal or not, makes you wonder about what is going on .

SoulandForm

TOMASJ wrote: »

True, you wonder if these criminals were from rebublican areas would Mr Baggot be of the same opinion,
for example a pipe bomb was trown at a police car in Strabane Co Tyrone over the weekend their was no question about whether that attact was criminal or not, makes you wonder about what is going on .

Lets remember for a second that there are a lot of PUL working class that have put with these thugs on a 24/7 basis; while the Provos and the INLA have if not gone away at least become a shadow of their former selves people on the other side of the divide have to put up with so much crap. A left over from the Troubles that shows no sign of going away; why would they if the suspicion that they were more into power and violence than any political principle be true?

Yes of course we have internment through remand for those demeaned violent Republicans by the state, we have all sorts of dirty tricks and abuse going on in that regard; the thing is that violent Republicans are a threat to the British State if only the embryo of a threat. Loyalists are just a threat to nordies- and who cares about us?

newmug

SoulandForm wrote: »

Yes of course we have internment through remand for those demeaned violent Republicans by the state, we have all sorts of dirty tricks and abuse going on in that regard; the thing is that violent Republicans are a threat to the British State if only the embryo of a threat. Loyalists are just a threat to nordies- and who cares about us?

You would be surprised how many people care Soulandform! I care, my whole circle of friends, family and acquaintances care, we see the North as ours, as being temporarily cut off from the "real" Ireland, and we want it back. But its not worth a single human life, nay, a single drop of blood, so we want it back, with all you inhabitants alive and well! We pray for the North regularly, for all its people, for its future, for its past, for peace, for re-unification, for its welfare, and for its faith. We pray for you fellow human beings, fellow Christians, stuck up there due to political bull****. I wish Gods will would prevail.

getzls

Clearly the UVF are still on an official ceasefire, along with other Loyalist groups.

Republicans are not.

TOMASJ

getzls wrote: »

Clearly the UVF are still on an official ceasefire, along with other Loyalist groups.

Republicans are not.

Official ceasefire... tell that to the familys of near 30 people they have killed since Gusty Spence give his " abject and true remorse speech" when he spoke on behalf of the so called combined loyalist militery comand , so much for that apology

SoulandForm

newmug wrote: »

You would be surprised how many people care Soulandform! I care, my whole circle of friends, family and acquaintances care, we see the North as ours, as being temporarily cut off from the "real" Ireland, and we want it back. But its not worth a single human life, nay, a single drop of blood, so we want it back, with all you inhabitants alive and well! We pray for the North regularly, for all its people, for its future, for its past, for peace, for re-unification, for its welfare, and for its faith. We pray for you fellow human beings, fellow Christians, stuck up there due to political bull****. I wish Gods will would prevail.

Im not having a go at southerners; however your government throws money at the Orange Order and invites them to dinner at the Presidents house, while they in my opinion actively seek to prevent a civic as opposed to tribal society developing in the north, indeed stand side by side with UVF men on platforms ranting about the walls of Derry; its a non-issue in the south.

newmug

SoulandForm wrote: »

Im not having a go at southerners; however your government throws money at the Orange Order and invites them to dinner at the Presidents house, while they in my opinion actively seek to prevent a civic as opposed to tribal society developing in the north, indeed stand side by side with UVF men on platforms ranting about the walls of Derry; its a non-issue in the south.

WTF??? The govt. of the South doesn't throw money at anybody or anything! Dunno where you're getting that from! And its very much an issue in the South, A) it being on our occupied territory, the border being 45 mins up the road from Dublin, and C) half the country having relatives in the North!

SoulandForm

newmug wrote: »

WTF??? The govt. of the South doesn't throw money at anybody or anything! Dunno where you're getting that from! And its very much an issue in the South, A) it being on our occupied territory, the border being 45 mins up the road from Dublin, and C) half the country having relatives in the North!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7228291.stm

newmug

SoulandForm wrote: »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7228291.stm

Ah here, that was a once off, and an unpopular one at that. And anyway, the context of the thing was one of cross-border co-operation, all nicey-nicey and being friends with the enemy and all that.

SoulandForm

newmug wrote: »

Ah here, that was a once off, and an unpopular one at that. And anyway, the context of the thing was one of cross-border co-operation, all nicey-nicey and being friends with the enemy and all that.

Investigate it further. What do the Dublin-Wicklow Logde have to do with the border?

Its not a once off; the elite wants free trade and thats it.

SoulandForm

newmug wrote: »

Ah here, that was a once off, and an unpopular one at that. And anyway, the context of the thing was one of cross-border co-operation, all nicey-nicey and being friends with the enemy and all that.

What was this; http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/uda-chiefs-join-queen-at-irish-war-memorial-28618689.html

????

EireGun

newmug wrote: »

WTF??? The govt. of the South doesn't throw money at anybody or anything! Dunno where you're getting that from! And its very much an issue in the South, A) it being on our occupied territory, the border being 45 mins up the road from Dublin, and C) half the country having relatives in the North!

No, it's not 'on our occupied territory' because - may I remind you - in the Republic of Ireland, 94.4% of people voted in favour of the Northern Ireland Good Friday Agreement in 1998, and the subsequent amendment to the Irish Constitution to recognise Northern Ireland was part of the United Kingdom, and relent our claim to it.

Keep up.

SoulandForm

EireGun wrote: »

No, it's not 'on our occupied territory' because - may I remind you - in the Republic of Ireland, 94.4% of people voted in favour of the Northern Ireland Good Friday Agreement in 1998, and the subsequent amendment to the Irish Constitution to recognise Northern Ireland was part of the United Kingdom, and relent our claim to it.

Keep up.

Ah yeah but why did they do it? Because they wanted the troubles to end or because they were partitionist?

EireGun

SoulandForm wrote: »

Ah yeah but why did they do it? Because they wanted the troubles to end or because they were partitionist?

Doesn't matter. Practically everyone wanted peace. Fact is no one can say that Britain are 'occupying' Northern Ireland.

Happyman42

EireGun wrote: »

No, it's not 'on our occupied territory' because - may I remind you - in the Republic of Ireland, 94.4% of people voted in favour of the Northern Ireland Good Friday Agreement in 1998, and the subsequent amendment to the Irish Constitution to recognise Northern Ireland was part of the United Kingdom, and relent our claim to it.

Keep up.

We did not relinquish our aspiration to a United Ireland and the right to have that aspiration is enshrined in the GFA. To have that aspiration naturally means that NI is currently occupied.

smcgiff

Happyman42 wrote: »

We did not relinquish our aspiration to a United Ireland and the right to have that aspiration is enshrined in the GFA. To have that aspiration naturally means that NI is currently occupied.

Correct, there are nearly 2 million people living there.

NI is part of the UK, and will remain so until the majority there want to break away.

I'd like NI to be united with the ROI, but it's less likely now than ever before.

Catholics (from which the nationalist base traditionally comes from) are slowly but surely beginning to run the place up there. But, they still have the subvention and membership of a far larger country.

Culture wise, they have a lot in common with us in the south, but there's a lot of differences too.

It's the PUL community that are becoming more and more disenfranchised, hence the loyalists kicking off.

View

Happyman42 wrote: »

To have that aspiration naturally means that NI is currently occupied.

So, if the UK parliament express the aspiration to see a restored "United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland" (along pre-1922 lines) that would make the RoI "occupied territory" would it?

It seems you have a problem accepting the decision of the electorate to endorse the current political set-up in Ireland.

tdv123

Lets face the facts here. This problem is never going to go away.
This violence didn't start in 1969 that was just the current phase of centuries old conflict.

The UVF in 1912 introduced the gun back into Irish politics, they re-introduced it again in 1966 when they made a statement claiming they would kill known IRA men (IRA men to them was anybody who was a Catholic). And now their at again hoping to provoke a response from dissident Republicans.

If that happens we know CIRA & RIRA are unable to sustain a armed campaign against the security forces so this could lead to bloody tit-for-tat cycle of sectarian killings possibly even worse than when the troubles were at their peak.

EireGun

Happyman42 wrote: »

We did not relinquish our aspiration to a United Ireland and the right to have that aspiration is enshrined in the GFA. To have that aspiration naturally means that NI is currently occupied.

Aspiration or not, the only way Northern Ireland would become part of Ireland (the Republic of) is if the Northern Irish people voted so. They have the right to self-determination, and currently they (the majority) have aligned Northern Ireland with the United Kingdom. According to the last poll I saw (in September) just 3.8% want a united Ireland. It's their decision (Nordies), not ours and they have the lowest 'aspiration' for a united Ireland on record.

Anyway, a bit off topic.

gallag

Weekly republican bombs, murders, security threats and arms finds and the focus is always on the massively less troublesome loyalists.

.jacksparrow.

gallag wrote: »

Weekly republican bombs, murders, security threats and arms finds and the focus is always on the massively less troublesome loyalists.

The focus is always on the loyalists?

Really, come on now you know that's not true, their getting away with literally murder up there compared to republicans been harassed interned, falsely imprisoned for years awaiting trial.

Can't remember any arrests after the loyalists attacked the short strand and the children going to school.

junder

SoulandForm wrote: »

Investigate it further. What do the Dublin-Wicklow Logde have to do with the border?

Its not a once off; the elite wants free trade and thats it.

So if the Dublin and Wicklow lodge having nothing to do with the border, what then is the issue about them receiving money from thier government, they after all Irish citzens

junder

smcgiff wrote: »

Correct, there are nearly 2 million people living there.

NI is part of the UK, and will remain so until the majority there want to break away.

I'd like NI to be united with the ROI, but it's less likely now than ever before.

Catholics (from which the nationalist base traditionally comes from) are slowly but surely beginning to run the place up there. But, they still have the subvention and membership of a far larger country.

Culture wise, they have a lot in common with us in the south, but there's a lot of differences too.

It's the PUL community that are becoming more and more disenfranchised, hence the loyalists kicking off.

You are correct the PUL community is becoming more and more disenfranchised

Karl Stein

junder wrote: »

You are correct the PUL community is becoming more and more disenfranchised

And whose fault is that?

Fratton Fred

gallag wrote: »

Weekly republican bombs, murders, security threats and arms finds and the focus is always on the massively less troublesome loyalists.

It's all about the branding.

If those in the UVF who wanted to carry out criminal activities had rebranded themselves the CUVF or RUVF it wouldn't be a problem.

Oh, they would have to do their racketeering in Dublin or Limerick as well.

Manassas61

newmug wrote: »

You would be surprised how many people care Soulandform! I care, my whole circle of friends, family and acquaintances care, we see the North as ours, as being temporarily cut off from the "real" Ireland, and we want it back. But its not worth a single human life, nay, a single drop of blood, so we want it back, with all you inhabitants alive and well! We pray for the North regularly, for all its people, for its future, for its past, for peace, for re-unification, for its welfare, and for its faith. We pray for you fellow human beings, fellow Christians, stuck up there due to political bull****. I wish Gods will would prevail.

Do you think God listens to Rome?

It isn't yours and never will be.

goose2005

Carlos Roca wrote: »

And whose fault is that?

themmuns', obviously. They took are fleg.

I am pie

Funny how the dissidents think there are being picked on and victimised and the loyalists think they are being bullied and victimised.

It's almost like the rest of us couldn't give a sh1te about their feelings and continue to believe in the rule of law and the agreement made between the overwhelming majority of people who live on this island.

Both sides are currently engaged in an escalation of shootings, the victims are teenagers who have gone off track, involved in drugs and car theft. According to the morality of the UVF, DAAD (aka the Real New IRA) and co...the solution is to shoot them back into line. Brrrilliant.

God save us from these savages. I'd round up everyone involved in both sides, no trial, and send them out to live on rockall....or Leitrim. Either way.

.jacksparrow.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It's all about the branding.

If those in the UVF who wanted to carry out criminal activities had rebranded themselves the CUVF or RUVF it wouldn't be a problem.

Oh, they would have to do their racketeering in Dublin or Limerick as well.

So you're telling me the garda and psni are letting the dissidents run wild but are coming down hard on the uvf all because they didn't change their name?

Have you ever heard such waffle...

The Diabolical Monocle

What does it really matter - GB taxpayers are building the place up and unionists are slowly losing control.

Let them wave their flag for the time being.

grainnewhale

Manassas61 wrote: »

Do you think God listens to Rome?

It isn't yours and never will be.

Billy wrights been reincarnated.

grainnewhale

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It's all about the branding.

If those in the UVF who wanted to carry out criminal activities had rebranded themselves the CUVF or RUVF it wouldn't be a problem.

Oh, they would have to do their racketeering in Dublin or Limerick as well.

The psni and gardai have infiltrated the dissidents. considering most of the psni would be in the same lodges as the uvf it should be fairly easy to infiltrate them, if the will was there.

grainnewhale

EireGun wrote: »

No, it's not 'on our occupied territory' because - may I remind you - in the Republic of Ireland, 94.4% of people voted in favour of the Northern Ireland Good Friday Agreement in 1998, and the subsequent amendment to the Irish Constitution to recognise Northern Ireland was part of the United Kingdom, and relent our claim to it.

Keep up.

The people did not vote to retain the british presence in Ireland, rather for a peaceful unification of Ireland.

grainnewhale

newmug wrote: »

You would be surprised how many people care Soulandform! I care, my whole circle of friends, family and acquaintances care, we see the North as ours, as being temporarily cut off from the "real" Ireland, and we want it back. But its not worth a single human life, nay, a single drop of blood, so we want it back, with all you inhabitants alive and well! We pray for the North regularly, for all its people, for its future, for its past, for peace, for re-unification, for its welfare, and for its faith. We pray for you fellow human beings, fellow Christians, stuck up there due to political bull****. I wish Gods will would prevail.

While you are praying to God, hopefully somebody that actually exists is doing something to bring this about. You are aware that the loyalist who enjoy killing catholics so much, believe God is on their side.

TOMASJ

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It's all about the branding.

If those in the UVF who wanted to carry out criminal activities had rebranded themselves the CUVF or RUVF it wouldn't be a problem.

Oh, they would have to do their racketeering in Dublin or Limerick as well.

Wouldn't be surprised if the UVF were at their racketeering business in Dublin and Limerick, without bothering to rebrand,
Their extistance is solely about drugs and protection money
Just ask protestant in the areas where they operate free from any interference from the cops

junder

TOMASJ wrote: »

Wouldn't be surprised if the UVF were at their racketeering business in Dublin and Limerick, without bothering to rebrand,
Their extistance is solely about drugs and protection money
Just ask protestant in the areas where they operate free from any interference from the cops

Yes go ahead, ask me

junder

grainnewhale wrote: »

The psni and gardai have infiltrated the dissidents. considering most of the psni would be in the same lodges as the uvf it should be fairly easy to infiltrate them, if the will was there.

You got any proof of (most) psni officer being in any loyal order?

TOMASJ

junder wrote: »

Yes go ahead, ask me

Do you live in one of these UVF controlled areas,

junder

TOMASJ wrote: »

Do you live in one of these UVF controlled areas,

According to the Sunday world I do.

grainnewhale

I am pie wrote: »

Funny how the dissidents think there are being picked on and victimised and the loyalists think they are being bullied and victimised.

It's almost like the rest of us couldn't give a sh1te about their feelings and continue to believe in the rule of law and the agreement made between the overwhelming majority of people who live on this island.

Both sides are currently engaged in an escalation of shootings, the victims are teenagers who have gone off track, involved in drugs and car theft. According to the morality of the UVF, DAAD (aka the Real New IRA) and co...the solution is to shoot them back into line. Brrrilliant.

God save us from these savages. I'd round up everyone involved in both sides, no trial, and send them out to live on rockall....or Leitrim. Either way.

You call them savages. Yet you seem to think teenagers terrorising old people to pay for their drug habits. stealing cars and endangering peoples lives is o.k with you, as is internment without trial. Whats your problem with Leitrim.

grainnewhale

junder wrote: »

According to the Sunday world I do.

Well the sunday world never lie.

Fratton Fred

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

So you're telling me the garda and psni are letting the dissidents run wild but are coming down hard on the uvf all because they didn't change their name?

Have you ever heard such waffle...

Did you miss Alan Ryan's funeral?

Busted Flat.

:cool:

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Did you miss Alan Ryan's funeral?

TOMASJ

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Did you miss Alan Ryan's funeral?

The Boston Massacre at its best there.

EireGun

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Did you miss Alan Ryan's funeral?

Over 100 people were arrested in the aftermath of Alan Ryan's funeral under Operation Ambience, investigating the Republican displays (balaclavas, paramilitary marching, military-style drilling - all illegal under Offences against the State Act) and firearms discharges. Armed Gardai raided over 50 premises in the months afterwards, and dozens of people have been charged, with firearms and explosives being found in the searches. Any repeat of what we saw at Alan Ryan's funeral has not been repeated, despite 4 Republican funerals since.