Bus Eireann #405 route: changes needed?

Iwannahurl

Bus Eireann's 405 service runs from Ballybane to Rahoon via Eyre Square and University Road.

It's terminus in Rahoon (actually Gort na Bró on the timetable) is inside the 'Gateway Retail Park' where Dunnes, Next, B&Q etc are located.

Dunnes usually closes at 22:00, as do the other shops I presume. However, the 405 continues until 23:30 or so. This means that at certain times passengers are waiting or disembarking in a quiet, poorly lit area.

It is not overstretching the imagination to suggest that this could a bit of a deterrent for some people, women especially.

Are users of the 405 happy with its route around Rahoon? Is the current terminus in the retail park suitable and convenient, and does it feel safe? Could the route be adjusted?

Storm 10

What about where it stops and starts in Ballybane in the middle of nowhere , no houses or shops anywhere its an accident waiting to happen, why does it not terminate /start at the Clybaun Hotel and finish at Ballybane near houses etc is beyond me.

fergiesfolly

Does it not start on the Ballybane Rd?
My biggest gripe is that it no longer travels via the Dublin Rd

Iwannahurl

Storm 10 wrote: »

What about where it stops and starts in Ballybane in the middle of nowhere , no houses or shops anywhere its an accident waiting to happen, why does it not terminate /start at the Clybaun Hotel and finish at Ballybane near houses etc is beyond me.

I haven't travelled on the 405 to Ballybane, so I don't know what conditions are like at that end.

The Clybaun Hotel might make sense as a location for a terminus. However, City Direct dominates that end of the Western Distributor Road. Additionally, there are no bus lanes on the WDR, which would mean that the 405 would get stuck in even more traffic at peak times.

I suspect that bus routes are designed by people who do not use buses regularly themselves and have no awareness of passengers' experiences, perceptions and needs in real life. That said, the buses do seem to function in an A to B sort of way.

Storm 10

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Does it not start on the Ballybane Rd?
My biggest gripe is that it no longer travels via the Dublin Rd

It starts and finishes on the left side of the small road that goes up to Boston Scientific just up from the new traffic lights at Ballybrit, its in the middle of nowhere

Iwannahurl

To facilitate bus drivers rather than bus passengers perhaps?

Mrs OBumble

Storm 10 wrote: »

What about where it stops and starts in Ballybane in the middle of nowhere , no houses or shops anywhere its an accident waiting to happen, why does it not terminate /start at the Clybaun Hotel and finish at Ballybane near houses etc is beyond me.

Duh!

Because 3000-4000 people work in that industrial estate, some of them on shifts that operate at all sorts of hours. The only improvement to the route that I'd suggest it to have the bus go all the way into HP (reception staffed 24 hours) to turn around. Far safer than ending near the houses/shops in the area.

I regularly leave about 6pm on Friday evenings - used to think it would be quiet / desolate by then, but nothing is further from the truth. Lots of Boston workers coming and going.

There are also various people from houses around the place who catch the bus at the terminus in the estate in preference to beside the shops.

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Duh!

Because 3000-4000 people work in that industrial estate, some of them on shifts that operate at all sorts of hours. The only improvement to the route that I'd suggest it to have the bus go all the way into HP (reception staffed 24 hours) to turn around. Far safer than ending near the houses/shops in the area.

I regularly leave about 6pm on Friday evenings - used to think it would be quiet / desolate by then, but nothing is further from the truth. Lots of Boston workers coming and going.

There are also various people from houses around the place who catch the bus at the terminus in the estate in preference to beside the shops.

Strongly agree. Same applies to the 403 and 409 in Parkmore; they should go into the IDA parks

what_traffic

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Are users of the 405 happy with its route around Rahoon? Is the current terminus in the retail park suitable and convenient, and does it feel safe? Could the route be adjusted?

What would be an alternative terminus on WDR?

zarquon

what_traffic wrote: »

What would be an alternative terminus on WDR?

Somewhere near the clybaun cross road would be more suitable although there is no place really on the WDR for a bus to pull in.

Storm 10

Another gripe at that stupid stop at Ballybane is there is no shelter, you get the bus to work then get drenched running up to work, same thing happens going home, run down to the stop get wet and no shelter, I rest my case

what_traffic

Storm 10 wrote: »

Another gripe at that stupid stop at Ballybane is there is no shelter, you get the bus to work then get drenched running up to work, same thing happens going home, run down to the stop get wet and no shelter, I rest my case

It a very valid observation. It's not a gripe. Was this vechicle hook turn not built for the buses when the Ballybane junction was converted? Why no shelter was built at the time is beyond any rational thought.

GekkePrutser

The 405 would be perfect for me to get to work if it didn't take such a roundabout way of getting there, through Eyre square and all.. It takes me 12 minutes in the car in the morning (traffic on the SQR seems to be consistently fine in the mornings, strange enough because the evenings are so bad), would take 40 minutes on the bus (and that's if it actually makes its timetable during rush hour traffic, which I doubt). Add to that a 5-10 minute walk on both ends and you're looking at a whole hour, two for the return trip.

I'd say there would be enough custom for a bus at morning/evening times, enough people live in the west of the city and work in the east in the estates. It could start up in Knocknacarra, go over to Rahoon, Westside, QC Bridge, Bothar na Dtreabh, go through the Ballybrit estate and then take the slip road out the back there and go on to Parkmore.

I know I'm just suiting my needs when I say this but this is really something that would make the bus a viable option for me. And I don't think I'm the only one.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Because 3000-4000 people work in that industrial estate, some of them on shifts that operate at all sorts of hours. The only improvement to the route that I'd suggest it to have the bus go all the way into HP (reception staffed 24 hours) to turn around.

Maybe HP have a problem with a public bus service operating on their site? It could be a liability/insurance issue. I don't know, just thinking out loud

I know they had (have?) a bus in the morning/evening to eyre square/salthill but as far as I know it was organised specifically for them so maybe that's a different issue.

Iwannahurl

what_traffic wrote: »

What would be an alternative terminus on WDR?

I'm not sure. The two main obstacles to a 405 terminus on the WDR itself (the obvious choice otherwise?) are the presence of City Direct and the lack of bus lanes.

Maybe the answer is better street lighting and/or CCTV within the retail park?

irisheddie85

As it happens I was driving across the city the other day and was thinking most of my journeys seem to be from one side to the other trying to avoid the city centre. Surely there are a lot of people in the same situation and a bus route that didn't go through eyre square but performed a loop of the city stopping at what would be the terminus of the other routes going in to eyre square would be useful.
Whenever I have been in other cities with well used public transport there always seems to be a radial bus service around the city as well as a linear one going to/from the city centre.
Maybe Galway isn't big enough to support this system I dont know

zarquon

GekkePrutser wrote: »

Maybe HP have a problem with a public bus service operating on their site? It could be a liability/insurance issue. I don't know, just thinking out loud

I'd be fairly sure it is an insurance issue with a public stop on private property. Also consider that the HP site is now a building site also due to the construction of their new premises which supposedly will take another 2 years to complete and you can see why it would not be advisable for them to allow a public stop on their property

what_traffic

Why the focus on HP? There are other employers up here. Is it really an "Insurance" issue? Whats the difference between private motorists and public transport providers using these private roads?

Agree re sentiments about a radial bus route. Should at least be provided at rush hour times.

zarquon

what_traffic wrote: »

Why the focus on HP? There are other employers up here. Is it really an "Insurance" issue? Whats the difference between private motorists and public transport providers using these private roads?

Agree re sentiments about a radial bus route. Should at least be provided at rush hour times.

I think it was mentioned earlier as HP already has a dedicated bus route for it's employees.

I don't get your argument at all about private roads. The internal roads of the business site are for it's own employees. Anyone outside of that would need some form of public liability insurance. It is ridiculous to suggest that public transport could use any private road.

Iwannahurl

zarquon wrote: »

The internal roads of the business site are for it's own employees. Anyone outside of that would need some form of public liability insurance. It is ridiculous to suggest that public transport could use any private road.

Is this a public road? TTBOMK it has not been taken in charge by Galway City Council, though I'm open to correction.

It's called Gort na Bro on the 405 timetable, but in fact the terminus is inside the "Gateway Retail Park".

what_traffic

zarquon wrote: »

I think it was mentioned earlier as HP already has a dedicated bus route for it's employees.

I don't get your argument at all about private roads. The internal roads of the business site are for it's own employees. Anyone outside of that would need some form of public liability insurance. It is ridiculous to suggest that public transport could use any private road

Where is this being suggested? Would obviously have to have permission / co-operation with landowners. Maybe in their interests to have this facility/services.
Is this road here a private road for example: https://maps.google.ie/maps?q=western+distributor+road+galway&hl=en&ll=53.290655,-9.008038&spn=0.004297,0.024784&sll=53.201733,-9.170862&sspn=1.640302,3.240967&t=h&hnear=Western+Distributor+Rd,+Galway,+County+Galway&layer=c&cbll=53.290649,-9.008034&panoid=N-jcIqFS4unK8fZZvgymCA&cbp=11,77.43,,0,0&z=16

zarquon

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Is this a public road? TTBOMK it has not been taken in charge by Galway City Council, though I'm open to correction.

It's called Gort na Bro on the 405 timetable, but in fact the terminus is inside the "Gateway Retail Park".

Interesting question, although the retail park would have public liability insurance which would cover those frequenting public transport. A private business, closed to the public is a different matter as they would only have employee liability insurance

Storm 10

As far as I am aware that area is owned by the IDA, the factories own the property they are on but the road is public, who would object to a proper bus service in their area for their employees anyway would it not be a great help to them, we should all call Bus Eireann in Galway and tell them what we think of that stupid stop.

Cleahaigh

If people don't like the terminus they could just go to the next stop on the WDR near the entrance to Browne's Garden, it's not all that far. Or wait at the roundabout until you see the bus approaching, then wander over.

zarquon

Cleahaigh wrote: »

If people don't like the terminus they could just go to the next stop on the WDR near the entrance to Browne's Garden, it's not all that far. Or wait at the roundabout until you see the bus approaching, then wander over.

The main issue would be a lack a bus shelter which is required during the rain that is denied on the other commuting thread

Mrs OBumble

zarquon wrote: »

I'd be fairly sure it is an insurance issue with a public stop on private property. Also consider that the HP site is now a building site also due to the construction of their new premises which supposedly will take another 2 years to complete and you can see why it would not be advisable for them to allow a public stop on their property

Nonsense.

There is already a bus stop on their property, which is used by the public "factory run" bus that runs to/from Salthill each morning and evening. And the plannig app for their new building says that the site includes pedestrian access and bus-drop off facilities.

The seervice may have been exclusive to HP staff back in the day when the place was just a factory surrounded by fields and Wilson Sports, but today is it used by staff from Boston, APC, Supermacs and the various other businesses in the estates. It's operated by BÉ's regional (or whatever they're called) buses, but it charges the same fare as any bus and takes the regular city bus daily / weekly / monthly fickets.



Re the bus-shelter: I totally agree that it's ridiculous. But it's Galway City Council we should be lobbying. BÉ run buses, the council is responsible for the "street furniture".

zarquon

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Nonsense.

There is already a bus stop on their property, which is used by the public "factory run" bus that runs to/from Salthill each morning and evening. And the plannig app for their new building says that the site includes pedestrian access and bus-drop off facilities.

The seervice may have been exclusive to HP staff back in the day when the place was just a factory surrounded by fields and Wilson Sports, but today is it used by staff from Boston, APC, Supermacs and the various other businesses in the estates. It's operated by BÉ's regional (or whatever they're called) buses, but it charges the same fare as any bus and takes the regular city bus daily / weekly / monthly fickets.

.

It might be informally used by the public but it's primary designation is for HP employees otherwise it would stop on the road and not past the entrance. I highly doubt that HP have bought public liability insurance to support the trafficking of employees from neighbouring businesses.

Mrs OBumble

zarquon wrote: »

It might be informally used by the public but it's primary designation is for HP employees otherwise it would stop on the road and not past the entrance. I highly doubt that HP have bought public liability insurance to support the trafficking of employees from neighbouring businesses.

HP don't run the bus, so they couldn't possibly be responsible for providing insurance cover for it.

And of course they have public liability insurance that covers visitors to their site, including those walking to and from a bus stop that is located there.

Even BÉ know that's it's not only for HP workers - sometimes the sign on the bus says "APC".


:rolleyes:

GekkePrutser

zarquon wrote: »

I think it was mentioned earlier as HP already has a dedicated bus route for it's employees.

There is but only from Salthill, not from e.g. Knocknacarra (which is the route of the 405 this post is about).

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Re the bus-shelter: I totally agree that it's ridiculous. But it's Galway City Council we should be lobbying. BÉ run buses, the council is responsible for the "street furniture".

So this is Galway City East
http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/YourCouncil/CouncilMembers/TheFile,1910,en.pdf
Cllr's for this ward are:
http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/YourCouncil/CouncilMembers/GalwayCityEast/

jkforde

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Re the bus-shelter: .....BÉ run buses, the council is responsible for the "street furniture".

are you sure about this? I reported some vandalism to a shelter to the Council and I was told that the shelters were the sole responsibility of BÉ.

We use the 405 occasionally and the only comment I'd have is the lack of proper terminus facilities at Gort na Bró, esp. lighting, shelter, proper route info display etc.

what_traffic

jkforde wrote: »

are you sure about this? I reported some vandalism to a shelter to the Council and I was told that the shelters were the sole responsibility of BÉ.

We use the 405 occasionally and the only comment I'd have is the lack of proper terminus facilities at Gort na Bró, esp. lighting, sheltery, proper route info display etc.

Council were fobbing you off! Am not surprised. As far as I am aware these shelters cost the Council nothing. The advertisers pay for the shelter and installation in lieu for the Ad revenues from the posters.

biko

Galway -> Commuting
Let's keep Galway forums for actual changes and use specialty forums for planning/open discussion.

Mrs OBumble

Digging up an old thread - but it is directly relevant to comments made back then.

Spotted the following in today's Galway Indo, and BE's website confirms that it starts happening from Monday 15 May, ie next week.

(Yellow highlighting added by me)





Delighted to hear it.

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Digging up an old thread - but it is directly relevant to comments made back then.

Spotted the following in today's Galway Indo, and BE's website confirms that it starts happening from Monday 15 May, ie next week.

(Yellow highlighting added by me)





Delighted to hear it.

Well spotted. Good news alright.
It kind of confirms that the intention of the hook turn junction that was created during the roundabout to traffic light conversion at Ballybane was NOT for buses even though this was stated in the plans for it. They never even installed a bus shelter there for that terminus stop for the 405.

Does the 404 /410 amalgamation mean there is another cross city bus service in addition to the #405. The 404/410 will be from Westside/Newcastle to Oranmore now?

monument

By user request, I'm kicking this back to the Galway City forum. Galway City mods please feel free to send it back at any time if needed.

Laviski

will it still be every 20 minutes?
not sure how punctual it will be during off peak times. (during peak times it runs late as it is)

ben.schlomo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Digging up an old thread - but it is directly relevant to comments made back then.

Spotted the following in today's Galway Indo, and BE's website confirms that it starts happening from Monday 15 May, ie next week.

(Yellow highlighting added by me)





Delighted to hear it.

Does that mean it goes all the way down into the industrial estate? Surely that will lengthen journey times? As said already the peak time waits are already long with traffic.

Storm 10

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Does that mean it goes all the way down into the industrial estate? Surely that will lengthen journey times? As said already the peak time waits are already long with traffic.

It goes up a short distance to Hewlett Packard, no more getting wet and quicker from there than waiting for someone to let the bus out at other place

Mrs OBumble

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Does that mean it goes all the way down into the industrial estate? Surely that will lengthen journey times? As said already the peak time waits are already long with traffic.

Yes, it does. I don't think that the journey time with be lengthened by a lot - it only takes me 8 minutes to talk pretty much the same distance it will be covering, and I'm pretty slow. Bus should do it in one or two mins - granted more at peak time when there's a queue out of the estate. What it does do though, is put a bus-shelter at the end-point, which is a big improvement. (Though I've heard some HP people muttering that the design of the shelter looks good, but doesn't actually keep the rain out. We'll see.)

Service is still every 20 minutes. But they have messed a bit with the peak time departure times, to try to allow for traffic So it's less clock-face convenient now, I will have to print out the timetable to remember it.

I hope they keep the bus stop at the hook turn or close to it (eg at the power station back gateway). There are a number of locals who use that stop in preference to the one down by SuperValu.




Re the 404/410 - yes, it's another east-west cross town route, from Newcastle to Oranmore (via the Galway Clinic) seven days a week with evening services. This is a big improvement for both areas. And the first bus from Eyre Square to the clinic in the morning now arrives there at 6:35 - making it suitable for the staff who need to be at work for 7am, another feature requested by quite a few people.

That's from a quick glance at the announcement and timetables - I'll be casting beady eye over the detail in the next day or two and writing up a non-marketing-speak summary.

LXFlyer

One big improvement is that the timetables are much easier to understand.

The old timetables had ludicrous presentation, with "buses every 40 minutes" and "buses every 45 minutes" which required people to do lengthy maths calculations to work out.

These timetables revert to showing all departures.

what_traffic

http://www.buseireann.ie/news_timetable.php?id=2018&month=May

Route 404: Newcastle – Eyre Square – Oranmore
From the 15th May 2016, the current routes 404 & 410 will now be merged to provide a service linking the west and the east of the city. It will provide the following service enhancements:

• Direct services from Oranmore to NUIG and UCHG
• Direct service from the Newcastle area to GMIT, Bon Secours Hospital, Merlin Park Hospital and Galway Clinic
• Additional services after 7pm
• A new Sunday service

Route 405: Ballybane - Eyre Square to Rahoon
The following service improvements will be introduced from 15th May 2016:

• The route will now terminate outside the HP Building in Ballybrit Business Park providing more transport options to this growing employment zone.
• Morning and evening trip times have been revised to reflect current traffic conditions and to improve service punctuality.
• This route will no longer serve the Newcastle area on Sundays. This area will now be served by Route 404: Newcastle – Eyre Square - Oranmore

#404 timetable

http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1462869641-Route-404_V1.pdf

#405 timetable

http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1462869492-Route-405_V1.pdf

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Re the 404/410 - yes, it's another east-west cross town route, from Newcastle to Oranmore (via the Galway Clinic) seven days a week with evening services. This is a big improvement for both areas. And the first bus from Eyre Square to the clinic in the morning now arrives there at 6:35 - making it suitable for the staff who need to be at work for 7am, another feature requested by quite a few people.

Very true.
Will also be great for students in Oranmore going to and from NUIG and for staff of both NUIG and UCHG who live in the East Galway area.

Wonder will it be stopping at the Oranmore Railway Station? Might be useful as a Park & Ride?

Fitz*

Delighted to hear this.

At least now we have a shelter! The shelter here in HPE is ok, not the best but it is good and hey a shelter is still a shelter! This will also stop me having to try guess if the bus is on time or not, and leave work at a time hoping the bus shows up, and that it is not raining too so that I won't be waiting in the rain hoping the bus is on time!

Maybe all my mails to Bus Eireann worked! :P

what_traffic

FitzShane wrote: »

Delighted to hear this.

At least now we have a shelter! The shelter here in HPE is ok, not the best but it is good and hey a shelter is still a shelter! This will also stop me having to try guess if the bus is on time or not, and leave work at a time hoping the bus shows up, and that it is not raining too so that I won't be waiting in the rain hoping the bus is on time!

Maybe all my mails to Bus Eireann worked! :P

Every bit helps I guess! Did HP (or other employers here) make any representations at all I wonder?

Fitz*

what_traffic wrote: »

Every bit helps I guess! Did HP (or other employers here) make any representations at all I wonder?

I'm not sure tbh. We received a mail about it today, outlining the new plans & timetable. No mention was made of the direct bus to HPE that currently runs twice a day.

Mrs OBumble

what_traffic wrote: »

Every bit helps I guess! Did HP (or other employers here) make any representations at all I wonder?

I'm told that they asked for as part of the traffic planning stage of getting their new building approved.

And they have a big incentive to get it: once the old building starts being used for something else, then the old building's carparks will be allocated to that "something else" and HP won't have enough based on current levels of car use.

Don't know if any other companies were involved, I've been told that Boston are a bit hostile to public transport promotion.

FitzShane wrote: »

I'm not sure tbh. We received a mail about it today, outlining the new plans & timetable. No mention was made of the direct bus to HPE that currently runs twice a day.

Good.

CPL agency staff were getting a reminder about the direct bus every month with the "do you want to order a TaxSaver" message.

Mr_A

Yeah HPE have certainly been involved in getting this route extended. It's great news and long overdue. I didn't have to use the service much but it can be a long enough trudge when the weather isn't good. Will hopefully encourage more people to use the service as well.

what_traffic

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Don't know if any other companies were involved, I've been told that Boston are a bit hostile to public transport promotion.

That is strange if it is true. Do you know if they offer the TaxSaver tickets as a "Benefit" to employees? (also the "Bike to Work" tax saver? )

Slow Show

Any idea what the story is with prices for the Newcastle - Oranmore route, I know on the 410 the general 2.10 didn't apply for Oranmore and it was a good bit more expensive, presume it's probably the same situation here?

bobbyss

I don't know much about that service going in that direction I'm afraid but was wondering does BE have stats on all of their services in the city because they must base some services on statistics. Are they available to the public?

pure.conya

405 bus route has been a disaster for months now! I am sick and tired of buses not showing up on time although I'm early, second bus comes 5 or 6 minutes late and then decides to become the third bus so countless times I've been left standing at a stop going into or coming from work for over an hour, so much for a service every 20 mins!