Catholic Church all over the Phillippines disaster like a rash

vicwatson

Or is it my imagination??

The tragedy aside (and it's really rough for those poor unfortunates)

The Republic of the Phillippines is an 80% Catholic Country according to Wiki -

"more than 90% of the population are Christians: about 80% belong to the Roman Catholic Church while 10% belong to other Christian Denominations"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillippines

80% of 98,000,000.00 is 78,400,000.00 Catholics. you can see why they'd have a vested interest, why Dermot Martin is on the national news asking his flock to take non perishable items to mass this weekend....why my children are being asked to have a cake sale in school for charity (and the charity name hasn't been given)

Didn't hear him on the national news looking for aid for Syria and the likes :rolleyes:

At least it's a secular country, we are a republic also and................

Kidchameleon

What are you doing to help them?

magicbastarder

syria is a different matter - access, etc. is much more controlled. it's a different matter getting tins of batchelors beans to syria.

vicwatson

Kidchameleon wrote: »

What are you doing to help them?

Irrelevant, what I donate is my business

Sarky

vicwatson wrote: »

Irrelevant, what I donate is my business

No, no, you're supposed to say "nothing because I'm an atheist", whereupon KidChameleon can feel all smug and self righteous by pointing out that there's some charity mixed in with the Church's drive to reinforce dependancy on it and convert any vulnerable survivors it finds.

TwoShedsJackson

Sarky wrote: »

No, no, you're supposed to say "nothing because I'm an atheist", whereupon KidChameleon can feel all smug and self righteous by pointing out that there's some charity mixed in with the Church's drive to reinforce dependancy on it and convert any vulnerable survivors it finds.

Didn't you remember KidChameleon is supposedly an atheist as well?

ballsymchugh

there was a collection in the dublin archdiocese for syria 2 weeks ago.

Benny_Cake

Trocaire and some of the Irish orders have a long history in the Philippines, and the local Caritas affiliates have a big local presence which are probably very well placed to get the aid where it needs to go.

Of course, you could also donate to a charity such as MSF which are also active in disaster relief there. I'd doubt that the victims care too much where the aid comes from.

wretcheddomain

There's something disingenuous about assisting people based on their faith, implying that the faith is almost more important than the person itself. In addition, this means the religious are not assisting these folks for its own sake rather that of the sake of the faith. I find that mentality borders on the point of disturbing. Even if it happened to be true that atheists provided less in times of disaster, well, at least it is given genuinely and for the sake of the cause rather than the sake of a faith.

magicbastarder

it's a lot to do with the type of disaster too. a massive typhoon, in an area not known for unrest, will get people's sympathy more than civil unrest in an area with a history of it.

Kidchameleon

vicwatson wrote: »

Irrelevant, what I donate is my business

By that logic its none of your business what the Catholic church does...

Cabaal

Kidchameleon wrote: »

By that logic its none of your business what the Catholic church does...

The Church announced what they are doing to the media, that makes it everyone's business.

I didn't see any news story about what vicwatson may or may not have done, so looking for details of their financial transactions is very much not your business.

TheIrishGrover

Y'know what, I'm an atheist and I'd rather see these people helped no matter where the help comes from. Who gives a f*ck if it's christians, atheists, jews, muslims, martians or flying spagetti monsters helping them. What do you suggest? "Sorry, christian? No thanks, I'd rather starve"

There's a point where militant atheism becomes disgusting.

gaynorvader

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Y'know what, I'm an atheist and I'd rather see these people helped no matter where the help comes from. Who gives a f*ck if it's christians, atheists, jews, muslims, martians or flying spagetti monsters helping them. What do you suggest? "Sorry, christian? No thanks, I'd rather starve"

There's a point where militant atheism becomes disgusting.

I agree, though I think the point by the OP is that the RCC is more charitable towards its flock than those not of its flock. Which is perfectly acceptable in my view.

Cabaal

gaynorvader wrote: »

I agree, though I think the point by the OP is that the RCC is more charitable towards its flock than those not of its flock. Which is perfectly acceptable in my view.

How is it though?, they are supposed to care about people.
We as a race should just care about people regardless of their faith in times of need

gaynorvader

Cabaal wrote: »

How is it though?, they are supposed to care about people.
We as a race should just care about people regardless of their faith in times of need

We should, but don't. We all have our prejudices. Some can overcome them, most can't or won't.

Turtwig

magicbastarder wrote: »

syria is a different matter - access, etc. is much more controlled. it's a different matter getting tins of batchelors beans to syria.

Syria currently seems to be at a high risk of facing a polio epidemic. Hate to say it but considering how under vaccinated Europe is I would be very wary of sending aid resources there.

vicwatson

Sarky wrote: »

No, no, you're supposed to say "nothing because I'm an atheist", whereupon KidChameleon can feel all smug and self righteous by pointing out that there's some charity mixed in with the Church's drive to reinforce dependancy on it and convert any vulnerable survivors it finds.

To clarify - I didn't donate to any charity that was affiliated to any church or religious organisation.

ballsymchugh wrote: »

there was a collection in the dublin archdiocese for syria 2 weeks ago.

So what?

Read my op...particularly this part

"why Dermot Martin is on the national news asking his flock to take non perishable items to mass this weekend"

wretcheddomain wrote: »

There's something disingenuous about assisting people based on their faith, implying that the faith is almost more important than the person itself. In addition, this means the religious are not assisting these folks for its own sake rather that of the sake of the faith. I find that mentality borders on the point of disturbing. Even if it happened to be true that atheists provided less in times of disaster, well, at least it is given genuinely and for the sake of the cause rather than the sake of a faith.

Samaritans Purse and their Christmas Hope Shoebox Appeal is another thing springs to mind - Tied aid really - read the pamphlet and we'll give you a shoebox with some second hand toys in it

vicwatson

Kidchameleon wrote: »

By that logic its none of your business what the Catholic church does...

Well stop taking up so much of my tax funded radio and TV station to "rally the flock" so

Kidchameleon

vicwatson wrote: »

Well stop taking up so much of my tax funded radio and TV station to "rally the flock" so

Im not rte

Kidchameleon

Cabaal wrote: »

so looking for details of their financial transactions is very much not your business.

Could you point to the post where i looked for details of the op's financial transactions.

robindch

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Could you point to the post where i looked for details of the op's financial transactions.

It was in the second post in this thread, your one from 12:22:

Kidchameleon wrote: »

What are you doing to help them?

pa4

It's funny how far some people will go to bash the Catholic church, would you prefer if they didn't help out at all?

Sarky

It's funny how far some people let the point fly over their heads. Like a ballon caught in a hurric- ahem.

J C

Cabaal wrote: »

We as a race should just care about people regardless of their faith in times of need

... and that is what is being done ... and should be done by all of the relief agencies.
This is a terrible disaster ... with many family members of victims living and working here in Ireland - which brings the sad reality of it home to all of us.

The people of the Phillipines need our love, our prayers and our money now.

vicwatson

The people of the Phillipines need our love, our prayers and our money now.

Prayers ain't gonna do nuttin' for them, fact

J C

vicwatson wrote: »

Prayers ain't gonna do nuttin' for them, fact

... love, prayers and money will all help.
... as well as the dedicated professional work of the various agencies ... many with great Irish people in their teams.

IT-Guy

vicwatson wrote: »

Prayers ain't gonna do nuttin' for them, fact

And neither did the inevitable plethora of prayers beforehand too! I'm glad those in need are getting some bit of help but I find the suggestions to say prayers distasteful, as if they weren't being said in effing earnest by those affected in the days preceding the typhoon. Tragically ironic

IT-Guy

J C wrote: »

... love, prayers and money will all help.
... as well as the dedicated professional work of the various agencies ... many with great Irish people in their teams.

As a saying it's rather apt here - 2 hands working get a hell of a lot more accomplished than 2 hands clasped in prayer. I know which I'd be doing

Busted Flat.

vicwatson wrote: »

Or is it my imagination??

The tragedy aside (and it's really rough for those poor unfortunates)

The Republic of the Phillippines is an 80% Catholic Country according to Wiki -

"more than 90% of the population are Christians: about 80% belong to the Roman Catholic Church while 10% belong to other Christian Denominations"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillippines

80% of 98,000,000.00 is 78,400,000.00 Catholics. you can see why they'd have a vested interest, why Dermot Martin is on the national news asking his flock to take non perishable items to mass this weekend....why my children are being asked to have a cake sale in school for charity (and the charity name hasn't been given)

Didn't hear him on the national news looking for aid for Syria and the likes :rolleyes:

At least it's a secular country, we are a republic also and................

They have lost it in Ireland, there is easier prey in the Philippines, they are on to a good thing there.

Busted Flat.

What we are missing is Father D O'Brien with Charile Bird escorting him.

gaynorvader

J C wrote: »

... love, prayers and money will all help.
... as well as the dedicated professional work of the various agencies ... many with great Irish people in their teams.

Love and prayers alone do nothing, you need actions. Both might motivate people to action, but if prayer becomes a substitute for the action, nothing is done. I think even the Bible acknowledges this, "The Lord helps him who helps himself" or some such (my scripture quoting may be suffering due to tiredness! )

Stinicker

I consider myself a lapsed Catholic but this year I visited the Philippines before any of these disasters struck and I can say that when I returned I found my faith reinvigorated and restored. The church is doing many great things in this country and is genuinely helping people.

gaynorvader

Stinicker wrote: »

I consider myself a lapsed Catholic but this year I visited the Philippines before any of these disasters struck and I can say that when I returned I found my faith reinvigorated and restored. The church is doing many great things in this country and is genuinely helping people.

Name a few there sure.

_Whimsical_

vicwatson wrote: »

Didn't hear him on the national news looking for aid for Syria and the likes :rolleyes:

At least it's a secular country, we are a republic also and................

Actually this weeks church collection is for Syria and victims of the typhoon. It was earmarked as a day for Syria alone as far back as October but in the light of whats happened with the typhoon they're making it a day for both countries.Had to look for a link on this :
http://www.irishcatholic.ie/article/tr%C3%B3caire-church-collection-syria

The appeal for food was made because the church has established channels in the country that can distribute food parcels. Today over 100 people came to the food bank they distribute through but there was only enough food for 40 people. The church, unsurprisingly does not have the same channels in a muslim country and even if it did it is a war zone, not a disaster zone. Access and transport of good would be a very different story in Syria.

Also in Sept the pope held a multidenominational day of prayer for peace in Syria and prayer service in st Peters Square for peace for Syrians. During that they appealed for aid donations for the country and underlined the very desperate need of the people.
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/world/2013/09/07/Pope-Francis-leads-global-fasting-prayer-day-for-Syria-peace.html

I think your conspiracy theory really doesn't hold water on this one.

_Whimsical_

gaynorvader wrote: »

Love and prayers alone do nothing, you need actions. Both might motivate people to action, but if prayer becomes a substitute for the action, nothing is done.

And when something IS done it's presumed to be a callous act to manipulate or take care of only "the flock", not humankind as a whole.
How exactly do you win on this one ?

Sulla Felix

J C wrote: »

... love, prayers and money will all help.
... as well as the dedicated professional work of the various agencies ... many with great Irish people in their teams.

Idle curiosity jc, if you could choose only one of the three to send, which do you think would be most effective?

Galwayguy35

vicwatson wrote: »

To clarify - I didn't donate to any charity that was affiliated to any church or religious organisation.



So what?

Read my op...particularly this part

"why Dermot Martin is on the national news asking his flock to take non perishable items to mass this weekend"

Actually as far as I know he was asking people to bring food to help a centre in Dublin that gives it out to the people of the city that need it because there is such a demand for it due to the harsh economic times we all live in.

Kidchameleon

robindch wrote: »

It was in the second post in this thread, your one from 12:22:

You know there's more you can do to help a cause than give money, don't you? Again, please point to where I asked for financial details of the OP.

Hotblack Desiato

You have to wonder how much money over the decades has been sucked out of pockets of the poorest in that poor country and into gilding the Vatican.

SpaceTime

My donations are going to MSF and the Red Cross.

However, if catholic organisations can raise the cash effectively and get aid in they should do it.

This is s massive humanitarian crisis and I think it transcends religion and politics. Anyone with a network and resources should be helping!

The Philippians is very definitely quite a stable country too. I don't think anyone will be shifting their political opinions or religious outlooks too much.
It's not going to be 'missionary work' for any organisation really.

I'd like to see a few Vatican luxuries going up for auction to help out though.

A lot of mega rich individuals and companies could cough up too!

There's a lot being left up to governments, most of which are in massive debt already. It's long overdue that some of these tax-avoiding mega-corps and financial services empires donated a few quid!

TomCleverly

I'm all for having a laugh at the catholic church's expense and feel the same as some of ye, but what's so bad about them helping some people out. Regardless of the religious reasoning, or where half the money goes there still doing something about it and there's no denying there helping a lot of people when they really need it.

Now I'm not trying to say there great or anything like that, but why slag them for the little good they do do.

Benny_Cake

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Actually as far as I know he was asking people to bring food to help a centre in Dublin that gives it out to the people of the city that need it because there is such a demand for it due to the harsh economic times we all live in.

Yeah, that's what I saw. Crosscare have a number of food banks around Dublin which are running short on food:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/archbishop-appeals-for-food-to-alleviate-hunger-in-dublin-1.1594923

He didn't mention the Philippines last night, not that I can see what the problem would be if he had.

gaynorvader

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

And when something IS done it's presumed to be a callous act to manipulate or take care of only "the flock", not humankind as a whole.
How exactly do you win on this one ?

What? I don't care what their motivations are. If you look at my previous post here, you'll see I was saying that everyone is more inclined to help out people if they belong to the same group. That it's human nature.
I have no idea how I might 'win' on this one? My response to J C was simply pointing out that simply praying or feeling love is not enough to help anyone by themselves.

robindch

In reference to another tragedy, in another country and well-substantiated allegations that christian missionaries were using it to proselytize:

AlanG

The Catholic Church has the infrastructure to distribute aid to catholic countries so it is sensible for them to focus on those. No point on having lots of aid for Syria or somewhere you can’t distribute efficiently. The main problem with relief aid is local organisation and distribution.

TheIrishGrover

OK, so the catholic church is Big Evil Organisation (tm) Fair enough. Whatever. I have no love for the church. Any church. Have considered myself an athiest for almost 30 years. However they have the connections, the inroads, the trust of the local people and local governments. They know the people and the areas due to their missions or whatever you wish to call them. How many secular aid organisations have the same level of access? From a purely logistical point of view the catholic church along with secular organisations can probably get to a lot more people than secular orgs on their own.

People have dismissed other posts that went along the lines of "Love, prayers and money will help". Oh love won't help, prayers do f*ck all etc etc. Hands working are better than hands praying.

I would rather have hands praying AND hands working there than no hands at all.

I don't believe in churches holding aid to ransom. I also don't believe in non religious groups holding aid to ransom.

People said "Oh yeah, first into The Philippines but where were they with Syria, huh?" Syria is a mainly Muslim country with only 10% christian. They're not going to have the same access as other groups. They may not be wanted at all.

cpier

I am no longer a practicing Catholic and therefore I do get the point the OP is making, but essentially the Catholic Church is contributing to alleviate human tragedy in the Philippines, regardless of your religion.

Glib I know but its hardly likely that there is an ID parade at the locations where the aid is being given out.

"Do you have your Catholic ID?, No? , well then, no food/assistance for you".

vicwatson

TomCleverly wrote: »

I'm all for having a laugh at the catholic church's expense and feel the same as some of ye, but what's so bad about them helping some people out. Regardless of the religious reasoning, or where half the money goes there still doing something about it and there's no denying there helping a lot of people when they really need it.

Now I'm not trying to say there great or anything like that, but why slag them for the little good they do do.

Because with the Catholic Church there always comes conditions. They should get as much aid as required unconditionally.

ewan whose army

I don't mind Church groups assisting people in need, at least the Vatican is spending some of its immense wealth on people who actually need help.

My Grandparents were Salvationists and while I don't agree with their anti-LGBT stance I still give them money since they do actually help a lot of people even if the US operation is slightly less admirable.

At least they are helping, I remember after 7/7 (London terror attacks) the Scientologists had some form of assistance where they offered people massages (seriously) and literally got in the way to stop grief councillors and you know proper psychologists in to help the victims.

Brian Shanahan

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Trocaire and some of the Irish orders have a long history in the Philippines

Must be some of Eamonn Casey's illegitimate sons out there then.