Flu Shots

MadsL

Have you had one?

My FB feed is full of alarmist nonsense and pseudo-science about them.

Are any Irish healthcare workers forced to have them?

The Big Smoke

They done busted my stinkbone.

clairefontaine

MadsL wrote: »

Have you had one?

My FB feed is full of alarmist nonsense and pseudo-science about them.

Are any Irish healthcare workers forced to have them?

No and I never will. I've had flu, ice had swine flu too. Hasn't killed me yet.

Jarrod

MadsL wrote: »

Have you had one?

My FB feed is full of alarmist nonsense and pseudo-science about them.

Are any Irish healthcare workers forced to have them?

Irish healthcare workers are advised to get them, at least where I'm working at the minute. I've spent the last three winters working in hospitals, got a flu vaccine one year and didn't the other two, I've never had the flu.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

I'll take Jager shots and Vodka shots, never heard of Flu shots, what percentage are they?

Xeyn

We are strongly encouraged to have them, but no one is forced. Recently attended a meeting where in certain big dublin hospitals the biggest uptake is amongst doctors.
If youre high risk then its worth while getting it.
Its a difficult product to produce because the virus mutates so quickly its hard to 'stay ahead of the game'.

Im young fit and healthy otherwise but will get mine this year as im a healthcare worker. Problem is he hospital where i work is pretty ridiculous about it. If you miss one appointment (1 day, 2 hour window during the working day) the next appointment is 7 weeks later.

Links234

MadsL wrote: »

My FB feed is full of alarmist nonsense and pseudo-science about them.

Be it bull**** about flu jabs, homeopathy, miracle fruit that cures cancer, I just want to slap people who post that crap.

PS, did Kony win the election in 2012 after all?

Princess Peach

My company gave them to us if we wanted. I got one, and I got a lolly and a bravery sticker for being a big girl

Miaireland

Jarrod wrote: »

Irish healthcare workers are advised to get them, at least where I'm working at the minute. I've spent the last three winters working in hospitals, got a flu vaccine one year and didn't the other two, I've never had the flu.

I am the same. I had alot of pressure on me to get it my first year working in an hse enviroment but haven't bother with it for the last three years and have avoided the flu so far.

rawn

My dad has to get one every year. It just makes me wonder what the point is, because IIRC, the flu is a constantly mutating virus, and once we've had a particular strain and fight it off, we're immune to it? So how would a vaccination work if every strain is different

The Backwards Man

I've never even had a cold in my life, never mind the flu. I had to go to the doctor for an eyetest the other day, she told me it was my first time there since 1998, and she was glad she wasn't depending on me to pay the mortgage.:pac:

Xeyn

rawn wrote: »

My dad has to get one every year. It just makes me wonder what the point is, because IIRC, the flu is a constantly mutating virus, and once we've had a particular strain and fight it off, we're immune to it? So how would a vaccination work if every strain is different

There is seasonal flu which is the current mutated strain, this is why the flu vaccice given every year is different - its tied to the current prominent strain. This years vaccine wont work nearly as well next year.

Jarrod

Miaireland wrote: »

I am the same. I had alot of pressure on me to get it my first year working in an hse enviroment but haven't bother with it for the last three years and have avoided the flu so far.

To be honest, I only got it that time because I was having a rotten day and a half hour break in the afternoon was all too welcome, also the hospital paid for it. Where I am at the minute, I'd have to do it in my own time and at my own cost.

MadsL

clairefontaine wrote: »

No and I never will. I've had flu, ice had swine flu too. Hasn't killed me yet.

I can't help but think you would be one of those anti-vaccines crowd. Not meant as an insult but you seem pretty fiercely independent.

Would you have one if you worked in hospital?

My name is URL

rawn wrote: »

My dad has to get one every year. It just makes me wonder what the point is, because IIRC, the flu is a constantly mutating virus, and once we've had a particular strain and fight it off, we're immune to it? So how would a vaccination work if every strain is different

The point of the vaccine isn't really to stop people contracting the virus, it's to prepare and boost the immune response if it is contracted. That makes it more difficult for the virus to be passed on to others, meaning less people effected overall, and less chance of you getting it yourself.

There's no DNA or anything derived from any specific variant of the virus contained in the vaccine, so it's not designed to protect you from any strain.. that's why people get it every year and not just the once.

wretcheddomain

I took the flu vaccine and died but it didn't do me in harm in the long run.

clairefontaine

MadsL wrote: »

I can't help but think you would be one of those anti-vaccines crowd. Not meant as an insult but you seem pretty fiercely independent.

Would you have one if you worked in hospital?

No im not anti vaccine in general. But when it comes to flu and swine flu and chicken pox, I start feeling hen pecked and a little bullied by the pharmas, when I don't feel it's all that necessary especially when there are so many strains of flu and the flu shot is only one strain.

For things like polio, measles, whooping cough, which have had some terrible terrible consequences, then I don't have a problem with them.

Now we have HPV vaccine, probably an HIV vaccine too, probably one for ulcers, probably one for farting too much, yadda yadda.

tosspot15

rawn wrote: »

My dad has to get one every year. It just makes me wonder what the point is, because IIRC, the flu is a constantly mutating virus, and once we've had a particular strain and fight it off, we're immune to it? So how would a vaccination work if every strain is different

They create a new flu vaccine every year to immunise against the most prevalent strain this time round.

Thats why you have to get it every year, and its not a once off vaccine.

weisses

There is a new influenza vaccine being tested and researched. Scientists believe they have a “blue print” for treating, and even stopping, all strains of influenza. The theory was tested by a team at Imperial College of London. A group of 342 staff and students were injected with the 2009 swine flu. The group was also treated with this new revolutionary vaccine for influenza. Those who received the influenza vaccine, showed significantly less symptoms, and for every one who had them, the symptoms were less severe. Professor Ajit Lalvani stated that he hopes the vaccine to be “‘The Holy Grail’ in producing in more CD8T cells.” Apparently, the more CD8T cells our body produces, the less infections we would get, and the less often illnesses like influenza would infect us.

http://guardianlv.com/2013/09/influenza-vaccine-a-miracle-drug-coming/

Wibbs

The only immunisation I've ever had was for polio, suck on a sugar lump and away you go(well that's how they used to do it anyway). Didn't catch or caught and survived everything else that did the rounds. It seems I'm immune to herpes and infectious TB too(been heavily exposed to both). Never had an antibiotic either. I've had the flu the odd time, but usually it's mild. The swine flu was a heavy one though. Knocked me for six for a week and felt like a wrung out dishcloth for a month after. I gather if you had the swine flu it actually provides immunity to quite a number of flus. Something about it's makeup sets your body up to repel newer bastards?

Menas

Work gave me the jab for free. I gladly accepted. But it was for 'ordinary' flu...not the man one.

Xeyn

clairefontaine wrote: »

No im not anti vaccine in general. But when it comes to flu and swine flu and chicken pox, I start feeling hen pecked and a little bullied by the pharmas, when I don't feel it's all that necessary especially when there are so many strains of flu and the flu shot is only one strain.

For things like polio, measles, whooping cough, which have had some terrible terrible consequences, then I don't have a problem with them.

Now we have HPV vaccine, probably an HIV vaccine too, probably one for ulcers, probably one for farting too much, yadda yadda.

Hence why its only advised for high risk groups like the elderly and health care workers.
The 'ordinary flu' kills every year- mainly our aged.

clairefontaine

Xeyn wrote: »

Hence why its only advised for high risk groups like the elderly and health care workers.
The 'ordinary flu' kills every year- mainly our aged.

Yeah sorry I Wa responding to madsl. In our part of the world its pushed in every corner drug store imaginable.

Xeyn

clairefontaine wrote: »

Yeah sorry I Wa responding to madsl. In our part of the world its pushed in every corner drug store imaginable.

Wheres that my i ask?

clairefontaine

Wibbs wrote: »

The only immunisation I've ever had was for polio, suck on a sugar lump and away you go(well that's how they used to do it anyway). Didn't catch or caught and survived everything else that did the rounds. It seems I'm immune to herpes and infectious TB too(been heavily exposed to both). Never had an antibiotic either. I've had the flu the odd time, but usually it's mild. The swine flu was a heavy one though. Knocked me for six for a week and felt like a wrung out dishcloth for a month after. I gather if you had the swine flu it actually provides immunity to quite a number of flus. Something about it's makeup sets your body up to repel newer bastards?

Measles has made a comeback. A few years ago there were a couple of infants in NUIG hospital with measles.

The herd is not protected anymore. One of the reasons the unimmunised didn't catch things, is that everyone else was getting vaccinated.

I had swine flue too. Boy was that a whopper.

What you catch can often just depend on constitution. I had a very strong one as a child, my brother on the other hand not so lucky.

And chicken pox can be a roulette too. You can get a bad dose on your skin and be ok, but if gets into your lungs as a child, serious danger.

clairefontaine

Xeyn wrote: »

Wheres that my i ask?

USA

Jarrod

clairefontaine wrote: »

USA

I was there last winter and people were as amazed that I hadn't had a flu 'shot' as I was that they had! These were people who weren't in any of 'at risk' groups. I remember hearing on the news over there at the time that they were expecting a particularly bad outbreak. I don't know if that ever materialised but I was there a couple of months and nobody I knew got the flu.

GrumPy

My company was offering them for free recently, but I'm 25, not 55 so I passed. :cool:

*cough, splutter*

Pixie Chief

It's the 'every year to match the latest strain going round' bit that gets me wondering? How can they possibly produce a vaccine to deal with current strain, test it and produce it safely all in 12 months given the extensive and rigorous testing that other vaccines require? Not being a naysayer...just makes me wonder?

The Dom

Links234 wrote: »

Be it bull**** about flu jabs, homeopathy, miracle fruit that cures cancer, I just want to slap people who post that crap.

You do realise that just because you want to slap them, doesn't automatically mean they're wrong.

I'm sure some of them are wrong mind, but I'm also sure some of them are right.

Nothing annoys me more than people that aren't even willing to listen to an idea unless the mainstream has accepted it and peer reviewed it.

Stress causing ulcers; fluoride being harmless; cholesterol being the cause of arteriosclerosis, etc etc. All things which were challenged by researchers as being bogus, long long before mainstream scientists would so much as even listen to the opposing hypothesis.

Not suggesting you should just believe every silly thing that's claimed online but you also shouldn't just dismiss everything off and assume that what they are saying is nonsense just because mainstream scientists haven't endorsed it. To do so would just mean that you are as guilty of precisely what the vast majority of the people you are criticising undoubtedly are: ignorance.

MadsL

The Dom wrote: »

You do realise that just because you want to slap them, doesn't automatically mean they're wrong.

I'm sure some of them are wrong mind, but I'm also sure some of them are right.

Nothing annoys me more than people that aren't even willing to listen to an idea unless the mainstream has accepted it and peer reviewed it.

Stress causing ulcers; fluoride being harmless; cholesterol being the cause of arteriosclerosis, etc etc. All things which were challenged by researchers as being bogus, long long before mainstream scientists would so much as even listen to the opposing hypothesis.

Not suggesting you should just believe every silly thing that's claimed online but you also shouldn't just dismiss everything off and assume that what they are saying is nonsense just because mainstream scientists haven't endorsed it. To do so would just mean that you are as guilty of precisely what the vast majority of the people you are criticising undoubtedly are: ignorance.

Yes but you get crap like vaccines contain mercury and the world's leading this that said yadda - then you google them and find they were struck off 20 years ago.

Here's a sample.

http://www.whydontyoutrythis.com/2013/09/11-reasons-why-flu-shots-are-more-dangerous-than-a-flu.html

A bit of googling finds...

Thiomerosal is an ethyl mercury compound and has never been shown to be harmful. But despite no evidence of a link to autism it was removed in 2001. The nasal spray contains no Thiomerosal.

Fudenberg was a proponent of the discredited theory that there was a connection between the MMR vaccine and autism. In 1995 Fudenberg's medical license was suspended for improperly obtaining controlled substances.

poundapunnet

Haven't had it, just because I don't usually get the 'flu (touch wood). Last time I had it was swine flu, oh boy, that was a doozie!

clairefontaine

You can always get the flu mist too.

Xeyn

The Dom wrote: »

Nothing annoys me more than people that aren't even willing to listen to an idea unless the mainstream has accepted it and peer reviewed it.

Stress causing ulcers; fluoride being harmless; cholesterol being the cause of arteriosclerosis, etc etc. All things which were challenged by researchers as being bogus, long long before mainstream scientists would so much as even listen to the opposing hypothesis.

The main difference is that most alternative 'therapies' have been tried, tested and peer reviewed and found to be wanting. If something has any worth it will undergo the scientific process just like all the 'mainstream' had to go through before they were deemed to be viable treatments. The problem people have with 'alternative' therapies is that many of its advocates seem to think they can be exempt scientific analysis to see if it actually works.

clairefontaine

Jarrod wrote: »

I was there last winter and people were as amazed that I hadn't had a flu 'shot' as I was that they had! These were people who weren't in any of 'at risk' groups. I remember hearing on the news over there at the time that they were expecting a particularly bad outbreak. I don't know if that ever materialised but I was there a couple of months and nobody I knew got the flu.

I think alot of kids died last year from flu complications.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/29/us-healthy-children-idUSBRE99S17220131029

Teyla Emmagan

I'm getting it in work. I had swine flu a few years ago, never again. I couldn't even go downstairs for more water at one point. It absolutely floored me.

Mint Aero

I'm too afraid to have a medical professional in Ireland stick a needle in me unnecessarily.

GalwayGuy2

Knocked me for six for a week and felt like a wrung out dishcloth for a month after

For six week?

If it' cheap, I'll reckon i'll get it.

Wibbs

clairefontaine wrote: »

The herd is not protected anymore. One of the reasons the unimmunised didn't catch things, is that everyone else was getting vaccinated.

True, though in my case and that of my peers way back in the day no one was. Measles, chicken pox, mumps and all that were just childhood milestones, that got a few days off school. Yay!

And chicken pox can be a roulette too. You can get a bad dose on your skin and be ok, but if gets into your lungs as a child, serious danger.

Oh sure, but again of my peers and my school in general I have zero recollection of any complications from what were seen as "things you just caught", never mind fatalities. Don't get me wrong CF, yes there are kids who might well be badly hit, but IMHO there's also an element of panic that can set in. I recall an "outbreak" of measles in some school in the UK a few years back and it was hitting the news programmes and the usual deeply concerned vox pops of parents and health workers really winding the whole thing up, yet as I say back in the 70's it wouldn't have raised an eyebrow. I know the hippies are suggesting all this "big pharma" is weakening us and I find that well bloody dubious, though I do wonder when so many kids today are allergic, sometimes violently to all sorts of things and every third kid is huffing an inhaler. As a kid I knew one guy with asthma. One out of a hundred odd in my school year. I knew of one guy with hayfever. I remember him, because in those less enlightened times we used to call him the "Chinaman" as his eyelids would swell up and go like slits. And this was a time when damn near everyone was exposed to ciggie smoke all over the place, was getting immunised only for the real dodgy stuff, cars had no catylitic converters(and the petrol was leaded) etc. Something has defo changed in the last 30 years. Food? Everything is too clean, so immune systems don't get tested? Vaccinations? Who knows, but something has happened. That something happened in the US before us too, so what were we slow to take up?

byhookorbycrook

I am on an MS treatment that is an immunomodulator and as a teacher and with coughing and spluttering at this time of year in particular., I have to get it.

weisses

I wonder how this story ended

http://news.yahoo.com/nurses-fired-refusing-flu-shot-224637902--abc-news-health.html

clairefontaine

Wibbs wrote: »

True, though in my case and that of my peers way back in the day no one was. Measles, chicken pox, mumps and all that were just childhood milestones, that got a few days off school. Yay!



Oh sure, but again of my peers and my school in general I have zero recollection of any complications from what were seen as "things you just caught", never mind fatalities. Don't get me wrong CF, yes there are kids who might well be badly hit, but IMHO there's also an element of panic that can set in. I recall an "outbreak" of measles in some school in the UK a few years back and it was hitting the news programmes and the usual deeply concerned vox pops of parents and health workers really winding the whole thing up, yet as I say back in the 70's it wouldn't have raised an eyebrow. I know the hippies are suggesting all this "big pharma" is weakening us and I find that well bloody dubious, though I do wonder when so many kids today are allergic, sometimes violently to all sorts of things and every third kid is huffing an inhaler. As a kid I knew one guy with asthma. One out of a hundred odd in my school year. I knew of one guy with hayfever. I remember him, because in those less enlightened times we used to call him the "Chinaman" as his eyelids would swell up and go like slits. And this was a time when damn near everyone was exposed to ciggie smoke all over the place, was getting immunised only for the real dodgy stuff, cars had no catylitic converters(and the petrol was leaded) etc. Something has defo changed in the last 30 years. Food? Everything is too clean, so immune systems don't get tested? Vaccinations? Who knows, but something has happened.

I totally see what you are talking about and would share the same experience. There was always just 1 or two kids with inhalers, no one was on meds for ADHD, peanut allergies wtf? I definitely think a couple of things have happened, one is the food has changed, especially in the US, and also hygiene freakery where we are cleaning ourselves to death.

Could also be antibiotic over usage, and I can't put my finger on it, but I also suspect it has something to do with spending more time indoors. Kids aren't outside anymore. I noticed with my own little one, that in Ireland the weather was so bad we were inside alot. When we came back to the US much more outdoor time and he has been growing like no ones business. In Ireland where we spent a lot of indoor time, he wasn't growing. I'm not a scientist and I know its correlative, but I suspect there is something there.

So possibly what his could mean is that when you do catch the chicken pox, you will get a much more dangerous dose because you were weaker in the first place. I notice in Ireland, again more indoor time, EVERY January I am wollopped with a flu or tracheotis or some other phenomenally debilitating winter illness. But in the US I rarely get to that level of illness. Im sure the indoor/outdoor relationship has something to do with that and also why you see kids today with all these allergies.

sea_monkey

Pixie Chief wrote: »

It's the 'every year to match the latest strain going round' bit that gets me wondering? How can they possibly produce a vaccine to deal with current strain, test it and produce it safely all in 12 months given the extensive and rigorous testing that other vaccines require? Not being a naysayer...just makes me wonder?

the new strain usually always comes from Asia.

Where we have DNA, the flu virus has 8 RNA strands. These RNA strands are constantly changing their make-up by either one or more of the strands getting mutated or by mixing with other flu viruses.

So say you have 2 flu viruses in the same host, those 8 RNA strands can get mixed and we get a new virus with new properties. This situation causes the worst cases (spanish flu, SARS etc.)

By the time it gets to the West its already mapped and can be vaccinated against.

sea_monkey

clairefontaine wrote: »

I totally see what you are talking about and would share the same experience. There was always just 1 or two kids with inhalers, no one was on meds for ADHD, peanut allergies wtf? I definitely think a couple of things have happened, one is the food has changed, especially in the US, and also hygiene freakery where we are cleaning ourselves to death.

Could also be antibiotic over usage, and I can't put my finger on it, but I also suspect it has something to do with spending more time indoors. Kids aren't outside anymore. I noticed with my own little one, that in Ireland the weather was so bad we were inside alot. When we came back to the US much more outdoor time and he has been growing like no ones business. In Ireland where we spent a lot of indoor time, he wasn't growing. I'm not a scientist and I know its correlative, but I suspect there is something there.

So possibly what his could mean is that when you do catch the chicken pox, you will get a much more dangerous dose because you were weaker in the first place. I notice in Ireland, again more indoor time, EVERY January I am wollopped with a flu or tracheotis or some other phenomenally debilitating winter illness. But in the US I rarely get to that level of illness. Im sure the indoor/outdoor relationship has something to do with that and also why you see kids today with all these allergies.

I'd agree with the statement that children are not exposed enough to different types of micro-organisms to properly develop their immune system.

I would also believe that the increase in movement of the human population is a big factor in the spread of diseases. A couple of centuries ago it would be unheard of to get a virus from somewhere in Asia but now it happens constantly.

Fraggle00

My name is URL wrote: »

The point of the vaccine isn't really to stop people contracting the virus, it's to prepare and boost the immune response if it is contracted. That makes it more difficult for the virus to be passed on to others, meaning less people effected overall, and less chance of you getting it yourself.

There's no DNA or anything derived from any specific variant of the virus contained in the vaccine, so it's not designed to protect you from any strain.. that's why people get it every year and not just the once.

Sorry but this is wrong. The flu vaccine is specific to three particular strains.

Pixie Chief

sea_monkey wrote: »

the new strain usually always comes from Asia.

Where we have DNA, the flu virus has 8 RNA strands. These RNA strands are constantly changing their make-up by either one or more of the strands getting mutated or by mixing with other flu viruses.

So say you have 2 flu viruses in the same host, those 8 RNA strands can get mixed and we get a new virus with new properties. This situation causes the worst cases (spanish flu, SARS etc.)

By the time it gets to the West its already mapped and can be vaccinated against.

Ok, I completely get that but when do they have time to test the vaccine's safety? If each vaccine is slightly different and treating a different strain are these just pumped out without testing? It probably sounds as though I'm being argumentative, honestly not trying to be! The fact that they have these available so fast concerns me.

clairefontaine

MadsL wrote: »

Yes but you get crap like vaccines contain mercury and the world's leading this that said yadda - then you google them and find they were struck off 20 years ago.

Here's a sample.

http://www.whydontyoutrythis.com/2013/09/11-reasons-why-flu-shots-are-more-dangerous-than-a-flu.html

A bit of googling finds...

Thiomerosal is an ethyl mercury compound and has never been shown to be harmful. But despite no evidence of a link to autism it was removed in 2001. The nasal spray contains no Thiomerosal.

Fudenberg was a proponent of the discredited theory that there was a connection between the MMR vaccine and autism. In 1995 Fudenberg's medical license was suspended for improperly obtaining controlled substances.

This is a good read.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/toxic-myths-about-vaccines/

Doctor Strange

I get the shot now as a precaution. Had the flu a few years ago, and I never want to feel that ill again. Could barely move for a week through a combination of fatigue and joint pains, head was blocked up. It was just rotten.

Polka_Dot

clairefontaine wrote: »

No im not anti vaccine in general. But when it comes to flu and swine flu and chicken pox, I start feeling hen pecked and a little bullied by the pharmas, when I don't feel it's all that necessary especially when there are so many strains of flu and the flu shot is only one strain.

For things like polio, measles, whooping cough, which have had some terrible terrible consequences, then I don't have a problem with them.

Now we have HPV vaccine, probably an HIV vaccine too, probably one for ulcers, probably one for farting too much, yadda yadda.

The HPV vaccine helps prevent cervical cancer, I'd consider that a terrible consequence. Likewise with HIV, though there isn't a vaccine for that yet.

Davelarson

Unforgettable _ Fire wrote: »

I get the shot now as a precaution. Had the flu a few years ago, and I never want to feel that ill again. Could barely move for a week through a combination of fatigue and joint pains, head was blocked up. It was just rotten.

I've had the flu twice in my life and its a nasty dose. Both times I was bed ridden for 3 days. I can see why it would be a serious concern for young children and the elderly.

krudler

Got one today, am on meds that make my immune system sh1te so have to, and I work in an office full of coughers and sneezers and the air con spreading it everywhere, place is a germ factory at this time of year.