2.5 Months in a rented flat, mould in the bedrooms.

brembo26

Hi all,

Me and a mate moved into a rented ground floor apartment 2.5 months ago and the bedrooms are fairly effected by mould even though we have been heating them in the evenings with electric wall mounted heaters and ventilating them during the day as much as possible.

I just wanted to know what the standard procedure is about this and getting it sorted or even moving out and retrieving the deposit back because we have hardly started the winter and this is happening already.

Thanks in advance!

djimi

Have you informed the landlord of the issue?

brembo26

Indeed I have.

Also informed the landlord the the storage heaters (different to the ones in the bedrooms) are not operating.

djimi

Has the landlord taken any steps to resolve the issue?

The heating not working is probably a bigger issue tbh; that is a basic obligation of the landlord to get repaired.

brembo26

Okay, what's a reasonable time frame to have these issues resolved do you think?

We are also registered with the PRTB.

edit: no steps taken yet. Haven't been given a time to be at the house or anything so I have contacted them again this morning.

djimi

To get the heating fixed? No more than a week in winter really. It depends on the effort being made; if they are making an effort and having an issue getting parts etc then leeway can be given (within reason) but if they have made no effort to even look at the problem then Id be getting pretty pissy with them after a couple of days tbh.

brembo26

Just been told by the landlord that, "Once there is adequate heating & ventilation condensation should not occur which encourages mould."

What do you say to that? Already explained we are doing that as much as we can. Its only possible to open the windows so much with the way the weather has gone but the heating is always on in the evenings.

djimi

Condensation is only one potential cause of mould. Its caused by dampness, which could also point to other issues with the property (ie a leak somewhere).

brembo26

Cheers, By the reply I got from the landlord it seems as if the blame is being put on us. Rather not have this hassle just before the Christmas.

Id love if there was just a way out now and get it over with instead of having to live with the mould for the remainder of the contract. Cant risk loosing the deposit either.

Michael D Not Higgins

Where is the mould accumulating? I live in a fairly old building with single pane sash windows coupled with no drying facilities beyond the rads under the windows means condensation on the window frames which I clean with a bleach solution from time to time.

josip

OP, are you drying clothes inside on the rads/clothes dryer?
If not, and you're not running a humidifier or something, then it's the fault of the building. If there's obvious mold you can ask the landlord to either rectify it or you will contact the HSE (I think) to get the flat condemned which will allow you to break the contract.

brembo26

Window frames, walls (not just exteriors), wooden chair in the bedroom, personal belongings and clothes in wardrobes. That's off the top of my head. Living room/Kitchen doesn't seem effected.

We have a clothes horse in the hallway. Not near the bedrooms. we have a washer/dryer in the kitchen but we don't use the dryer (keeping electricity costs down) and the rad in the hallway also hasn't been working since we moved in as well the one in the Living room/kitchen.

hfallada

I have visited dozens apartments with tenants giving out about the mould problem. You generally find they are drying clothes in the apartment, not using the extractor fan in the bathroom. And when you look for vents they are taped over to cut down on the heating bill. Most old mould problems are tenant related and not generally the building its self,

http://reviews.diy.com/2191-en_gb/10287856/reviews.htm

This spray is the only one that kills the mould and keeps it away for good. Its very expensive but works unlike the cheap and ****ty supermarket ones.

josip

brembo26 wrote: »

Window frames, walls (not just exteriors), wooden chairs, personal belongings and clothes in wardrobes. Thats off the top of my head. Living room/Kitchen doesnt seem effected.

We have a clothes horse in the hallway. Not near the bedrooms.

I suspect that the clothes horse in the hallway is your problem. If you're drying clothes indoors you'll need either a very draughty house or an air management system to prevent mould.

Think how much the wet clothes weigh and how much lighter they are when they're dry. That's the amount of moisture you're adding to the air each time.

The hallway is possibly warmer or there is airflow that moves the moisture away from the hallway.

brembo26

hfallada wrote: »

You generally find they are drying clothes in the apartment, not using the extractor fan in the bathroom. And when you look for vents they are taped over to cut down on the heating bill.

Extractor fan comes on automatically when light is turned on. There is no vents in any of the rooms. Windows are opened on a daily basis for as long as possible until it gets to cold. Clothes are generally outside drying on a close horse unless its raining and even at that there is only two of us and only do a wash once a week or so.

MouseTail

Try not using the clothes horse, use the dryer and laundrette instead, and see if the mould reappears.
Sounds to me like this is the issue.

hfallada

brembo26 wrote: »

Extractor fan comes on automatically when light is turned on. There is no vents in any of the rooms. Windows are opened on a daily basis for as long as possible until it gets to cold. Clothes are generally outside drying on a close horse unless its raining and even at that there is only two of us and only do a wash once a week or so.

Dublin City council regulations states you have to have a vent in everyroom. A small slip vent on a window is not good enough. Ask the landlord for vents to be installed. It takes about 20 mins with a rented core drill. You would be surprised with how much moisture a body can produce.

mrsdewinter

MouseTail wrote: »

Try not using the clothes horse, use the dryer and laundrette instead, and see if the mould reappears.
Sounds to me like this is the issue.

Is there no other solution to the problem of mould? I live in an apartment, with no access to an outdoors clothes line... why should I (or the OP) have to pay extra for a basic housekeeping chore?

djimi

MouseTail wrote: »

Try not using the clothes horse, use the dryer and laundrette instead, and see if the mould reappears.
Sounds to me like this is the issue.

I agree with this. Especially if you are drying clothes in the hall, which is the one place in the house where there is almost guaranteed to have no ventilation.

If nothing else, it rules out one possible reason for the mould, and also rules out a possible reason why it could be said that its your fault.

Ray Palmer

mrsdewinter wrote: »

Is there no other solution to the problem of mould? I live in an apartment, with no access to an outdoors clothes line... why should I (or the OP) have to pay extra for a basic housekeeping chore?

Because you are damaging the rented property and who ever lives there property . Drying clothes in side a modern building or an upgraded building will cause mould.

Do you know how much it costs to use the drier? It is a false economy if you are making the place hard to live in.

If you owned the property yourself would you want it ruined by mould? You simply can't dry clothes inside and not expect mould. If you can't afford to dry your clothes then you should look for a property where you can dry them outside.

If I was the LL I would be telling you to pay for treating the mould.

brembo26

Just to update, landlord was around yesterday and informed me that he knew the problem exists in the apartment and are looking at ways to treat/prevent this mould from occurring.

I will not be paying to treat any mould after responsibility has taken by the landlord.

handlemaster

Ventilation. Open windows

brembo26

handlemaster wrote: »

Ventilation. Open windows

Thanks, been doing that everyday. Doesn't help.

Kimbot

You say the heaters arent working right in the bedrooms. That's part of the problem right there, get the heaters fixed, warm the rooms up and the mould should disappear

MicktheMan

brembo26 wrote: »

Just to update, landlord was around yesterday and informed me that he knew the problem exists in the apartment and are looking at ways to treat/prevent this mould from occurring.

pm sent

How Strange

We live in an apartment and invested in a tumble dryer when our first baby was born. We use it all the time in the winter and we've never noticed any significant increase in our electricity bills. We try to use it at off peak times as much as possible.

Before we had the dryer we used a dehumidifier when drying clothes inside. You would be amazed at how much water it caught and made is realise that the water would be in the air otherwise.

Electric Sheep

mrsdewinter wrote: »

Is there no other solution to the problem of mould? I live in an apartment, with no access to an outdoors clothes line... why should I (or the OP) have to pay extra for a basic housekeeping chore?

Because you don't want mould.

ted1

hfallada wrote: »

Dublin City council regulations states you have to have a vent in everyroom. A small slip vent on a window is not good enough. Ask the landlord for vents to be installed. It takes about 20 mins with a rented core drill. You would be surprised with how much moisture a body can produce.

Link to the regulation, I find it odd especially as buildings are trying to be air tight

brembo26

jonny24ie wrote: »

You say the heaters arent working right in the bedrooms. That's part of the problem right there, get the heaters fixed, warm the rooms up and the mould should disappear

No the heater in the living room and hall are not working. The bedroom heaters are working fine

brembo26

Here's a few pics :pac:
https://imageshack.com/i/nlt608j

Edit: go left first to get to the start.

djimi

brembo26 wrote: »

No the heater in the living room and hall are not working. The bedroom heaters are working fine

If there is no heat in the hall and presumably no ventilation (as halls do not tend to have windows) then drying your clothes there is almost certainly contributing to the problem.

brembo26

On the odd occasion when they cant be left outside drying yeah, maybe. Noticed a tile coming away from the wall in the bathroom where mould is present. Been like that since we moved in, never paid much attention to it till now. Hardly happening because of a little drying inside?

djimi

It might not entirely be down to drying inside, but drying clothes in an unventilated space certainly isnt helping matters.

From looking at the pictures it looks like its more than just a little mould problem to be fair; to my untrained eye that looks like an actual damp problem. Especially the mould on the cushions; thats fairly extreme.

kieran.

hfallada wrote: »

Dublin City council regulations states you have to have a vent in everyroom. A small slip vent on a window is not good enough.

I've never came across this regulation before nor can't seem to find it in the information on DCC websitehttp://www.dublincity.ie/housing/environmentalhealth/environmentalhealth/pages/ventilation.aspx

Building regs dicates In general, the minimum total equivalent area of background ventilators providing general ventilation should be 30,000mm2 with an additional 5,000 mm2 for each additional 10 m2 floor area above the first 70m2 of floor area measured. For single storey dwellings situated at ground level or on any storey up to four storeys, an additional 5,000 mm2 per dwelling should be provided.

It doesnt matter if this is satisfied by wall vents or trickle vent or other means as long as its provided.

brembo26

kieran. wrote: »

It doesnt matter if this is satisfied by wall vents or trickle vent or other means as long as its provided.

My bedroom and the main bathroom doesn't have one anyway.

blacklilly

I've spoken to countless landlords and tenants over the years regarding mould growth/dampness in their apartments (funny how these issues never seem so prevalent in houses). Anyway I always inform them to ensure there is adequate ventilation in the property, that extractor fans run for a minimum of 15 minutes (most are only set to run between 3-7 mins) with the bathroom/ en suite door closed.

Trying to explain to someone who is not familiar with building issues/surveying that even drying a few items of clothing in an apartment can cause serious mould growth is near impossible and is more often than not met with an exasperated explanation of how they know how important ventilation etc is.

99% of the time, mould growth in apartments is due to lack of ventilation. If there is an underlying building issue I would presume that the management company/managing agents/landlord would be aware of same.
your landlord can of course engage a surveyor at a cost of €400-500 to inspect the apartment but the chances are the surveyor will make numerous recommendations regarding ventilation and only after all these recommendation have been followed correctly will the surveyor carry out more investigative work.

MicktheMan

blacklilly wrote: »

99% of the time, mould growth in apartments is due to lack of ventilation. If there is an underlying building issue I would presume that the management company/managing agents/landlord would be aware of same.
your landlord can of course engage a surveyor at a cost of €400-500 to inspect the apartment but the chances are the surveyor will make numerous recommendations regarding ventilation and only after all these recommendation have been followed correctly will the surveyor carry out more investigative work.

I agree and would add that any property can develop a mould problem if the right conditions are allowed. This is why I always recommend to landlords to install a tamper proof ventilation system that will handle anything the tenants throw at it and not rely on the minimum allowed in the building regs.

blacklilly

hfallada wrote: »

Dublin City council regulations states you have to have a vent in everyroom. A small slip vent on a window is not good enough. Ask the landlord for vents to be installed. It takes about 20 mins with a rented core drill. You would be surprised with how much moisture a body can produce.

As far as I know that regulation relates to current building standards which are not retrospective.

Ray Palmer

I have rented places out for many years without any damp problems. A new tenant moved in and suddenly there is a damp problem. Given only one thing changed it is common sense that it the cause.
I have it written in the lease that you cannot dry clothes inside the property. It simply causes damp problem. I highlight it and repeat it to the tenants.

Most will ignore this and then complain about damp saying it is too expensive to run a dryer and that the washing could not possible cause the problem. Ask them how much the dryer costs to run and they have no idea.

If you use a condensing dryer you know roughly 2-3 litres of water come from a single wash and people tend to do two washes over a week. The is like spraying 6 litres of water on the walls. The moisture will condense on the coldest wall. So adding that much water on a wall will cause damp. Even if you only do one wash a week that is a lot of water to keep putting on the same spot without a chance to dry out. You then get mould.

I would make the OP pay for any repairs due to mould for improper use of the property

djimi

Do you offer your tenants a proper dryer (as opposed to a washer/dryer combo)? At least part of the reason why I dont particularly bother with the dryer is that the dryer in a washer/dryer combo is next to useless for anything more substantial than underwear. My last place had a proper dryer and it was a much better option.

Ray Palmer

djimi wrote: »

Do you offer your tenants a proper dryer (as opposed to a washer/dryer combo)? At least part of the reason why I dont particularly bother with the dryer is that the dryer in a washer/dryer combo is next to useless for anything more substantial than underwear. My last place had a proper dryer and it was a much better option.

Separate 8kg dryers which is more than the washing machines. There is one tenant that still dries her clothes inside who just lives like an animal. She has MS so I know some of it is difficult for her to do on occasion but it is mostly down to they way she likes to live.

djimi

Thats fair enough. A lot of tenants dry clothes on clothes horses indoors because the alternative provided for them is simply not up to the job.

Grolschevik

djimi wrote: »

Thats fair enough. A lot of tenants dry clothes on clothes horses indoors because the alternative provided for them is simply not up to the job.

Or there is no alternative. No outside drying is allowed in my place.

I run a dehumidifier.

djimi

Grolschevik wrote: »

Or there is no alternative. No outside drying is allowed in my place.

I run a dehumidifier.

By law you must be provided with an alternative where no outside drying is possible (assuming you are renting).

Grolschevik

djimi wrote: »

By law you must be provided with an alternative where no outside drying is possible (assuming you are renting).

Yeah, I know that.

There is an outside deck, but the management company rules forbid visible drying of clothes on it. Luckily it's not enforced (that I've noticed).

I find the dehumidifier really handy though.

Ray Palmer

Grolschevik wrote: »

Yeah, I know that.

There is an outside deck, but the management company rules forbid visible drying of clothes on it. Luckily it's not enforced (that I've noticed).

I find the dehumidifier really handy though.

Then you don't have a place to dry clothes. The LL has to provide a dryer

Grolschevik

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Then you don't have a place to dry clothes. The LL has to provide a dryer

I figured that would be the case, but there really isn't space for a separate dryer (which are the only ones that really work in my experience, unless there have been significant advances in the last few years), and my landlord is so sound and responsive to any other issues there have been that I wouldn't like to burden him with this until and unless the washing machine packs up.

I bought the dehumidifier and it keeps condensation under control as long as it's used regularly.

Eddie2008

I have my apartment rented. Had lived in it for about 8 years, and not a single mold problem. Then i rent it out and within a few months the tenant calls regarding mold. The state of the place was a lot worse than the photos presented here. I almost cried, it was everywhere. The tenant had covered up all the vents and the condensation on the windows was dripping. I asked him about the ventilation and he looked at me is if I had two heads, how dare i blame him etc.

The issue as already mentioned was that he was trying to save money. In addition, they didnt no the importance of putting the fan on while cooking. His wife was cooking at the time, no fan on - hence windows dripping.

Condensation on windows is a clear sign you are NOT ventilating the rooms properly, which I notice on one of the posters photos.

It took me about 20 mins to clean up as I arrived armed with a bottle of bleach. Just add to a damp cloth and apply to area. It will disappear in minutes. And ventilate.

brembo26

Eddie2008 wrote: »

I have my apartment rented. Had lived in it for about 8 years, and not a single mold problem. Then i rent it out and within a few months the tenant calls regarding mold. The state of the place was a lot worse than the photos presented here. I almost cried, it was everywhere. The tenant had covered up all the vents and the condensation on the windows was dripping. I asked him about the ventilation and he looked at me is if I had two heads, how dare i blame him etc.

The issue as already mentioned was that he was trying to save money. In addition, they didnt no the importance of putting the fan on while cooking. His wife was cooking at the time, no fan on - hence windows dripping.

Condensation on windows is a clear sign you are NOT ventilating the rooms properly, which I notice on one of the posters photos.

It took me about 20 mins to clean up as I arrived armed with a bottle of bleach. Just add to a damp cloth and apply to area. It will disappear in minutes. And ventilate.

Right so having the vents not covered and open, having the windows open during the day until the evening when it gets to cold and having the heat on everyday and evening isnt good enough?

Bathroom fans are always used and window left open for a while after showers and always using the fan when cooking also isnt good enough either?

runawaybishop

brembo26 wrote: »

Right so having the vents not covered and open, having the windows open during the day until the evening when it gets to cold and having the heat on everyday and evening isnt good enough?

Bathroom fans are always used and window left open for a while after showers and always using the fan when cooking also isnt good enough either?

Is he your landlord or something?

If you are definitely ventilating adequately and not drying clothes indoors then you have a more serious issue and shoudl notify the landlord, in writing, with a reasonable date you expect it to be fixed. If it is not done then move out, giving proper notice etc.

Eddie2008

The thing with mold is it wont go away till you kill it, not clean even if you are start ventitlating. There are sprays out there, but bleach is a cheaper option provided you are not applying to coloured areas. For that perhaps try the sprays, even dettol spray would work.

When you have killed the mold, ensure the place is dry (ie your heating is working...) and let the air in, which I understand you are doing.