Attn: Learner permit holders!

Henry Ford III

ATTENTION ALL LEARNER DRIVERS:

Operation Learner Driver will take place on 14th November 2013.
This Garda Operation means that there will be checkpoints performed at a number of random locations on this date (which is tomorrow!)

Learner Drivers should
1. Be accompanied by qualified driver.
2. Display L-plates.
3. Be in possession of learner permit/driving licence.

Spread the word around!

MugMugs

In fairness, I'd delete this thread and let them get what's coming to them as this is what they should be doing anyway.

I don't take a zero tolerance view on a lot of things but this is one that I feel should already be heavily enforced.

bazz26

Only on the 14th?

Caliden

When are they checking headlights so all those driving around with barely one can fix it for the day and drive around the other 364 days without giving a shíte

Henry Ford III

MugMugs wrote: »

In fairness, I'd delete this thread and let them get what's coming to them as this is what they should be doing anyway.

I don't take a zero tolerance view on a lot of things but this is one that I feel should already be heavily enforced.

I'd agree with pretty much all of that. Even consistant enforcement is vital.

djimi

Shame itll be like any other "operation" they carry out, where itll be enforced for a day or two and will then go back to its current levels of non-enforcement.

Take the car off them on the spot, heavy fine and loss of permit for two years; only way to sort out this issue really. As it stands learners know full well that there is virtually no chance of there being repurcussions to driving unaccompanied, even if caught.

pcardin

I don't get this either. Why the feck this has to be anounced prior. Just start catching them. The law came in force in July 2008! 5 years ago!!!

djimi

pcardin wrote: »

I don't get this either. Why the feck this has to be anounced prior. Just start catching them. The law came in force in July 2008! 5 years ago!!!

Because its not about catching people, its about making a big song and dance in the media so that they are seen to be doing something.

Anan1

djimi wrote: »

Because its not about catching people, its about making a big song and dance in the media so that they are seen to be doing something.

+1, and it'll probably do more to increase compliance than would catching a few anyway. Of course both would be ideal..

Heroditas

It'll give Uncle Gaybo a warm fuzzy feeling inside.

Mycroft H

Caliden wrote: »

When are they checking headlights so all those driving around with barely one can fix it for the day and drive around the other 364 days without giving a shíte

That was back in Febuary. You must have missed it.

Supergurrier

Ye had 5 years to catch me lads.

Ahh well

corktina

it's all very well having a checkpoint, but what will they do to anyone they catch?

Impound their vehicles at the very least and definitely not let them drive on regardless, which is what they usually do.

Zero tolerance is called for

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Supergurrier wrote: »

Ye had 5 years to catch me lads.

Ahh well

1 year for me! (2009)

corktina wrote: »

it's all very well having a checkpoint, but what will they do to anyone they catch?

Impound their vehicles at the very least and definitely not let them drive on regardless, which is what they usually do.

Zero tolerance is called for

In my experience (I was stopped only twice at checkpoints in the 1 year I drove on a provisional). They either just wave you on if your discs are up to date, or will let you on with a "don't do it again"

jadun

corktina wrote: »

it's all very well having a checkpoint, but what will they do to anyone they catch?

Impound their vehicles at the very least and definitely not let them drive on regardless, which is what they usually do.

Zero tolerance is called for

If that's the case then anyone who gets caught speeding or driving with a mobile should have there cars taking off them. Same thing

corktina

no it's not. They are at least legal to drive on, an unlicensed driver is not.

Gary ITR

jadun wrote: »

If that's the case then anyone who gets caught speeding or driving with a mobile should have there cars taking off them. Same thing

Driving with no license, which is effectively what you're doing on a learners permit, is a lot worse imo.

MugMugs

jadun wrote: »

If that's the case then anyone who gets caught speeding or driving with a mobile should have there cars taking off them. Same thing

The difference between people speeding or using a mobile and those driving on a permit is that those speeding with a full licence have a proven ability to drive. Permit holders don't.

pred racer

Supergurrier wrote: »

Ye had 5 years to catch me lads.

Ahh well

6 for me, all on a first provisional;) although this was back when nobody cared, inculding the insurance companies!

Gary ITR

pred racer wrote: »

6 for me, all on a first provisional;) although this was back when nobody cared, inculding the insurance companies!

It was gas, insurance companies didn't give a ****e.

Although I never drove unaccompanied myself. In fairness I applied for the test the day I got my provisional and had my test a month later. An aul letter from work did wonders in the days of massive backlogs

pred racer

Gary ITR wrote: »

It was gas, insurance companies didn't give a ****e.

Although I never drove unaccompanied myself. In fairness I applied for the test the day I got my provisional and had my test a month later. An aul letter from work did wonders in the days of massive backlogs

Thats why I did it all on a first permit, whenever I moved (for college/job etc) I just got a new one in case I'd get to the end of my second one and have to apply for my test:eek:

visual

I actually feel sorry for L drivers
The financial barrier is very high for them to get behind the wheel
With paying a premium in car insurance compulsory driving lessons and the impracticality of having a full licence driver with them all the time.

When I done my test many moons ago you could drive with leaner permit or as we called it provisional driver licence on your own. Insurance was more expensive but no where like it is now for learner drivers.

My father did teach me how to drive and I took 6 lessons before doing my test. What helped me alot was being able to drive alone on provisional licence for over a year.

The test now isn't any more difficult to back then. Grant you we didn't have a seperate theory test to get provisional licence but it was still a requirement to know the theory for actual test.

Cost wise to do the test it was 6 lessons and price of 1 test.
I think my insurance was twice my fathers at time.
Thats a lot cheaper than today.

Gary ITR

visual wrote: »

I actually feel sorry for L drivers
The financial barrier is very high for them to get behind the wheel
With paying a premium in car insurance compulsory driving lessons and the impracticality of having. g a full licence driver with them all the time.

When I done my test many moons ago you could drive with leaner permit or as we called it provisional driver licence on your own. Insurance was more expensive but no where like it is now for learner drivers.

My father did teach me how to drive and I took 6 lessons before doing my test. What helped me alot was being able to drive alone on provisional licence for over a year.

The test now isn't any more difficult to back then. Grant you we didn't have a seperate theory test to get provisional licence but it was still a requirement to know the theory for actual test.

Cost wise to do the test it was 6 lessons and price of 1 test.
I think my insurance was twice my fathers at time.
Thats a lot cheaper than today.

You could only drive on the 2nd provisional, 1st, 3rd and subsequent you needed to be accompanied.

Lessons now are cheaper than they were when I was learning, €30 per hour was the best I could do and that was buying 10hours together and they insisted on 4 hours of that being used if I wanted the car for the test (which I did)

djimi

visual wrote: »

I actually feel sorry for L drivers
The financial barrier is very high for them to get behind the wheel
With paying a premium in car insurance compulsory driving lessons and the impracticality of having a full licence driver with them all the time.

When I done my test many moons ago you could drive with leaner permit or as we called it provisional driver licence on your own. Insurance was more expensive but no where like it is now for learner drivers.

My father did teach me how to drive and I took 6 lessons before doing my test. What helped me alot was being able to drive alone on provisional licence for over a year.

The test now isn't any more difficult to back then. Grant you we didn't have a seperate theory test to get provisional licence but it was still a requirement to know the theory for actual test.

Cost wise to do the test it was 6 lessons and price of 1 test.
I think my insurance was twice my fathers at time.
Thats a lot cheaper than today.

It was madness back in the day though. You could drive unaccompanied on a second provisional (not on a first) and all you had to do to get a provisional was fill out a form. At least nowadays you need to show a basic knowledge of the RotR before you get a learners permit!

I do feel sorry for learners with the price of lessons though; I went to buy someone a vouchers for lessons recently and nearly had a heart attack when I saw how expensive they have become! I cant remember exactly but I think I paid about £20 a lesson 12/13 years ago.

biko

Source?

Don't tell me facebook...

Dord

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

1 year for me! (2009)



In my experience (I was stopped only twice at checkpoints in the 1 year I drove on a provisional). They either just wave you on if your discs are up to date, or will let you on with a "don't do it again"

I was stopped once and it was a disc check.... on christmas day no less! They didn't check anything else.

Wossack

pred racer wrote: »

6 for me, all on a first provisional;) although this was back when nobody cared, inculding the insurance companies!

I reckon the insurance companies were secretly gleeful at the thought of unaccompanied learners tottling about. Very easy out for them in the event of a serious claim.

JayEnnis

biko wrote: »

Source?

Don't tell me facebook...

Yes, Facebook. The land of unconfirmed rumors that turned the Gardai searching for Marijuana growers into a sex offender on the loose in Wexford. I don't understand how people can just pass these things on without questioning.

Henry Ford III

biko wrote: »

Source?

Don't tell me facebook...

Yep - from Garda Checkpoints Munster page - I've only ever found them to be 100% accurate to be fair.

The Gardai were hardly going to announce it themselves were they?

pajero12

Would there be any leniency for someone holding their learners permit and cert. of competency but haven't had the chance to apply yet.

No Pants

Henry Ford III wrote: »

The Gardai were hardly going to announce it themselves were they?

Why not? They generally do for everything else.

djimi

pajero12 wrote: »

Would there be any leniency for someone holding their learners permit and cert. of competency but haven't had the chance to apply yet.

You mean if you have passed the test but havent gotten the full license yet? Not sure actually. By the letter of the law the answer is probably no, however you are technically a fully licensed driver, just without the piece of plastic to prove it, so I doubt the Gardai would say anything.

Why havent you applied yet? First thing I did the morning I got my test was want in to get the full license!

pajero12

djimi wrote: »

You mean if you have passed the test but havent gotten the full license yet? Not sure actually. By the letter of the law the answer is probably no, however you are technically a fully licensed driver, just without the piece of plastic to prove it, so I doubt the Gardai would say anything.

Why havent you applied yet? First thing I did the morning I got my test was want in to get the full license!

Waiting on a card with my P.P.S number on it, never had need for it before

JohnBoy26

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

1 year for me! (2009)



In my experience (I was stopped only twice at checkpoints in the 1 year I drove on a provisional). They either just wave you on if your discs are up to date, or will let you on with a "don't do it again"

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

If she's on the road she should already be at a stage where she can drive!

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Some of the worst driving I've seen on the road has been in single occupied learner cars.
Shocking that!

:rolleyes:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057079662

Its very expensive to learn to drive now compared to even a few years ago with mandatory lessons etc. I could drive long before I could get a licence so basically once I got my first provisional (well first car provisional I had a tractor licence at 16) I applied for the test straight drove alone 95% of the time for 6 months got two lessons and a quick pre-test the morning of the test and passed first time with almost no faults.

My parents have always maintained (and I agree) that the only way to learn how to handle yourself on the road is to get out there alone so they always encouraged me and my sisters to drive alone when on provisionals and I maintain thats why the three of us were so comfortable and confident in our tests, all easily passing first time.

Nowadays I'd have to fork out for 10 or 12 lessons or whatever it is, would be a total waste of money.

Funny thing though with all the driving I did alone in the 6 months on a provisional the first checkpoint I had to go through was on the way home after passing the test, which was the only day I ever had L plates up and had my mother in the car and had passed the test .

toyotaavensis

djimi wrote: »

You mean if you have passed the test but havent gotten the full license yet? Not sure actually. By the letter of the law the answer is probably no, however you are technically a fully licensed driver, just without the piece of plastic to prove it, so I doubt the Gardai would say anything.

Why havent you applied yet? First thing I did the morning I got my test was want in to get the full license!

Certificate of competency and a learners permit entitle you to drive unaccompanied.

Mycroft H

toyotaavensis wrote: »

Certificate of competency and a learners permit entitle you to drive unaccompanied.

No it doesn't. You still are in the possession of a learner permit and not a licence. However, it would want to be one cruel garda who charged you because of it.

No Pants

pajero12 wrote: »

Would there be any leniency for someone holding their learners permit and cert. of competency but haven't had the chance to apply yet.

I think technically it's not allowed, but common sense may prevail. Keep the certificate in the car with the learner permit and be prepared to offer both if asked. I would also refrain from using a motorway. Once you've applied, keep whatever receipt you receive from your application in the car.

toyotaavensis

No Pants wrote: »

I think technically it's not allowed, but common sense may prevail. Keep the certificate in the car with the learner permit and be prepared to offer both if asked. I would also refrain from using a motorway. Once you've applied, keep whatever receipt you receive from your application in the car.

You are not entitled to use a motorway but are entitled to drive unaccompanied with the certificate of competency.

Mycroft H

toyotaavensis wrote: »

You are not entitled to use a motorway but are entitled to drive unaccompanied with the certificate of competency.

Where does it say that?

Certificate of competency isn't a licence, its a piece of paper saying passed your test.

In short, technically your still a holder of a learner permit until you've the licence in hand and all that it entails (driving accompanied, not permitted on the motorway etc.)

Cleveland Hot Pocket

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057079662

:rolleyes: to you too
At that stage I was more than competent of driving alone.
I had practiced enough.

If I said some BMW drivers were idiots, following your logic that would mean I am calling myself an idiot too.

Speaking of idiots, the post you make above is a typical overreaction which fails on a logical basis.
Some of *group* =/= all of *group*

nd

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Yep - from Garda Checkpoints Munster page - I've only ever found them to be 100% accurate to be fair.

The Gardai were hardly going to announce it themselves were they?

It was being talked about on Limerick radio yesterday.

JohnBoy26

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

:rolleyes: to you too
At that stage I was more than competent of driving alone.
I had practiced enough.

your were not qualified to call yourself "competent" whilst driving on a provisional/learner permit though. Only a driving tester has that qualification.

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

If I said some BMW drivers were idiots, following your logic that would mean I am calling myself an idiot too.

It's a pot kettle situation. Your quick to call other un accompanied people bad drivers, but what's to say that you weren't just as bad in the same situation given that you had no one with experience/full license accompanying you to judge your driving.

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Speaking of idiots, the post you make above is a typical overreaction which fails on a logical basis.
Some of *group* =/= all of *group*

Overreaction? Im not overreacting. Im just pointing out a few home truths. It's a bit hypocritical to call "some" unaccompanied learners bad drivers when you went out unaccompanied yourself without any real experience.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

your were not qualified to call yourself "competent" whilst driving on a provisional/learner permit though. Only a driving tester has that qualification.

It's a pot kettle situation. Your quick to call other un accompanied people bad drivers, but what's to say that you weren't just as bad in the same situation given that you had no one with experience/full license accompanying you to judge your driving.


Overreaction? Im not overreacting. Im just pointing out a few home truths. It's a bit hypocritical to call "some" unaccompanied learners bad drivers when you went out unaccompanied yourself without any real experience.

Your were not? No I probably wasnt to be honest. You are right on that point but considering everyone does it anyway I figured I would take my chances. Turned out fine.

Not a pot kettle situation or "home truth".
I said some bad driving was found from learners. But shur we all know that anyway. I never said only learners drive badly, some of the worst driving on the road is from OAPs in micras that drive too slowly and cause others to crash.

No Pants

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

OAPs in micras that drive too slowly and cause others to crash.

Could you please elaborate on this a bit more? I fail to see how an OAP in a Micra causes anyone to crash.

corktina

some OAPs if they drove faster would cause more crashes... (the most important bit of that statement is the SOME)

Cleveland Hot Pocket

No Pants wrote: »

Could you please elaborate on this a bit more? I fail to see how an OAP in a Micra causes anyone to crash.

Driving too slowly, failing to keep up with traffic perhaps.

sean1141

No Pants wrote: »

Could you please elaborate on this a bit more? I fail to see how an OAP in a Micra causes anyone to crash.

`
They can cause some people to get into panic (for lack of a better word) behind them and try overtake in stupid places

djimi

sean1141 wrote: »

`
They can cause some people to get into panic (for lack of a better word) behind them and try overtake in stupid places

If someone overtakes dangerously then the only person to blame is that person. With the exception of where a car that is stopped/parked on a blind bend, nobody is ever forced to overtake dangerously.

sean1141

djimi wrote: »

If someone overtakes dangerously then the only person to blame is that person. With the exception of where a car that is stopped/parked on a blind bend, nobody is ever forced to overtake dangerously.

I never said they were to blame. I said they cause people to overtake them.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

djimi wrote: »

If someone overtakes dangerously then the only person to blame is that person. With the exception of where a car that is stopped/parked on a blind bend, nobody is ever forced to overtake dangerously.

So, someone overtakes an OAP dangerously and causes an accident crashing into a third person, the third person is not at fault and the accident would not have happened if the OAP was not on the road.

Therefore, please explain how the OAP slow driving does not directly corellate to the accident?