Rent prices

dar100

What the hell is happening with rent prices lately?? It is absolutely shocking how Landlords are getting away with this.

It is costing people on an adverage industrial wage, almost half their monthly income to rent a two bed apartment, more if you are looking at "nice" areas.

Whats the deal? Obviously supply demaned, but are we not creating another false bubble in the property market? How are people meant to get on in life when most of their income is going on renting a home?

Borderfox

dar100 wrote: »

What the hell is happening with rent prices lately?? It is absolutely shocking how Landlords are getting away with this.

It is costing people on an adverage industrial wage, almost half their monthly income to rent a two bed apartment, more if you are looking at "nice" areas.

Whats the deal? Obviously supply demaned, but are we not creating another false bubble in the property market? How are people meant to get on in life when most of their income is going on renting a home?

You answered your own question at the start of the last paragraph.

dar100

Borderfox wrote: »

You answered your own question at the start of the last paragraph.

I think there's a lot more to the supply-demand era we now find ourselfs in. Something very cynical happening at all levels of the hierarchy.

Their day will come, hopefully it's painful and extended for a prolonged period of time

Avns1s

dar100 wrote: »

I think there's a lot more to the supply-demand era we now find ourselfs in. Something very cynical happening at all levels of the hierarchy.

Their day will come, hopefully it's painful and extended for a prolonged period of time

What on earth are you on about? So it's a crime now for a landlord to charge what the market is prepared to pay for his or her property.

Methinks you need to go back to your economics class!!

Scortho

Rents will only rise if the market allows, likewise it will fall if the market demands.

I take it you weren't complaining when rents fell! :cool:

Wilberto

Avns1s wrote: »

What on earth are you on about? So it's a crime now for a landlord to charge what the market is prepared to pay for his or her property.

Methinks you need to go back to your economics class!!

Exactly!

However, I do agree that it is incredibly frustrating for people who are trying to move out but are essentially prevented from doing so due to the constantly increasing prices. But, there's not a lot that can be done unfortunately. The banks aren't lending out sufficient enough mortgages and as a result these people are being pushed to rent rather than buy.


It is increasingly depressing to be honest.

The only alternative to not spending half your income (at least) on rent is to rent shared accommodation, which may not be to everyone's tastes.

Grandpa Hassan

dar100 wrote: »

I think there's a lot more to the supply-demand era we now find ourselfs in. Something very cynical happening at all levels of the hierarchy.

Their day will come, hopefully it's painful and extended for a prolonged period of time

I rent out a flat. Doesn't cover the mortgage. But it's good to know I'm in the hierarchy!!

djimi

dar100 wrote: »

It is costing people on an adverage industrial wage, almost half their monthly income to rent a two bed apartment, more if you are looking at "nice" areas.

Im not sure where you are looking, but I live in a nice area, earn probably less than the average wage, and am paying nothing like half my wages on rent (and thats before you take into account there are two of us paying the rent).

ChRoMe

Scortho wrote: »

Rents will only rise if the market allows, likewise it will fall if the market demands.

I take it you weren't complaining when rents fell! :cool:

Ah bowing to the all powerful market forces, how wonderful they are, this free market liberalism has served us well so far hasn't it?

wirelessdude01

Another leftie rant about the property market. Seems to have been a glut of them on here over the past few weeks.

The_Conductor

ChRoMe wrote: »

Ah bowing to the all powerful market forces, how wonderful they are, this free market liberalism has served us well so far hasn't it?

Down with this sort of thing........ Ahhh, right Ted.

Santa Cruz

dar100 wrote: »

What the hell is happening with rent prices lately?? It is absolutely shocking how Landlords are getting away with this.

It is costing people on an adverage industrial wage, almost half their monthly income to rent a two bed apartment, more if you are looking at "nice" areas.

Whats the deal? Obviously supply demaned, but are we not creating another false bubble in the property market? How are people meant to get on in life when most of their income is going on renting a home?

Supply and demand. Renting is a business. No one except landlords were complaining when rets were reducing.

ChRoMe

The_Conductor wrote: »

Down with this sort of thing........ Ahhh, right Ted.

How odd to find people happy with the current state of affairs.

Zulu

ChRoMe wrote: »

Ah bowing to the all powerful market forces, how wonderful they are, this free market liberalism has served us well so far hasn't it?

Yeah you are right. I was burned by buying a 2 bed in 2005 which doesn't suit my needs now. Although I rent it out, I'm no fool! I won't succumb to the capitalist market farces; I won't bend to become one of the hierarchy. No sirree.

...so I've my flat rented at well below marked value - like 75% below. I like to help out the little guys. I don't mind that the massive gap between my mortgage, and the rental income is crippling my family. I don't care about the property tax, or the rental expenses.

No free market hierarchy will turn me into a fatcat. I'm no fool.

The_Conductor

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Another leftie rant about the property market. Seems to have been a glut of them on here over the past few weeks.

Have to agree 100%.
If you want a socialist state- fine- however you have to accept that someone has to pay for it.
France doesn't want to accept this simple fact- and has had its treasury ratings cut again this week- and is now being treated with extreme caution as the next possible EU casualty by Germany and our Nordic cousins.

Socialism is fine- providing you accept the proviso that someone has to pay for it- and in a small open economy- someone has to be happy to pay for it.

Set rights at too high a level vis-a-vis social obligations- as is the case in Ireland- and you have an active disincentive to work, sure why would you- you'd be nuts to, when the nanny state is willing to pick up the pieces when you walk away from your obligations- and there is no moral hazard. That is where we are at present- and the do-gooders, don't want the boat rocked.

Something has to give- and no-one has the guts to explain in plain language to the people that their rights and expectations- are simply Walter Mitty aspirations that are unachievable.

Scortho

ChRoMe wrote: »

Ah bowing to the all powerful market forces, how wonderful they are, this free market liberalism has served us well so far hasn't it?

What do you suggest?

Demand outstrips supply in certain areas, therefore prices go up. And likewise when supply outstrips demand prices go down. Sounds fair enough to me.

The_Conductor

ChRoMe wrote: »

How odd to find people happy with the current state of affairs.

They're not just happy- they are willing to fight to keep the current state of affairs- and the politicians don't have the balls to call a spade a spade.

ChRoMe

The_Conductor wrote: »

They're not just happy- they are willing to fight to keep the current state of affairs- and the politicians don't have the balls to call a spade a spade.

Indeed, spectacular displays of Stockholm syndrome are on display here, it would be amusing if it wasn't so sad.

ChRoMe

Scortho wrote: »

What do you suggest?

Demand outstrips supply in certain areas, therefore prices go up. And likewise when supply outstrips demand prices go down. Sounds fair enough to me.

More social housing would be a good start.

dar100

Avns1s wrote: »

What on earth are you on about? So it's a crime now for a landlord to charge what the market is prepared to pay for his or her property.

Methinks you need to go back to your economics class!!

Well you think wrongly, I'm not actually talking about individual Landlords.

Why are rents rising?? And why is there such a demand when there is many
thousands of free properties unoccupied in this Country?

These free, unoccupied and adequate homes are been kept from the open market in order to push up prices, fact. I'd imagine there is a clear economic rational for this cynical behaviour. Is this the type of unethical economic class you would have me go back to??

I have no issue with a Landlord charging market prices, I'm sure they have paid a lot for their property or have large mortgages and should be able to make a living.

What's not ok, is the fact that once again, the idiots and their cronies running this Country are creating another bubble.

wexie

The_Conductor wrote: »

They're not just happy- they are willing to fight to keep the current state of affairs- and the politicians don't have the balls to call a spade a spade.

Because the majority of our politicians (if not all) see it as a career rather than a calling. So when the difficult issues need to be tackled none of them are willing to commit career suicide and make the right decisions, instead they go for the decisions more palatable to the voter :mad: so they can stay on the gravy train.

wexie

dar100 wrote: »

Well you think wrongly, I'm not actually talking about individual Landlords.

Why are rents rising?? And why is there such a demand when there is many
thousands of free properties unoccupied in this Country?

These free, unoccupied and adequate homes are been kept from the open market in order to push up prices, fact. I'd imagine there is a clear economic rational for this cynical behaviour. Is this the type of unethical economic class you would have me go back to??

I have no issue with a Landlord charging market prices, I'm sure they have paid a lot for their property or have large mortgages and should be able to make a living.

What's not ok, is the fact that once again, the idiots and their cronies running this Country are creating another bubble.

I think you'll probably find that those free and unoccupied properties aren't in any areas where there are jobs and high housing demand.

100 empty properties in Longford won't really have much of an impact on the rental market in South Dublin.

dar100

Scortho wrote: »

Rents will only rise if the market allows, likewise it will fall if the market demands.

I take it you weren't complaining when rents fell! :cool:

I actually was, because just like buying a house, prices were inflated to begin with

cali_eire

To be fair while it is supply and demand (and I think everyone has the right to charge what they want for their property) it's another symptom of the very broken property market in Ireland. The rental market is hugely influenced by the fact the banks/government haven't dealt with the negative equity issue in any meaningful way. Until repossessions and real loan modifications happen in a significant way, the market isnt going to heal and function properly.

ChRoMe

cali_eire wrote: »

To be fair while it is supply and demand (and I think everyone has the right to charge what they want for their property) it's another symptom of the very broken property market in Ireland. The rental market is hugely influenced by the fact the banks/government haven't dealt with the negative equity issue in any meaningful way. Until repossessions and real loan modifications happen in a significant way, the market isnt going to heal and function properly.

Indeed, and when those repossessions happen we need social housing to put those people in. Rather than lining the pockets of private landlords with government money for rent.

dar100

wexie wrote: »

I think you'll probably find that those free and unoccupied properties aren't in any areas where there are jobs and high housing demand.

100 empty properties in Longford won't really have much of an impact on the rental market in South Dublin.

There are many free properties in Dublin.

Any free housing brought back onto the market, will effect prices.

ChRoMe

dar100 wrote: »

There are many free properties in Dublin.

Any free housing brought back onto the market, will effect prices.

The current asking prices suggest otherwise, what are you basing your assertion on?

wexie

dar100 wrote: »

There are many free properties in Dublin.

Any free housing brought back onto the market, will effect prices.

Are there really?

Finished, liveable properties?

I'd be surprised if there were very many. Perhaps some appartments here and there that nobody is buying but I doubt we're talking substantial numbers

Zulu

dar100 wrote: »

There are many free properties in Dublin.

Are you - and this is only a suggestion - perhaps making the mistake of considering unfinished properties, and "ghost estates" into your reckoning? Because if you are, you have a problem with your numbers. A big problem.

There are a lot of unfinished & unlivable properties, but they're pretty much useless, as they are unfinished, & unlivable in.

wirelessdude01

dar100 wrote: »

There are many free properties in Dublin.

What locations?

Names of apartment blocks and/or housing estates that are fully completed and liveable that aren't currently occupied.

wexie

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

What locations?

Names of apartment blocks and/or housing estates that are fully completed and liveable that aren't currently occupied.

I wouldn't even be too confident there are many unfinished ones left in Dublin (or north Wicklow for that matter)

wirelessdude01

wexie wrote: »

I wouldn't even be too confident there are many unfinished ones left in Dublin (or north Wicklow for that matter)

Are those shells around Beacon Quarter in Sandyford Ind Est still there?

EricPraline

wexie wrote: »

I wouldn't even be too confident there are many unfinished ones left in Dublin (or north Wicklow for that matter)

Have you walked through Sandyford or the North Docklands (Point Village) recently? Work has only restarted recently on some of the unfinished sites in the former, so they won't come on the market for several years. And large parts of the latter still resemble a wasteland. NAMA is apparently due to start working on some of the vacant or unfinished properties in the Docklands in the next 2 years, but again they won't come on the market for years.

Of course in both cases, the properties in question are likely to be small 1-2 bed apartments as planned during the boom. They'll do nothing to address the actual demand for 3-4 bed family houses.

lima

Isn't it funny that some landlords want socialism in terms of debt forgiveness and limiting repossessions for their bad BTL decisions.

Whilst at the same time pursuing capitalism in terms of raising rents to 'market value' because of the lack of stock on the market.

Burn in hell, f*cking Ireland.

ChRoMe

lima wrote: »

Burn in hell, f*cking Ireland.

FWIW Ireland doesn't have the monopoly on this behaviour.

Zulu

Theres half an estate at the back of clare hall moving towards portmarnock - northern cross I think. I'd say a good 50 unfinished houses. ...and of course that apartment block.

Barely Hedged

lima wrote: »

Isn't it funny that some landlords want socialism in terms of debt forgiveness and limiting repossessions for their bad BTL decisions.

Whilst at the same time pursuing capitalism in terms of raising rents to 'market value' because of the lack of stock on the market.

Burn in hell, f*cking Ireland.

What landlords exactly?

ChRoMe

Barely Hedged wrote: »

What landlords exactly?

Basically anybody in negative equity that is currently renting their property are market rates.

Barely Hedged

ChRoMe wrote: »

Basically anybody in negative equity that is currently renting their property are market rates.

Where have they said that exactly? Anecdotally or do they have a representative body stating this point?

ChRoMe

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Where have they said that exactly? Anecdotally or do they have a representative body stating this point?

They don't have to say it, the behavior demonstrates it.

irritablebaz

renting is just putting your money into someone else's pocket. i just rented a room in a shared house after uni until i had enough saved for a good deposit on my first flat.

when i bought my house i rented my flat out to pay that mortgage off that and got a new mortgage the house.

so, no matter where the area is as long as it's close enough to where you earn your money my advice is to rent as cheaply as possible and get a deposit for your own place.

Barely Hedged

ChRoMe wrote: »

They don't have to say it, the behavior demonstrates it.

What behaviour exactly? Anecdotal or some incident(s) in particular that have demonstrated this point?

wirelessdude01

Barely Hedged wrote: »

What behaviour exactly? Anecdotal or some incident(s) in particular that have demonstrated this point?

Some rubbish spouted in the media perhaps is the base for the posters opinion?

Grandpa Hassan

ChRoMe wrote: »

Basically anybody in negative equity that is currently renting their property are market rates.

I guess that's me then. And I have never looked for any debt forgiveness or supported limited reposessions.

You are talking out of your behind

Barely Hedged

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Some rubbish spouted in the media perhaps is the base for the posters opinion?

Thats what im thinking, hence my questions for specific examples.

The media recently seems to be leaning towards conditioning people with inaccurate, sometimes wildly, headlines and stories more so than offering specific examples and then deducing a logical argument from them.

It is the responsibility of the reader to question whether there is any merit to the stories that are being pushed in front of them.

Not a big conspiracy theory, just what seems to be going on

ChRoMe

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Thats what im thinking, hence my questions for specific examples.

The media recently seems to be leaning towards conditioning people with inaccurate, sometimes wildly, headlines and stories more so than offering specific examples and then deducing a logical argument from them.

It is the responsibility of the reader to question whether there is any merit to the stories that are being pushed in front of them.

Not a big conspiracy theory, just what seems to be going on

Can you provide specific evidence that they are not?

Who said anything about the media, this started from a post here. Which seemed a perfectly reasonable logical deduction.

There are people looking for debt forgiveness, there are people renting their negative equity homes are market rates, its completely reasonable to assume that there is an intersection here, no matter what size

Zulu

ChRoMe wrote: »

They don't have to say it, the behavior demonstrates it.

Sigh. :rolleyes: I'm a LL in negative equity. Explain how my behavior demonstrates it. Go on.

<You're talking out of your arse>

Grandpa Hassan

ChRoMe wrote: »

Can you provide specific evidence that they are not?

Who said anything about the media, this started from a post here. Which seemed a perfectly reasonable logical deduction.

There are people looking for debt forgiveness, there are people renting their negative equity homes are market rates, its completely reasonable to assume that there is an intersection here, no matter what size

Geez, you just can't argue with that kind of logic!

What's your point? That all people renting their property at market rates are looking for debt forgiveness?

lima

Barely Hedged wrote: »

Thats what im thinking, hence my questions for specific examples.

The media recently seems to be leaning towards conditioning people with inaccurate, sometimes wildly, headlines and stories more so than offering specific examples and then deducing a logical argument from them.

It is the responsibility of the reader to question whether there is any merit to the stories that are being pushed in front of them.

Not a big conspiracy theory, just what seems to be going on

It was mentioned via this post:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=87434110&postcount=1749

ChRoMe

Zulu wrote: »

Sigh. :rolleyes: I'm a LL in negative equity. Explain how my behavior demonstrates it. Go on.

<You're talking out of your arse>

Being in negative equity doesn't immediately qualify you for the situation that is being described. Looking for debt forgiveness and renting at market rates does.

Please try to keep up.

wirelessdude01

ChRoMe wrote: »

Can you provide specific evidence that they are not?

Who said anything about the media, this started from a post here. Which seemed a perfectly reasonable logical deduction.

There are people looking for debt forgiveness, there are people renting their negative equity homes are market rates, its completely reasonable to assume that there is an intersection here, no matter what size

You assume that there is.