Putting Stroke - Arc or Straight?

Wombatman

Putting Stroke - Arc or Straight?

SnowDrifts

Stands over ball thinking "straight back and straight through" - Hits the usual banana arc which results with the ball going straight into the middle of the cup

spacecoyote

always aiming to be straight back & through, occasionally get a slight in to out arc

Much easier to hit a draw with the putter

GreeBo

Never think about it.
I also never think about how to throw a ball or how to pick something out of my eye.

If you are thinking about this stuff on the course you are totally in your own way IMO.

Arsenium

Never thought about it much either till one evening I was putting on a green that had been pole forked. The lovely straight lines of holes allowed me see that my putter went back in a slight arc. The further back it went, the more the arc.

As an aside, I didnt realise there was so much science to it till I saw a guy on a putting green with a contraption one day. I could read from it, it had a label "Momentus Golf". Did a bit of goggling on it and it was a device to promote the putter coming back in a slight arc and then putting straight through.

"Inside down the line" apparently.

Wombatman

GreeBo wrote: »

Never think about it.
I also never think about how to throw a ball or how to pick something out of my eye.

If you are thinking about this stuff on the course you are totally in your own way IMO.

You don't need to think about it on the course but to have analysed it beforehand is a real boon. To know the detailed mechanics of what you are trying to achieve allows you to adjust to different conditions but more importantly rinse and repeat under pressure.

Kicker Johnny Wilkinson describes the process well and puts a lot of thought into the mechanics of kicking.

'I'm going to concentrate on this' - perhaps connecting with the right part of the ball - 'and if I get this right and another part right, then the end result will take care of itself.' This is where 'keys' play a crucial part. There are many I use and for each week it will be a different key I need the most. One that works a lot for me is to think that I need to tense my foot, that I need a really hard foot to dominate the ball. I may be kicking with a hard foot anyway, but by really thinking about it my body becomes aggressive and deliberate and everything really falls into place. At other times, it might be what my shoulders do, depending on which foot I'm kicking with - where are they facing, what should I adjust to make things right? Or it could be weight shift: maybe where I am placing my foot as I strike the ball.

If Martin Johnson tells me to have a go at goal, then immediately I separate myself from the team and I'm now in my routine. Whether we're two points down, or we need this kick to pull eight points ahead, I put the tee down, look at the posts and eventually, mentally, return to the training ground where I've done this thousands and thousands of times. That's what gives me confidence - the knowledge that I've done this before. And also I know that what happens once the ball has left your foot is out of your control. So I drop back, take a few steps to the side, focus on the posts, pick everything out, hit the ball and then that's it.

The best put a lot of thought into throwing a ball btw.

The biomechanics of pitching have been studied extensively. The phases of throwing include windup, early cocking, late cocking, early acceleration, late acceleration, deceleration, and follow-through.

Pitchers throw a variety of pitches, each of which has a slightly different velocity, trajectory, movement, hand position, wrist position and/or arm angle. These variations are introduced to confuse the batter in various ways, and ultimately aid the defensive team in getting the batter or baserunners out. To obtain variety, and therefore enhance defensive baseball strategy, the pitcher manipulates the grip on the ball at the point of release. Variations in the grip cause the seams to "catch" the air differently, thereby changing the trajectory of the ball, making it harder for the batter to hit.

To take it to the next level maybe you should start thinking more........ or maybe kicker Jonny Wilkinson became world class just by stepping up there and giving it a good whack.

GreeBo

Wombatman wrote: »

'I'm going to concentrate on this' - perhaps connecting with the right part of the ball - 'and if I get this right and another part right, then the end result will take care of itself.' This is where 'keys' play a crucial part. There are many I use and for each week it will be a different key I need the most. One that works a lot for me is to think that I need to tense my foot, that I need a really hard foot to dominate the ball. I may be kicking with a hard foot anyway, but by really thinking about it my body becomes aggressive and deliberate and everything really falls into place. At other times, it might be what my shoulders do, depending on which foot I'm kicking with - where are they facing, what should I adjust to make things right? Or it could be weight shift: maybe where I am placing my foot as I strike the ball.

If Martin Johnson tells me to have a go at goal, then immediately I separate myself from the team and I'm now in my routine. Whether we're two points down, or we need this kick to pull eight points ahead, I put the tee down, look at the posts and eventually, mentally, return to the training ground where I've done this thousands and thousands of times. That's what gives me confidence - the knowledge that I've done this before. And also I know that what happens once the ball has left your foot is out of your control. So I drop back, take a few steps to the side, focus on the posts, pick everything out, hit the ball and then that's it.
The best put a lot of thought into throwing a ball btw.

Quote:
The biomechanics of pitching have been studied extensively. The phases of throwing include windup, early cocking, late cocking, early acceleration, late acceleration, deceleration, and follow-through.

Pitchers throw a variety of pitches, each of which has a slightly different velocity, trajectory, movement, hand position, wrist position and/or arm angle. These variations are introduced to confuse the batter in various ways, and ultimately aid the defensive team in getting the batter or baserunners out. To obtain variety, and therefore enhance defensive baseball strategy, the pitcher manipulates the grip on the ball at the point of release. Variations in the grip cause the seams to "catch" the air differently, thereby changing the trajectory of the ball, making it harder for the batter to hit.

Nothing in those quotes tells me they are thinking technically about biomechanical movements?
If anything its the opposite, they are thinking about the result.
Same as putting imo.

I can stand here and launch 10 stress balls into the bin 10 feet away almost without thinking. Get me thinking about mechanically how to do it and I probably wont make one.

realgolfgeek

GreeBo wrote: »

Nothing in those quotes tells me they are thinking technically about biomechanical movements?
If anything its the opposite, they are thinking about the result.
Same as putting imo.

I can stand here and launch 10 stress balls into the bin 10 feet away almost without thinking. Get me thinking about mechanically how to do it and I probably wont make one.

So how do you improve ?

realgolfgeek

I'd also be a little suspicious of 55% saying they have a straight method of putting.

Anything where you have to take the club head back more than 9 inches to a foot, I believe the majority would have an arc towards the end of the back swing.

Wombatman

GreeBo wrote: »

Nothing in those quotes tells me they are thinking technically about biomechanical movements?If anything its the opposite, they are thinking about the result.
Same as putting imo.

I can stand here and launch 10 stress balls into the bin 10 feet away almost without thinking. Get me thinking about mechanically how to do it and I probably wont make one.

What? No thinking technically about biomechanical movements?????

One example is highlighted below......... couldn't be clearer really. Did you even read the post?

'I'm going to concentrate on this' - perhaps connecting with the right part of the ball - 'and if I get this right and another part right, then the end result will take care of itself.' This is where 'keys' play a crucial part. There are many I use and for each week it will be a different key I need the most. One that works a lot for me is to think that I need to tense my foot, that I need a really hard foot to dominate the ball. I may be kicking with a hard foot anyway, but by really thinking about it my body becomes aggressive and deliberate and everything really falls into place. At other times, it might be what my shoulders do, depending on which foot I'm kicking with - where are they facing, what should I adjust to make things right? Or it could be weight shift: maybe where I am placing my foot as I strike the ball.

If Martin Johnson tells me to have a go at goal, then immediately I separate myself from the team and I'm now in my routine. Whether we're two points down, or we need this kick to pull eight points ahead, I put the tee down, look at the posts and eventually, mentally, return to the training ground where I've done this thousands and thousands of times. That's what gives me confidence - the knowledge that I've done this before. And also I know that what happens once the ball has left your foot is out of your control. So I drop back, take a few steps to the side, focus on the posts, pick everything out, hit the ball and then that's it.

Dealerz

GreeBo wrote: »

Never think about it.
I also never think about how to throw a ball or how to pick something out of my eye.

If you are thinking about this stuff on the course you are totally in your own way IMO.

I am completely in my own way on the greens at the minute- last Saturday had my best day in a long time tee to green ruined by being completely mechanical on the greens- what's your routine on the green- "read it and hit"?

Arsenium

I've been reading Bob Rotellas book recently, Putting out of your mind.

He advocates, at the moment of truth look at the hole, look back at the ball and let the putt go. Anyone who pauses when they look back at the ball are trying to force themselves to go straight back and through, or put a nice roll on the ball etc. And this is getting in your own way.

GreeBo

Wombatman wrote: »

What? No thinking technically about biomechanical movements?????

One example is highlighted below......... couldn't be clearer really. Did you even read the post?

Wilkinson stands over the ball, imagines his foot is a block of concrete and tries to hit an old woman in the crowd reading her newspaper behind the middle of the goal posts.

"Tense foot" is not biomechanical.
He isnt thinking about maximally pronating his ankle or drawing his foot back just inside of straight.

GreeBo

Dealerz wrote: »

I am completely in my own way on the greens at the minute- last Saturday had my best day in a long time tee to green ruined by being completely mechanical on the greens- what's your routine on the green- "read it and hit"?

Arsenium wrote: »

I've been reading Bob Rotellas book recently, Putting out of your mind.

He advocates, at the moment of truth look at the hole, look back at the ball and let the putt go. Anyone who pauses when they look back at the ball are trying to force themselves to go straight back and through, or put a nice roll on the ball etc. And this is getting in your own way.

I'm figuring out the local low point of the green while approaching the putt and waiting for my partners to play.
Decide on what line my straight putt is and how far short or beyond my virtual target is, stand over it and hit it there as if I am throwing it there with my hand.

No practice swings etc. I might crouch down behind it if its a subtle break but thats about it.

realgolfgeek

Arsenium wrote: »

I've been reading Bob Rotellas book recently, Putting out of your mind.

He advocates, at the moment of truth look at the hole, look back at the ball and let the putt go. Anyone who pauses when they look back at the ball are trying to force themselves to go straight back and through, or put a nice roll on the ball etc. And this is getting in your own way.

I totally get this, however, I think it's also key to know how you putt to some technical extent.
If you don't really know how you putt, it's pretty darn difficult to improve.

FixdePitchmark

A mess - was straight then a pro was showing me arc. Then went arc, then went arc for long , straight for short, then forgot what my putting stroke is.

A mess - and working on fixing -
very rare to get under 30 putts a 3 putt most rounds, if not 2.

I could write a book on how to ruin your putting.

realgolfgeek

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I could write a book on how to ruin your putting.

best seller Delboy, best seller

John Divney

Arc, all shoulders. no hands.

realgolfgeek

John Divney wrote: »

Arc, all shoulders. no hands.

this is the key,
a natural arc will be formed when using the shoulders.

sydneybound

I'm a straight as a dye putter however a very good golf coach thought me to arch my putting stroke which I never did!

Arsenium

realgolfgeek wrote: »

I totally get this, however, I think it's also key to know how you putt to some technical extent.
If you don't really know how you putt, it's pretty darn difficult to improve.

realgolfgeek wrote: »

I totally get this, however, I think it's also key to know how you putt to some technical extent.
If you don't really know how you putt, it's pretty darn difficult to improve.

I get your point. Obviously when putting for real it's critical to be out of your own way. Thinking about your stroke and how the ball rolls and arcs and even psychologists as you are making a putt is all going to increase the likelihood of you missing your putt.

But everyone has a putting stroke type, whether they like it or not. Which I guess is the point of this thread and the poll :-)

When I realised I had an arc in my putting stroke, then out of interest I started to read articles on it. And that was when I realised all the science there was into it. It seems for an arc'ed swing the best putter type is a toe weighted putter. Then I realised my putter was face balanced....so obviously that was why I was missing so many putts hahaha!!

Eventually I ended up with Dr. Bob's book, convincing myself to get all that stuff out of my head..Agghh!

bobwilliams

the 16 people that reckon they go straight back and through need to get out on the course with their video camera and record some putts.
You may think you're going straight and if that works for you that's all that matters but the reality is you will almost defo have some sort of arc.

SnowDrifts

bobwilliams wrote: »

the 16 people that reckon they go straight back and through need to get out on the course with their video camera and record some putts.
You may think you're going straight and if that works for you that's all that matters but the reality is you will almost defo have some sort of arc.

Agree ... or place a straight line of tees just slightly wider than the putter like this...

- - - - - - - - - -

- - - - - - - - - - -

now see how straight back and through you are

big_drive

I used the Ping cradle and app to find out my stroke. It was arc and almost into strong arc category.
Ping recommends a putter style based on stroke

FixdePitchmark

big_drive wrote: »

I used the Ping cradle and app to find out my stroke. It was arc and almost into strong arc category.
Ping recommends a putter style based on stroke

Does it work - did you get advised putter , did you improve ?

neckedit

the length of the putter and more importantly eye position over the Ball,Hosel, or inside the hosel will also determine the type of strock, With the player over the ball taking it straight back and through, therefor suiting a face balanced style etc.

TheDoc

I put alot of work into my putting last year that paid of this year. Getting alot of compliments and its turned into me slashing my handicapp, and just being devastating on the greens. It was a simple process that required thought, practice and practice.

There is some , imo, skewering opinions here that to be fair are both right, but as they are here, incorrect

We have some advocates of actually thinking about the process and execution.
We have advocates of just hitting the putt and not thinking about it.

Both are required, together. If you just never put thought into your putt, and just go hit it, I'm sorry your never going to be a good putter, and I don't for one second believe anyone that says they are, and claims to have never given thought to how they putt.

At the same time, I wouldn't believe anyone who says they are constantly running over the process and stroke in their head as they take the putt. The main thing is combining the two to do the following.


Take some time out and work on your putting stroke. Do whats comfortable. There is no "correct" putting stroke. There is good foundations to built off, but my opinion is that there is a critical part of the stroke. It's probably being written in books etc.m but it's just what I focused on after thinking about my putting stroke.

The inch on takewaway, the impact, the inch follow through. My opinion was I could do what I ****ing like outside of this, but if I get this spot on, I'll get the ball rolling on the line I've picked.


Consistent practice practice practice, and it now feels natural. I don't fidget, think, doubt myself or anything. I read the line, pick the line, judge the pace, take a practice to gauge the feel for pace, then putt. And it's served me well.

Once you have the face square on impact, and you've that little bit of follow through to help with roll, you can just about do what you like with your putter outside of that (It just so happens, a nice natural movement is an arc, or straight)


In terms of the thread itself, I wasn't sure what I did. I thought and felt like I was doing a straight putt, but my Da commented that on occasions I can arc. But like I said, I'm not really caring, I'm just focused on the impact. I don't move a thing during the stroke, bar my shoulders. If you can get that nailed down first your on the right track. Don't move your head, or your hands or most importantly your wrists. Just rock it, and then you'll be rollin

FixdePitchmark

Just to show how things you hear can be so different - and putting has got it's individual traits. Look at Luke Donald's head move before and during impact.

Dtoffee

I have had all sorts of issues, lost all confidence and the turning point was when a friend lent me his ping anser and kept telling me to stand tall. He went to all lenghts to sort me out and to no avail. I eventually decided to stop listening to all this advice and go out and look for a putter that suited my stroke ie. low hands and the toe pointing up.

I found a callaway aston and immediately felt comfortable. From that I decided that all this mumbo jumbo about tempo/posture/stroke was wrecking my head and that I would use a simpler method.

All I do is look at the putt .... decide on where I want hit the ball and at what pace .... then its routine : put the putter down behind the ball, look at the hole, look at the ball and pull the trigger. No bull, ball in the hole is all that matters. BELIEVE

ForeRight

This thread is like Chinese to me.

Does anybody else just have a couple of looks at the hole to get a distance feel then just hit it?

It's pretty easy to tell if it's uphill, downhill, left to right or right to left after one luck at a putt so it's only a matter of trying to get distance control. Anything over 20foot and I'm just picturing the hole as a bucket trying to get the ball dead within a couple of feet. If it drops it drops.

My head would burst if I started thinking about arcs and the likes.

Arsenium

ForeRight wrote: »

This thread is like Chinese to me.

Anything over 20foot and I'm just picturing the hole as a bucket trying to get the ball dead within a couple of feet. If it drops it drops.

.

Another one of Dr. Bob's golden rules. Never use the dustbin lid approach. If you do you are only increasing your margin for error. Putt to make every putt.

I'm only quoting the book here.....if I was a good putter I wouldnt need to buy it in the first place !!

Wombatman

ForeRight wrote: »

This thread is like Chinese to me.

Does anybody else just have a couple of looks at the hole to get a distance feel then just hit it?

It's pretty easy to tell if it's uphill, downhill, left to right or right to left after one luck at a putt so it's only a matter of trying to get distance control. Anything over 20foot and I'm just picturing the hole as a bucket trying to get the ball dead within a couple of feet. If it drops it drops.

My head would burst if I started thinking about arcs and the likes.

The first step toward masterful putting is know your stroke

http://blogs.golf.com/top100/2011/04/the-first-step-toward-masterful-putting-is-know-your-stroke.html#ixzz2kiS3j8jU

ForeRight

Arsenium wrote: »

Another one of Dr. Bob's golden rules. Never use the dustbin lid approach. If you do you are only increasing your margin for error. Putt to make every putt.

I'm only quoting the book here.....if I was a good putter I wouldnt need to buy it in the first place !!

I do putt to make it.

To make it into the dustbin

ShivasIrons

I'm curious most here seem to say they have a straight back and through stroke, over 50% on the poll, yet in putting the golfer stands to the ball at an angle, the putter lies at an angle.

Will this not lead the putter to naturally arc in its swing? How is a straight putting stroke achieved?

GreeBo

ShivasIrons wrote: »

I'm curious most here seem to say they have a straight back and through stroke, over 50% on the poll, yet in putting the golfer stands to the ball at an angle, the putter lies at an angle.

Will this not lead the putter to naturally arc in its swing? How is a straight putting stroke achieved?

Put the reverse of the arc in your body.
i.e. arms move away from the body, towards the ball on they way back and through.

ShivasIrons

GreeBo wrote: »

Put the reverse of the arc in your body.
i.e. arms move away from the body, towards the ball on they way back and through.

This seems like a manipulation which would require more timing and be less reliable, no?

It looks like all the best putters in the world put with an arc stroke.

GreeBo

ShivasIrons wrote: »

This seems like a manipulation which would require more timing and be less reliable, no?

It looks like all the best putters in the world put with an arc stroke.

Well its all manipulation, your arms dont go anywhere without you moving them. It might seem to be easier to move them naturally, but whats naturally? My arms/shoulders have a huge range of motion.
I would actually think its easier to manipulate the putter, that you can see, in a straight line, compared to my arms/shoulders which I cannot see.

ShivasIrons

GreeBo wrote: »

Well its all manipulation, your arms dont go anywhere without you moving them. It might seem to be easier to move them naturally, but whats naturally? My arms/shoulders have a huge range of motion.
I would actually think its easier to manipulate the putter, that you can see, in a straight line, compared to my arms/shoulders which I cannot see.

So why do most Tour players putt with an arc?

Russman

ShivasIrons wrote: »

So why do most Tour players putt with an arc?

I don't think any of them intentionally putt with or without an arc, its just the way it happens for them.
Almost all the time, when you're standing "side on" to the ball, the club will work inside going back and through (not just with the putter).

GreeBo

Russman wrote: »

I don't think any of them intentionally putt with or without an arc, its just the way it happens for them.
Almost all the time, when you're standing "side on" to the ball, the club will work inside going back and through (not just with the putter).

Bingo.