daily driver - which one?

OneCheque

Lads,

Having owned a few german classic cars (got the bug!), I drive modern Seat daily.

Still, I keep thinking about getting a 30y car for a daily driver. I have a few possible candidates (listed below).

Could I ask for your opinion? I'd mostly appreciate comments from you guys who drove these particular cars daily.

Conditions:
-I've two young kids so rear seats (for child seats) are needed and will be used - just in case if you wanted to suggest sth wild
-The car must be 30y+ so I can avail of classic tax
-Preferably manual gearbox

Candidates:
1). Merc w126 280SE (here I would accept auto)
2). Merc w201 190
3). BMW e30 (preferably 6 pots engine)
4). Porsche 944

Best regards for all classic car fanatics!

iverjohnston

Hate to keep banging on about the W124, but what about a W124?

macplaxton

Volvo 200 series. Belts will already be in the back... Boxy, but good.

hairypigeon

I'm having the same thought

i'm thinking saab 900 turbo

SEC merc 560 amg

or a 240z

all completely different but for you with the requirement of the back seats the sec would be awesome it's like a german muscle car

OneCheque

Folks,

Over 30y please! :rolleyes:

w124 is lovely but it's another 2-3 years, I guess...

I'd rather stay away from swedish cars - again, 900 Turbo would be great but isn't it too young, still?

regarding w126 SEC - I'd rather have 4 doors SE/SEL. I don't think you could get 280 SEC? they were all V8 (now, there's nothing wrong with old V8 - don't get me wrong, I do love them )

Do-more

There's a lovely Renault 11 on done deal at the moment....

kevin65

A BMW 318is. As much fun as a 325i and alot easier on the pocket as a daily driver.

quenching

OneCheque wrote: »

Folks,

Over 30y please! :rolleyes:

w124 is lovely but it's another 2-3 years, I guess...

I'd rather stay away from swedish cars - again, 900 Turbo would be great but isn't it too young, still?

regarding w126 SEC - I'd rather have 4 doors SE/SEL. I don't think you could get 280 SEC? they were all V8 (now, there's nothing wrong with old V8 - don't get me wrong, I do love them )

You'll have to wait a bit for a W201 too, if you want a right hand drive one, first ones only came out towards the end of 1984, you'll also struggle to find a very early one. I have a Nov '84 right hand drive one and use it daily during the winter, often with 2 child seats in the back. No airbags or ABS though if that's a concern.

911s

I think if people keep posting on here about getting a 30+ year old 'classic' for daily use, to try and avoid paying regular car tax, somebody from the revenue may cop on and get rid of this perk, which was introduced to help people who keep classic cars as a hobby.

swarlb

911s wrote: »

I think if people keep posting on here about getting a 30+ year old 'classic' for daily use, to try and avoid paying regular car tax, somebody from the revenue may cop on and get rid of this perk, which was introduced to help people who keep classic cars as a hobby.

The reality is, very, very, very few people use 30(or older) year old cars as daily drivers. They endlessly talk about it, but very few actually do it.
I ran a Volvo Amazon from 1986 till 2009. A 1968 car, it started out as a normally taxed car till it hit 30. A while it was enjoyable, it was a pleasure to get into a 'modern'.

kdevitt

kevin65 wrote: »

A BMW 318is. As much fun as a 325i and alot easier on the pocket as a daily driver.

They're not available on vintage tax - choice up to 2015 will be 316, 318, 320i or 323i.

OneCheque

Yeah, I agree with Swarlb.
I used to drive older cars more often but every one had some issues- non starting, water leaks, smelly interior... It's ok summer time when you're single but in winter, when you need to take kids to creche and go to work straight on... It's not cool anymore.
Then you appreciate modern yet boring cars.

I don't mind closing the topic if it creates any risk in future state budgets. - up to admins.

I could reopen it with no mention of the age - still, I'd have your opinion on driving the cars listed by me,please.

iverjohnston

OneCheque, was having a brainstorm last night when I posted, ment the W123!

kdevitt

I have an 83 E30 323i - its gets as much use as my E46 M3 so its essentially a daily, but I do small milage in reality. Its been exceptionally reliable to date - easy to work on, and parts can be had for buttons. That said - I had the car totally overhauled in terms of suspension components, exhaust etc - and it only has 52k on the clock to start with.

Went straight through the NCT first time (more or less - two parking light bulbs needed replacement). I'm able to handle a lot of the smaller things which can go wrong - locking solenoids, blower fans etc, and any mechanic can handle the heavier stuff - they're a basic car. Only problem I had recently was leaving the lights on while I was in work for the day - the battery doesn't like that!

83 E30's are few and far between though!

OneCheque

iverjohnston wrote: »

OneCheque, was having a brainstorm last night when I posted, ment the W123!

Ah- i don't really fancy w123, unfortunately. It makes me think of a taxi, instantly. I've seen too many of them taxis in the 90s.

Kdevitt- do you have a manual or auto? What sort of fuel economy are you getting?

kdevitt

OneCheque wrote: »

Kdevitt- do you have a manual or auto? What sort of fuel economy are you getting?

Its an auto - but will be sticking a manual box in it. I did have the auto box serviced though, and its pretty smooth - if not overly eager to transfer what the engine is doing to the rear wheels! Not totally sure on MPG - unfortunately the early 323i had a larger tank than later cars, and I've fitted later clocks into it - so my fuel guage is inaccurate to say the least. Need to refit the tank level guage from the original clocks back in.

Being honest - the M3 seems easier on petrol, although even that returned 31MPG on a trip down to Wexford and back last week. I reckon its low to mid 20's though. The auto box definitely doesn't help with economy, neither does the ancient k-jetronic fuel injection. Should see an improvement once the manual box is in.

Pretty surreal experience driving it on occasion though - have people stopping to wave, thumbs up etc - although they might be mistaking me for George Clooney or something.

Dades

What about a Merc 107 SLC?

Loads or room in the back and plenty of models old enough. Fairly bulletproof too, if you can find a solid one.

OneCheque

The minter above with 5 litre engine... I could do with LHD

450 slc auto returns some 15 mpg. It's fine for occasional driving, or course. I might end up doing it, though.

Tzar Chasm

what bout a vw

there's a yellow pass at doing the rounds amongst the carshufflers on done deal, or there's many a golf out there

Red Kev

W123 Estate

BMW e28 (brilliant car, had 3 in the past, as turbo diesel it does near 50 MPG on long runs!)
BMW e12
BMW e21, e23
VW Golf Cabrio

Merc w114/115, especially the long version, a classier people carrier you won't find. Or a W123 long version.

OneCheque

I might consider older BMW, I guess. I used to have an e23 and it was a remarkable piece of engineering, though steering was kind of woody. No feedback from the road on the steering wheel.

On my original list I just considered slightly newer generations of cars.

How about w126 and 944 with square dash? Anyone driving them regularly?

kevin65

kdevitt wrote: »

They're not available on vintage tax - choice up to 2015 will be 316, 318, 320i or 323i.

I know that, duh! I thought the question was about a classic as a daily drive. A BMW M3 was listed in the original post.

swarlb

Already the thread has gone haywire, with suggestions way beyond the original question. And as usual, the 'daydream drives' of fantastical high powered German autos have been suggested.
It is nigh on impossible to find a reasonably priced, easily maintained, reliable, non rust prone 30 year old car (just for tax) or 34 year old car (to avoid the dreaded NCT !!!!).
If this were the case, everybody would be doing it.
Classic cars as a hobby, modern cars for everyday.

Kenny Logins

swarlb wrote: »

Already the thread has gone haywire, with suggestions way beyond the original question. And as usual, the 'daydream drives' of fantastical high powered German autos have been suggested.
It is nigh on impossible to find a reasonably priced, easily maintained, reliable, non rust prone 30 year old car (just for tax) or 34 year old car (to avoid the dreaded NCT !!!!).
If this were the case, everybody would be doing it.
Classic cars as a hobby, modern cars for everyday.

I think it is possible, but I think the savings made on tax tends to go on maintenance. This, for me, is how I combined my hobby with my daily driver.

kevin65

Kenny Logins wrote: »

I think it is possible, but I think the savings made on tax tends to go on maintenance. This, for me, is how I combined my hobby with my daily driver.

Agree. I think the tax saving would be consumed by the maintenance costs. Thats where the likes of a 20-25 year old classic would be a good comprise.

daz16

http://cars.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/mercedes-190e-2-0-american-spec/5974311

I know its not over 30 yers old as requsted but a beautiful car none the less. Cheap to run and really an ideal classic for daily use with a family.

OneCheque

How could it be american spec with RHD?

Dades

Kenny Logins wrote: »

I think it is possible, but I think the savings made on tax tends to go on maintenance. This, for me, is how I combined my hobby with my daily driver.

I've spent far more keeping my 06 Passat on the road than I've ever spent on my 30 year old car. Accordingly I'm less inclined to buy into this!

To be fair, a lot of it boils down to luck. You've more chance of being unlucky with a classic you buy than you have being lucky with a modern.

Kenny Logins

Dades wrote: »

I've spent far more keeping my 06 Passat on the road than I've ever spent on my 30 year old car. Accordingly I'm less inclined to buy into this!

To be fair, a lot of it boils down to luck. You've more chance of being unlucky with a classic you buy than you have being lucky with a modern.

You could be just unlucky with your Passat. My old Golf would go for months with nothing but diesel.

My point was that running a classic shouldn't be considered purely for the economic aspect, which doesn't always add up.

OneCheque

I love driving old cars, simply speaking. Like most of us, I guess.

Otherwise, I wouldn't even consider swapping my Seat for anything older - simply I won't get better economy and performance from any of these. I'm fully aware of it.

On the other hand, i don't fancy getting a 25y old car if you can get (almost) the same model 5y older, both equally enjoyable. For me economic aspect is substantial.

Not to mention my lady wife, of course;) -it's just easier to justify another
purchase...

dcollins

A 924 won't have the room in the back you want i recon, or at least after fitting seat belts it could be finnicky to get the kids in.
Best of luck with the search.

swarlb

Dades wrote: »

I've spent far more keeping my 06 Passat on the road than I've ever spent on my 30 year old car. Accordingly I'm less inclined to buy into this!

To be fair, a lot of it boils down to luck. You've more chance of being unlucky with a classic you buy than you have being lucky with a modern.

I don't know what your 30 year old car is, but the fact that you have an '06 Passat suggests its not a daily driver. And my interpretation of a daily driver is the car you drive every day to and from work, in all weathers, in all road conditions, in traffic, sitting in jams, stuck at lights, crawling at 5mph, cruising at 50/60/70 mph, not having the time to wash the outside, or vacumn the inside ('cos of the workload). The car you ferry kids to and from school if need be, the car you collect all sorts of stuff from shops, supermarkets, diy centers. In other words, apart from work and sleep, the other place you spend your day.
The type of car, that when it was new in 1979, you did all that stuff, the same as your Passat does now.
When people suggest a 'classic' car for everyday use, what they really mean is 'A borderline Car That Just Fits Into The Bracket For Cheap Road Tax And Possibly Insurance.....And Hopefully NON NCTable'.
I realize people ideas of classic cars and old cars is completely different, but to me a classic car is just that, a classic car...out of the ordinary, oddball, not very common, and a bit of fun to maintain and drive.

OneCheque

swarlb wrote: »

The type of car, that when it was new in 1979, you did all that stuff, the same as your Passat does now.
When people suggest a 'classic' car for everyday use, what they really mean is 'A borderline Car That Just Fits Into The Bracket For Cheap Road Tax And Possibly Insurance.....And Hopefully NON NCTable'.
I realize people ideas of classic cars and old cars is completely different, but to me a classic car is just that, a classic car...out of the ordinary, oddball, not very common, and a bit of fun to maintain and drive.

I could hardly walk in 1979...and my father owned a 125cc motorbike or maybe a Trabant then:)

For me, a classic car is also a dream car from my past - I grown up surrounded by crap Soviet Union block cars. I could hardly imagine owning a solid german car ever.
Mercs were not popular, same as beemers, not to mention Porsche. Most of them cars I'd have seen on the posters, if I could get them.

I remember when my uncle somehow got a red BMW 2002 - wow! I was maybe 10, and the car indicated unfastened seat belts by little display in german - or so I was told.

If I could own and drive an excellent and uncommon w126 more than occasionally - why not try?

swarlb

OneCheque wrote: »

I could hardly walk in 1979...and my father owned a 125cc motorbike or maybe a Trabant then:)

For me, a classic car is also a dream car from my past - I grown up surrounded by crap Soviet Union block cars. I could hardly imagine owning a solid german car ever.
Mercs were not popular, same as beemers, not to mention Porsche. Most of them cars I'd have seen on the posters, if I could get them.

I remember when my uncle somehow got a red BMW 2002 - wow! I was maybe 10, and the car indicated unfastened seat belts by little display in german - or so I was told.

If I could own and drive an excellent and uncommon w126 more than occasionally - why not try?

Nothing wrong with that at all. The point I'm trying to make is the people choosing a car that fits the requirement of cheap tax and insurance, rather then picking a old car they want, regardless of the costs involved.
As far as I'm aware the whole idea of cheap road tax was to encourage the use and upkeep of old car (as a hobby or pastime), and not to use them as a daily driver. I was also under the impression that insurance companies insist that for a 30+ year old car you also need a 'modern' car as your main driver.

kdevitt

swarlb wrote: »

I was also under the impression that insurance companies insist that for a 30+ year old car you also need a 'modern' car as your main driver.

Only if you're going for a classic policy. Nothing stopping you from getting a normal policy on the car and availing of the 56 a year road tax, although some companies will be reluctant to quote I'd imagine.

Dades

I guess it depends on your needs as a "daily driver".

You're right in that heavy usage (long trips + countless short trips) will probably impact more on a classic than a modern. But if your daily driver is less of a workhorse and maybe just a secondary workhorse, then there's a choice to be had is the buyer goes in with their eyes open.

Certainly with a young family I'd be hesitant to have a classic as the only car.

kevin65

Yes, the proposed usage would be a big factor. If I was doing low mileage, I would consider getting a classic as a company car. The BIK is based on the original purchase price, and all running costs would be covered as business costs.

deckie27

Dades wrote: »

Certainly with a young family I'd be hesitant to have a classic as the only car.

Yip better with 2 or more classis...

944 ya wont fit a child seat in the rear.

OneCheque

I'm not very familiar with 944 - are the rear seats narrower than in 928?

Kenny Logins

OneCheque wrote: »

I'm not very familiar with 944 - are the rear seats narrower than in 928?

Yes.

unkel

And the leg room is tiny in the rear of a 924 / 944 compared to a 928. But beware, I'm not sure of the (different generations of) 924 / 944 but the 928 only has lapbelts as standard in the rear

Dades

You can fit 3-pointers in the rear of a 924/944 no problem.

I doubt you'd get a rear-facing seat in, however. The booster style seats are probably the only realistic option. The room back there is so tight though kids would only be comfortable for so many years before they start to complain. I'd say with as a long term option, the rear seats are not a runner.

I have my 3 & 5 year olds in a 924 for short trips but would NOT recommend it as anything but a fun second option. A few pictures say a thousand words.

iverjohnston

If I ever sell the W123 I have now, I would fancy a Saab 900 or a Volvo Amazon.

shawnee

Yeah have a 123 myself and like those 900 but am pretty sure they are not as reliable as the merc

hairypigeon

1984 sec amg's are 30 years old in a few months have a look on google

theres a restored 240z on done deal which looks amazing and is definitely classic qualified

and so's the saab 900 turbo

http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/12/saab-900.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/12/saab-the-eulogy/&h=579&w=1000&sz=57&tbnid=Om00Kxgk7sP5oM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=155&zoom=1&usg=__VHIs8_ke5qrz3X_QgTzrdv9mqJQ=&docid=oEu1dgHt5orzWM&sa=X&ei=vRmKUpLYNumN7AbqjYGgDg&ved=0CDUQ9QEwAQ

pryantcc

Hi folks, I've just committed myself to this in a big way. i've bought a 1971 Merc 280SE. I plan to swap the 3.5 v8 auto setup for a 2.5L manual diesel.

My criteria were to have a cool pre 1980 car which is robust and (relatively) economical. I also needed rear doors and seatbelts. Currently driving a 1992 2.0L diesel 190 which costs very little to run but over 700 quid a year to tax!

I've only driven it about 40 miles, but I absolutely loved the experience. I now have a car which I can actually fix rather than having to throw bits away and replace them with new bits. I can squirt grease into the joints, take almost everything apart and re-assemble it, and drive past the NCT centre with a wide grin (until I have to take the wife's Berlingo in!).

Kenny Logins

pryantcc wrote: »

I plan to swap the 3.5 v8 auto setup for a 2.5L manual diesel.

pryantcc

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Don't worry, I'll be storing it sensitively in the corner of the shed so it can be reunited with the car in case I ever decide to sell it on.
The car wouldn't be driven with that engine, isn't it better that it gets seen out and about on our lovely roads than sitting festering in my shed until I can save up 150 Euros for a day out?!

Kenny Logins

pryantcc wrote: »

Don't worry, I'll be storing it sensitively in the corner of the shed so it can be reunited with the car in case I ever decide to sell it on.
The car wouldn't be driven with that engine, isn't it better that it gets seen out and about on our lovely roads than sitting festering in my shed until I can save up 150 Euros for a day out?!

Yeah, don't mind me. Easy to grumble when I'm not paying the for petrol.

OneCheque

I remember driving my 450 SLC to work (some 30 km) and noticing fuel gauge going down as you drive.

Absolutely lovely driving experience though. You just need to own a petrol station;)

By the way - I wish I had a shed

daz16

I know you stipulated over 30 years but in the interest that good ones are hard to find you should look at this.
http://cars.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/mercedes-190e-1989/6038530

I know the car from around the town and it is really really clean. Same owner years and years and always appeared well looked after.