Generation War (Our Mothers,Our Fathers)

siblers

RTE Two will be showing this 3 part mini-series this coming Sunday (17th). It's about 5 German friends during world war 2. It's made by the guys behind Downfall so you know it'll be in good hands.
I've seen the first 2 episodes and its really good, visually superb, great performances and they don't shy away from the horrors committed by the Germans. Definitely worth watching. I couldn't find any English trailers, so this will have to do.

Balaclava1991

:)Looks fantastic!

Stephen Spielberg is apparently making a new TV drama series about the American air offensive against Germany during WW2.

Basically an extended version of Memphis Belle.

American audiences would never watch a TV series in the style Band of Brothers about Nazi or Soviet troops.

Most Americans still believe they won WW2 even though the overwhelming majority of the fighting and dying was in the East including especially the epic struggles for Moscow, Leningrad, Stalingrad and Kursk.

I hope it is in the style of movies like Cross of Iron and Stalingrad and novels like Sven Hassel's Legion of the Damned and Guy Sajer's The Forgotten Soldier.

lertsnim

Looking forward to this. Reviews are very positive.

Mr E

Off topic stuff deleted. Start a blog.

The Black Oil

Looking forward to this.

The Helpful Engineer

It starts tonight at 9pm, I am looking forward to it too. Here's an Article in the IT about it. Click here.

Lapin

So far so good !

Had to wait for the ad break to write anything here because I didn't want to miss aany of the subtitles !

Lapin

For a moment there I thought that cat was going to make a guest appearance on next week's Late Late Show !

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

Whoever did the subtitles on this made a balls of it. Good show though, which makes it all the more annoying

Da Shins Kelly

Great show, but the subtitles are all over the place. Random words left out, sometimes entire sentences. At one point a nurse was talking about administering an injection to a hat. Wtf?

Other than that, excellent show. Might try and see if I can find a version online with better English subtitles.

Zed Bank

Oh those crafty communists!

Zed Bank

Hey Hitler did Napoleon ever let you know, when you invade Russia you better bring some ****ing winter clothes?

Lapin

And there was I thinking he cut the tree for firewood.

statesaver

The subtitles were crappy though, noticed words left out.

Over all i enjoyed it.

siblers

I got a copy of it online and the subtitles were off too (on two different versions) so I think you may have to just bare with it.

statesaver

siblers wrote: »

I got a copy of it online and the subtitles were off too (on two different versions) so I think you may have to just bare with it.

That's disappointing to hear.

Da Shins Kelly

Seems odd that such a series could be lacking on the translation side of things.

turnback

Ah the hat thing was actually what she said. She was testing the other woman's German.

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Great show, but the subtitles are all over the place. Random words left out, sometimes entire sentences. At one point a nurse was talking about administering an injection to a hat. Wtf?

Other than that, excellent show. Might try and see if I can find a version online with better English subtitles.

The Helpful Engineer

I really enjoyed the first episode, its a pity there are only three in total.

Da Shins Kelly

turnback wrote: »

Ah the hat thing was actually what she said. She was testing the other woman's German.

:pac:

I missed the first part of that scene and when I came back into the room, they were talking about hats, and I was just thinking "wtf are they talking about?"

There was also parts where they'd just leave out words at the end of sentences, which was really annoying.

endakenny

deccurley wrote: »

Whoever did the subtitles on this made a balls of it. Good show though, which makes it all the more annoying

Who did the translation for the subtitles?

endakenny

The nurse was still friendly towards the Ukrainian woman after she found out that the Ukrainian is Jewish. Why did she suddenly decide to squeal on her?

Da Shins Kelly

endakenny wrote: »

The nurse was still friendly towards the Ukrainian woman after she found out that the Ukrainian is Jewish. Why did she suddenly decide to squeal on her?

I wasn't clear on this either. I thought it was an impulsive thing that she did after finding out she lied to her, and then later on she got to know her, but by then it was too late.

Balaclava1991

The series is a joke.

All of the lead characters are Germans during WW2 and none of them are ideologically Nazis? Only the minor characters are Nazis and they are typical stereotypes.
It also tries to draw a distinction between the ordinary Germany Army soldier and the SS and tries to portray them and the German people as pawns rather than freely supporting Hitler and fully complicit.
The truth is the German Army was full to the rafters with Nazis, they believed in Hitler's racial ideology, they co-operated with the SS in the round ups of Jews, the starvation and murder of Soviet POWs and the massacres of civilians in reprisal for partisan guerrilla attacks.
The majority of the German armed forces and the German people supported Hitler and the Holocaust and his vision of an Aryan world empire right up until the end.

endakenny

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I wasn't clear on this either. I thought it was an impulsive thing that she did after finding out she lied to her, and then later on she got to know her, but by then it was too late.

I recall that, after the nurse confronted the Ukrainian about being Jewish, she went to the matron's office. Later we see her being friendly with the Ukrainian outside the hospital and she advised her to leave. The Ukrainian asked why but the nurse apologised and said it didn't matter. Later, army officers arrive to arrest the Ukrainian. The nurse runs to warn her but it's too late.

If the nurse told the matron that the Ukrainian was Jewish when she went to the matron's office then why was there such a delay between then and when the officers arrived to arrest the Ukrainian?

expectationlost

not a fan of the camera work, and then watching it on the rte playing make it even more jerky

expectationlost

wtf words missing

8mv

The poor subtitles didn't ruin it for me. It looked to me as if the ratio it was shown in didn't match the original - as if there was occasionally a line of translated dialogue that we couldn't see just off the bottom of the screen. Would that be possible?
Anyway, I thought it was really good. We got to know and care about the five central characters and I'm looking forward to next week.

PhiloCypher

Zed Bank wrote: »

Hey Hitler did Napoleon ever let you know, when you invade Russia you better bring some ****ing winter clothes?

Like an eejit he thought a country the size of Russia could be conquered over the summer holidays.

Balaclava1991

PhiloCypher wrote: »

Like an eejit he thought a country the size of Russia could be conquered over the summer holidays.

Hitler had only one throw of the dice - defeat the Soviet Army west of the Volga and capture Moscow by the end of 1941 before the Soviets mobilized their manpower and their industry started pumping out planes, tanks and artillery pieces.

recipio

Intelligent and realistic series, could do with a 10 part series. Its exploring the deteriorating position of the Jews in 1941 and the slow grinding down of the German army on the eastern front. Contrary to opinion, the Wehrmacht were not all Nazi fanatics, but were drawn into the brutality under pressure from the SS and Hitler's direct orders. Quite a coup for RTE to get this first - its classic Channel 4 material.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Thought this was very good. Very bleak, but then it's war so it's to be expected.

I did notice the subtitle problem too but it wasn't that big a deal. The few lines they left out or dropped words from weren't massively important and you still got the main point of those conversations.

It's a funny one though, I feel invested in these characters but then they go and do something like report the Ukrainian nurse, or suggest the Russian's go through the swamp in front of them, and then I don't know how to feel.

Still, it's an interesting new take on WWII which has been done to death from the Allies point of view.


I was a bit confused at the end though when

they lifted Viktor off the street and then your man came into him in the room. Did he go back on his deal with Gretta or did he step in and sort it out when someone else lifted Viktor?

Balaclava1991

recipio wrote: »

Intelligent and realistic series, could do with a 10 part series. Its exploring the deteriorating position of the Jews in 1941 and the slow grinding down of the German army on the eastern front. Contrary to opinion, the Wehrmacht were not all Nazi fanatics, but were drawn into the brutality under pressure from the SS and Hitler's direct orders. Quite a coup for RTE to get this first - its classic Channel 4 material.

That is utter rubbish.

Without the co-operation of the Wehrmacht the blackest crimes of the Third Reich would not have been possible.
They murdered civilians, they rounded up Jews, the starved Soviet prisoners, they razed cities to the ground and they were willing followers of Hitler and the Nazis and racial ideology.
The SS and and 900,000 strong Waffen SS were only a fraction of Hitler's armed forces.
The Wehrmacht looted, raped, burned, destroyed and killed innocents everywhere they went.
The German civilian population were also enthusiastic followers of the Hitler cult - man, woman and child.

CorsendonkX

recipio wrote: »

Intelligent and realistic series, could do with a 10 part series. Its exploring the deteriorating position of the Jews in 1941 and the slow grinding down of the German army on the eastern front. Contrary to opinion, the Wehrmacht were not all Nazi fanatics, but were drawn into the brutality under pressure from the SS and Hitler's direct orders. Quite a coup for RTE to get this first - its classic Channel 4 material.

BBC2 have the UK rights.

Manach

I'm going to respectfully disagree with Balaclava1991 in part. My readings from primary source and secondary materials on WWII, especially the eastern front suggest that there were a number of atrocities carried out by the Wehrmacht. But in general it was the special extermination units that were the prime culprits with the ordinary soldiers only at times acting as auxiliaries. Saying that, the level of civilian deaths in the conflict was awful and it was clear why commentators called it the Bloodlands.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

I can't argue the ins and outs of history but given it's a German made TV show they couldn't really go all out evil Nazis with the main characters. I'm sure they're all aware of their own history but the main characters have to be somewhat sympathetic otherwise nobody is going to watch.

siblers

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Thought this was very good. Very bleak, but then it's war so it's to be expected.

I did notice the subtitle problem too but it wasn't that big a deal. The few lines they left out or dropped words from weren't massively important and you still got the main point of those conversations.

It's a funny one though, I feel invested in these characters but then they go and do something like report the Ukrainian nurse, or suggest the Russian's go through the swamp in front of them, and then I don't know how to feel.

Still, it's an interesting new take on WWII which has been done to death from the Allies point of view.


I was a bit confused at the end though when

they lifted Viktor off the street and then your man came into him in the room. Did he go back on his deal with Gretta or did he step in and sort it out when someone else lifted Viktor?

I think when the SS guy saw Viktor with Gretta at the cinema/theatre he decided then he was gonna arrest Viktor instead of letting him go. Although he may never had any intention of letting him go, its hard to say really as we don't know much about the SS guy

gandalf

Watched it tonight on the RTE Player and it was definitely a good show. Very bleak and as said above when you are starting to warm to a character they make a decision that has grim consequences which I think is refreshing and commendable which makes this even more compelling viewing.

The only problem I had were the dodgy subtitles. In some cases they cut out mid sentence and in one case displayed 300km when the German titles on screen said 500kms. Hopefully this is ironed out in the next episodes.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

gandalf wrote: »

The only problem I had were the dodgy subtitles. In some cases they cut out mid sentence and in one case displayed 300km when the German titles on screen said 500kms. Hopefully this is ironed out in the next episodes.

Yeah, I didn't think the subtitles for those parts were necessary. Or subtitle it the first time it appears and then you'd know what it meant every other time it appeared.

riffmongous

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

That is utter rubbish.

Without the co-operation of the Wehrmacht the blackest crimes of the Third Reich would not have been possible.
They murdered civilians, they rounded up Jews, the starved Soviet prisoners, they razed cities to the ground and they were willing followers of Hitler and the Nazis and racial ideology.
The SS and and 900,000 strong Waffen SS were only a fraction of Hitler's armed forces.
The Wehrmacht looted, raped, burned, destroyed and killed innocents everywhere they went.
The German civilian population were also enthusiastic followers of the Hitler cult - man, woman and child.

The Wehrmacht did a lot of bad things that werent necessarily the result of them being Nazis, reprisals had nothing to do with them being Nazis for example. The show certainly does not hide the fact that they did bad things.

And if you mean the bold part the way I think you meant it, it's is such a generalisation that it's just rubbish.

riffmongous

siblers wrote: »

I think when the SS guy saw Viktor with Gretta at the cinema/theatre he decided then he was gonna arrest Viktor instead of letting him go. Although he may never had any intention of letting him go, its hard to say really as we don't know much about the SS guy

It makes more sense later

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

riffmongous wrote: »

It makes more sense later

I figured it would be explained more later, I just wanted to double check I hadn't missed something


Does anyone know why it's English title isn't a direct translation of the German one?

riffmongous

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I figured it would be explained more later, I just wanted to double check I hadn't missed something


Does anyone know why it's English title isn't a direct translation of the German one?

Because 'Our Mothers, Our Fathers' doesnt apply and probably wouldn't make sense to Americans/British??

Also it always reminds me of Generation Kill a little bit

Tony EH

Balaclava1991 wrote: »

The series is a joke.

All of the lead characters are Germans during WW2 and none of them are ideologically Nazis? Only the minor characters are Nazis and they are typical stereotypes.
It also tries to draw a distinction between the ordinary Germany Army soldier and the SS and tries to portray them and the German people as pawns rather than freely supporting Hitler and fully complicit.
The truth is the German Army was full to the rafters with Nazis, they believed in Hitler's racial ideology, they co-operated with the SS in the round ups of Jews, the starvation and murder of Soviet POWs and the massacres of civilians in reprisal for partisan guerrilla attacks.
The majority of the German armed forces and the German people supported Hitler and the Holocaust and his vision of an Aryan world empire right up until the end.

Statistically speaking, "ideological Nazis" would have been in the minority amongst the 80 million people that populated Germany. Support for the National Socialists was even decreasing before Hitler got to power in 1933 and the nazis never got a good footing in the major urban areas of the country.

Likewise, the vast majority of the Wehrmacht were not nazi party members. Neither were the Waffen SS, in fact. The lion's share of the Waffen SS weren't even German, never mind National Socialist.

99% of the Germans never knew of the nazi's excesses, how could they? And they certainly did not "support" the holocaust, much of which was kept away from the public.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

riffmongous wrote: »

Because 'Our Mothers, Our Fathers' doesnt apply and probably wouldn't make sense to Americans/British??

Also it always reminds me of Generation Kill a little bit

Going to sound like an idiot here but it never clicked with me what it meant until you said that. I knew literally translated it meant "Our Mothers, Our Fathers" but I never copped what it was referring to.

Ceist_Beag

CorsendonkX wrote: »

BBC2 have the UK rights.

Anyone know when BBC2 are showing it?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

Anyone know when BBC2 are showing it?

It said "later this year" in an article published in August.

Da Shins Kelly

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

I was a bit confused at the end though when

they lifted Viktor off the street and then your man came into him in the room. Did he go back on his deal with Gretta or did he step in and sort it out when someone else lifted Viktor?

My gut was telling me that

poor aul Viktor is going to end up in a camp. It's too good to be true with the SS guy. He's getting what he wants from the deal with Greta, but he's not going to come through and rescue Viktor. I think the "have a good trip" at the end was meant to be cruel sarcasm.

recipio

For me, its exploring the conflicts that German society had evolved into, by 1941. There is extreme naivety, blind faith in Hitler's policies and genuine racial hatred. However, there were some elements, mainly the officer class of the Wehrmacht who had misgivings about the Russian campaign - like the lieutenant Wilhelm - but who went along with the barbarity as the campaign progressed. Remember, refusal to carry out an order meant deportation to a camp or summary execution.
It will be interesting to see how they handle the retreat from Russia which was an exercise in wanton and pointless destruction.

Pang

Fantastic show. The acting is superb. I think Volker Bruch who plays Wilhelm is wonderful.

It is so dark and bleak at times that I have to think happy thoughts. I find the parts in the hospital and later in episode two

Kurst

dismal and saddening.

I found episode one addictive so much that I couldn't wait for next Sunday night so I have just watched two and am going to watch episode three after the games tonight.

I am really curious as to where Greta's story is going to lead to.

Qwerty27

Anybody know the name of the song played in the RTE promo clip for episode 2 currently being shown?