Parents to vote on whether they want their schools to have a uniform and what type

IvaBigWun

A move announced by Education Minister Ruairi Quinn today is designed to give parents a greater say over the issue – with a view to controlling back to school costs.

He wants schools that have uniform policies, or are contemplating one to ballot parents between the end of this month and the end of February.

The ballot will be part of a wider dialogue between his department and the education partners - parents, school managers and teacher union – on tackling the issue.

Parents will be asked to vote on a series of options such as:

• do they want a school uniform or not?

• if they opt for a uniform do they want trousers, jumpers, blouses, shirts and skirts in colours/shades available in the large retail chains?

• do they want a school blazer, a school crest on garments and what type?

He wants any changes to uniform policy implemented in the next school year, starting September 2014.

“I’m not proposing that school uniform policy should be changed to the point that additional costs will be added,” said Minister Quinn on RTE New’s at One today.

“What I’m suggesting is a ballot no later than February to enable any changes that might be contemplated.

“This is really just listening to parents and the representatives of parents such as Barnardos and St Vincent de Paul who have brought to my attention over the last two years since I became minster, costs of which they feel they have no control and costs which they feel are excessive.

The Minister went on to say that: “We will speak to all the representatives in various schools. We have around 4,000 schools - 3,250 primary schools and 750 post primary schools.

Mr Quinn said he believed that empowering parents to determine school uniform policy was the most effective way to tackle back to school costs

“I have consistently said that schools should listen to the parents on this matter since it is parents who incur the costs arising from the decisions that schools make.

“Balloting all parents should ensure that a school fully captures the views of its parent body”.

In recent months, Tanaiste Eamon Gilmore pushed strongly for an initiative on uniforms to help reduce costs.

The department will issue the template questionnaire to schools by the end of this month.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/parents-to-vote-on-whether-they-want-school-uniforms-scrapped-29744176.html

I think this will lead to kids been pressurised to wear certain designer brands too soon.

Maybe a "no uniform on a Friday" rule would suffice

vitani

It's probably the best way to go about it. Some parents will want a uniform, some won't, some will want a generic, some of the more affluent areas might be happier to stick with a crested uniform. Let each school decide for itself based on what the parents want.

danniemcq

take school logos off uniforms.

If parents can't afford it let them buy something similer but cheaper elsewhere. With no logos or brands it would take a lot of pressure off

hfallada

Any teacher will tell you non uniform day is a night mare. Cliques form for one day as people don't want to assosicate with another person because of what they are wearing.

However schools need to modernise the uniforms. The wool jumpers are ****. You smell like a wet dog when they are wet and are roasting in summer and freezing in the winter. You should be allowed to buy a plain jumper from dunnes or penny's to stick on a school chest. You shouldn't have to pay €70 for a jumper just because there is no supplier

Sunnyisland

I think they should be mandatory,School uniforms would/should take some of that pressure away because when everyone is dressed the same there really isn't much room for discrimination. Kids can therefore be judged by their peers on their own merits, not by what brand of jeans they wear. Parents as well can benefit because buying uniforms is much cheaper and less stressful than spending obscene amounts of time and money purchasing a varied wardrobe, often for more than they can afford.

murphym7

Stupid and unnecessary, he said it’s to help control costs. I think it could have the opposite effect. School becomes a fashion show each day with kids either trying to outdo one another or try to keep up with some of the other trend setters. Expensive brand name Jeans, tops, runners etc…….

dr.bollocko

hugo boss had some pretty snazi uniforms designed in the 30s and 40s.

I wouldn't be in favour of kids wearing their own clothes. Peer pressure and ever changing, expensive fashion trends would be a heavy burden on parents.

Generic uniforms with no school crest would be my choice. Sickened shelling out €50 on a bad quality crested jumper that lasts no more than two months!

danniemcq

dr.bollocko wrote: »

hugo boss had some pretty snazi uniforms designed in the 30s and 40s.

That trend swept through Europe

Tombi!

As someone that absolutely hated the feel of the school trousers (yes, we had specific ones) just let the kids wear generic trousers and a specific shirt from various colors; short sleeved or long sleeved and maybe a sort of generic "smart" jumper. Nothing like a hoody or with logos on it or bands, etc.

Maybe once or twice a week let them wear in tracksuit bottoms or jeans and a t-shirt (again, nothing too sort of... logo-y). Less chance of a clique being formed based on who wears what that way.

I mean a pair of trousers and a shirt from pennies cost about 20 euro. Three pairs of each would do most kids for the week. One pair Monday, one pair Tuesday, one pair Wednesday (wash the first two on Tuesday night) and they'll be ready for Thrusday/Friday.

charlietheminxx

I think a dress code would be the answer. Black trousers/skirt, a shirt and a plain black cardigan/jumper. Simple, affordable and no issues with finding it or even with rivalry between schools.

MadsL

danniemcq wrote: »

take school logos off uniforms.

If parents can't afford it let them buy something similer but cheaper elsewhere. With no logos or brands it would take a lot of pressure off

This. There has been a very cosy cartel for many, many years between local shops and the local school. Often the only place to buy these overpriced items.

School uniforms need modernising too. Workwear style clothing in a heavy duty fabrics would help reduce replacement costs.

Good looking Carhaart style jackets and work pants would look better on most boys.

Amirani

I hated school jumpers so I always just wore a shirt, tie and trousers. Benefits being that it's cheap and you don't feel like you're wearing a big ball of abrasive itchiness.

Pushtrak

realies wrote: »

I think they should be mandatory,School uniforms would/should take some of that pressure away because when everyone is dressed the same there really isn't much room for discrimination.

I'd agree with the uniform for the same reason as you, but if only it were so simple. I'd suggest it just removes one area in which this influence would be felt. It's a very important thing to do, but let's not get carried away about its efficacy.

my teapot is orange

hfallada wrote: »

Any teacher will tell you non uniform day is a night mare. Cliques form for one day as people don't want to assosicate with another person because of what they are wearing.

But do kids not do this anyway? I've never been in any large group that didn't have cliques - and I don't just mean groups of friends who tend to hang out together, but would still welcome others, I mean cliques of people who consider themselves superior for whatever reason and don't want others in their little groups. Adults often do it too.

Shenshen

I never understood the deal about school uniforms - I grew up in a country that hasn't had them in living memory. Now, while I openly admit to approaching 40 much quicker than I would like, I cannot for the life of me remember a single instance when someone was picked on for what they wore.

I remember being picked on for being fat, I remember the kids who wore glasses geeting picked on, and I remember in my teenage years that kids with noticable BO got picked on quite a bit. I even remember my rucksack being cut to shreds by a bully once because it had Bambi on it and they felt it was too cute for me to own.
But clothes? No ...

And why would you? Cut your kids some slack, they are far more creative in finding things to discriminate about, they don't need to rely on clothing.

And if they are so boring as to bully people because of clothes, surely they'll be quite happy to bully the poor kid who is wearing the crappy uniform they've already grown out of and which they got as a hand-me-down from an older sibling. As if that wouldn't show.

Sleephead

Rather then remove uniform why not update them?

Or how about just using the crested school tracksuits with a plain white non branded polo on a full time basis?

Why not get the school to order these items and sell at a reasonable cost back to parents? Be a nice way to make money towards the farcical €200 a child photocopying you year about!

All easily done these days.

Plates

MadsL wrote: »

This. There has been a very cosy cartel for many, many years between local shops and the local school. Often the only place to buy these overpriced items.

Cartels? Really?

Jaysus - is there no end to the conspiracy theories / paranoia that everyone is out to get you?

I blame the banks, developers, politicians, tax exiles and bond holders. And Germany.

Shenshen

Plates wrote: »

Cartels? Really?

Jaysus - is there no end to the conspiracy theories / paranoia that everyone is out to get you?

I blame the banks, developers, politicians, tax exiles and bond holders. And Germany.

Meh, Germany doesn't have school uniforms.

mikom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAs7F9inPxw

snickerpuss

Went to a non-uniform school where nobody cared who wore what. Apparently we were the only school in Ireland where that happened. Seriously though, kids will be picked on by other kids for anything - weight, hair colour, where they live...etc. Hate uniforms.

shruikan2553

I have never understood the whole children will pick on others thing. Children are far more creative than you think. Being bad at football is more likely to get you bullied but we dont ban that.

If they are keeping the uniforms they need to be changed, they are cold in winter, too warm in summer and cost a fortune in the 1 shop in town that sells them. Ties arent needed either. Schools seem to have some idea that the students should look smart but dont seem to understand sticking a tie on someone wearing a poorly fitted jumper thats falling apart does not achieve this. Something comfortable with a jumper that can be taken off in summer and a cold winter breeze wont go straight through it.

iDave

realies wrote: »

Kids can therefore be judged by their peers on their own merits.

Yeah because that what currently happens :rolleyes:

Neyite

Pick a colour - grey /wine / navy or whatever as the school colour

Trousers/Skirts/Jumpers/ Cardigans in the school colour from any retailer that the parent chooses, along with a white polo shirt or shirt whether its Pennys or BT. No logo/branding allowed.

School sells a crest patch which gets stitched onto the jumper/cardigan.


None of this crap where one little shop in the whole city is the only place you have to go on a waiting list before you can buy a v-necked navy crested jumper for €70 that will have frayed to unwearable by the mid-term break.

MadsL

Plates wrote: »

Cartels? Really?

Jaysus - is there no end to the conspiracy theories / paranoia that everyone is out to get you?

What else do you call a situation where the school decides what the child will wear, and gives you one shop where you can buy it?

That's the very definition of a cartel.

Fussgangerzone

I would have thought that cheap school trousers for example would actually save people money. I agree with thsoe saying that more generic clothes would make things cheaper.

Personally, I think a national book rental scheme would be a good idea. Books are ridiculously dear, never mind uniforms.

Genghiz Cohen

danniemcq wrote: »

That trend swept through Europe

Blitz'd, you might say.

Mint Aero

It's so backward. The reason they make such a big deal about what people wear on non uniform days is because it's such a novelty for them to not have to wear stuff they don't want to. Gas isn't it in this day and age we make kids wear uniforms

The reason, my old principal said for uniforms was because when we start work we'll be wearing them so get used to it sound for the vote confidence.

rubadub

Some schools have kids in uniforms and confirmations or communions. This made sense to me, as they were not blowing money on a one-off expensive suit or dress, and got another use out of it.

Black trousers and white shirts as uniforms make more sense to me, as the kids might get some other use out of them, i.e. at formal family functions, where turning up in a grey trousers or shirt might just look like a school uniform.

TheIrishGrover

As others have said, take the logos off. That way they can get their uniform easily and cheaper from Dunnes or Pennys or wherever. Uniforms are handy in that they do help costs in the long run. As the OP said, there's less Peer Pressure on students regarding clothing if everyone's wearing a uniform.

miss no stars

Keep uniforms but allow them to be generic with stitch on crests for jumpers.

The cost of some uniforms for first years must be at least €300... School jacket, skirt, jumper, shirts x5, tie (my school had a new one every year!!), uniform socks x5, PE jumper, track suit bottoms, polo shirt x2, scarf and shoes. All to be purchased from the designated shop at excessive prices and usually made of the least wearer-friendly material possible. Niiiice.

What's the purpose of the uniform anyway? Because if it's any reason other than making the school look prestigious your bought in dunnes uniform with crest sewn on serves every purpose there is.

Skatedude

School uniforms can be a big mistake. the idea of having to wear one for a job after many years of been stuck with them in school actually puts people off.
Most of the people in my class would not even apply for jobs that required them after leaving school.

Randy Shafter

Skatedude wrote: »

School uniforms can be a big mistake. the idea of having to wear one for a job after many years of been stuck with them in school actually puts people off.
Most of the people in my class would not even apply for jobs that required them after leaving school.

Surely they know that you have to look somewhat presentable when working?

Santa Cruz

Skatedude wrote: »

School uniforms can be a big mistake. the idea of having to wear one for a job after many years of been stuck with them in school actually puts people off.
Most of the people in my class would not even apply for jobs that required them after leaving school.

That is a very mature approach to getting employment. Maybe you could arrange for employers to send you out the wages altogether without doing any work.

whiteandlight

For all his claims about saving costs for parents, this is a sound bite/pontificating. If he actually had any interest in reducing costs for parents he would be dealing with the cost of school books and funding for schools.

As a teacher there are three things the department should be mandating in relation to cutting costs (not getting voting??!)
1. Encouraging/supporting/paying people to write books that could then be distributed free within schools-NOT relying on publishers
2. Requiring schools (and parents associations) to remove the logo from school clothing
3. Supporting schools/parents to move to technology thus reducing the cost of photocopying and printing within schools.

4zn76tysfajdxp

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I wouldn't be in favour of kids wearing their own clothes. Peer pressure and ever changing, expensive fashion trends would be a heavy burden on parents.

I hate seeing this excuse whenever the school uniform debate pops up, as if the parents have no choice but to give in whenever their kids nag them about the latest fashion trends.

I went to a school that didn't have a uniform, it's not a good idea IMO.

However, generic dresscodes without school branding would work a treat I think. One of the most expensive private schools in Dublin doesn't have a crest on their jumper meaning it can be bought in any uniform retailer so I don't know why public schools can't do the same.

Gee_G

I agree with a lot if posters about just having let's say a navy jumper, grey trousers and whatever coloured t-shirts/shirt al of which can be bought in Dunnes, penneys, heatons etc. If the school wants a crest on the jumper, have them available to buy and get then sewn onto the jumper.
My mother used to do this for our uniforms rather than buying a jumper 3 times the price in the little local drapery store that supplied the uniforms but as far as I know this is no longer allowed in that school.

Fr_Dougal

dr.bollocko wrote: »

hugo boss had some pretty snazi uniforms designed in the 30s and 40s.

Yeah Hugo Boss uniforms might be the final solution to this uniform problem alright.

anncoates

Uniforms are handier imo but just allow generic uniforms and not rip off crested ones from a single supplier.

Mr.S

Mr.S wrote: »

Why is it not a good idea? I went schools that had both uniform and non uniformed. Non uniformed was much more enjoyable overall, and there was never any issue with bullying, conforming, etc. Some people wore Pennies, Dunnes, some people wore designer clothes from Brown Thomas, no one cared.

That's not the experience I had. There was a lot of pressure to wear the "right" clothes, if you didn't you got grief. We couldn't afford the right clothes, so I got grief!

131spanner

Schools should definitely keep uniforms, other than cost I can't think of many ways that they're a bad thing..?

Kit 'em out in generic uniforms you can buy in Dunnes or Penney's for a reasonable price. No badges or crests. Navy for everyone. Sorted.

anncoates

Mr.S wrote: »

Why is it not a good idea? I went schools that had both uniform and non uniformed. Non uniformed was much more enjoyable overall, and there was never any issue with bullying, conforming, etc. Some people wore Pennies, Dunnes, some people wore designer clothes from Brown Thomas, no one cared.

Your school days sounds idyllic. Were they scripted by Enid Blyton?

P_1

Deleted User wrote: »

That's not the experience I had. There was a lot of pressure to wear the "right" clothes, if you didn't you got grief. We couldn't afford the right clothes, so I got grief!

Wouldn't that not happen with a uniform policy though? I remember getting a lot of grief for not having the 'right' look back in my secondary school days

Emelia Worried Lounge

Emelia Worried Lounge wrote: »

I hate seeing this excuse whenever the school uniform debate pops up, as if the parents have no choice but to give in whenever their kids nag them about the latest fashion trends.

Give over.

anncoates

It's a little innocent to say don't give in to peer pressure with your kids.

Fair enough, you don't give in to everything - and it's a given that you inculcate value with possessions - but it's a little cruel to make your kids stand out completely from their peers in a highly conformist time like early school days.

Plus all families might not have equal income.

clairefontaine

Deleted User wrote: »

I went to a school that didn't have a uniform, it's not a good idea IMO.

However, generic dresscodes without school branding would work a treat I think. One of the most expensive private schools in Dublin doesn't have a crest on their jumper meaning it can be bought in any uniform retailer so I don't know why public schools can't do the same.

I had a dress code, and a very strict one, very specific, only pastel Oxford shirts, a crested blazer, had to have socks or tights, no bare legs in the summer, obviously no denim, skirts with no slits, knee to calf length. No runners.No exceptions. A uniform would have been easier. Or wearing what you want. Because a dress code means spending alot of money on clothes you really don't like that much. Whereas a uniform means spending a specific amount, but that sit then your done.

So I'd say uniform or normal clothes. And girls should be allowed to wear trousers.

Uniform fabrics are horrible. They feel awful, so no way would I want to wear them.

meoklmrk91

I also went to a school with no uniform, I loved it as I could wear trousers instead of a skirt.it was a secondary school. Every dressed casually trakie pants, hoodies, jeans, T-shirts etc. but we were always clean and tidy as that's what the conduct stated. Never heard anyone comment on anyone's clothes in a bad way, always where did you get your runners, top etc. I love it. That sort of thing. The girls never dressed slutty. The only time there was any sort of incident to do with dress is when two girls showed up in their pyjamas as a joke, they were suspended and no PJ's was added to the code of conduct. They thought it was hilarious the rest of us thought it was sad.

I would be all for no uniforms, seeing my family and friends struggle to send their kids back to school was hard, this year due to the cut on the back to school was especially hard. I say feck the uniforms all together, maybe a school jacket for them to wear when they are going on trips or something as it would make them easier to spot but I really don't think there is any point in uniforms.

byhookorbycrook

It's sound bite stuff, like so much else RQ comes out with. Parents in our school are regularly consulted about uniform. Our PE "uniform" is a sweatshirt, generic white polo and logo free black tracksuit bottoms. School crest is available to buy and sew on to the jumper.#

He is using tactics like this to distract from the 11 million in cuts he is about to make

Grayson

I went to a little country school followed by a small sized secondary school. I never had a uniform. The first time anyone even made we wear a uniform was when I started working in Dunnes. I lasted 4 days.

Grayson

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

, maybe a school jacket for them to wear when they are going on trips or something as it would make them easier to spot but I really don't think there is any point in uniforms.

Even just a school hoodie. It's casual and presentable when you're a kid.