Womans face slashed on OCS

EyeSight

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/woman-in-serious-condition-after-she-was-stabbed-in-the-face-29743469.html

A WOMAN in her 20s was stabbed in the face in O'Connell Street last night.

Witnesses said the victim was singled out in the assault and kicked and beaten to the ground then slashed in the face just after 8pm.
The woman was rushed to the Mater Hospital where her condition was said to be not life-threatening.

<Sherlock Snip>

When will we clean up this street? The cities(and countries?) main street! :mad:

John Mason

I thought I missed the Ocean Colour Scene gig there for moment.

Deep breaths

SebBerkovich

According to the Irish Times - the guards have taken back the the thing about the poor girls face being slashed.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/woman-24-hospitalised-after-dublin-assault-1.1590942

Zascar

So was this just a bunch of junkies fighting or what? Either way, awful stuff, we really need to do something to clean up the streets around that area. Sad when people are afraid to walk down the countries main street.

Zascar

Zascar wrote: »

So was this just a bunch of junkies fighting or what? Either way, awful stuff, we really need to do something to clean up the streets around that area. Sad when people are afraid to walk down the countries main street.

Considering where it happened I wouldn't be surprised. My brother used to work in the Sony Center there and they had them hanging around all day. A blight on the street and Abbey Street around the corner.

SimonQuinlank

I find the various groups of religious lads who set up camp outside the GPO and at the top of Henry Street a lot more irritating then the addicts.

hfallada

O Connell st has improved a lot in recent years. We are shocked at this, but horrific stuff like this was common 10 years ago. The drug treatment centres need to be moved out of the city. Do thousands of heroin addicts really need to go to town to get treatment? No, they should have the services in their suburb.

I think grafton street has gone down hill. There is a lot of addicts there that you would have never seen before. That's more shocking than o Connell street

EyeSight

hfallada wrote: »

O Connell st has improved a lot in recent years. We are shocked at this, but horrific stuff like this was common 10 years ago. The drug treatment centres need to be moved out of the city. Do thousands of heroin addicts really need to go to town to get treatment? No, they should have the services in their suburb.

I think grafton street has gone down hill. There is a lot of addicts there that you would have never seen before. That's more shocking than o Connell street

I was shocked when they reported it as a stabbing.
An assault isn't shocking to me there

Amirani

hfallada wrote: »

O Connell st has improved a lot in recent years. We are shocked at this, but horrific stuff like this was common 10 years ago. The drug treatment centres need to be moved out of the city. Do thousands of heroin addicts really need to go to town to get treatment? No, they should have the services in their suburb.

To any politician that doesn't like their job very much, follow this advice.

I'm saying that in a fairly lighthearted manner. I'd like drug rehab facilities to be provided at local clinics around the city too, but any move supporting this would be political suicide.

Chucky the tree

hfallada wrote: »

O Connell st has improved a lot in recent years. We are shocked at this, but horrific stuff like this was common 10 years ago. The drug treatment centres need to be moved out of the city. Do thousands of heroin addicts really need to go to town to get treatment? No, they should have the services in their suburb.

I think grafton street has gone down hill. There is a lot of addicts there that you would have never seen before. That's more shocking than o Connell street

Considering a lot of addicts live in town then I'd say yes. Also, they have treatment centres in the suburbs as well.

endacl

I recently watched 'The Purge'....

reprazant

hfallada wrote: »

O Connell st has improved a lot in recent years. We are shocked at this, but horrific stuff like this was common 10 years ago. The drug treatment centres need to be moved out of the city. Do thousands of heroin addicts really need to go to town to get treatment? No, they should have the services in their suburb.

I think grafton street has gone down hill. There is a lot of addicts there that you would have never seen before. That's more shocking than o Connell street

Which suburb is that? Should there a clinic at each town centre? I find when people say things like this, they mean places where they do not live.

They had the clinics out in the suburbs about 10 years ago, possibly a bit more. Most build up areas had one, not just the crappy places. The problem was that crime in the areas that had them increased dramatically so they moved the centres to the city instead.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

hfallada wrote: »

The drug treatment centres need to be moved out of the city. Do thousands of heroin addicts really need to go to town to get treatment? No, they should have the services in their suburb.

Most of them live in the city thus the services are provided in the city.

Totally Tropical

EyeSight wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/woman-in-serious-condition-after-she-was-stabbed-in-the-face-29743469.html

When will we clean up this street? The cities(and countries?) main street! :mad:

You are coward and a poster with anti Dublin agenda!The O'Connell Street area is very safe!Shure thugs scumbags and junkies running riot on a city's main street is perfectly normal!:D

Sarcasm aside it's time to cut the bull**** and call a spade.We can't keep ignoring this quite enormous elephant in the room.That area is a dangerous kip morning noon and night.

The Hill Billy

hfallada wrote: »

O Connell st has improved a lot in recent years. We are shocked at this, but horrific stuff like this was common 10 years ago. The drug treatment centres need to be moved out of the city. Do thousands of heroin addicts really need to go to town to get treatment? No, they should have the services in their suburb.

I think grafton street has gone down hill. There is a lot of addicts there that you would have never seen before. That's more shocking than o Connell street

Was it drug addicts that did this? How do you know? Or are you just making a massive sweeping generalisation because - well, fnck it - they are an easy target to blame this on?

Uaru

hfallada wrote: »

O Connell st has improved a lot in receent years

I would strongly disagree with this. I worked on Parnell Street 10 years ago and waited for the bus on O'Connell Street every day and was never hassled once. I recently found myself using that bus stop again daily and the antics happening around there are on a different planet to anything I've seen before. Seriously aggressive begging and a constant game of cat and mouse going on with the Gards. Miles worse than it used to be.

It's plain as day to me who the main guy is and he has several runners dealing drugs quite blatantly while he hangs around the same spot. It's amazing to me that they can't shut his operation down.

SimonQuinlank

Uaru wrote: »

I would strongly disagree with this. I worked on Parnell Street 10 years ago and waited for the bus on O'Connell Street every day and was never hassled once. I recently found myself using that bus stop again daily and the antics happening around there are on a different planet to anything I've seen before. Seriously aggressive begging and a constant game of cat and mouse going on with the Gards. Miles worse than it used to be.

It's plain as day to me who the main guy is and he has several runners dealing drugs quite blatantly while he hangs around the same spot. It's amazing to me that they can't shut his operation down.

That might have had something to do with the economy being far healthier back then in fairness,less people resorting to begging etc.

carlmango11

SimonQuinlank wrote: »

That might have had something to do with the economy being far healthier back then in fairness,less people resorting to begging etc.

Yeah I'm sure all those salt-of-the-earth junkies were working 9-5 back in the day.

sabat

The Hill Billy wrote: »

a massive sweeping generalisation

The chances of a particular group of people having a row at that particular spot at that particular time being junkies are probably about 98%. You don't even live in Dublin if memory serves.

as two groups of people became embroiled in a "loud row" at the junction of O'Connell Street and Sackville Place,

Lux23

Uaru wrote: »

I would strongly disagree with this. I worked on Parnell Street 10 years ago and waited for the bus on O'Connell Street every day and was never hassled once. I recently found myself using that bus stop again daily and the antics happening around there are on a different planet to anything I've seen before. Seriously aggressive begging and a constant game of cat and mouse going on with the Gards. Miles worse than it used to be.

It's plain as day to me who the main guy is and he has several runners dealing drugs quite blatantly while he hangs around the same spot. It's amazing to me that they can't shut his operation down.

I think I know who you mean, he often has a child in a buggy with him.

DuckHook

The Hill Billy wrote: »

Was it drug addicts that did this? How do you know? Or are you just making a massive sweeping generalisation because - well, fnck it - they are an easy target to blame this on?

An easy target to blame for crime levels in the areas they congregate in because it's a fact. Obviously in your opinion they are some misunderstood subculture and need extra vital services and tax money allocated to help their plight?

I for one am sick to the back teeth of having to walk around zombie like creatures in the city centre that give not one **** for the help they get or the city around them.

Totally Tropical

The Hill Billy wrote: »

Was it drug addicts that did this? How do you know? Or are you just making a massive sweeping generalisation because - well, fnck it - they are an easy target to blame this on?

I suppose drug addicts are an easy target because when a heroin addict is desperate for a fix then they will do anything to get the money to pay for it.When you are a drug addict you turn to things like crime to pay for your habbit and drug addicts would be responsible for quite a substantial proportion of crime in Dublin city centre and also in more recent years Cork and Limerick.So it's understandable if drug addicts are as you put it an easy target for the blame.If the cap fits wear it.

arybvtcw0eolkf

The Hill Billy wrote: »

Was it drug addicts that did this? How do you know? Or are you just making a massive sweeping generalisation because - well, fnck it - they are an easy target to blame this on?

With all due respects I think you're way out of touch with the conditions in Dublin city center these days.

From the junction of North Earl Street/Henry St (GPO) to O'Connell Bridge is a cesspit of junkies, dealers, beggars, pickpockets/snatchers inter mingling with tourists and locals a like.. The place is crawling with filth.

SimonQuinlank

carlmango11 wrote: »

Yeah I'm sure all those salt-of-the-earth junkies were working 9-5 back in the day.

I was thinking more of things like less demand on services addicts use/more well resourced services because the country wasn't broke yet.Less homeless folk in general, and fewer people being housed in B+B's in the inner city also.

markesmith

I've lived in the Bronx, hung out in Brixton, been in the wrong parts of Paris, Berlin, Rome and Istanbul.

Only place I've ever been jumped is O'Connell Street.

The area is a kip, and until we admit this and pressure the politicos, nothing will get done.

Enough of this "Ah sure every city has its rough areas"!

The Hill Billy

sabat wrote: »

The chances of a particular group of people having a row at that particular spot at that particular time being junkies are probably about 98%. You don't even live in Dublin if memory serves.

You are right - I live in Switzerland now. But I've worked & socialised in Dublin for over 25 years. I know exactly what its like.

DuckHook wrote: »

An easy target to blame for crime levels in the areas they congregate in because it's a fact. Obviously in your opinion they are some misunderstood subculture and need extra vital services and tax money allocated to help their plight?

I'm not some bleeding-heart liberal - far from it. But there are plenty of scumbags up to no good in that area. You don't need to take drugs to be a prick & kick the shit out of a girl.

Charlee Grumpy Seashore wrote: »

With all due respects I think you're way out of touch with the conditions in Dublin city center these days.

From the junction of North Earl Street/Henry St (GPO) to O'Connell Bridge is a cesspit of junkies, dealers, beggars, pickpockets/snatchers inter mingling with tourists and locals a like.. The place is crawling with filth.

I'm not out of touch. I agree - 'cesspit' is a great description. And I think you've proved my point - it is not just drug addicts causing the problem, it is also "dealers, beggars, pickpockets/snatchers".
And with all due respect also, but you've changed your tune. If memory serves me correct it was not too long ago that you were calling people out over gross generalisations about drug addicts in the area.

@All: Don't get me wrong - I think that O'Connell Street is in dire need of cleaning up. But it is not just the junkies that are the problem. There are all manner & class of assholes that have dragged the area down to the state that it is currently in. I just thought it unfair to blame the whole sorry lot on one particular group & especially finger-point at them for this specific incident.

Maysa07

markesmith wrote: »

I've lived in the Bronx, hung out in Brixton, been in the wrong parts of Paris, Berlin, Rome and Istanbul.

Only place I've ever been jumped is O'Connell Street.

The area is a kip, and until we admit this and pressure the politicos, nothing will get done.

Enough of this "Ah sure every city has its rough areas"!

100% agree. I was in O'Connell street a few weeks back with my wife and 6 yo.We where heading for Clerys but was closed so decided to walk up towards parnell street. We then saw one guy resisting arrest shouting all sorts of names at two female garda trying to put handcuffs on him while the rest of his scumbags mate looked on. It wasn't a pleasant experience for my daughter to witness. Can't help but feel on edge when in that area, Dublin City is a kip.

Gmol

hfallada wrote: »

O Connell st has improved a lot in recent years. We are shocked at this, but horrific stuff like this was common 10 years ago. The drug treatment centres need to be moved out of the city. Do thousands of heroin addicts really need to go to town to get treatment? No, they should have the services in their suburb.

I think grafton street has gone down hill. There is a lot of addicts there that you would have never seen before. That's more shocking than o Connell street

Addictstown

mattjack

hfallada wrote: »

O Connell st has improved a lot in recent years. We are shocked at this, but horrific stuff like this was common 10 years ago. The drug treatment centres need to be moved out of the city. Do thousands of heroin addicts really need to go to town to get treatment? No, they should have the services in their suburb.

I think grafton street has gone down hill. There is a lot of addicts there that you would have never seen before. That's more shocking than o Connell street

Ideally your treatment should be in your area , but the vast amount of services provided for people in addiction are in the city.

Think of the broader picture , an addict just doesnt need his drug treatment ... if he's homeless his hostel is in the city along with his methadone clinic aswell as needle exchanges.His psychiatric care is in the city too along with specialised medical and dental care and respite services.

This is all without thinking about drop in centres , food services and a myriad of other services including counselling drug CE schemes etc..

Muahahaha

Sir Humphrey Appleby wrote: »

Most of them live in the city thus the services are provided in the city.

Not so sure about that, at least a Dublin Bus driver before told me that the 78a route is nicknamed 'The Junkie Express' because it serves areas with chronic heroine problems and ferries them into town every morning to get their methadone fix. That was a few years ago now but the way he told it was that a majority of people on the bus were junkies travelling on a free travel pass. He said they were grand in the mornings, all polite and everything but pure grief going back home in the evenings.

Anyway regardless of where they lived city centre methadone clinics are not a good idea. I work right beside the Pearse St one and in the last 6 months alone have witnessed several on street brawls.. One fight happened right in front of a bus load of 50 tourists who were waiting to get their bags and check into the Trinity Capital Hotel. Junkies were knocking lumps out of each other right there on the pavement whilst tourists scrambled back onto the bus and into the hotel for safety. The fact that all this occurred less than 30 metres from Pearse St Garda station showed me that they really couldn't give a toss. 50 tourists all gone back home telling their friends and family that Dublin is a dangerous place and that the fighting Irish stereotype is true. I felt embarrassed to be a local that day, the authorities really need to get a grip on this problem.

EyeSight

mattjack wrote: »

Ideally your treatment should be in your area , but the vast amount of services provided for people in addiction are in the city.

Think of the broader picture , an addict just doesnt need his drug treatment ... if he's homeless his hostel is in the city along with his methadone clinic aswell as needle exchanges.His psychiatric care is in the city too along with specialised medical and dental care and respite services.

This is all without thinking about drop in centres , food services and a myriad of other services including counselling drug CE schemes etc..

I see your point. But they can be located in the outskirts of the city. Not the main street! They all get free travel for them(and a friend ). Why not at least spread them out in the city so that there wouldn't be much of a concentration? God forbid they need to walk there. *Not an attack on your post but the planners*

I wouldn't mind the treatment centers as much if there was a zero tolerance attitude to crime by the police in the area. Right now it's 99% tolerance...

I am including the scumbags who aren't junkies and see this lawless place as a hang out zone

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Muahahaha wrote: »

Not so sure about that, at least a Dublin Bus driver before told me that the 78a route is nicknamed 'The Junkie Express' because it serves areas with chronic heroine problems and ferries them into town every morning to get their methadone fix. That was a few years ago now but the way he told it was that a majority of people on the bus were junkies travelling on a free travel pass. He said they were grand in the mornings, all polite and everything but pure grief going back home in the evenings.

Anyway regardless of where they lived city centre methadone clinics are not a good idea. I work right beside the Pearse St one and in the last 6 months alone have witnessed several on street brawls.. One fight happened right in front of a bus load of 50 tourists who were waiting to get their bags and check into the Trinity Capital Hotel. Junkies were knocking lumps out of each other right there on the pavement whilst tourists scrambled back onto the bus and into the hotel for safety. The fact that all this occurred less than 30 metres from Pearse St Garda station showed me that they really couldn't give a toss. 50 tourists all gone back home telling their friends and family that Dublin is a dangerous place and that the fighting Irish stereotype is true. I felt embarrassed to be a local that day, the authorities really need to get a grip on this problem.

Methadone clinics are best placed in the areas in which the addicts live imo.

Obviously street brawls and anti-social behaviour should not be tolerated, but the scenes you describe are replicated outside pubs all over the city on a daily basis.

As for the old 78A, yup I travelled on it daily for over two years and it was a lunatic asylum on wheels, with drugs including heroin being smoked on it all the time. Thing is , most of those on it were addicts who were not on methadone. The figures for those receiving methadone treatment versus the number of addicts are quite stark, as can be evidenced from various reports including Merchants Quay.

Getting back to O'Connell Street, it should be clear to everyone that a much greater Garda presence is needed there and in the surrounding areas to combat the thugs, snatchers, addicts, and general ne'er do wells that are a blight on the area.

SebBerkovich

I just can't walk down O'Connell Street any more, as well as feeling quite unsafe - it's too depressing.

Personally i'm all for just leaving the street to it's own devices, take out any reason the average dubliner might want to go there, move in all the addict services and open up a few more McDonalds'.... add a perimeter fence... That might leave us with a bit of an Escape from New York scenario but it'll contain the junkies, which would be great.... until someone has to go in there to rescue Michael D. Higgins...

i think i digressed a bit there... but my point is this - Dublin is always going to have junkies shouldn't we just actively cultivate a part of the city where they can exist and do the least damage. and why not O'Connell Street.

Ole Rodrigo

SebBerkovich wrote: »

I just can't walk down O'Connell Street any more, as well as feeling quite unsafe - it's too depressing.

Personally i'm all for just leaving the street to it's own devices, take out any reason the average dubliner might want to go there, move in all the addict services and open up a few more McDonalds'.... add a perimeter fence... That might leave us with a bit of an Escape from New York scenario but it'll contain the junkies, which would be great.... until someone has to go in there to rescue Michael D. Higgins...

i think i digressed a bit there... but my point is this - Dublin is always going to have junkies shouldn't we just actively cultivate a part of the city where they can exist and do the least damage. and why not O'Connell Street.

O'Connell street has a lot of potential.

If this problem were to be tackled properly, the HSE would outsource the issue, all drug addicts would be treated in one place where all necessary services would be located. Constitutional rights to liberty should not trump citizen responsibility in this instance. If they don't co-operate with rehab and obeying the law, tough love is the only solution. Nobody has the right to hang around in a state of half life/ half death, selling drugs with impunity and intimidating the general public. Not to mention depressing them. The current solution is only sustaining their behaviour.

If we look at the way asylum seekers are handled, I don't see why something similar can't be done for junkies - one roof where all services are located until their case is handled ( not to imply they are both the same sort of problem ). Also, f you look at how other cities have handled it, they seem to have more success - Copenhagen, Vancouver etc.

arybvtcw0eolkf

The Hill Billy wrote: »

And with all due respect also, but you've changed your tune. If memory serves me correct it was not too long ago that you were calling people out over gross generalisations about drug addicts in the area.

I doubt that.

Lux23

I would agree that putting them all in the one place could work, but O'Connell is a no go, it's too important to transport in Dublin.

There's empty industrial estates close enough to the city, they should be used.

The_B_Man

Would there be any way to try move away from having anybody living in the city centre?
Like for example, anyone getting social housing in the flats in town, be put on the list for housing in the suburbs somewhere instead, and just leave the ones in the city empty for a year. Do them up then, and convert them to apartments for professionals working close by. It would save a lot of this hassle and violence, and cut down on traffic as people would be walking to work.

Ole Rodrigo

The_B_Man wrote: »

Would there be any way to try move away from having anybody living in the city centre?
Like for example, anyone getting social housing in the flats in town, be put on the list for housing in the suburbs somewhere instead, and just leave the ones in the city empty for a year. Do them up then, and convert them to apartments for professionals working close by. It would save a lot of this hassle and violence, and cut down on traffic as people would be walking to work.

You mean like they did in Paris?

Mixed use - both council and privately owned - has proven the most successful model. Besides this is not a council housing problem, its a drug problem. Unfortunately for residents of council housing, junkies and ner-do-wells have the same address, so they get tarnished with that brush.

I'd also question the label of ' professional ' for many office drone jobs but thats for another thread. Half my office are ranters on boards :pac:

Fukuyama

Charlee Grumpy Seashore wrote: »

With all due respects I think you're way out of touch with the conditions in Dublin city center these days.

From the junction of North Earl Street/Henry St (GPO) to O'Connell Bridge is a cesspit of junkies, dealers, beggars, pickpockets/snatchers inter mingling with tourists and locals a like.. The place is crawling with filth.

Well put.

Have found myself on abbey street quite a bit recently. I notice a new Centra has opened up in what used to be the CIE offices. It looks really clean and new. Yet the first thing I thought when I was it was "how long until the place is in bits".

Any of the side streets off O'Connell (and the back alleys) are crawling with people shooting heroin, dealing and living rough.

Business in the area suffer from the constant hassle from these lowlifes. They have to employ two security guards for each store. Who's paying for that? We are. It's tacked onto the prices.

I feel slightly ashamed when tourists are taking snaps of the GPO, Jim Larkin statue etc.. and are getting hassled by zombies.

One part of me wants to overhaul the area. But it'd be in bits again within a few years.

SimonQuinlank

The_B_Man wrote: »

Would there be any way to try move away from having anybody living in the city centre?
Like for example, anyone getting social housing in the flats in town, be put on the list for housing in the suburbs somewhere instead, and just leave the ones in the city empty for a year. Do them up then, and convert them to apartments for professionals working close by. It would save a lot of this hassle and violence, and cut down on traffic as people would be walking to work.

Just turf less well off people out of sight to the suburbs like they did back in the 60's and 70's with areas like Ballymun,Tallaght,Clondalkin etc?worked well the first time sure.

Fukuyama

The Hill Billy wrote: »

I'm not out of touch. I agree - 'cesspit' is a great description. And I think you've proved my point - it is not just drug addicts causing the problem, it is also "dealers, beggars, pickpockets/snatchers".

This isn't Oliver Twist. The guys snatching bags/phones, the guys begging and the guys dealing - are all hooked on heroin. The petty crime is done as a way to fund their addiction and is a vicious cycle.

I get the 122 a fair few time a week outside the Londis on O'Connell Street - just at the junction with Abbey Street. I'd say at least once a week I see some kind of deal being done in a little huddle. It's plain as day. And that's just me barely paying attention any more. I'm sure if I stood in place for an hour and really watched I'd see all kinds.

When garda start arriving onto the street in the luminous jackets they all shuffle over O'Connell street bridge to D'Olier street and hang around the FAS office there.

May god help you if your pull out a bit of change for the bus. They'll be all over you like a flock of pigeons. "Can I have a euro mate?" ... "Any spare change buddy?" :rolleyes: :mad:

Cienciano

I haven't been on O'Connell Street in a long time (7-8 years, but about a month ago I had to walk down it in the evening (about 7pm on a saturday). Bloody hell, don't think I ever saw such a collection of scumbags. I needed money, but it was the first time ever in Dublin I decided not to use an ATM because of the people about.

mattjack

ror_74 wrote: »

O'Connell street has a lot of potential.

If this problem were to be tackled properly, the HSE would outsource the issue, all drug addicts would be treated in one place where all necessary services would be located. Constitutional rights to liberty should not trump citizen responsibility in this instance. If they don't co-operate with rehab and obeying the law, tough love is the only solution. Nobody has the right to hang around in a state of half life/ half death, selling drugs with impunity and intimidating the general public. Not to mention depressing them. The current solution is only sustaining their behaviour.

If we look at the way asylum seekers are handled, I don't see why something similar can't be done for junkies - one roof where all services are located until their case is handled ( not to imply they are both the same sort of problem ). Also, f you look at how other cities have handled it, they seem to have more success - Copenhagen, Vancouver etc.

Are Copenhagen and Vancouver outsourced ?
you cant force people into rehab , what you could do though is look at the way we provide our services.

Ireland is one of the few western world countries that treats addiction and mental ill health as separate issues , most countries operate an integrated approach which I think you mean by "under the one roof",

However from start to finish for an addict to get completely clean takes quite a period of time starting with first getting onto a clinic , then stabilising , then reaching the target of between 30 to 40 mls of methadone no mean feat in itself.
From there an assessment , then offer of a bed and depending on the detox anything up to 17 weeks , after that two years minimum aftercare.
Achieving all this without a slip, illness,housing or legal issues is quite difficult.
Im not sure you could outsource this if you in mind private treatment comes in at about 10 grand I think for a six week treatment.


We also fail miserably in our methadone provision , Ireland is comfortable stabilising people on methadone and leaving it at that without a thought regarding a detox off it.We have in and around 24000 people on heroin,stabilised on methadone and then the few trying to detox.
Our state likes methadone , its a relatively cheap way of managing a problem , albeit poorly.

Im being a bit disingenious here ... I work in these types of services.

Uaru

The Hill Billy wrote: »

@All: Don't get me wrong - I think that O'Connell Street is in dire need of cleaning up. But it is not just the junkies that are the problem. There are all manner & class of assholes that have dragged the area down to the state that it is currently in. I just thought it unfair to blame the whole sorry lot on one particular group & especially finger-point at them for this specific incident.

The dealers are there because the junkies are there, the junkies are there because the clinics are there. The crimes against the public are committed by the junkies. Move the clinics and the problem goes away, to somewhere else anyway.

Most of these degenerates don't live around the city. I live between several blocks of inner city flats on the south side and I rarely see junkies going in and out. Most are coming in from the suburbs.

Lux23

But if they getting treatment in a clinic, why are they buying drugs on the street?

Fukuyama

Lux23 wrote: »

But if they getting treatment in a clinic, why are they buying drugs on the street?

Having a 'drug problem' brings with it many others. Poverty, societal outcast etc.. etc...

I guess they have a little sub-culture community type thing. A lot of them will know every other junkie in town. I find that when a junkie gets onto a bus I'm on he'll instantly recognise the other junkies on the bus. They've better social lives than most people!

A lot of them will trade their methadone for cash... or simply retain the connections for petty crime reasons (pushing, stealing etc...).

So, being a junkie is as much about the little gangs they form in town as it is about getting out of their bin on heroin.

Lux23

Well how would moving the treatment centres help? It's not like they are there all day.

Ole Rodrigo

mattjack wrote: »

Are Copenhagen and Vancouver outsourced ?
you cant force people into rehab , what you could do though is look at the way we provide our services.

Ireland is one of the few western world countries that treats addiction and mental ill health as separate issues , most countries operate an integrated approach which I think you mean by "under the one roof",

However from start to finish for an addict to get completely clean takes quite a period of time starting with first getting onto a clinic , then stabilising , then reaching the target of between 30 to 40 mls of methadone no mean feat in itself.
From there an assessment , then offer of a bed and depending on the detox anything up to 17 weeks , after that two years minimum aftercare.
Achieving all this without a slip, illness,housing or legal issues is quite difficult.
Im not sure you could outsource this if you in mind private treatment comes in at about 10 grand I think for a six week treatment.


We also fail miserably in our methadone provision , Ireland is comfortable stabilising people on methadone and leaving it at that without a thought regarding a detox off it.We have in and around 24000 people on heroin,stabilised on methadone and then the few trying to detox.
Our state likes methadone , its a relatively cheap way of managing a problem , albeit poorly.

Im being a bit disingenious here ... I work in these types of services.

What I mean by under one roof is one location where all the services that they spend their day wandering around to are located - mental health, addiction, food, shelter, work rehabilitation etc. Why couldnt it all be in once treatment centre? ...for the worst cases anyway. Is 24 000 a correct figure ? Thats incredible.

I dont know, am just throwing out a few ideas. I'd be surprised of HSE beauracracy wasn't part of the problem. That process you describe for addiction treatment sounds as bad as the addiction itself, they dont have a hope really.

Hilly Bill

Lux23 wrote: »

I would agree that putting them all in the one place could work, but O'Connell is a no go, it's too important to transport in Dublin.

There's empty industrial estates close enough to the city, they should be used.

Spike Island and let them fend for themselves.

Walking down Talbot street is like being in a Zombie film.

Uriel.

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Spike Island and let them fend for themselves.

Walking down Talbot street is like being in a Zombie film.

Maybe open up a mew treatment centre at the bottom of the liffey? 15 years working in the city day in day out, and honestly I feel it is much worse now than it ever was in that period.

I even tend to use atms now that are in doors (shops etc bank of Ireland indoors on ocs etc). Madness really that there's not more of clampdown. But given our judicial system, prison system and general laziness to do anything I fear it'll only get worse. Imagine what the place would be like if we had an underground metro station on the street

Heartland

Been back living in Dublin City Centre now for the past 6 months having been away for about 8 years (I'm from DCC) and it is definitely worse than I've ever known. Late 80's was rough but this is something else. Never seen so many beggars and homeless people (and I'm only talking indigenous Irish). And the aggressive begging is a new phenomenon. It was never as 'in your face' before. I still have no problem using ATM's anywhere but if I wasn't a fit(ish), young(ish) man I'm not sure I'd be so confident.