Newbridge Credit Union Bailed Out

bear1

So PTSB get's 54 million before it has even taken over the CU whilst again us taxpayers need to fork out the money.
I was seriously of the idea that the Credit Union's accounts were audited every year but hey ho doesn't matter as we will pay no problem.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/newbridge-credit-union-in-54m-bailout-29743289.html

the groutch

fat load of use that €423 per hour "special manager" was.

Grimreaper666

.............and for everything else, there's the Irish tax payer......

SEPT 23 1989

capitalism

bear1

There was a thread recently on if we learnt anything from our time under the troika.... I'd answer a simple NO to that.

kupus

Whats there to learn. Only that average joe is shafted yet again

hansfrei

€54m to be spent on what? An empty building? Some bad debts?


That Noonan is up to his old tricks.

ebbsy

Its like a dog with 2 legs.

kneemos

I can't think of any metaphors or cliches so I can't comment.

bear1

Not so much a metaphor or clichee but how about "****ing useless?"

kneemos

Cu's were never intended for multi million Euro property deals.They're mostly run by amateurs afaik.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Well the crowd running this were certainly professional clowns. ****ing joke. Heard on the radio this morning the old chestnut that if the credit union falls others will fall and then the banks will fall and then it'll basically be mad max. Such total bollox.

Amirani

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Well the crowd running this were certainly professional clowns. ****ing joke. Heard on the radio this morning the old chestnut that if the credit union falls others will fall and then the banks will fall and then it'll basically be mad max. Such total bollox.

Why bollocks?

Tiddlypeeps

Almost didn't believe if when I heard it on the radio this morning.

I honestly can't see the problem with letting a ****ty little SME (and that's pretty much all it is) in the middle of f*ck nowhere fail. Doesn't make sense to me.

Leslie91

kneemos wrote: »

Cu's were never intended for multi million Euro property deals.They're mostly run by amateurs afaik.

Unlike the banks of course.....

(which were/are? run by the greediest shower of w£"$%^s in the history or Ireland)

(apart from the politicians)

zl1whqvjs75cdy

54 million is a tiny sum relative to the overall size of the Irish banking system. Now there might have been other reasons to save it, keeping faith of the public in the credit union movement being one of them. I do think credit unions play a very important part in the overall structure of the Irish credit system. The deposits of Joe Bloggs are still guarenteed by the government so they would have been ok (I think average savings in NBCU were ~4200) so who exactly is benefiting from this bail out. It has also set a precedent now that any credit union which is struggling can be bailed out, how much could that amount to? And how much misery will that lump on the taxpayer? Where exactly is this 54 million going to come from?

Perhaps my above post was a bit aggressive, but this piss poor management of financial institutions infuriates me.

bear1

The Troika have only just left last week and already another institution has been bailed out. Boils my blood this complete and utter crap!

Tiddlypeeps

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

54 million is a tiny sum relative to the overall size of the Irish banking system. Now there might have been other reasons to save it, keeping faith of the public in the credit union movement being one of them. I do think credit unions play a very important part in the overall structure of the Irish credit system. The deposits of Joe Bloggs are still guarenteed by the government so they would have been ok (I think average savings in NBCU were ~4200) so who exactly is benefiting from this bail out. It has also set a precedent now that any credit union which is struggling can be bailed out, how much could that amount to? And how much misery will that lump on the taxpayer? Where exactly is this 54 million going to come from?

Perhaps my above post was a bit aggressive, but this piss poor management of financial institutions infuriates me.

Why play it safe when you have everything to gain an nothing to lose. The continued bailing out of Irish financial institutions is only going to reinforce that mentality.

MadsL

Newbridge Credit Union.

Too big to fail, sure you have to bail it out, not to do so would cause systemic banking credit union failure.

I await the next in line Credit Union (and there are plenty) to get a handout bailout.

If you want some scary bedtime reading...

4.5.6 The Commission recommends that the stabilisation actions carried out
by the Central Bank will include, among other things, such actions as:
· The provision of technical and financial advice;
· Mandatory changes to governance structures of the credit union;
· Changes to the business, operations, systems and processes
within the credit union;
· Capitalisation of the credit union.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1014/creditunionreport.pdf

It is amazing how certain types of businesses in Ireland don't appear to have to follow the same fate as thousands of privately owned ones.

Anyone

MadsL wrote: »

Newbridge Credit Union.

Too big to fail, sure you have to bail it out, not to do so would cause systemic banking credit union failure.

I await the next in line Credit Union (and there are plenty) to get a handout bailout.

If you want some scary bedtime reading...



http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1014/creditunionreport.pdf

It is amazing how certain types of businesses in Ireland don't appear to have to follow the same fate as thousands of privately owned ones.

Credit Unions are privately owned business's.

peppa 1986

Is somebody's head going to roll for the way this credit union was run. Surely somebody needs to be accountable...giving out development loans is and never was the role of the credit union. Why was the credit union allowed to do this...accountability..audit roles...regulation..why was this allowed to happen

MadsL

Anyone wrote: »

Credit Unions are privately owned business's.

I didn't mean to imply they were not.

But fine. Let them go bust then like thousands of other businesses.

Anyone going to be fired over this fiasco? Oh wait, this is Ireland.

MadsL

peppa 1986 wrote: »

Is somebody's head going to roll for the way this credit union was run. Surely somebody needs to be accountable...giving out development loans is and never was the role of the credit union. Why was the credit union allowed to do this...accountability..audit roles...regulation..why was this allowed to happen

You should meet some of the people on the boards of Credit Unions. I had quite a few professional dealings with Credit union staff and board members - whilst some are highly professional - top 20% or so. Some are staffed with biddies and antiquated IT systems if not books. The boards are like something you would find running a small towns GAA club.

Many Credit Unions simply do not have the business skills to deal with what has happened in Ireland, and adapt. Even the banks couldn't adapt to changing markets fast enough, some credit unions are having problems just adapting to 21st century banking.

MadsL

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Anyone going to be fired over this fiasco? Oh wait, this is Ireland.

You mean fire the volunteers? How do you do that?

MadsL

MadsL wrote: »

You mean fire the volunteers? How do you do that?

What? I think you're confused.

Raging_Ninja

Like it ornot credit unions are not like other businesses.

If a shop goes bust, ghe people who work there lode their jobs and creditots may not get paid back. However thats where it ends.

If a credut union goes down, hundreds of people lose their life savings.

If the govt didn't step in to guarantee the deposits, there would have been a run on it. Then other people would look st their credit unions and worry that their savings weren't safe. People would withdraw their savings.

It wouldn't need to be everyone with a deposit, and wouldn't need to be most. But eventually someboy would be told that they can't withdraw their savings because the CU doesn't have ghe cash in hand. And the instant that happens and is reported, that is when you have a crisis.

You can rubbish the idea all you want, but that is how the banks collapsed in the wall street crash.

MadsL

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

What? I think you're confused.

Many credit unions have volunteer boards.

MadsL

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

Like it ornot credit unions are not like other businesses.

If a shop goes bust, ghe people who work there lode their jobs and creditots may not get paid back. However thats where it ends.

If a credut union goes down, hundreds of people lose their life savings.

If the govt didn't step in to guarantee the deposits, there would have been a run on it. Then other people would look st their credit unions and worry that their savings weren't safe. People would withdraw their savings.

It wouldn't need to be everyone with a deposit, and wouldn't need to be most. But eventually someboy would be told that they can't withdraw their savings because the CU doesn't have ghe cash in hand. And the instant that happens and is reported, that is when you have a crisis.

You can rubbish the idea all you want, but that is how the banks collapsed in the wall street crash.

Or maybe people should check the financials of any institution before trusting their money to it. Just a thought.

Raging_Ninja

MadsL wrote: »

Or maybe people should check the financials of any institution before trusting their money to it. Just a thought.

Most people wouldn't, and even if they did a lot wouldn't understand it.

MadsL

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

Most people wouldn't, and even if they did a lot wouldn't understand it.

If only there were something like, I dunno, a financial regulator or something to do it for you...

Uberbeamerman

Its getting harder and harder to look at the tricolour with any sense of pride. Same old bullcrap is going to keep happening time and time again.

Raging_Ninja

MadsL wrote: »

If only there were something like, I dunno, a financial regulator or something to do it for you...

There is, look what happened.

MadsL

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

There is, look what happened.

Kinda my point. Your sarcasm meter needs calibrating.

Raging_Ninja

MadsL wrote: »

Kinda my point. Your sarcasm meter needs calibrating.

I think you misunderstood my original post. I was saying it was a good thing that the govt stepped in and explained the consequences of what could have happened if it hadn't.

MadsL

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

I think you misunderstood my original argument. I was saying it was a good thing that the govt stepped in and explained the consequences of what could have happened if it hadn't.

What consequences? As far as I am aware aren't the deposits of the members guaranteed up to €100,000.

You would be an utter fool to have more than €100,000 lodged with a CU.

Raging_Ninja

MadsL wrote: »

What consequences? As far as I am aware aren't the deposits of the members guaranteed up to €100,000.

You would be an utter fool to have more than €100,000 lodged with a CU.

Its only guaranteed so long as the govt still has money. If there was a proper run on the banks how long would the guarantee be honoured? How long would people be waiting to get their savings?

Wompa1

peppa 1986 wrote: »

Is somebody's head going to roll for the way this credit union was run. Surely somebody needs to be accountable...giving out development loans is and never was the role of the credit union. Why was the credit union allowed to do this...accountability..audit roles...regulation..why was this allowed to happen

Is that you Mr. Potter? Why George Bailey is a good man! Without him I wouldn't have been able to afford my mansion in Naas. And what about you Peppa, would you be able to afford that Lexus if it wasn't for George Bailey?

And his brother was a war hero to cap it all off.

MadsL

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

Its only guaranteed so long as the govt still has money. If there was a proper run on the banks how long would the guarantee be honoured? How long would people be waiting to get their savings?

So €54m now, then the next one fails, and the next...there are 408 CUs in Ireland. Tick Tock.

Grandeeod

MadsL wrote: »

So €54m now, then the next one fails, and the next...there are 408 CUs in Ireland. Tick Tock.

I suspect there's a few more ready to be caught out and I'd keep an eye on CUDA members more so than ILCU members.

NBCU was rather unique and not in a good way as we have found out. From my own experience during the good times, the had a vicious appetite for growth and power. Considering the board was voluntary, this made it a little scary. The new premises were built in the 90s on this upward growth trend. It was up there with the most impressive CU buildings that I've ever been in. So I wasn't surprised to see a massive extension being added to it. IMO it wasn't a status symbol for the Credit Union, it was a status symbol for some members of the board and perhaps the manager too. Many members saw no reason for it. There was no reason for it as far as I could see. The original building was more than ample.

An arrogance crept into that Credit Union and effectively it was becoming a bank, but being run by amateurs. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that it was becoming a dangerous renegade within financial circles. As far back as 2003 it was known that they were shifting some big big loans out. Some of its AGMs were very lively and there was always an air of them and us between the board and members. I know this sounds a little juvenile, but the phrase I would assert to NBCUs board of directors is powertrip. That is based on my dealings with them as a member and business person at the time. I ceased to be a member in early 2008.

In 2003 I made a complaint to the then Registrar of CUs in the Financial Regulators office. He was useless, absolutely useless. In one way I'm glad to see the place has run aground, but I feel for members. I rather see the real truth come out about how that board of directors ran the place.

Clandestine

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

capitalism

This is the governments fault, not the fault of capitalism.

bear1

Does anyone see a theme here?
A financial institution has gone to ****e, the "financial regulator" decides to safeguard the institution and the public protest...
Are we back in 2008???

K-9

bear1 wrote: »

Does anyone see a theme here?
A financial institution has gone to ****e, the "financial regulator" decides to safeguard the institution and the public protest...
Are we back in 2008???

I suppose if they let it go people would rightfully be pointing out that Anglo, AIB and the rest were saved.

I haven't read much detail on this but if Grandeeod is correct on how the CU was run, I can't imagine that much benefit in propping it up. I suppose it's a perfect example of how, even supposedly small financial institutions lost the run of themselves.

I can remember warnings about Credit Unions loaning out sums way above €20,000, which IIRC was considered the maximum CU loan limit back in the day before people lost the run of themselves. The Central Bank warned the CU's and banks way back around 1998 about people getting CU loans to finance house deposits, nobody seemed to give a bollicks.

keeponhurling

A badly run business?
Here, have 54 million taxpayers money.

Wonder did the board of Newbirdge Credit Union say to the governent "you have the moolah, we want it, so give it to us. When will you start doing this?"

Well, that was the starting point of the conversation.

NuckingFacker

€3m fcuking euro in one loan. From a Credit union?? Serious shenanigans must have been going on IMO. What was that for? A second car? I thought the ethos of a credit union was small credit for members? Was the lads running it getting tips from fingers?

driver02

The people responsible here are the board of directors, supervisory committee and manager they are the people who got it wrong and badly wrong.
Saw in the News the size of the building complete nonsense it say a lot about the directors of that place.

MadsL

K-9 wrote: »

I suppose if they let it go people would rightfully be pointing out that Anglo, AIB and the rest were saved.

Right at the start of the banking crisis Postbank were allowed to quietly die...

The Govt missed a perfect opportunity to support a small nationally networked operation, with transfers of performing loans and small business credit, plus stimulus money and simply let Anglo et al go feck themselves.

Instead Postbank was allowed to fail.

tempura

I wonder what Imelda May thinks of the whole thing.

MadsL

This will haunt Gilmore I think..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZlposIyfTM

K-9

MadsL wrote: »

Right at the start of the banking crisis Postbank were allowed to quietly die...

The Govt missed a perfect opportunity to support a small nationally networked operation, with transfers of performing loans and small business credit, plus stimulus money and simply let Anglo et al go feck themselves.

Instead Postbank was allowed to fail.

Aye, you were on about them before. It was foreign owned, paying An Post money to use their network, can't really see how your idea would work, transferring performing loans and providing small businesses credit.

MadsL

K-9 wrote: »

Aye, you were on about them before. It was foreign owned, paying An Post money to use their network, can't really see how your idea would work, transferring performing loans and providing small businesses credit.

It was allowed to fail though...