Ireland vs Australia Build-up Thread

ScissorPaperRock

I thought I'd put together a quick build-up thread ahead of the team announcements for the Ireland - Australia game later this week.

What can we expect?

If Australia have finally found their mojo and manage to maintain some consistency, then our defence will need to focus on containing Nick "The Honey Badger" Cummins and Israel Folau. Loose kicking and passiveness in defence will certainly be punished by these wingers. Genia and Cooper seem to have found some form too, and overall the Aussie backs have a nice balance between creativity and power. The highlights video below shows what we'll be looking to avoid.

Unfortunately we don't have Stephen Ferris to wrap up little Genia like he did in the RWC, but between POM, SOB and Heaslip, we should be competitive in the battle of the backrows. It's likely that the battle at the breakdown and our ability to pressure Genia at the ruck will be decisive. All in all, if the Aussies' performances this season are anything to go by, we should be looking to put pressure on them in the scrum and to capitalise from that. Both teams will be looking to compete in the lineout, but as long as Best continues with the kind of darts he offered in the Samoa game, our lineout ball should be safe in the hands of O'Connell and Toner, if he plays.

I think we might end up hoping that we can achieve forward dominance, and that it can compensate for what might be a lack of creativity at this level on the wings. We obviously need to see how things pan out in the course of the week, but as it stands it's possible that we could be without Bowe and Earls, and might therefore be starting with McFadden and Kearney. While there is no question of the work rate of the former, it's too early to say much about Kearney. It's fairly clear though that they don't pose the same threat as the Aussie wingers.

There are plenty of selection headaches ahead for Joe and co. If Sexton is fit surely he has to start ahead of Jackson; we need that creativity and assuredness. While Reddan looked snappy and did well for the last try in particular, his passing was not as accurate as Murray's, and it's hard to see him being dislodged from the starting 9 berth. With POC coming back in, who will partner him? Toner hasn't put a foot wrong, and McCarthy has yet to reach the doggedness that marked his showings during the AIs last year. The jury's out for me on this one. Other questions concern the bench - who comes in for Henry and Bowe (if he and Earls are out). Fitzgerald? Trimble? I'd probably go with Fitzgerald, if only for his defensive capabilities. Although I think D'Arcy had a better game than he's being given credit for, I'd like to see Marshall in at 12. He's a big physical 12 and offers a breaking threat that might be important if we're using our 5th or 6th choice wingers.

Prediction: I think this is going to be tight, but if it isn't, I fear that it will be because we haven't contained the Aussie backs. If we can front up defensively, and capitalise on what should be a dominant scrum, I think we should sneak a couple of tries. Ireland 20 - Wallabies 17. If it's anywhere near as tense as the RWC match, we're in for an exciting game! There's no question though that we'll need to up our performance substantially from last weekend.

SQUAD UPDATE 11/11: Chris Henry out for November, Jennings called up. Fitzgerald called up for Bowe, who has a bruised calf.

SQUAD UPDATE 12/11: Bowe confirmed to be in contention for Saturday

Edit: Oops! Didn't realise I posted this! Was going to do a little write-up and then post it, but then decided I was just skiving from work. I'll edit something in seeing that it's here now!

niallerm

i'd go with

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Fitz
4. POC
5. Touhy
6. POM
7. SOB
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. McFadden
12. Marshall
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney
16. Cronin
17. McGrath
18. Ross
19. Toner
20. McLaughlin
21. Reddan
22. Jackson
23. Kearney

ScissorPaperRock

niallerm wrote: »

i'd go with

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Fitz
4. POC
5. Touhy
6. POM
7. SOB
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. McFadden
12. Marshall
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney
16. Cronin
17. McGrath
18. Ross
19. Toner
20. McLaughlin
21. Reddan
22. Jackson
23. Kearney

I thought Ross had a good game against Samoa, so I'd probably start him again. I can't see Touhy coming in ahead of Toner and McCarthy. If Bowe and Earls are fit I think I'd probably go with:

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. POC
5. Toner
6. POM
7. SOB
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. Marshall
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney
16. Cronin
17. McGrath
18. Fitz
19. McCarthy
20. McLaughlin
21. Reddan
22. Jackson
23. McFadden

If Bowe and Earls are out I'd probably go with Fitzgerald on the bench with D. Kearney and McFadden starting.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Ross to start. Hopefully we can really turn the screw on the wallabies at scrum time. Our scrum was awesome last weekend, the timing of the drive was perfect

Australia couldn't even handle the veritable deckchair that is Mako Vunipola so god knows what they'll do with Cian Healy, with Jack McGrath waiting in the wings to turn the screw even further

JF100

Ladies: how good is Oz currently..?

Apart from being a distant third down under.. I didn't see them v Eng but they were "unlucky" apparently...
I think that means Oz blew it!
Are we good enough at this stage to beat this set of Convicts?

niallerm

with Bowe out, i'd start kearney probably... tempted by Fitzy though...that moustache

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

JF100 wrote: »

Ladies: how good is Oz currently..?

Apart from being a distant third down under.. I didn't see them v Eng but they were "unlucky" apparently...
I think that means Oz blew it!
Are we good enough at this stage to beat this set of Convicts?

Massively dangerous outwide and in the backs. They've a quality midfield to back up their backthree too

But their frontfive is still absolutely powderpuff . On paper our pack is much better and their backs are much better than ours, especially with injuries for both sides in those units

I think we'll win but it will require us learning lessons in our defensive patterns and our kicking. Our defense has to be tight from the get go, we can't have a repeat of Saturday in that regard because the Australians will punish us where the Samoans didn't

awec

JF100 wrote: »

Ladies: how good is Oz currently..?

Apart from being a distant third down under.. I didn't see them v Eng but they were "unlucky" apparently...
I think that means Oz blew it!
Are we good enough at this stage to beat this set of Convicts?

We are definitely good enough to beat them if we had a full squad to pick from.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

awec wrote: »

We are definitely good enough to beat them if we had a full squad to pick from.

But we don't have a full squad to pick from! I still think we're good enough to beat them

former legend

ScissorPaperRock wrote: »

This picture is both inspiring and depressing.

Swiwi.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Massively dangerous outwide and in the backs. They've a quality midfield to back up their backthree too

But their frontfive is still absolutely powderpuff . On paper our pack is much better and their backs are much better than ours, especially with injuries for both sides in those units

I think we'll win but it will require us learning lessons in our defensive patterns and our kicking. Our defense has to be tight from the get go, we can't have a repeat of Saturday in that regard because the Australians will punish us where the Samoans didn't

IMHO it all comes down to whether POM/SOB/JH can shut down Hooper/Genia/Cooper. Ireland have a better front 5, Australia have better backs overall, so I think the battle of the loose forwards is the winning and losing of the game.

Australia have strung 3 good games together, with the underachievement at Twickenham thrown in for bad measure. I'd favour them by about 10 points, and as such an Irish victory would be a great acheivement. Ireland need a better first 40 this week, because Australia won't fade like what Samoa did.

Tox56

SOB absolutely loves playing Australia, he's been immense for Ireland and the Lions whenever he's faced them, and Healy is exactly the same. Don't really know why, but if they (with POM thrown in for good measure) can reproduce their previous performances we're already halfway there. Get Sexton and Murray on the front foot and they'll control the game

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Tox56 wrote: »

SOB absolutely loves playing Australia, he's been immense for Ireland and the Lions whenever he's faced them, and Healy is exactly the same. Don't really know why, but if they (with POM thrown in for good measure) can reproduce their previous performances we're already halfway there. Get Sexton and Murray on the front foot and they'll control the game

Powder puff front five, thing of dreams for big ball carriers

molloyjh

Is it me or are the Aussies a little mentally frail? I didn't see the Italy game at the weekend but it struck me that when they played England they could have won that game even after the feet in touch fiasco. But once that went against them they retreated into their shell a bit. They seemed to think/realise that it wasn't their day and their performance dropped.

LeeroyJones

This is the fixture I fear the most, really. I say that because nobody is giving us a chance against NZ, the All Blacks are a shot to nothing according to most fans and pundits alike. Whether you agree with that or not, a loss to NZ won't add much untoward pressure onto the Irish camp from outside forces.

Whereas for the Oz fixture the line "We must beat Oz if we're to be taken seriously at all" has been thrown around and I get that, they're in a bit of a rut right now. However, just look at some of the players they have at their disposal alongside the fact they are coached by a very much respected McKenzie. He has them turning a bend right now and sides are picking them off but when these Ozzies get going they will be a serious force. A 50-20 thumping of the Italians may be just what they needed to kick on.

My head says we'll win but it's not convinced it'll be easy!

.ak

molloyjh wrote: »

Is it me or are the Aussies a little mentally frail? I didn't see the Italy game at the weekend but it struck me that when they played England they could have won that game even after the feet in touch fiasco. But once that went against them they retreated into their shell a bit. They seemed to think/realise that it wasn't their day and their performance dropped.

Completely. That's Australia's biggest problem - they don't know how to grind out wins, even with a squad of very, very talented players.

Swiwi.

.ak wrote: »

Completely. That's Australia's biggest problem - they don't know how to grind out wins, even with a squad of very, very talented players.

their scrum, *cough*

Shout Dust

Hard to know where Ireland are after last weekend, some good and some bad stuff, but the Samoans weren't up to much, and weren't as up for the game as I thought they'd be. But its refreshing watching Joe talk before and after the game, the more time he has with the team the better they'll be

Eponymous

ScissorPaperRock wrote: »

I thought Ross had a good game against Samoa, so I'd probably start him again. I can't see Touhy coming in ahead of Toner and McCarthy. If Bowe and Earls are fit I think I'd probably go with:

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Ross
4. POC
5. Toner
6. POM
7. SOB
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Earls
12. Marshall
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney
16. Cronin
17. McGrath
18. Fitz
19. McCarthy
20. McLaughlin
21. Reddan
22. Jackson
23. McFadden

If Bowe and Earls are out I'd probably go with Fitzgerald on the bench with D. Kearney and McFadden starting.

I'd go along with that selection, bar Jackson. I think Madigan and McFadden are the best options if you're going with two backs on the bench - both versatile and can play in multiple slots across the back line. I wouldn't be crying salty tears if it is PJ though, he did enough on Saturday to be there.

Hopefully lessons can be learned from the first half in particular in the Samoa game and the defence can improve. Once Ireland are alive to the threats out-wide, we're in with a very good shout for this, imho.

ScissorPaperRock

The battle of the halfbacks should be very interesting actually. While Cooper is capable of mixing the mesmerising with the miserable, he seems to be in good form, but I think Sexton is probably more adept at grabbing a game by the scruff of the neck and dictating play. It'll be a pity if we don't have the wingers to make the most of that.

Murray vs Genia will also be interesting. Will Murray's physicality count for much? Genia's snappier and more unpredictable, and obviously one of the best scrumhalves in the world, but this should be a good benchmark for Murray.

ScissorPaperRock

Eponymous wrote: »

I'd go along with that selection, bar Jackson. I think Madigan and McFadden are the best options if you're going with two backs on the bench - both versatile and can play in multiple slots across the back line. I wouldn't be crying salty tears if it is PJ though, he did enough on Saturday to be there.

Hopefully lessons can be learned from the first half in particular in the Samoa game and the defence can improve. Once Ireland are alive to the threats out-wide, we're in with a very good shout for this, imho.

I think you have to go with Jackson. We'll regret not doing so down the line if we have to make a choice in the Six Nations between two 10s with little international experience and possibly one of them with little game time under their belt even for their province.

At 21 Jackson is an obvious talent and we need to take whatever opportunities we can to invest in that and reward good performances.

stephen_n

It's interesting that Joe singled out bad kicking form hand in his interview, albeit from the entire backline, not Jackson individually but I still wonder how he views Jackson's performance with that in mind. Don't remember thinking on Saturday that Jackson's kicking from hand was poor, just that we were kicking too much ball away in general, only really remember one awful kick from Kearney, the rest wasn't very effective but Joe clearly had a different view.

sydthebeat

stephen_n wrote: »

...... Don't remember thinking on Saturday that Jackson's kicking from hand was poor, just that we were kicking too much ball away in general....

You seem to have an aversion against kicking the ball.
Accurate kicking can be a real and genuine tactic in both attack and defense.

ScissorPaperRock

Another potentially interesting battle this weekend:

molloyjh

D'Arcy without a shadow of a doubt. It's gone from woodcutter to God in the last week or so.

stephen_n

sydthebeat wrote: »

You seem to have an aversion against kicking the ball.
Accurate kicking can be a real and genuine tactic in both attack and defense.

I have an aversion to kicking the ball for the sake of it, kicking accurately and with purpose is hugely different than just kicking to put the ball up the field a bit. We were kicking the ball a lot on Saturday with neither a lot of height to get chasers underneath it, or with any huge accuracy to get in behind Samoa, although that did seem to be the intent, just not always executed well and was therefore wasteful. Joe seems to think so too apparently.

Buer

molloyjh wrote: »

D'Arcy without a shadow of a doubt. It's gone from woodcutter to God in the last week or so.

I believe a family of squirrels have commenced their hibernation within the confines of the beard and thus D'Arcy will keep it until February.

ssaye2

bilston

stephen_n wrote: »

It's interesting that Joe singled out bad kicking form hand in his interview, albeit from the entire backline, not Jackson individually but I still wonder how he views Jackson's performance with that in mind. Don't remember thinking on Saturday that Jackson's kicking from hand was poor, just that we were kicking too much ball away in general, only really remember one awful kick from Kearney, the rest wasn't very effective but Joe clearly had a different view.

To be honest I don't think it was Jackson who was the one who was kicking the ball away (perhaps one loose kick I can think off in the second half from him), we seemed to move the ball wide and then when it got to the wide channels one of the outside backs would kick it away.

Edit - I can remember a clearance kick in the second half as well when he didn't find touch from his 22. Not sure whether it was deliberate or not but usually you'd think your ten would be looking to find touch from there.

Valentine1

I'd expect an improvement from Ireland after the Samoa game but that isn't saying an awful lot as I thought we played fairly poorly for long spells last week.

We'll get the better of Australia in some areas but I think they will probably win it with a try in the last 15 mins.

An Irish Win is possible but think it would represent a massive achievement for this group of players and would require a best ever performance from 1 to 23.

bilston

Valentine1 wrote: »

I'd expect an improvement from Ireland after the Samoa game but that isn't saying an awful lot as I thought we played fairly poorly for long spells last week.

We'll get the better of Australia in some areas but I think they will probably win it with a try in the last 15 mins.

An Irish Win is possible but think it would represent a massive achievement for this group of players and would require a best ever performance from 1 to 23.

Hopefully the players are telling themselves that as it helps keeps standards high, but to be honest I don't think Ireland need a best ever performance to beat this Australian side.

Valentine1

bilston wrote: »

Hopefully the players are telling themselves that as it helps keeps standards high, but to be honest I don't think Ireland need a best ever performance to beat this Australian side.

Perhaps I'm being a little bombastic alright but I do think an element of playing out of one's skin would be necessary from some of the players for Ireland to win.

stephen_n

bilston wrote: »

To be honest I don't think it was Jackson who was the one who was kicking the ball away (perhaps one loose kick I can think off in the second half from him), we seemed to move the ball wide and then when it got to the wide channels one of the outside backs would kick it away.

Edit - I can remember a clearance kick in the second half as well when he didn't find touch from his 22. Not sure whether it was deliberate or not but usually you'd think your ten would be looking to find touch from there.

That's what I thought, but watching a match in the ground and on TV are two different perspectives.

sydthebeat

, if Australia play to their best and we play to our best I can still see us beating them.

However we need us to be at our best and we need the all blacks to be below par in order for us to beat them

ssaye2

from lf


Mick Kearney just on the radio. Earls defo out.

former legend

ssaye2 wrote: »

from lf


Mick Kearney just on the radio. Earls defo out.

No major surprise there really. Any update on Bowe?

stephen_n

Just said on Today FM Bowe is expected to be fit for the Australia game.

jamiedav2011

Valentine1 wrote: »

Perhaps I'm being a little bombastic alright but I do think an element of playing out of one's skin would be necessary from some of the players for Ireland to win.

It would be totally fantastic though.

sydthebeat

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

It would be totally fantastic though.

You two are being a little ro...o... mantic

.ak

former legend wrote: »

No major surprise there really. Any update on Bowe?

I'm kinda surprised. Thought he'd be fit for it. So fitz into the 23 or same again?

Fireball07

ssaye2 wrote: »

from lf


Mick Kearney just on the radio. Earls defo out.

former legend

stephen_n wrote: »

Just said on Today FM Bowe is expected to be fit for the Australia game.

RTE reporting he's a doubt...

ScissorPaperRock

former legend wrote: »

RTE reporting he's a doubt...

FFS

How the hell can we go from having too many wingers to choose from to being down to our 5th and 6th choice wingers?

If Fitz goes well in training I'd be happy to see him come into the starting side with McFadden. Henshaw also deserves consideration, but I wouldn't have huge confidence in him.

Foxtrol

ScissorPaperRock wrote: »

FFS

How the hell can we go from having too many wingers to choose from to being down to our 5th and 6th choice wingers?

If Fitz goes well in training I'd be happy to see him come into the starting side with McFadden. Henshaw also deserves consideration, but I wouldn't have huge confidence in him.

How many times has he played on the wing, weren’t most of his games last season full back and this season centre? Think he’ll only deserve consideration on the wing if Ferg, DK, Trimble and Fitzgerald all also get injured before the weekend.

Fireball07

Foxtrol wrote: »

How many times has he played on the wing, weren’t most of his games last season full back and this season centre? Think he’ll only deserve consideration on the wing if Ferg, DK, Trimble and Fitzgerald all also get injured before the weekend.

Don't think he's ever played there?? Don't think he's an option on the wing, he's there as full-back/13 cover.

19543261

god i miss ferris so much

ScissorPaperRock

Foxtrol wrote: »

How many times has he played on the wing, weren’t most of his games last season full back and this season centre? Think he’ll only deserve consideration on the wing if Ferg, DK, Trimble and Fitzgerald all also get injured before the weekend.

My bad, I thought he had some experience on the wing as well.

Howard Juneau

Surely with Bowe & Earls out, Trimble & Luke have to be the obvious choices to step in. Trimble would be my choice, good player, and his defensive play could be very important against the Aussies

molloyjh

Howard Juneau wrote: »

Surely with Bowe & Earls out, Trimble & Luke have to be the obvious choices to step in. Trimble would be my choice, good player, and his defensive play could be very important against the Aussies

Joe doesn't do obvious.


Seriously though there seems to have been a huge amount of work done in camp and it would be hard for someone to come in cold into that and try to catch up. Fitz might have an easier time of it given his past experience with Scmidt, but both would probably find themselves on the back foot. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if Fitz made the 23.

awec

One post deleted, just a reminder to keep things tasteful.

mfceiling

Just changed my screensaver picture to that one of ferris/genia.

In your face wife and kids!!